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[Muse]

I know many folks are considering India for Limb Lengthening, however the reality of what goes on during the process has not been disclosed properly, leaving new patients caught out by surprise.

As many are aware, Dr Sarin was infamously added and then removed from the Recommended List, leaving question marks about what really went on.  Therefore the purpose of this thread is to give everyone the truth as much as possible, without censorship.

The following is from a conversation with a ex patient about his experience at Dr Sarin's guesthouse

Q: Will you be starting a diary to detail your overall experience in India?

A:  "I might if I can summon up the motivation. The loss of motor abilities (ie paralysis), believe it or not is quite common occurrence in the guesthouse, almost everyone have it, or had it in the past. A lot have been resolved and heals, others not so lucky / still waiting.

I've heard from LL Vets here that complications happen, and to expect the unexpected.

There's a guy here with a condition similar to mine, except way worst; I should consider myself lucky compared to him lol.
Everyone, except 1 lucky bastard, has some sort of complication that they're dealing with; a lot can be resolved with time and care.
The only thing is most are not reported on old forum .

Actually, what people see on old forum  is only a small portion of what LL life is, until you actually experience it you'll know. Most patients dont write on old forum  because they lack the motivation, or too preoccupied dealing with their own condition / everyday duties to even bother. And the general casual attitude of health professions here, compared to the stricter, more serious attitude of Western health professions...

This surgery has its benefits, but also lots of risks too, just like any other surgery. Just don't be naive and think this surgery is all cake and ice cream all the time."

More to come........

[Muse]

Part 2

This will be updated everyday with a new entry.  The purpose is to give everyone an idea about the reality of Limb Lengthening and possible complications and situations that could come up. 

Q:  What do you think about the situation with Patient A (name changed for privacy)

A: Patient A's  been having lots of problems for a long time that have been glazed over by the Doc and Doc assistant / health staff for a long, long time.  It may take some time for me to describe the all, so I'll describe 2 that it seems he's been having for a long time.

Originally, when he did his initial surgery to install the frames, one of the pins was, not installed properly. And his habits during the journey may have also contributed to his problems.

Patient A was trying to lengthen too fast so he can go home faster and still get his desired height. He would take massive amounts of supplements and calcium in order to speed up the process. This, coupled with the fact that he was not flexible of physically fit before, AND after the surgery may have contributed to his complication.

There was a lot of stress placed on the pin, and also coupled with the pin not being installed properly initially, made it bend and eventually the pin became so loose from that it finally "broke off" and whenever he lengthened the pin would retract into him/bend further and not allow anymore lengthening.

He had to complain to the doctor several times (because the first few times they said he would be ok with time, just keep lengthening etc.)

When he got his second surgery, the doc replaced the pin with a new one and installed a new one. As well as added a 3rd pin for stability.  But something was obliviously not done right so he lengthened for 1 month and still nothing.

To be continued....

[Muse]

Part 2 Continued

The other complication is not for the faint of heart. Patient A scabs on his pin sites looks like an infections, but he says he feels no pain. The doc said not to worry. It looks like rotting mold that would sometime ooze out pus.

Originally, he only had it on his one pin site on his right leg (something concerning this was posted on old forum , but after some arguments, it was removed). Now there's a huge one on his left ankle.   It does not look natural. And his other scabs look white, not the usual red like other people.

His legs kind of look like they were a little "rotten." the color and texture changed. As well, there is a discrepancy between the lengths of his legs.

The MAIN reasons he (and most people) don't post this bad stuff on old forum , is because Patient A feared bad repercussion from the Health Staff / Doc. That's why he ONLY wanted to post good Information. 

He had so many problems but said he did not want to post them and only wanted to post good stuff - again, I believe at that time also,because he fear negative repurcussion, because he may have felt helpless and entrusted in the heads of other people. If he spoke out, he was afraid they would get back at him.)

The other MAIN reason People don't post on here is because they are dealing with so much or in so much pain and simply lack the motivation to do so. I fall in this category, because detailing everyone's issues or detailing / editing my journey entirely till now requires so much time and energy, and I'm already dealing with a lot.

--- This is just what I've experienced or heard from other LL patients. My overall journey may be different because the journey is not over yet.

But some areas seem to be universal:

In India, the general attitude is casual, the things just happen spontaneously. Like procrastinating until the last minute.
Indian- born and raised patients here say that in India, there is so much poverty and population that needs treatment and not resources. They say that as long as you're alive, then you're OKAY.

