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Author Topic: LON in Vietnam  (Read 38432 times)

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normythebear

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2017, 02:55:28 AM »

Last night was the first time I slept all the way through. It was glorious. I woke up with absolutely no pain in my legs. However, this morning they took out my epidural and preparing to remove the Cather later today. I’m not looking forward to that, as I kind of liked having it. The thought of getting out of bed to use the toilet freighters me because I don’t want to have the pain come back. Things are good now, but I don’t want the recurrence of pain. I’m also concerned about pain coming back once the effects of the now removed epidural wear off. All my responses I’m typing from a phone, so they aren’t going to be as well organized or as detailed as they would from a computer. At 1 pm local time will be 72 hours from the initial surgery. I’ve also determined for sure that I am not going to do femurs with external. Maybe in the future if I can afford internals, but not now, and I hope I’m satisfied with the height and athletic performance I will have.
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esdkuci

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #63 on: December 01, 2017, 05:09:25 AM »

thank god everything is allright ,
normy , is it still painless till now?
and did someone accompany you on this operation?
and im curious about the removal of catether , how to go to toilet after that?
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normythebear

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #64 on: December 01, 2017, 11:55:54 AM »

View from my room immediately prior to surgery:

Hospital lobby:

ICU/Recovery Room
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normythebear

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #65 on: December 01, 2017, 12:48:00 PM »

thank god everything is allright ,
normy , is it still painless till now?
and did someone accompany you on this operation?
and im curious about the removal of catether , how to go to toilet after that?

I haven't had the catheter removal yet. They placed a valve on it, so that it can open and closed, allowing my bladder to fill again and get it readjusted to the sensation of fullness. They will likely remove it tomorrow. I'm not looking forward to having to contort by body just to pee. It is still mostly painless. The epidural has been out for about 12 hours now and i still have very little pain. Thao comes by to the hospital multiple times per day to check on me and we talk about a wide range of subjects. The Institute (where I will do the majority of lengthening) is about 500 meters down the road from the hospital I am currently in.
Though most wouldn't know this, I've said in a previous post that the Vietnam hospital I had visited during the summer was the quality of central Europe, which i was comfortable with. Recently, they've started doing the surgeries in this hospital, which is closer to The Institute. I can say with confidence this exceeds central European quality. Though it may not show in the photographs, the equipment is all made in either Europe or North America. The medicine I've been receiving has been either GlaxoSmithKlein or Novartis. I pay attention to this because I'm studying to be a doctor and have spent a lot of time studying in hospitals around the world. The staff is attentive. However, none of this matters without a good doctor.

There were multiple doctors in the Operating Room. It was modern, and I pay attention to details like this, with LED surgical lamps. I remember being impressed with that as well as the other equipment in the room. There was an anesthesiologist, I'm guessing assistant surgeon that spoke English and asked me to verify that I want this surgery prior to going in the OR, Dr.Quynh (the lead orthopedic surgeon), and about a half dozen nurses. They all went to work quickly and efficiently. There was no standing around like they didn't know what to do. They all had a task and did it well until I passed out, thinking to myself "what am I doing?! What am I doing?!" That was about 1PM on 28 November.

I woke up oddly optimistic in the ICU. Maybe it was the drugs, or excitement that I went through something so major. It was maybe around 9 pm. Since my knees were bent when they lost sensation due to the epidural, I guess my brain thought they were still bent. It wasn't until the epidural was taken out today that I fully regained sensation of my leg placement. In the ICU, wheneve I asked for pain medication, they gave me pain medication. It was relatively simple to communicate because the nurses used Google Translate on their phone, and conveniently, one of the patients under watch spoke English fluently. About 12 hours later I was brought from the ICU to my "normal" hospital room. That night wasn't that bad, though occasionally I would wake up from pain. However, the second night, even with an epidural and IV and painkiller shot, I was in terrible pain. I was regretting the day I was born and everything. The nurses and my helper Mrs. Linh tried to help me through it. It may sound odd, but there was so much pain I couldn't even cry. I couldn't distract myself with Netflix. All I could do is lay down and writhe. I didn't sleep that night, and it was the most pain I've ever been in.

