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[Rocky]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and thought about sharing my LL journey here in Ukraine.

I have been talking and writing with Dr. Jamal Abu Nemer for a while and we agreed about doing a LL on my femur. So I booked a ticket and flew this week to Kiev according to the plan.

At the airport Dr. Jamal was waiting and picked me up. He took me to a clinic where I did a blood test and a scanning of my bones. After the scanning, Dr. Jamal went inside the room with another doctor, where he examined my X-Rays and measured my bones. When he came out, I was informed that everything looks well. Although my bones have a narrow passage, which could be a challenge during the operation, but it shouldn't be a big deal according to Dr. Jamal.

Later on Dr. Jamal invited me to join him for a breakfast at a restaurant, where we spent few hours chatting and discussing different things including the LL procedure and my expectations, etc.

While we were waiting for the blood test results, he took me for a quick sightseeing in Kiev which was a very nice experience. Dr. Jamal called the clinic and got a confirmation that the blood test is positive.

While we were hanging out, he was talking on the phone with the property broker, whom was planning my apartment with the owner. At the end we drove to the apartment to view it.

The apartment is a one bed with a spaces living room & kitchen and two fully renovated bathrooms.

At the end we signed the contract with the owner and paid him for 3 months in advance. I had a good chat with the owner, and he helped me to find a nearby supermarket where I bought some food to fill the fridge for the coming days.

I have been waiting in the apartment for the operation date to be confirmed, which happened today. Dr. Jamal told me that we will start operating one of the legs tomorrow. I was told to have a breakfast early in the morning around 7:30 am, but should stop eating or drinking around 8 am.

So the actual journey will begin tomorrow morning 

[Rocky]

By the way. Here are some pictures of the apartment.

https://imgur.com/a/WAjKWva

[KiloKAHN]

Been a while since we've had a Dr Jamal experience. Hope your journey goes well. Is he lengthening with the bliskunov nail?

[Rocky]

Thank you very much. I am waiting patiently and hoping for the best.

Yes. This is the one we will be using in my case.

He mentioned also a new nail called "Jamal Nail". But I will stick to the traditional nail.

What I found interesting during our discussion is that he uses stem cells from the bone that he cuts during the operation. Then he grows the stem cells in a laboratory and inject it back to the bone at the lengthening ending. He has done it for couple of patients and according to him, they recovered much faster (50% faster).

[lucindaris]

What is the overall cost for surgery with Dr. Jamal?

[Rocky]

Hi lucindaris

The package is:

Femur: 47.700 dollars

or

Tibia: 48.800 dollars

It includes 1 month physiotherapy, leg massage, medicals and any complication treatments or surgeries if needed

Extras:

1. Appartment (He helped me to find one for 500 dollars per month)
2. Helper for 20 Euro per day (She will be 24/7 with you to cook, clean, wash, buy grocery etc.)
3. Your daily food
4. Stem cell treatment for faster recovery

[Rocky]

Yesterday I made another blood test after fasting before the operation. Everything was fine.

Then they measured my height. I have always thought I was 171.5 cm but they told me that I am 170.5 cm. Anyway, not that big deal.

We went to another hospital to perform the operation. I was led to the operation room and they gave me an injection in my lower back. After that I couldn't feel my legs at all. The Anesthesia doctor gives you the option to stay awake during the operation or totally go to sleep. After a while when they began, I decided to go totally to sleep.

The next thing I saw was my leg with some bandages in my room at he hospital. It is a 2 beds room. on the other bed I had my helper who was servicing me. Today she went out to buy grocery and cooked for me.

After just 24 hours from the operation, I am able to walk alone back and forth on full body weight. Ofcourse with the help of the supporting device which you can see in the picture.


https://imgur.com/a/bMAoYPW


But my leg feels stiff. What used to be trivial for me, takes ages to perform now  I walk VERY VERY slowly.


Dr. Jamal visited me twice today. Once in the morning and again in the evening. His wife came along and changed the bandages. She is a nurse and actually was presented during my operation.