Conversations and treatment also seem rushed. But we require precision and careful detail and attention.
I believe people, at least where we are being treated have good intentions, but sometimes may be careless and make silly mistakes...or, not educated high enough to deal with issues.

For example, the Assistant who has been treating / looking after us aftercare does not have proper medical degree / education. And doesn't answer questions that we know the answers to, properly.

Also, according to several LL vets, complication rates are higher here versus other places; most are treatable , but it took the LL patients MUCH more time to complete the LL journey in India).

NO ONE here has completed their LL journey successfully (when going for 7.5cm in 3 months or less). There are so many patients here who have been here for 8 months, 10 months.... Recovery and lengthening takes LOTS of time.

[Muse]

Part 3

That's why when you see all these people / kids thinking they can rush all this in 3 months...and lot of these people may NOT even be physically fit. There are some guys planning to come here to play video games for the whole time...seriously?

From the experiences here, these sedentary guys may be in for a whole world of "surprises".  Sedentary guys paid for it and in the end, only served to extend the time here instead of saving time.

People who took things seriously and went slow when needed, such as Patient B suffered fewer complications. He was physically fit and flexible before the surgery, and trained well during LL, therefore he had relatively smooth time....in fact, we joke and said all the things he is facing IS NOT related to LL at all, such as getting headaches, fevers, diarrhea. Not so much LL related complications,  little Ballerina / knee bend and little pin loss.

Regarding my complications,  I asked Dr. Sarin weeks ago for tests but Dr. Sarin says there's no need. After further pushing he said in 2-3 weeks.

After that I ask Dr. Sarin again...but this time he said 6 weeks...Then rushed out. Most meetings with him are very rushed, it's not just me, everyone experiences this. I think he has too many patients and is over extending himself (LL patients, clinic patients, and surgery patients in 2 hospitals)...anyway I called him back and asked him I NEED to do these test and will happily pay.

But he says there is no use doing the test yet because he believes there is still Internal damage that we cannot see. Everyone in the end has to listen to the doc, so even if I was willing to personally rush and for it, it still not likely I would get support from doc to do so. Therefore, I have to wait further.

Other doctors I contacted thought this was very weird. But they also mentioned that I may be lucky because these conditions tend to heal on its own in a few months .  But the tests are better done to be safe then sorry, because what the docs are doing is basically making an educated guess based upon my described Sydromes...only official tests will confirm.

[Muse]

Part 4

A UK patient here went through a lot of craziness through his 10 month journey here. Listening to him regale the days of the beginning of LL to now shows so much improvement and positive changes to the Guesthouse situation. But there still needs lots of improvements. He is leaving soon (he hopes) and he wants treatment for the things that are still wrong with him in the UK because the expertise of the doctors and because treatment is free in the UK.

He was intending to do a second LL in India, but now, his mind has changed. He says that even to this day, he still has not had a PROPER answer to what is wrong with him, so he is getting frustrated, but also fighting and keeping a positive attitude. He's been here for 10+ months and dealt with unimaginable complications and pain and loss.

Even to this day he cannot lift his ankle and its basically paralyzed, its known as "foot drop." That condition developed after he had some skin issues and had chunks of flesh from his ankle removed. After seeing him I felt lucky with my situation because my situation seems a lot better / curable on its own.

As of today, almost everyone has problems now. Some had severe, but it fortunate to know that the patients who had complications, the majority of them recovered after some long time.

I was speaking with a bunch of patients and they get pissed off at old forum  site because the Infomation on their is NOT ACCURRATE to reflect the majority of patients. old forum  is a small, biased view, generally with people who are doing better and does not reflect the general statuses of the majority of the patients.

[Muse]

Part 4 Continued

1) My room mate has pin cuts / burning pains that keeps him up at night. Moving around to go to the bathroom is extremely painful and he almost fainted a few times this week from going. My roomie loss 10 mm and 14mm after lengthening 25 mm (this was 2 weeks ago).

2) my two neighbors have severe pin wounds and ankle cuts.

1 of them could not do physio today due to knee pains, the other guy had to stop lengthening for 7 days due to descrepancy of one one leg, and pain from knee to shin to ankle.

1 of them loss 10mm and 15 mm in his legs after lengthening 45 mm, so he only has 35 mm and 30 mm gained.
The other lost 20 mm on his left leg and 10 mm on his right.

What's funny is old forum  does not report the real Pin loss experienced, and makes very light of it such as one only loses 5 mm during the WHOLE journey...very inaccurate.

3) Another patient is sick with a bad fever again. His room mate had to come get fever pills because he is looking awful.