By the daytime, it was okay. Thao visited me again, which he does often. My helper is by my side 24 hours per day. That night I slept just fine, with almost no pain, and relatively little pain medication. I woke up to zero pain, and the staff doctor checking on my progress. I thought it was due to the epidural that I had no pain, so I was almost begging for them not to remove it, but the doctor said that it can lead to infection, and wanted to avoid dependency. I was concerned that my pain level was about to increase greatly. A few hours later, feeling to my legs started to come back, but oddly, not a ton of pain. Dr.Quynh has visited me daily, but I'm guessing that I'm not his only patient he visits, and he spends a lot of time in the OR. I guess that brings me up to now. My surgery was about 80 hours ago. I haven't posted any photos of my legs because I am afraid to look at them. Everyone says they look great, but I'm not yet fully comfortable with the thought of metal rods sticking out of my bones. I havent looked at them, and I haven't taken photos. I asked Thao to take some photos, and I'll look at them at somr later time. Even the sensation of the blanket moving against the frame is odd. Not painful, just odd. So, it will take me awhile to post photos of my frames.

Side note: Dr.Quynh performs multiple surgeries per day, on many limb discrepancies, as well as various other orthopedic procedures, so this isn't his main source of income. At least I don't think so. I haven't asked him about his finances. He is not a fly-by-night operation working out of a dingy garage, but rather in a modern hospital that probably doesn't hire quacks. He corrects everything orthopedic from congenital defects in children, to hip replacements in the elderly. He is Vietnamese, so it is not like he is an exiled Chinese doctor operating without license in Vietnam. I don't know what more to say, my experience so far has been good. However, that doesn't mean the outcome will be good, because there is the whole element of luck, but so far I'm confident that, excluding luck, I've backed the right horse.
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FDR101

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2017, 02:00:41 PM »

I am not going to do femurs with external. Maybe in the future if I can afford internals, but not now, and I hope I’m satisfied with the height and athletic performance I will have.

Good decision.

I wish you good luck with your journey and will read your updates.

Remember to listen to your body and dont overdo the lengthening.
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normythebear

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #67 on: December 05, 2017, 03:18:13 AM »

Hello, it is one week post-surgery. I think I’m doing well. I got x rays yesterday so will hopefully see them soon. I’ll post much more substantial updates once I’m in the institute and have good internet I can use on my computer. Im just letting everyone know I’m alive, and if anyone is in Vietnam or would like to come here to see me/ the surgery/ the facilities, I welcome to any and all visitors. I think I will stay here for one week longer, and then move to the institute.
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Android

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #68 on: December 05, 2017, 05:23:15 AM »

Glad to hear that you're doing well, looking forward to updates soon.
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5'4" and 1/4" (163.2 cm) | United States | early 30s | Cross-lengthening with Dr. Solomin & Dr. Kulesh

dean9191

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #69 on: December 05, 2017, 06:13:24 AM »

Hi mate. How is ur pain level now?
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normythebear

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #70 on: December 05, 2017, 09:59:34 AM »

Hi, pain level is actually a bit up from day 4. I'm at day 7 now. I think it is partially from trying to move too much yesterday, and also from not having used painkillers since day 4. I actually asked for some today. The pain feels like it is at my ankles, but I'm guessing its where my lower pins go in. There is alway what feels to be muscle pain in my heels. I'm guessing it is partially from my feet starting to curl from the contraction of muscle, whereas before they would normally be straightened out most of the day from standing/sitting with feet on ground. There is pain at my knees and slightly at the tibia osteotomy site. I expected this, but I think my this day other patients were able to least bend this knees. There is too much pain when I try. I hope everything is okay. I don't suspect anything is wrong. I've attached my before X-Rays, as well as the after X-rays. Let me know if you see anything wrong that I have any power to correct. If it is something negative, consider if my doctor or I have ability to do anything about it. If not, and your goal is to make me feel like crap, please don't type it. I want to maintain a positive attitude, and so far, even with the pain, things seem to be going well. I've also attached a photo during a bandage change so you can see the pin sites, scars, pin diameter and placement, osteotomy site, etc. Also, any yellow coloring on my skin and the frames is from iodine use as an antiseptic.
Before Left