I am getting pain killer injections every 5 hours by the nurses...

So far so good. Dr. Jamal looked at my condition and told me that we can actually leave the hospital tomorrow and go back to the apartment.

This seems to be a long journey...

I will be seeking advice along the way

[lucindaris]

Thanks for the answer. GL with your LL journey.

[Rocky]

You are most welcome lucindaris 

[Android]

Dr. Jamal sounds like a nice guy. Sounds like everything's going good so far.

20 euro per day for a helper that also cooks, sounds great.

Best of luck!

[Rocky]

Hi Android and thank you

So far so good. My walking got better today. But still supporting my self mostly on the untouched leg (left leg).

Yeah he is. Very social in nature. When he enters the hospital he talks and jokes with everyone.

For the helper and nurses in general. No one can speak English here. So if you don't know Russian or Ukrainian, you have a challenge.

Tip: I have downloaded an app called "VoiceTranslator". You just speak and it converts the voice to the selected language. It translates voices both ways. When the nurses or the helper want to say something I stick the mobile close to their mouth to get an English translation. ... This app was all worth it 

[helloworld]

You chose a nice time to be Kiev as the weather is getting warmer.
I was there last week and will come back next week.
However, I do not understand why you would want to do the procedure at that Clinic if you could get one of the best doctors in Barcelona for the same price.

[Rocky]

Hi helloworld

Yeah the weather is fantastic here. I left the hospital today with my shorts on. Nice feeling

So far it is going really well. Right leg is operated and I am walking slowly using a supporter on full body weight. We will begin with the left leg in about a week.

I guess Dr. Jamal is one of those hidden secrets in the LL arena. I have a feeling that he is a very skilled doctor with no flashy marketing around him.

But only time will tell if I did the right move. So far so good. Pray for me

[Body Builder]

48k dollars for Bliskunov in Kiev (where everything is extremely cheap and the average salary per month us less than 250 dollars) are extremely much money.
You could even use precise 2 in Italy for almost the same money.

But anyway, I hope everything go well for you.
Bliskunov is fully weight bearing? The lengthening is done with clicks I guess like albizzia nails, right?
What is your lengthening target?

Keep strong!

[Life]

You chose a nice time to be Kiev as the weather is getting warmer.
I was there last week and will come back next week.
However, I do not understand why you would want to do the procedure at that Clinic if you could get one of the best doctors in Barcelona for the same price.

Helloworld you're being hijacky and your propaganda is disgusting. You've been doing this for years in Guichet and Rozbruch and other patients diaries and the LL community has asked you to be banned. Mods should consider this. We have very few Jamal diaries and you shouldn't be doing your disgusting propaganda here

Please stop advertising for Dr. Monegal in this thread. Thank you!

funny how its only monegal's patients who praise him that much in an almost childish fashion... This and the fact there isnt a single monegal's diary on old forum adds alot of suspition.... I will not even talk about cooper's case and MM's hiding the fact she was not ok for months...

Tell monegal to stop sending you guys for marketing... Its just sad

How much are you getting paid to advertise like that?

Very few Dr Rozbruch diaries exist, i'd appreciate if you don't clutter this forum with shameless plugs for others. Thanks

I am sorry but this plug is shameless. Are you a staff member or the doctor himself? It seems this type of self promotion has been going on for a long time with this doctor: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150409443&pagenumber=4 ...scroll down and you can see that the Dr himself was posting and luring. And why would anyone not go to Rozburch in US for only $35k more?! If you are a REAL patient as you say, why do you feel the need to spam this site with promotions? Do you get paid or a discount, because I have seen similar post by you on other diaries.

~TT

Fkin communist propaganda is like a lullaby comparing to this crap

Haha!  This definitely sounds like a Monegal sponsored ad

Look, whoever you are, I'm most happy that you've completed your lengthening unscathed and successfully.

