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[normythebear]

Hello all. I arrived in Vietnam about a week ago and have been traveling the country and enjoying the last few days with full use of my legs. I've been here several times and am comfortable with this country. My surgery is scheduled for Tuesday the 28th of November - tomorrow. To be honest, I'm very afraid. I am an athletic person and would like to maintain as much of that as possible. I'm concerned that I'm essentially paying to cripple myself and that my height dysphoria will just be replaced with a funny walk and significanty reduced abilities, which would be even worse. However, I know this height dysphoria is not going to go away anytime soon, if ever. I'm doing quadrilaterals and have essentially until tomorrow to choose between LON and LATN, or even fully external for tibias. I'm thinking about going LATN, because that will give me more time to choose if I want to go fully external for tibia. The knee pain thing is a huge deal to me. However, I would like the frames off by the time fall semester starts in September. I'm okay with a rod in my femur, as it will not be going in through the knee. I realize this is a rambling post, but my surgery is tomorrow, and I have a million questions about the future. No matter what I choose and what happens, tomorrow my life changes permanently. Even if I completely chicken out, it changes. Anyone can feel free to ask me any questions they want. I'm wondering about the nail the doctor uses. It is called the SIGN nail, however I couldn't find out too much information about it except from their own website, and one post about it on this forum. I'm also uncertain as to how much I will lengthen. I realize I should have done this much sooner, but I'm going to measure my bones and everything probably tonight. I might even post pictures of my current proportions. If it doesn't already exist, we should create a post on how to accurately measure proportions and bone length, so that everyone is doing it the same way. I'm currently about 5'8", or 174 cm. I would like to increase by about 6cm per segment. However, I would like to figure out the exact amount to lengthen by so that I keep the exact same ratio between my femur and tibia that I have now. I believe that if I keep the biomechanical ratio the same, relearning how to walk will be less difficult. 6.5 cm is the max I will go on any segment, but I am fairly determined to get to 182 cm or more, or else this journey won't be worth the effort.
Sorry for the rambling post. This is essentially word vomit due to my worries.
TLDR:
Quadrilateral surgery tomorrow, starting with tibia, then femur once tibia lengthening finished.
Havent decided between LATN, LON, or external only for tibia. Femur will likely be LON.
Haven't figured out exact lengthening amount.

[Android]

Oh hey, I remember you. I finally stopped lurking just so I can add my two cents in this thread.

• Can you tell us more about your chosen clinic and doctor? Not sure if it's the same place as the other diaries, but last I heard Dr. Thuy retired, and the clinic's website has been wiped clean. Is it the same place?
• Did you consult with any other doctors?
• Pricing?
• And if you've talked to past patients, any info about their outcomes is appreciated.

[FDR101]

So you’re getting tibia surgery tomorrow and neither you or your doctor have measured your bone lengths yet or decided on which method to use yet?

Is this standard practice in Vietnam?

[normythebear]

1: The clinic I've chosen is the one you have listed. I highly doubt these are the only orthopedic surgeons in this very large city, but I think this is the only one that caters to a foreign market in this city. Dr. Thuy has retired and it is now Dr. Quynh. The doctor has moved to a more upscale hospital from the one I visited in June, though the doctor and everything else remains the same.
2: I have consulted with other doctors via email, but had not actually visited them in person. I was going to visit the doctor in Thailand, but two things prevented that: he was busy while I was there, and he was out of my price range anyway IIRC.
3: Pricing is $12,600 per segment. It's pretty much all-inclusive, but figure at least $13k to account for flight, food, hotel, prior to getting the surgery, especially if you want an in-person consultation.
4: The only patient I ever knowingly talked to is the one from the thread that everyone was dubious about. He says that he turned out alright, and I'm inclined to believe him. He was athletic prior to surgery, so I'm guessing that helped his outcome.

Regarding FDR101, I don't know how it is with Paley, et al, and how they do things doesn't affect me, because I can't afford them anyway. While I'm at it, why don't I complain about my Toyota Prius because it can't do things $100k cars can do. The point I'm trying to make is that this is my option. I want the surgery done in a time frame that I can live with, because with graduate school and medical school coming up, I am not getting rich any time soon. The time to act is now, and if the doctor wants to take x-rays the day of the surgery, so be it. Yes, maybe it is a risk, but being looked down upon both physically and metaphorically, is something I don't want in my life any more. I'm not proud of the lack of confidence I feel when females are taller than me. I'm not proud of being uncomfortably conscious of the fact that I'm the shortest among my friend group. Yes, here in Vietnam, I'm a good height. Back in the US, I'm not. And I don't want this height problem undermining my confidence until I'm 50 and I can finally afford someone who does things different. So, is this standard practice in Vietnam? I guess so, but I have months of millimeter by millimeter lengthening for both him and I to figure out what length is ideal. So, whether it happen tomorrow morning, or 5 months ago, it doesn't really matter until those frames are on my legs.