Before Right

After Left

After Right

During Bandage Change
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FDR101

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #71 on: December 05, 2017, 03:21:53 PM »

Damn that exterior device looks brutal
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normythebear

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2017, 04:02:33 PM »

Yeah. It seems the Russians tend to prefer many smaller pins rather than the two giant pins I have. I've always wondered how those seemingly tiny pins held people's body weights. I'm not concerned about pin breakage in this setup, though I feel it might be over-engineered and could have been less invasive with smaller diameter pins. I'm glad the frame is a "C" frame and not a full-circle and allows my legs to rest mostly on the bed when I lay down instead of floating uncomfortably in the air. Though, if I were to design the apparatus myself, I would have a lesser radius, just to minimize the amount of metal I'm wearing.
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Sweden

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2017, 03:38:42 AM »

Harsh pins you got there. Wish you the best of luck. 174 is not a bad starting height and doing 6cm on tibias would be a safe and smart decision. When you’re 180cm tall you’ll feel much happier, guaranteed. I was just so unlucky that I got to be 173 and went for 7cm so I got some issues from that. 6cm would be better.

As a doctor you could always do internal femurs when you’re 30+

Just think about your sitting height and wingspan. I want to do another 4cm but honestly, my sitting height won’t look good.
You could always increase it by getting obese - but no sane man does that.

Do 6cm, get back to normal health, study to become a doctor and live your life happily.
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173cm before LL with Sarin, jan -13. Now 180cm tall. Considering 5cm on femurs.

Android

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #74 on: December 14, 2017, 01:27:45 AM »

Hey normy, hope you're doing well. Any updates?
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5'4" and 1/4" (163.2 cm) | United States | early 30s | Cross-lengthening with Dr. Solomin & Dr. Kulesh

dean9191

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #75 on: December 14, 2017, 04:30:44 AM »

hope you are doing well mate. please post an update soon. im also aiming for 6
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MrHandsome

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #76 on: December 14, 2017, 05:16:01 AM »

Harsh pins you got there. Wish you the best of luck. 174 is not a bad starting height and doing 6cm on tibias would be a safe and smart decision. When you’re 180cm tall you’ll feel much happier, guaranteed. I was just so unlucky that I got to be 173 and went for 7cm so I got some issues from that. 6cm would be better.

As a doctor you could always do internal femurs when you’re 30+

Just think about your sitting height and wingspan. I want to do another 4cm but honestly, my sitting height won’t look good.
You could always increase it by getting obese - but no sane man does that.

Do 6cm, get back to normal health, study to become a doctor and live your life happily.

Could I expect to return to weightlifting with a 5cm leg lengthening possibly?
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Antonio

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #77 on: December 14, 2017, 02:42:03 PM »

Hi bro, good to hear of your progress. It's been more than a year now since your op, can you run fast now?
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dean9191

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #78 on: December 14, 2017, 03:33:41 PM »

This guy is living in the future  ;D
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Antonio

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #79 on: December 14, 2017, 05:51:07 PM »

This guy is living in the future  ;D

Sorry my bad Norm, I meant that question for Asiann123. My apologies
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dean9191

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #80 on: December 14, 2017, 11:59:39 PM »

well in that case I can help, This is Asainns reply when I ask the same question,

"Doctor Thuy had retired. When I came back I have doctor Khoi to took the nails out for me. The result is good. I believe every doctor they have there is experiences and have good skill. I have 4 friends that did with doctor Khoi and all turn out great. I'm going real good. I can sit on the ground and stand up, squat, jump, club dance,....I lift my girlfriend by my arms around the house. I was nervous about it but then nothing happen. I dont have any discomfort by doing so and she weight about 60 kg. I also do heavy lifting at the gym too. I just came back to my normal life 100% without any problems. Some people ask me about knees pain, honestly I dont have any, even climb on stair or dancin or doing heavy activity. My sister has none too. And all of my 4 friends also recovery well without it."
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Antonio

