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[Knik]

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taille_(anthropom%C3%A9trie)
Do you want another proof to say that official numbers are absolute unbelievable ? 182 for male and 169 for female in Greece (for 16 yo people). That make them as tall as Dutch people in average and taller than Scandinavian and German.


it's the french one, the english page put them at 178


Allemagne    179,9 cm    165,9 cm    18 ans (2014)
182,3 cm    173,0 cm    adultes
Australie    179,2 cm    165,9 cm    18 ans (2014)
Canada    178,1 cm    163.9 cm    18 ans (2014)
177 cm    168 cm    
Belgique    181,7 cm    165,5 cm    18 ans (2014)
Croatie    180,8 cm    165,6 cm    18 ans (2014)
Danemark    181,4 cm    167,2 cm    18 ans (2014)
Espagne    180,9 cm    166,7 cm    16 ans (2017)
États-Unis    176,5 cm    167,6 cm    adultes
177,1 cm    163,5 cm    18 ans (2014)
France    179,7 cm    164,9 cm    18 ans (2014)
180,2 cm    166,3 cm    16 ans (2017)
Finlande    179,6 cm    165,9 cm    18 ans (2014)
Grèce    182,8 cm    169,1 cm    16 ans (2017)
Italie    180,6 cm    166,5 cm    16 ans (2017)
Japon    172,6 cm    162,0 cm    adultes
Luxembourg    179,1 cm    169,6 cm    15 - 25 ans
Portugal    173,7 cm    165,0 cm    
Pays-Bas    182,5 cm    168,7 cm    18 ans (2014)
183,8 cm    172,6 cm    
184,0 cm    173,6 cm    21 ans
Monténégro    185,6 cm    174,3 cm    
Nouvelle-Zélande    177,0 cm    166,0 cm    19 - 45 ans
Norvège    179,7 cm    165,6 cm    18 ans (2014)
République tchèque    180,1 cm    168,5 cm    18 ans (2014)
Roumanie    174,7 cm    162,7 cm    18 ans (2014)
Suède    177,2 cm    166 cm    
179,7 cm    165,7 cm    18 ans (2014)
Suisse    178,4 cm    163,5 cm    18 ans (2014)
Tonga    169,4 cm    156,2 cm    15 - 16 ans
Turquie    175,0 cm    167,2 cm    
Ukraine    178,5 cm    166,3 cm    18 ans (2014)

[Body Builder]

Bs.
Maybe girls are near to that height (1.67-8) but boys for sure they are not so tall.
I know very good what is going on in Greece. Men's average is for sure less than 1.80 including young men.

I don't know who does these surveys but they are stupid and unsubstantial.

[KiloKAHN]

It seems like this is a self-reported survey as far as the heights are cconcerned. I can't read the language, is that the case?

[Knik]

Bs.
Maybe girls are near to that height (1.67-8) but boys for sure they are not so tall.
I know very good what is going on in Greece. Men's average is for sure less than 1.80 including young men.

I don't know who does these surveys but they are stupid and unsubstantial.

168 average for girls seems also very tall, especially when Norway average is 165
I visited Norway, Ireland and Czechia and I think that 179 for Norway, 179-80 for Czech Republic are pretty good listening
and for Ireland/England/France something like 175-6
the funniest is that czech republic is the poorest country in this list

[Knik]

It seems like this is a self-reported survey as far as the heights are cconcerned. I can't read the language, is that the case?

there no other informations, the english page is way better.

[google42]

the funniest is that czech republic is the poorest country in this list

That should be proof that it's mostly genetic. On a side note, anyone noticed that somolians tend to be tall too? I've noticed that a lot of Somalian men and women seem to be above average were I live. (Somalia is a poor country too btw)

[myloginacct]

I've always suspected numbers in these kind of researches are inflated, if they're all self-reported. You see an average of 170cm for certain countries in Asia when it's clearly not the case.

Likewise, 182cm for Greece seems unbelievable. Mediterraneans, in general (probably with the exception of Northern Italy), are shorter than other European groups.