Also, I've decided on LON because that is his standard practice. And if that is the case, then I will go with what he has the absolute most experience with. This doctor is in a legit hospital, and has "normal" patients in addition to the onesies and twosies like me, so I have a feeling he isn't a fly-by-night operation, follows the Hippocratic Oath, and probably cares about the outcome of his patients. I hope. Everything so far suggests that this is the case.

[dean9191]

Have they changed the hospital?

[normythebear]

Allegedly so. I will find out tomorrow if it is in a different location than the one I visited in June.

[IwannaBeTaller]

12,600$ is a pretty good price and if you want to increase your confidence and are bothered by your height, and accept the possible physical drawbacks, so be it. It's all your choice. I personally don't believe that 174 is a horrible height for the US, albeit not a great one either, but then I'm just a little below that and I'm pretty unhappy in Europe (at some times) so I should not judge.

I hope the surgery will go well and you will have a good lengthening experience. Good luck, man!

[esdkuci]

goodluck for the operation tomorrow normythebear ,
i ve been thinking to do LL in vietnam too , but still didnt have the time yet

dont forget to post the updates!

[normythebear]

Thank you for wishing me well. Whether good or bad, I want my experience to help guide others in the future.

[dean9191]

Good luck mate. And I hope you will have a swift LL journey. Please keep posting pics and xrays, we need more true experiences from vietnam. cheers

[Mariobro]

Dont do it, 5,8 is a pretty normal height on most countries.

[The Dreamer]

Think about it a lot,Vietnam is a third world country like India and asian countries.
We don't know anything of LL in Vietnam neither have reliable diaries.And we're talking about a single segment,figure out quadrilateral
I would suggest you to save more money and choose Europe or USA

[myloginacct]

Regarding FDR101, I don't know how it is with Paley, et al, and how they do things doesn't affect me, because I can't afford them anyway. While I'm at it, why don't I complain about my Toyota Prius because it can't do things $100k cars can do. The point I'm trying to make is that this is my option. I want the surgery done in a time frame that I can live with, because with graduate school and medical school coming up, I am not getting rich any time soon. The time to act is now, and if the doctor wants to take x-rays the day of the surgery, so be it. Yes, maybe it is a risk, but being looked down upon both physically and metaphorically, is something I don't want in my life any more. I'm not proud of the lack of confidence I feel when females are taller than me. I'm not proud of being uncomfortably conscious of the fact that I'm the shortest among my friend group. Yes, here in Vietnam, I'm a good height. Back in the US, I'm not. And I don't want this height problem undermining my confidence until I'm 50 and I can finally afford someone who does things different. So, is this standard practice in Vietnam? I guess so, but I have months of millimeter by millimeter lengthening for both him and I to figure out what length is ideal. So, whether it happen tomorrow morning, or 5 months ago, it doesn't really matter until those frames are on my legs.

You may get a limping problem undermining your confidence forever after that. I hope your research was enough. Remember to do stretching exercises and to not overlength.

With all that said, I wish you the best of luck if you're really doing this. I'd personally not do LL at your height.

[Dr. Sarcastic]

normythebear-

Oh boy, here we go, you are just another future cripple to add to the pile from third world doctors who have no idea what the f*ck they are doing.

Surgery is tomorrow and you still don't know if you are doing LON/LATN/Fully External. Great! You and your doctor sound very intelligent and well prepared.

My favorite part of this ingenuous plan of yours is that you intend on doing LON on your femurs after you finish lengthening your tibia's. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! LON on femurs. Genius, you are a pure genius. Only a complete moron would ever consider LON on their femurs. Any doctor who even offers that as an option should have their medical license revoked and forced to clean up public toilets for the rest of their life.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll turn out just fine, and think about all the money you're saving by having this done in a third world sh*t hole like Vietnam. Good thing too, cause you'll sure as hell need that extra cash since you will spend the rest of your life as an unemployed cripple. Constantly in need of assistance just to go shopping, make a meal, or wipe your ass.

[myloginacct]

Actually, let me do a second post. If you need to reconsider, now it's the time. You may be in Vietnam, but you can still go back. Use the trip just to give you a perspective of how tall you actually are. You should be taller than 90% of the males there.

174cm is an absolutely fine height. I don't think you should risk your mobility at that height.

[Android]

Thanks for answering, normythebear.

Can you tell us more about your quadrilateral lengthening process? Is it bilateral tibias then femur after a few weeks, cross lengthening (e.g. left tibia and right femur then vice versa), or all segments at once? Frames on femurs sound like hell, add tibias to that and it'll be quite an experience. But hey, Overdozer did it (cross-lateral lengthening).