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #81 on: December 15, 2017, 12:30:05 AM »

well in that case I can help, This is Asainns reply when I ask the same question,

"Doctor Thuy had retired. When I came back I have doctor Khoi to took the nails out for me. The result is good. I believe every doctor they have there is experiences and have good skill. I have 4 friends that did with doctor Khoi and all turn out great. I'm going real good. I can sit on the ground and stand up, squat, jump, club dance,....I lift my girlfriend by my arms around the house. I was nervous about it but then nothing happen. I dont have any discomfort by doing so and she weight about 60 kg. I also do heavy lifting at the gym too. I just came back to my normal life 100% without any problems. Some people ask me about knees pain, honestly I dont have any, even climb on stair or dancin or doing heavy activity. My sister has none too. And all of my 4 friends also recovery well without it."

That is just excellent news!
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dean9191

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #82 on: December 15, 2017, 12:33:12 AM »

but this is too good to be true. maybe he had a very good recovery coz he was 18
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normythebear

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #83 on: December 15, 2017, 10:22:39 AM »

Hey, everyone. Sorry for not responding for a while. I'm on day 17. Been lengthening for about 5 days now at 1mm per day. There is still quite a bit of pain. Not the sharp stabbing pain like in the days after the surgery, but lots of aches and discomforts. I go in for another x-ray tomorrow. I haven't been responding because the pain makes it difficult to concentrate or even care about anything. However, the scars seem to be healing nicely. My knees are very stiff to bend, and when I do they ache like crazy. I don't know if the pain means I should stop bending them, or if I should bend them more often. I'm guessing this is normal, since the nail and pins seem to be placed properly based off my research, and those are the only things I can think of that would mechanically affect mobility.

I actually had another response typed up in Microsoft Word where I complained about pain, and expressed self-pity about my life and decisions. I've moved from the hospital to "The Institute", where there is longer-term care. The doctor that performed the surgery has visited me here. I'm still mostly pleased with the quality of service here. However, my inability to do anything is starting to weigh on me and make me cranky and depressed. I just watch a lot of shows on my computer because concentrating on anything is nearly impossible. I brought probably about 15kg of books that I'm not reading because I can't put any thought into anything. I was hoping for a very productive period of recuperation, but instead, I just sit here, mindlessly watching shows, and stagnating.

I might post my complaining-style responses up so people can see the mindset of someone that is going through LL. Maybe it is different for everyone, but I'm guessing the first month is tough for most people, and honestly, I'm getting kind of depressed. There is more than just physical pain going on here. You experience thoughts like "could I live with myself if I were wheelchair bound for the rest of my life?" I know there are some very inspiring wheelchair-bound people in the world, but I personally couldn't live with myself.
Would I still do LL? As of this minute, I would say "no", but ask me in a year and a half when I should hopefully be healed. However, if I were still to do LL, I would still go to Vietnam. Similarly, prior to university, I volunteered for what's considered to be a "tough" job in the military. If you were to ask me in the middle of a grueling training session how I felt about the military at that moment, I would probably express incredible regret, hate, curse my own country, and tell the civilians they weren't worth my misery. But if you ask me now, I'd tell you it was the best thing I ever did. That specific job had a good chance of killing or maiming me, as it did to several of my close friends. Similarly, this surgery has a chance of maiming me and making me worse off than before. This could be a good decision or a bad decision. I still don't know. If it gives me some confidence and makes me happier with myself, then it was worth it. Or, it could ruin me. Though I don't have the option to quit this surgery, I do have the ability to change my outlook on it and even though I'm somewhat depressed right now, I am optimistic about my future self, and I know better than to "make a decision while going uphill". I'll save my determination for whether or not I should have done this for much later with a clear mind, because right now I'm going through some tough times, and I don't trust my own emotions.
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Body Builder

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #84 on: December 15, 2017, 04:00:33 PM »

Knee stiffness is due to the external fixator you use for femurs.
And no, it is not normal to feel so stiff from so soon. Imo lengthen not more than 3-4 cm on femurs to get off the fixators from them as soon as possible as they'll cause you irreversible problems and continue lengthening on tibias up to 6cm.