[Knik]

That should be proof that it's mostly genetic. On a side note, anyone noticed that somolians tend to be tall too? I've noticed that a lot of Somalian men and women seem to be above average were I live. (Somalia is a poor country too btw)

That's right. Somalian are tall (but not as european I think) for people who knows war and famine since the 70s (the somalian situation started with Ogaden war against Ethiopia in 1977, and fall of Siad Barre regime). Also in some part of Somalia people have better living conditions (like in Somaliland).

[Knik]

I've always suspected numbers in these kind of researches are inflated, if they're all self-reported. You see an average of 170cm for certain countries in Asia when it's clearly not the case.

Likewise, 182cm for Greece seems unbelievable. Mediterraneans, in general (probably with the exception of Northern Italy), are shorter than other European groups.

I do not think that the Mediterranean forms a homogeneous ethnic group. Same for slavic people you will tell me, it's right. South slavic are not north slavic. So I don't really think that north european are much taller, probably a bit in average like 3-4 cm. In France our case is particular, because it's clear there is no ethnic homogeneity. You will see that people in north of France can looks similar than german. We can consider France as a latin country because historically we adopted latin culture, but racially is more complicated. And as you said, that the same for North of Italy because of Ostrogoths. France had Franks (but Belgian and Luxembourgish are nearer Franks, racially talking), Spain had Wisigoths, etc. And if you look at spanish, it's racially complicated too. With al Andalus a lot of spanish have berberic/arabic blood, some have rather germanic blood, etc.
So no, I don't think it's true. Or only partially.
Also if we look, I doubt that Austrian are taller than French. What is sure is that Irish and English people are not.


The 6'1 dinaric Alps average is weird too, especially when you see that in other part of Croatia for exemple average is under 5'11. But I have read a slavic forum, and someone from there told it's clearly wrong.

[myloginacct]

I do not think that the Mediterranean forms a homogeneous ethnic group. Same for slavic people you will tell me, it's right. South slavic are not north slavic. So I don't really think that north european are much taller, probably a bit in average like 3-4 cm. In France our case is particular, because it's clear there is no ethnic homogeneity. You will see that people in north of France can looks similar than german. We can consider France as a latin country because historically we adopted latin culture, but racially is more complicated. And as you said, that the same for North of Italy because of Ostrogoths. France had Franks (but Belgian and Luxembourgish are nearer Franks, racially talking), Spain had Wisigoths, etc. And if you look at spanish, it's racially complicated too. With al Andalus a lot of spanish have berberic/arabic blood, some have rather germanic blood, etc.
So no, I don't think it's true. Or only partially.
Also if we look, I doubt that Austrian are taller than French. What is sure is that Irish and English people are not.

Aren't people a bit shorter in Southern France, though?

But yes, I totally get what you are saying. Most groups in Europe are divided on arbitrary lines like languages (e.g. Slavic/Germanic) or even seas (Baltic/Mediterranean), so there's no way they are homogeneous; this can't possibly accurately represent genetics. It's just my impression that, in general, the peoples usually referred as Mediterraneans tend to be a bit shorter than those elsewhere in Europe.

However, maybe this changed in recent times. The Italian, but specially the Spanish average in your study are tall. I live in a country with many immigrants from both of these populations and they tend to not be as tall as those figures (where they're averaging closer to 180cm), but I'm not from Europe. Maybe things just look very different there now. The immigrant groups that tend to be almost invariably as tall as those I see in modern Europe tend to always be from Central/Northern Europe. I never see someone of German ancestry who's considerably shorter than the height figures I see for Europe.

[Knik]

Aren't people a bit shorter in Southern France, though?

But yes, I totally get what you are saying. Most groups in Europe are divided on arbitrary lines like languages (e.g. Slavic/Germanic) or even seas (Baltic/Mediterranean), so there's no way they are homogeneous; this can't possibly accurately represent genetics. It's just my impression that, in general, the peoples usually referred as Mediterraneans tend to be a bit shorter than those elsewhere in Europe.

However, maybe this changed in recent times. The Italian, but specially the Spanish average in your study are tall. I live in a country with many immigrants from both of these populations and they tend to not be as tall as those figures (where they're averaging closer to 180cm), but I'm not from Europe. Maybe things just look very different there now. The immigrant groups that tend to be almost invariably as tall as those I see in modern Europe tend to always be from Central/Northern Europe. I never see someone of German ancestry who's considerably shorter than the height figures I see for Europe.