4) His room mate is doing cross lengthening. The break in his left femur is not clean and the bone is curved / crooked.

5) New guy from Australia came, he is drenched in sweat and pain.

6) Another guy is a lengthening / bow leg correction patients. His bone / frame malfunctioned. When the physio pushed back on his leg, the two points where the fracture site occurred broke apart, so it was like pushing the leg apart from the fracture site. Eventually, skin started growing in the gap from his fracture site. So imagine a tibia, then a cavity where the fracture site occurred that skin grows into.

He is super shy and felt uncomfortable asking too many times for Dr. Sarin to fix it because he didn't want to disturb Dr. Sarin, which is ridiculous. It's your legs you're dealing with and you have to live with the results for your whole life...why are you letting it get screwed up simply because you are insecure about repeatedly reminding Dr. Sarin to fix it?

Dr. Sarin is a very busy man so he can't be expected to remember everything. Apparently he does 120 surgeries a month (approx 4 a day) divided into 3 hospitals and his clinic.

7) This patient is one of the few that is doing well with little to no complications.

8-) A guy downstairs had his fibula fuse premately when he lengthened 4-5 cm, so he may have to rebreak it, or accept the height.

9) There are 3 guys waiting for their callus to form. Their frames have been removed. 1 of them did cross lengthening and 2 did Tibias. There were a lot of pain and complication for the cross lengthener, but with time it was resolved and he has begun walking on his own after 8 months here.

One of the tibia guy had a lot of complications with massive pin cuts (at one time some were so large, that after removing the pus and fluid, you could literally see muscle tissue underneath the 3cm long gashes. But after being for 8 months, he finally recovered and just recently started walking unsupported. So time and patients and proper care can heal.

The third guy looks like he is doing well and just waiting on his callus to form.

10) There is a guy who is waiting on passport issues to go home. He is the guy who stayed here for 10 months. He is mentioned above earlier.
 
11) finally, I'm here, I have mainly pin / nerve pains and stiffness. Whenever I get out to move about or leave the room, I pay for it later with swelling, pin / nerve pains all day and night, and ankle pains.

The overall atmosphere here is positive in terms of attitude, but high in terms of the REAL reality of LL JOURNEY. Like the patients here mentioned, surgery is easy, but the real work starts on the LL journey. The healthier and fitter you are before surgery, the easier, smoother and less complications you will have.

The Doctor, I believe is too overextended that getting time with him is difficult and short, and he takes concerns and problems brought up by patients as too casual sometimes...unless you're on the brink of dying, then compared to other patients Dr. Sarin see, you are essentially "fine."

The biggest complaint I get from the guys on my floor is that they get annoyed when they bring up an issue only to hear," Don't worry, it's fine" without much explanation. They say the Doc treats the LL surgery like any other surgery he does (he does a lot of surgeries) and is sometimes too casual about things, possibly because he sees cases that are WAYYYYY worse then us Cosmetic Limb lengtheners.

[Muse]

Part 5

The majority of people develop complications. It's not as much as Patient A, but not as little as Patient B.

Patient B;s journey has been overall smoother and more positive then the MAJORITY of people here, for reasons mentioned earlier.

The caretaker who is responsible for the upper 2 floors is an 18 yr old kid. He is cool, but also reckless, forgetful and cuts corners at times, his work ethic needs some boosting - think of how a typical teenager at work behaves.

Whereas, downstairs, there is a professional man who used to be a Ward in the hospital for several years before working at the guesthouse.

When the 18 yr old kid left for a 2 week vacation, the older caretaker downstairs took care of everyone on the top floors as well, and people wish he would continue looking after the top floor patients (approx 10-11) with frames that need him, instead of the downstairs patients (only 5-6) who already took off their frames or are doing better.

Yes, Doctor Sarin's schedule is always busy. Getting a decent amount of time with him can be difficult. There are LL vets here who been here 8 months and 10 months respectively who say they've only spoken to Doctor Sarin, in total, for maybe 5-10 minutes. Well, maybe it's their exaggeration, or maybe it's reality.  My personal experience also suggest it's not easy to speak to the doctor in person due to time constraints.

Most patients are bed ridden. Things needed to properly facilitate movement is lacking. Or, patients are, in some cases, too sick / in pain to move.

I move around to socialize occasionally, but I suffer from rapid swelling of my left leg, and lightheadedness (blood rushing down to legs) that if I sit up or move around too long, I feel like fainting and when I get back to Bed, I basically collapse from exhaustion. This is NOT typical of me, since I'm have an athletic background and my work typically involves being on my feet and moving all day.