And of course try to stretch as much as you can.
You risked a lot with external femur and you can't lengthen as much as you would with internals so stop soon or you really face great dangers.
Tibias won't cause you much problems if you lengthen at a slow rate and not exceed 6-6.5 cm.
But with external femurs things are much harder and riskier.
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normythebear

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #85 on: December 15, 2017, 04:07:06 PM »

I'd like to clarify that since starting this journey, I am now only doing tibias LON and no longer doing femurs at all.
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Body Builder

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #86 on: December 15, 2017, 04:51:19 PM »

I'd like to clarify that since starting this journey, I am now only doing tibias LON and no longer doing femurs at all.
Its ok then. I encountered knee stiffness only after 5 cm lengthening.
What is your distraction rate?
Try to not lengthen more than 0.66mm per day. And some days when you feel too stiff don't lengthen for a day or do only one turn.
With that way you'll let your soft tissues catch up easier with your bones. But of course take care of your callus formation because if it fast then you should be careful to avoin premature consolidation.

So lengthen as slow as your consolidation rate lets you without risking pre-consolidation and stretch as much as you can at the same time.
I believe that you can reach up to 6cm without much problems.
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myloginacct

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #87 on: December 16, 2017, 12:20:37 PM »

Hey, everyone. Sorry for not responding for a while. I'm on day 17. Been lengthening for about 5 days now at 1mm per day. There is still quite a bit of pain. Not the sharp stabbing pain like in the days after the surgery, but lots of aches and discomforts. I go in for another x-ray tomorrow. I haven't been responding because the pain makes it difficult to concentrate or even care about anything. However, the scars seem to be healing nicely. My knees are very stiff to bend, and when I do they ache like crazy. I don't know if the pain means I should stop bending them, or if I should bend them more often. I'm guessing this is normal, since the nail and pins seem to be placed properly based off my research, and those are the only things I can think of that would mechanically affect mobility.

I actually had another response typed up in Microsoft Word where I complained about pain, and expressed self-pity about my life and decisions. I've moved from the hospital to "The Institute", where there is longer-term care. The doctor that performed the surgery has visited me here. I'm still mostly pleased with the quality of service here. However, my inability to do anything is starting to weigh on me and make me cranky and depressed. I just watch a lot of shows on my computer because concentrating on anything is nearly impossible. I brought probably about 15kg of books that I'm not reading because I can't put any thought into anything. I was hoping for a very productive period of recuperation, but instead, I just sit here, mindlessly watching shows, and stagnating.

I might post my complaining-style responses up so people can see the mindset of someone that is going through LL. Maybe it is different for everyone, but I'm guessing the first month is tough for most people, and honestly, I'm getting kind of depressed. There is more than just physical pain going on here. You experience thoughts like "could I live with myself if I were wheelchair bound for the rest of my life?" I know there are some very inspiring wheelchair-bound people in the world, but I personally couldn't live with myself.
Would I still do LL? As of this minute, I would say "no", but ask me in a year and a half when I should hopefully be healed. However, if I were still to do LL, I would still go to Vietnam. Similarly, prior to university, I volunteered for what's considered to be a "tough" job in the military. If you were to ask me in the middle of a grueling training session how I felt about the military at that moment, I would probably express incredible regret, hate, curse my own country, and tell the civilians they weren't worth my misery. But if you ask me now, I'd tell you it was the best thing I ever did. That specific job had a good chance of killing or maiming me, as it did to several of my close friends. Similarly, this surgery has a chance of maiming me and making me worse off than before. This could be a good decision or a bad decision. I still don't know. If it gives me some confidence and makes me happier with myself, then it was worth it. Or, it could ruin me. Though I don't have the option to quit this surgery, I do have the ability to change my outlook on it and even though I'm somewhat depressed right now, I am optimistic about my future self, and I know better than to "make a decision while going uphill". I'll save my determination for whether or not I should have done this for much later with a clear mind, because right now I'm going through some tough times, and I don't trust my own emotions.