Well, I don't know if south French are shorter. The fact is that there is a lot of Arabic people in South of France.
Also, don't take in considerations these listening. It's bs. Except if you really think that german women are 173 cm in average. Can I ask you where you from ? I think that most this studies are "self-reported", the most interesting is that they are for 16yo people. That mean they are far from their definitive height.
Scandinavian / north slavic are probably taller. Sometimes I hear people saying that Scandinavian people are 2 meters in average. Of course it's bs.

[myloginacct]

Well, I don't know if south French are shorter. The fact is that there is a lot of Arabic people in South of France.
Also, don't take in considerations these listening. It's bs. Except if you really think that german women are 173 cm in average. Can I ask you where you from ? I think that most this studies are "self-reported", the most interesting is that they are for 16yo people. That mean they are far from their definitive height.
Scandinavian / north slavic are probably taller. Sometimes I hear people saying that Scandinavian people are 2 meters in average. Of course it's bs.

Yeah, the listings seem bs. What I think happens is that men like 167cm+ and 177cm+ round up their height to 170cm and 180cm, respectively. It'd be nice if we could get studies where a smaller sample of people were taken, but they were actually measured by scientists.

[Knik]

Yeah, the listings seem bs. What I think happens is that men like 167cm+ and 177cm+ round up their height to 170cm and 180cm, respectively. It'd be nice if we could get studies where a smaller sample of people were taken, but they were actually measured by scientists.

Well, I don't think we need all of this just to find something near than the real average. That's not important. The better thing is not to be obsessed by that

[myloginacct]

Well, I don't think we need all of this just to find something near than the real average. That's not important. The better thing is not to be obsessed by that

You're right.

However, I think if you remove about 3cm from all of the heights in your list, they seem way more accurate. Well, except for Greece's and any other weird outlier.

[Knik]

You're right.

However, I think if you remove about 3cm from all of the heights in your list, they seem way more accurate. Well, except for Greece's and any other weird outlier.

Indeed, about 4-5 cm for some countries
Not all, because I think that 173 can be accurate for Portugal. But never went there

[Body Builder]

Greeks are for sure the taller nation in south Europe and in the last 10-15 years their average height is about the same as most of east europe countries (except Serbia where people are very tall) so the average Greek is clearly taller than the average Portuguese, Spaniard , French or Italian (especially in the south, in north Italy people are about the same as Greeks). The same happen with women which are taller than most europeans.

Still, average height for men is less than 1.80 but close to that and for women it must be about 1.67.
I don't know why Greeks are so tall compared to other people of mediterranean sea, maybe it has to do because they have some mixes with slavic people but still they are are one of the most tall nation in Europe.
Spaniards or Portuguese are way shorter

[Knik]

Greeks are for sure the taller nation in south Europe and in the last 10-15 years their average height is about the same as most of east europe countries (except Serbia where people are very tall) so the average Greek is clearly taller than the average Portuguese, Spaniard , French or Italian (especially in the south, in north Italy people are about the same as Greeks). The same happen with women which are taller than most europeans.

Still, average height for men is less than 1.80 but close to that and for women it must be about 1.67.
I don't know why Greeks are so tall compared to other people of mediterranean sea, maybe it has to do because they have some mixes with slavic people but still they are are one of the most tall nation in Europe.
Spaniards or Portuguese are way shorter

I don't know. Never went to Greece but I doubt that Greeks are taller than French in average (based on greek people I met here). And Serbian are not taller than north european countries either. We had mixes with germanic people as greek with slavic people. And the tall north italian is rather a funny myth, like Dutch. Maybe they are a bit taller (2-4cm) than south italian, but listening to internet they are like 15 cm over south italian. They feel like Nordic people just because their history. As Dutch, Flemish and German (and even scandinavian) I put them in the case : "people with too much pride" (well I say this but French are not better)
Did you visit Greece ? Because I doubt they are especially tall or taller than other south european. I never heard that Greek people are tall, or at least taller than us. According to the english wikipedia greek average is 178 cm, it's seems more accurate.
And you should not consider France only as a south european country but it's another question. Where I live we are closer to Welsh or Irish than Spanish or Italian.