But please, if you would like to promote Monegal's business by stating that for all 8 of you, "clicking was totally painless" - PLEASE do it somewhere else because you are insulting our intelligence with your transparent motives.  It is people like yourselves who mislead others into thinking that this procedure is easy and painfree.

It is damned disrespectful to use this very thread to promote another doctor's practice.  It is never a GUICHET vs MONEGAL battle here, and I don't see other insecure doctors like PALEY sending their minions over to promote their dwindling businesses while bashing other doctors.

I'm sorry for you that your recovery has not been as fast as you hoped for, and I'm sure since Monegal has a perfect record of success, not being able to run faster than Usain Bolt after leg lengthening must be contrued as a complication. 

In any case, when you pass GO, don't forget to collect $200 from Monegal.

I could not agree more. The Monegal situation has become worse as of late and is beginning to bring the experience here down to the point where I imagine people will no longer wish to post as to avoid being involved in/there thread devolving into the petulant, tedious and never ending discussion about Monegal. It has certainly dissuaded me from participating as it's patently obvious the direction threads will inevitably take.

The users helloworld and notimportant ought to both be given a warning for A) Forceful and zealous advertisement and recommendations of a doctor where they aren't necessary or relevant whenever possible and B) Endlessly dragging any discussion down, regardless of what it is to bashing Monegal  respectively and C) Engaging in arguments between one another with endless abusive and petty comments when one posts a comment about Monegal.

Edit - I have just seen that Penguinn has told both users that warnings will be issued upon the next violation. Thank you Penguinn for attempting to resolve the issue, it is appreciated.

From both sides, their post should be deleted if this is not a mongeal thread. This is by far the worst hijacking of a thread that I have seen considering that unicorn is sharing with us the horrible experience that she is growing through. What is next taking over Chris thread as well?

It's tiring that every single thread at the moment is eventually being derailed into the exact same discussion, whether positive - through the almost advertisement like recommendations from helloworld on different doctors patient diaries such as the one and only Rozbruch diary we have or negative - from notimportant endlessly criticizing and spamming the same comments in any thread he can about Doctor Alex Monegal and I'm not sure who is damaging his reputation more.

It's tiresome and it's slowly but surely irritating everyone, driving users away and dragging the forum down. Please stop.

[Rocky]

Hi Body Builder

For the price. It is what it is. Nothing to do about it.

Regarding the nails topic. It is a very interesting topic you are bringing up because it was occupying my mind for several months.

I have read alot about Albizzia, Precise II and Bilskunov.

I am no expert, but what I understood is that the Bilsknuov nail is closer to natural healing in a natural way than Albizzia, because with Albizzia you need to do rotation on the bone itself. They cut the bone in the middle and you rotate the bone. As far as I read, cutting the bone in the middle is not recommended among bones professionals. I also understood that it hurts the patient during the clicking.

With the Bilskunov nail they cut the upper part of the bone which is richer in vessels than the middle of the bone. As I read it is preferred by professional bone doctors to work on the ends of the bone and not the middle. The upper bone will be fixed and not rotated like in Albizzia. For the rotation, yes you need to click like in Albizzia. But the difference is you rotate the whole leg and not the bone itself, which shouldn't give any pain during clicking.

One of the things that triggered me regarding the Russian school is Bilsknov was the first to invent the internal lengthening and Dr. Jamal was schooled by him. So he comes from the same Russian internal limb lengthening philosophy.

Regarding Precise II. I am hearing good things about it, and famous doctors like Dr. Paley uses it. It sounds like a very good option. But you can't do full weight bearing and you can lengthen up to 8 cm as a max.

With Bilskunov nail you can lengthen the bone up to 18 cm (not that it is recommended) with full weight bearing and you can also do reverse lengthening if the you regret lengthening too much or wish to have the bone shorter during the treatment due to unbearable muscles pains etc. By reverse lengthening the muscles will be relieved if you exceed your limits too much. As I understand neither Alibizzia or Precise II can do this reverse lengthening.