I'm glad you gave up on femurs.

What's your lengthening goal, at the moment?

Just remember you still have a life to go back to, and no one can tell the difference between whether you got 1cm more or not. Don't risk your real life and recovery for extra cms.

If you did 5cm, for example, and got to 179cm, you could still easily claim you're 6 feet and most women wouldn't be able to tell the difference, if that is a worry of yours. I live in a country with many men under 170cm and they all round up their height to 170cm when asked about it. I'm sure the same happens in the US and anyone around 178~180cm claims they're 6 feet.
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Body Builder

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #88 on: December 16, 2017, 01:28:01 PM »

I'm glad you gave up on femurs.

What's your lengthening goal, at the moment?

Just remember you still have a life to go back to, and no one can tell the difference between whether you got 1cm more or not. Don't risk your real life and recovery for extra cms.

If you did 5cm, for example, and got to 179cm, you could still easily claim you're 6 feet and most women wouldn't be able to tell the difference, if that is a worry of yours. I live in a country with many men under 170cm and they all round up their height to 170cm when asked about it. I'm sure the same happens in the US and anyone around 178~180cm claims they're 6 feet.
Between 1.79 and 1.83 there is a good difference.
If you don't wear insoles or elevator shoes then noone will see an 1.79 man as a 6 footer, the same way they won't see an 1.75 man as an 1.79 one etc.
You can add 1-2 cm without been noticed but not more, except you talk to a very shorter or taller person than you.
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dean9191

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #89 on: December 16, 2017, 01:54:08 PM »

body builder can you give me some advice on 166 man going for 6 cm (strictly). I tried lifting up my heels up 6cm and dont see much difference in the mirror or in a crowd. by the way im from an asain country so  if i get 172 that is a very good height(numbers wise)
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InferiorityComplex

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #90 on: December 16, 2017, 03:33:41 PM »

Nice diary! Quite certain you are making a good decision, we were talking about this diary here in Barcelona when you first posted..and they all said you were crazy lol. But I insisted on that I think you will be fine if not better than some of the other doctors. My biggest regret for not a even faster recovery (walking fked up but walking around 4 1/2 months later, 6 cm femurs) is that i didn't work on the GLUTES, they get completely fked being wheelchair ridden for 3 months lol) So please work on that, even though i feel like i walk A lot better than just some days earlier
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Body Builder

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #91 on: December 16, 2017, 04:24:48 PM »

body builder can you give me some advice on 166 man going for 6 cm (strictly). I tried lifting up my heels up 6cm and dont see much difference in the mirror or in a crowd. by the way im from an asain country so  if i get 172 that is a very good height(numbers wise)
First of all 6cm lifts does not mean 6cm actual added height.
In reality it adds you about 4cm.

6 cm added do a good change on your height but the shorter you were the less the difference will be when you are in a crown.
Personally, between 1.74 I am right now (on evening) and 1.80  I am with elevator shoes plus 2cm insoles I see a huge difference everywhere.
Before my LL though I didn't feel so much different before even with elevator shoes I was less than I am now without shoes.
So even if the added cms are the same from shoes, the difference you'll feel from 1.66 to 1.72 will be less than if you became 1.78 from 1.72.
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myloginacct

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Re: LON in Vietnam
« Reply #92 on: December 16, 2017, 11:01:42 PM »

Between 1.79 and 1.83 there is a good difference.
If you don't wear insoles or elevator shoes then noone will see an 1.79 man as a 6 footer, the same way they won't see an 1.75 man as an 1.79 one etc.
You can add 1-2 cm without been noticed but not more, except you talk to a very shorter or taller person than you.

True. I'd have to know the culture in the US. I always had the impression they used 6 feet when they really mean around 180cm (and not 183), specially because the 5'11 guys will be rounding up, so you can see why I made my post. Either way, I think only other men of similar height would notice the difference. Women tend to be really bad at estimating height and private parts' size due to how often men lie about those.
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