[Muse]

Part 5 Continued

Regarding additional news on complications. The guy with his fibula fusing early at 2 cm (while his tibia was lengthened to 5-6cm) he went to the hospital to break the fibula. He was worried that the 3-4 cm sudden gap would lead to non-union.

He was surprised this was NOT noticed earlier. Also, since the Tibia is being lengthened, but fibula was not, wouldn't there have been a bent in the leg that the doctor or X-ray would have picked up? 

He may require a Bone Graft - taking bone from one area of the body and transferring it to the fibula.

Anyway, he didn't get a bone graft, and went to the hospital to break the fibula. He was frustrated at the lack of answers he was getting. He was not properly informed in what was going to be done with him in the OT beforehand, or briefed properly on what was done after beside hearing that they broke his fibula.

AND, the thing that REALLY worried him, his room mate, the other patients and personnel here, was that they did NOT take an X-Ray of his leg AFTER the surgery was performed.

So he has to wait a few weeks for the round of regular X-Rays to know.

Also, there are a few other guys with other conditions.

This guy downstairs loss the use of ALL 10 of his toes, and both ankles, during his LL journey. He was extremely worried but still lengthened 7.5 cm. He removed his frames approx. 1 month ago and just recently, started getting some motor ability in his right leg back.

[Muse]

Part 6

Now, I'm not one to be overly critical about little things here and there such as power outages or minor inconveniences or uncleaniliess (for the most part) but when it comes to patient's health and overall well being, that's not something that should be toyed with or taken lightly.

Improvements have been made, but I believe the first priority should be on addressing and preventing health issues and making sure patients are better off then when they came. A full time nurse was hired because there were some patients that suffered from ailments such as infection and had to be treated.

But other things need to be worked on, such as who is really in charge of the management at the guesthouse. Before, the head manager was suppose to be in charge / have the final say, but now it's becoming more unorganized. There are 3 managers and there is a lot of confusion, miscommunication, or passing on responsibility) and now, apparently when I was speaking to one of the caretakers here about getting something fixed, he said I have to talk to the nurse because the nurse is now apparently the 4th manager?!!

I think Dr Sarin needs to put priority focus on Patients overall well being first, and not passing on responsibility to others, or focusing on smaller things like menu concerns (which is better left to the staff here to take care of).

And finally, and most importantly, the ALOFT, sometimes apathetic ATTITUDE of people here really needs to change, in particular when people bring up serious concerns only to have them passed over is really concerning AND needs to change. In Indian, at least from the experience I went through, attention to detail and precision is NOT priority.

Surprisingly, this has been confirmed by ALL of the current Indian born patients here as well.

In India, there's a lot of poverty, deformity, sickness and death. So in the hospital setting, as long as you're alive then you're consider OK. Getting you to OK or almost OK is the goal, not like in Western countries where they demand a high level of perfection and precision.

[TomD]

Hey Daemon.

I dont mean to horn in on your thread. Your info is invaluable. its awesome! Please keep it up. We need good stories.

In my opinion there is more than one way to skin a cat so to speak.

If Sarin is 'cutting corners' , then lets realize he is also ULTRA cheap in pricing compared to the west. So we have lots of room to bump up the pricing a bit in return for hiring an extra intern or two.

Get the xtra intern at 4k per month (which would bump up the price $1k per person for the 3 months). This guy would spend the entire day wandering the guest house answering patients questions and generally doting on the patients.

This would no doubt resolve most issues. The intern can prescribe mickey mouse diagnosis and certainly take an xr-ray or two. Another option is to INSIST on an x ray anytime they want, if the patient pays for it via debit or whatnot. If the xray shows a problem, its free.

The biggest issue is the ballerina. If Sarin has to tweak his priing slightly to deal with this issue, its well worth it in my opinon to get the guys moving around.

In the end I am no doctor nor have I had any operations so please consider that and have mercy for my potentially ignorant suggestions. 

[KiloKAHN]

Hey Daemon.

I dont mean to horn in on your thread. Your info is invaluable. its awesome! Please keep it up. We need good stories.

In my opinion there is more than one way to skin a cat so to speak.

If Sarin is 'cutting corners' , then lets realize he is also ULTRA cheap in pricing compared to the west. So we have lots of room to bump up the pricing a bit in return for hiring an extra intern or two.

Get the xtra intern at 4k per month (which would bump up the price $1k per person for the 3 months). This guy would spend the entire day wandering the guest house answering patients questions and generally doting on the patients.