Again, I am no expert but I have been reading about the different nails before I decided to go with the "old-school Russian path"

What I also found interesting talking to Dr. Jamal was the Stem Cell treatment that he can do at the end of the LL. As I understood it will shorten your recovery time by half.

Dr. Jamal took some stem cells from my right leg and told me that he will grow them in the laboratory in case I decided to go with this treatment. It is an option, but I am strongly considering it

[Rocky]

Just a quick update friends

This morning I checked out of the hospital. Dr. Jamal and his wife drove my helper and myself back to the apartment. I was transported up to the apartment by the wheelchair.

An hour later, Dr. Jamal came back with a supporting device so I can walk freely here and some medicine and muscles creams. He instructed me to take 2 tablets every 12 hours and put the muscles cream on my leg muscle 3 times a day. He recommended me to walk from time to time to keep the muscles lean. I am not a big fan of the wheelchair, so I will stick to the supporting device.

The helper is educated to give injections. So he instructed her to give me a pain relief injection every 5 hours. I was told that the injection time will be increased later to 7 hours and so on, till we cut it totally. I just got my injection at 8 pm and will get another one at 1 am.

Here are some photos:

https://imgur.com/a/fBY5MFd

The helper is preparing food in the kitchen now and I am lying down in the bedroom. I am standing up every now and then to walk around in the apartment so I can keep my muscles active.

I need to adopt to this lifestyle for the next 3 months. I have whatsapped my kids an hour ago and showed them my leg, and I'm just subscribing to Netflex to kill the time

If you have any recommendations for Netflex, please let me know

Pray for me

[Rocky]

My helper is managing my medicine and injection times. She wakes me up at night for the injection time etc. It is a big relief.

I asked her to provide me the invoices for the food she bought for the whole week. She bought some light food & groceries during the week etc.

I did the math to dollars. 17 dollars for the whole week.

She asked me to write her my menu list for the week. I am thinking about including fish meals twice a week & chicken/meat the rest of the week days. Something that is rich in protein. But I am not sure what to write to her

[Android]

FYI, Precice can reverse its lengthening direction as well. You are correct that Albizzia (and Fitbone) cannot.

Didn't realize you have kids, there are a handful of parents on this forum doing LL. Just another example that family life won't stop people from wanting this surgery! And that's a good thing, CLL should be done for ourselves and not for others.

Have you seen Breaking Bad? Five very good seasons and it's on Netflix.

$17 for a week's worth of food, sounds great. Here's a guide for nutrition information. Maybe you can tell her what types of ingredients you should eat and come up with meals together.

[Rocky]

Thanks Android

Very informative and definitely useful.

Regarding LL and nutrition, I am still reading and learning. Its an ocean.

Oh yeah, I have 4 lovely children. I'm a family oriented man who is devoted for his family. Just after the operation, I called my little one by skype and read her night story while I was half dizzy.

And you are right, I do LL for myself and not for others. My wife and I are almost equally in height but it never bothered her. But I don't think she would mind if we were equally in height in the future while she is wearing her high heels

I am new to Netflex. My teenage kid advised me to subscribe to it to kill the time. Let me check "Breaking Bad".

Thanks for the advice Android 

[Rocky]

Sorry there was misunderstanding from my side regarding the helper's price. The helper is 20 US dollars per day and not Euros.

[Rocky]

Day 4 Update:

Nothing really earthshaking.

Dr. Jamal came by today with some water resistance wound plasters. He took all the old plasters off and put the new water proof plasters on. He told me that I can easily go to shower now.

When he left I had a 10 minutes shower under the warm water. That gave me alot of energy. I massaged my leg with the water. It felt really refreshing.

So right now, I am walking quicker inside the apartment. My muscles are getting stronger. I do basically everything by myself without help.

Even when the helper wants to pick up my glass or trash, I prefer to walk to the kitchen by myself to do it. I want to keep my right leg muscles as much lean and strong as possible, before we begin with the left leg.

[Body Builder]

Hi Body Builder

For the price. It is what it is. Nothing to do about it.