To those that say 5'8" is fine, I agree. It's still below average, but I'm 5'5" in the US and I'd love that to be my starting height. At his height I'd probably just get internal femurs if I felt the need (or just get by with insoles), but a lot of us are here for cosmetic reasons, and that means it's OK to want to go from "(about) average" to "above average." And to say he's taller than most in other countries... Well, what's the point if you plan to live and die in your home country?

[myloginacct]

I understand your points, Android, but he is not doing PRECICE with Paley... he is doing quadrilateral in Vietnam, down to external femurs.

But hey, Overdozer did it

Overdozer also described external femurs as hell on Earth.

He should do at most 5cm in his tibias and get out.

It also doesn't matter that his home country is the US: 174cm is not a bad height there. He's a bit shorter than some white girls and shorter than his male friends, I guess? Is that enough to risk all what quadrilateral LL in Vietnam entails?

[Android]

I understand your points, Android, but he is not doing PRECICE with Paley... he is doing quadrilateral in Vietnam, down to external femurs.

Overdozer also described external femurs as hell on Earth.

He should do at most 5cm in his tibias and get out.

It also doesn't matter that his home country is the US: 174cm is not a bad height there. He's a bit shorter than some white girls and shorter than his male friends, I guess? Is that enough to risk all what quadrilateral LL in Vietnam entails?

Starting a journal a day before surgery to me signals that the ship has sailed. He could very well be sleeping right now in a hospital bed. With this mindset, all I can do is encourage and ask as many questions as he's willing to answer.

Though yes, he could totally just get his tibias done and get out before the hellish external femurs. Not bad advice at all.

If it makes any difference, I've been PM'd for advice and dissuaded people from going to this exact clinic precisely because there's so little information about it. Hopefully this diary will shed some light to set the record straight, and I wish the best for him.

[IwannaBeTaller]

This is exactly the reason why people are hesitant to post diaries. Some of you are too harsh.

[myloginacct]

I do hope and wish the best for him. I just think of certain diaries in the forums. People need to be absolutely aware of what they're doing, what CLL is, and what are the risks. People get here from Google and don't do enough research; the information is also all spread out. Etc.

[dean9191]

these kind of replies are the reason for most LLrs not writing diaries in the forum now. Please stop judging and let him down. im sure he has done enough research. I know one LLer here who went to Sarin and completely fine but never wanted to start a diary here coz he didnt want this kind of responses. Dont ask why this forum is dying now its obvious

[Sarcastic.jr]

You have made the right choice my freind. Clearly this is a master surgeon if he believes he can do femur with externals when no 1st world doctors do. Forget those amateurs in the u.s. Im sure he is a humble doctor and that's why he is not known. Make sure to do 8 cm on the femur, you want to get all the height possible.

[Sarcastic.jr]

these kind of replies are the reason for most LLrs not writing diaries in the forum now. Please stop judging and let him down. im sure he has done enough research. I know one LLer here who went to Sarin and completely fine but never wanted to start a diary here coz he didnt want this kind of responses. Dont ask why this forum is dying now its obvious

With members like you and myloginaact growing, this should be named the retarted forum.

[WarRose]

He do LON femurs by monarail method not external only

[Sarcastic.jr]

Give yourself a badge for joining the retard club. Your contribution for this honor is for thinking that small monorail frames would make a difference. How about you lengthen with them and share with us how good of an idea it is. I know that you're too busy wiping the drool off your face so don't worry about it.

[Body Builder]

Quadrilaterals on vietnam with lon on an 1.74 height man.
This is the most fked up LL case I ever heard.

I hope noone would consider doing quadrilateral lengthening on the same time because it is the most stupid idea and the rehabilitation will be much much longer that doing both segments at different times, and the risks of fat embolism (and death!) are really big.

Anyway, I wish you could walk normally one day because it is the best you can hope to. But it is your choice to harm so much your body and take so many risks that everyrhing that would happen is your responsibility and only.
Sensible thinking and common sense are the most important things for a successful LL and unfortunately you showed a lack of them.

[Zeo]

Surgery date is today. Good luck and Godspeed. Keep us updated when you get out.

[dawdawd]

We walked him into the operating theater. At the moment he's most likely wide awake in the ICU where you don't typically get any Wi-Fi signal. Will go see him tomorrow after he gets sent back to his room.

[Thatdude950]

Go help your friend! Beg him to re-consider!!

[Sarcastic.jr]

He'd be lucky not to get fat embolism for his stupid decision. His best possibility is that he ends up crippled. Natural selection at its finest.

[Zeo]

The surgery is already over with if he was sent to the operating room/theater

Not the best decision to do quadrilateral LL in Vietnam of course. But at this point there is no point in trying to reverse his decision. It's done. The best thing we can do is try to convince him to lengthen safely and a moderate amount.

Sarcastic Jr/Dr. Sarcastic please fck off. It's sad how pathetic your life is that you decide to just to shiit talk on an LL forum, I feel sorry for you honestly, not talking about this thread in particular just your general posts.