[Body Builder]

I don't know. Never went to Greece but I doubt that Greeks are taller than French in average (based on greek people I met here). And Serbian are not taller than north european countries either. We had mixes with germanic people as greek with slavic people. And the tall north italian is rather a funny myth, like Dutch. Maybe they are a bit taller (2-4cm) than south italian, but listening to internet they are like 15 cm over south italian. They feel like Nordic people just because their history. As Dutch, Flemish and German (and even scandinavian) I put them in the case : "people with too much pride" (well I say this but French are not better)
Did you visit Greece ? Because I doubt they are especially tall or taller than other south european. I never heard that Greek people are tall, or at least taller than us. According to the english wikipedia greek average is 178 cm, it's seems more accurate.
And you should not consider France only as a south european country but it's another question. Where I live we are closer to Welsh or Irish than Spanish or Italian.

Greeks are taller than French. Even official statistics put Greeks at 1.783 whil French are about 1.76. And trust me, Greeks have for sure an 1.78 average, maybe even closer to 1.80.
You may never heard about Greeks because it is a small nation but for sure Greeks are the tallest mediterranean nation and taller than most of central europe's nations.

[Knik]

Greeks are taller than French. Even official statistics put Greeks at 1.783 whil French are about 1.76. And trust me, Greeks have for sure an 1.78 average, maybe even closer to 1.80.
You may never heard about Greeks because it is a small nation but for sure Greeks are the tallest mediterranean nation and taller than most of central europe's nations.

Greece is a small nation ?
Denmark is smaller, Monténégro is smaller, , Slovenia, etc
and even in Norway I doubt that average is 180 (officially it's 179 so well) and you would make me think that Greek people are taller than Norwegian ? I don't say you're wrong, but I highly doubt. And official statistics for France are now more than 176
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_average_human_height_worldwide here the average is 177 for both Greece and France ! but in France we had 4 studies : 175.6 cm, 174.1 cm, 177.0 cm, 176.2 cm. Well, there is maybe 1-2 cm of difference between our two countries. But 2 cm is Nothing, that's not visible and as that 4 studies proved it you can easily find 2-3 difference between studies in a same country.

Look at Germany : in 2007 two studies about height average. One put german average as 175, the other one as 180.

I'm just tired of reading all of this. Before going to Ireland someone told me "you will see, Irish people are very tall". Irish average is also taller than French average according to studies, but I didn't see any difference.

In 2010 a study showed Dutch average as 180 and it's self-reported, so that's far from that "giant" myth.

Did you visit Greece ?

Greek people are not tall, and you will find more slavic blood in Turkey than Greece. Average in Greece is 177 for men, 165 for women (according to the wikipedia data)

Also don't forget that French datas are not only for white people. There is other territories in America and Africa. That's not the case for Greek people.

[IwannaBeTaller]

Irish people are not tall, I've been there once but that was before my "I'm height-conscious" time. They are definitely not taller than Austrians.

[Knik]

Irish people are not tall, I've been there once but that was before my "I'm height-conscious" time. They are definitely not taller than Austrians.

But Austrians are half : germanic (mainly), slavic, hungrian, and probably a bit latin (Italian borders).
Irish and English people are not tall. They are in european average. And also there is a lot of indian/african/pakistani immigrants there

[myloginacct]

Greeks are for sure the taller nation in south Europe and in the last 10-15 years their average height is about the same as most of east europe countries (except Serbia where people are very tall) so the average Greek is clearly taller than the average Portuguese, Spaniard , French or Italian (especially in the south, in north Italy people are about the same as Greeks). The same happen with women which are taller than most europeans.

Still, average height for men is less than 1.80 but close to that and for women it must be about 1.67.
I don't know why Greeks are so tall compared to other people of mediterranean sea, maybe it has to do because they have some mixes with slavic people but still they are are one of the most tall nation in Europe.
Spaniards or Portuguese are way shorter

That was very interesting to learn. Specially when they live just next to Anatolia/Turkey, but the Turkish average is strongly lower despite the historical Greek presence there. Then again, apparently the same happens with Portugal and Spain. But I don't buy that Spanish males are on average 180cm. Certainly not in all regions of Spain.