Regarding the nails topic. It is a very interesting topic you are bringing up because it was occupying my mind for several months.

I have read alot about Albizzia, Precise II and Bilskunov.

I am no expert, but what I understood is that the Bilsknuov nail is closer to natural healing in a natural way than Albizzia, because with Albizzia you need to do rotation on the bone itself. They cut the bone in the middle and you rotate the bone. As far as I read, cutting the bone in the middle is not recommended among bones professionals. I also understood that it hurts the patient during the clicking.

With the Bilskunov nail they cut the upper part of the bone which is richer in vessels than the middle of the bone. As I read it is preferred by professional bone doctors to work on the ends of the bone and not the middle. The upper bone will be fixed and not rotated like in Albizzia. For the rotation, yes you need to click like in Albizzia. But the difference is you rotate the whole leg and not the bone itself, which shouldn't give any pain during clicking.

One of the things that triggered me regarding the Russian school is Bilsknov was the first to invent the internal lengthening and Dr. Jamal was schooled by him. So he comes from the same Russian internal limb lengthening philosophy.

Regarding Precise II. I am hearing good things about it, and famous doctors like Dr. Paley uses it. It sounds like a very good option. But you can't do full weight bearing and you can lengthen up to 8 cm as a max.

With Bilskunov nail you can lengthen the bone up to 18 cm (not that it is recommended) with full weight bearing and you can also do reverse lengthening if the you regret lengthening too much or wish to have the bone shorter during the treatment due to unbearable muscles pains etc. By reverse lengthening the muscles will be relieved if you exceed your limits too much. As I understand neither Alibizzia or Precise II can do this reverse lengthening.

Again, I am no expert but I have been reading about the different nails before I decided to go with the "old-school Russian path"

What I also found interesting talking to Dr. Jamal was the Stem Cell treatment that he can do at the end of the LL. As I understood it will shorten your recovery time by half.

Dr. Jamal took some stem cells from my right leg and told me that he will grow them in the laboratory in case I decided to go with this treatment. It is an option, but I am strongly considering it

Precise can do reverse lemgthening. And yes it was not fully weight bearing but its last generation (stryde) is.
And of course it has exceptional precision and easy magnetic lengthening.

So it is easily and by far the best nail out there. But the most expensive too.
However, Bliskunov seems superior to the obsolete albizzia crap that Guichet uses and better than fitbone in terms of reliability and weight bearing capabilities but still the money are too much for an old nail in Kiev.
But I hope that Nemer proves capable and anything goes well for you.

Keep strong!

[Life]

I wish you the best too. You deserve a good experience man.

[Rocky]

Hello Body Builder

Thank you for the nice wishes.

Yeah, again Precise II is a great nail. It has its strength and weaknesses. I have no idea about the new version of Precise nail, so I can't comment much about something that I don't know. It is most likely out of my budget and I would probably be able to cover both leg segments for the price of that new nail.


Anyhow, I would like to ask you something if you don't mind. You keep mentioning your concern about the cost since it is in Kiev.

Taking into consideration the full amount of treatment (the full package):

1) Internal nail for femur with painless clicking incl. all X Rays, medicines, etc.
2) 8+ cm in length
3) Full weight bearing after 12 hours of operation
4) 3 months apartment expenses incl. food & Helper 24/7 for 1 month then twice a week for 2 months (ca. 1500 dollars for 3 months in total)
5) 1 month physio therapy & Massage which can be extended if needed
6) Stem Cell treatment for shorter recovery
7) All complication treatments or surgeries are included
8 ) Fewer scars than most treatments out there
9) Doctor checking your condition twice a day

Total cost will be less than 50k dollars.

If you scan the market as of today, where would you get a better alternative economically wise for the same service?

[Rocky]

Hello life

Thank you very much for the good wishes.  Anyone who takes this route deserves the best of luck.
I sincerely wish everyone in here good health and hopefully all your dreams will become true.

[Rocky]

Day 5 Update:

I am walking with normal moderate speed using the supporting device now (I was told it is called walker). When I first used the walker I had hard time lifting my right leg. As of today I can lift my right leg up to 90 degrees while I am standing on the left leg.

Dr. Jamal came with his wife today and changed the water proof plasters with new ones. He checked my condition and asked the helper to reduce the pain killer injections to twice a day instead of 5 hours frequency. So one injection in the morning and one in the evening. He feels that my body doesn't really need it that much anymore. So he will wait for 2 more days and might switch to lighter pain killer pills instead if my body is in pain.

I have no pain at all. Maybe because of the pain killer injections I have been taking lately. Lets see how it will go, once we reduce the frequency of the injections.

I have just a bit of stiffness when I wake up from bed in the morning. When I start walking to the bathroom and kitchen, the muscles become leaner very quickly.

Nothing really new. Just took another shower for refreshment and will settle down and watch Netflex

[Body Builder]

Hello Body Builder

Thank you for the nice wishes.

Yeah, again Precise II is a great nail. It has its strength and weaknesses. I have no idea about the new version of Precise nail, so I can't comment much about something that I don't know. It is most likely out of my budget and I would probably be able to cover both leg segments for the price of that new nail.


Anyhow, I would like to ask you something if you don't mind. You keep mentioning your concern about the cost since it is in Kiev.

Taking into consideration the full amount of treatment (the full package):

1) Internal nail for femur with painless clicking incl. all X Rays, medicines, etc.
2) 8+ cm in length
3) Full weight bearing after 12 hours of operation
4) 3 months apartment expenses incl. food & Helper 24/7 for 1 month then twice a week for 2 months (ca. 1500 dollars for 3 months in total)
5) 1 month physio therapy & Massage which can be extended if needed
6) Stem Cell treatment for shorter recovery
7) All complication treatments or surgeries are included
8 ) Fewer scars than most treatments out there
9) Doctor checking your condition twice a day

Total cost will be less than 50k dollars.

If you scan the market as of today, where would you get a better alternative economically wise for the same service?

For an internal nail almost nowhere but with a little more money (5-7k dollars about) you could have the same in Italy with precise 2 which is far more expensive than bliskunov or any other so old nail.

I think that the money for a so cheap country and an old nail are too much and I cant compare them with EU or america where prices in everything (salaries etc) are much much more and of course up to date nails like precise which are expensive too.

For instance, 40.000 euros for precise 2 on india is not a good price compared to 50.000 for the same thing in Italy.
Thats my opinion.
But the most important is to have a good result, nothing else matters more.

[fivetenneeded2016]

Hey Rocky, when do you start lengthening? Also your nail is similar to albizzia(as in clicking), correct?

[Rocky]

Hi Body Builder

I respect your opinion.

Regardless the country, I look at the service I'm getting, my budget constrains but most importantly a good result.

What you mentioned at the end is the most important part. A good result is priceless.

Wish me luck buddy

[Rocky]

Hi fivetenneeded2016

I already started lengthening from day 1. What Dr. Jamal did, he separated the bones with a small distance and he let me walk freely for a week before we start the formal clicking. While I was using the Walker, I had to get used to it, so in few times I actually twisted my foot in a certain way (by accident) so I did actually a click.

18 clicks gives 1 mm.

I probably did 5-6 accident clicks till I got used to the Walker during this week. When I asked Dr. Jamal, he said that he is expecting that.

So what will happen next, he will scan my leg next week to see the actual length after those accident clicks and begin the "planned clicking". We will aim for 18 clicks per day.

The week after we will operate my left leg and do the same procedure. So my Right leg will be a bit taller than my left leg. Once we agree to stop lengthening the right leg, Dr. Jamal will lock the clicker on the right leg and let the left leg go to the same distance.

During scanning on the first day, we found out that one of my legs is 3 mm longer than the other. He also takes this into account during the lengthening.

I hope this answered your question.

Did you already start your lengthening or is it too early?