This would no doubt resolve most issues. The intern can prescribe mickey mouse diagnosis and certainly take an xr-ray or two. Another option is to INSIST on an x ray anytime they want, if the patient pays for it via debit or whatnot. If the xray shows a problem, its free.

The biggest issue is the ballerina. If Sarin has to tweak his priing slightly to deal with this issue, its well worth it in my opinon to get the guys moving around.

In the end I am no doctor nor have I had any operations so please consider that and have mercy for my potentially ignorant suggestions. 

He may be cheap compared to western doctors, but he charges more for cosmetic LL than almost any orthopedic surgeon in India. There are doctors in India who will do the procedure for between $3,000 - $5,000 for locals and provide stronger frames than Sarin. The thing is a lot of these doctors over there know they can jack the price up for Westerners since they're willing to pay more.

[Muse]

Part 7

" I can tell you someone I have learned from being in India and also old forum :

You must qualify the Doctor.

If you send him emails and he replies back very briefly (like responds back in 1-2 words) then most likely he may be quick with you too.

If you have a consultation with him, see his body language. I should have paid attention to the red flags with Dr. Sarin when I had my consultation with him. His answers were very quick and he kept asking if I was done so he can "run away."

The way he is during his consultation is the way he is now: quick, running away, not properly spending time to educate or disclose Infomation etc.

Also, when a Doctor keeps telling you or answering your questions with, " don't worry about anything." all the time, then that's another warning sign, because maybe he doesn't know how to deal with it, or he's trying to run away from the problem. If they keep saying don't worry about anything at the consultation, then most likely that will be the shi* treatment you will get later.

The proper response would be, " yes, these things could happen, but when/if it does happen, these are the steps we take (immediately) to remedy or fix it..."

Not, " Dont worry, it won't happen." or  "you can trust me."

If your potential doctor is like that in that he is always rushing you, then be careful because that means in the future if you need him, he may not always be there, or not give you the time you need -- these are your legs after all, this is not get your car fixed up or an oil change.

Also, watch out for other warning signs, ThangQueBitBay mentions in his diary about the 3rd world doctor that fked him up always telling him "not to worry" whenever he brought up concerns, or belittled him because he brought up legitimate concerns.

As ThangQueBiet puts it: "If you are considering going to Vietnam for this operation PLEASE DON'T, PLEASE I BEG YOU.   They one thing they will always tell you is "don't worry about anything" and keep quiet about any potential problem you may develop"

So regarding choosing a doctor. Contact the doctor and tell him you are interested and see how he responds. If he responses promptly AND gives you the detailed answers you are looking for, then that's the first step in a several step process in deciding if you should choose him.

Complications happen EVERYWHERE, with even the most skilled Doctors. It's how the Doctor RESPONDS to the situation that determines whether he is a good doctor or a bad doctor "

[Muse]

Part 8

"The first HLN patient got Malaria. And he doesn't know he left with about 2 - 3 cm limb discrepancy.

As well, as femur on his left leg is healed crookedly. 

Lengthening 1mm in a single turn a day potentially caused muscle and nerve issues.

Hydraulic Lengthening Nail, the plastic tube came out in an awkward place : on the side of his hip, near his ass." 

[Muse]

Part 9

"- My overall opinion on doing LL in India with Dr, Sarin,  can I COMFORTABLY AND CONFIDENTLY recommend my family and friends?  As of right now, NO, I don't think taking the extra risks is worth it to save some money...this is not like buying clothes, this is not a game; this is your body you're dealing with here, something you have to live with for the rest of your life.

A patient had a complication with his fibula fusing. It was rebroken; at the time the fibula was rebroken, it was only lengthened to 2cm, whereas, his tibula was 6cm; therefore, there is a 4 cm "missing" discrepancy.
 
Now, this patient complained to Dr. Sarin COUNTLESS times about Pains in his fibula region. Whenever he received his X-Rays he noticed something not right about his fibula. Dr. Sarin told him, "don't worry, it's fine, keep lengthening" which he did even though he was under intense pain.

It wasn't until he got to 6 cm on his Tibia X-Ray that Dr. Sarin FINALLY acknowledged his problem and decided to fix it...BUT LATE, months after the problem had progressed. Now, even if the Fibula was rebroken, there would be a 4 cm gap that may create a non-union (Space where fractured Bone does not heal).

The patients here read up and said that in order to properly heal up he would need a Bone Graft.But Dr. Sarin said different, he said he would just rebrake the bone and see if the bone heals without that sort of intervention. So a few days before surgery, the guy was told they would do an S-cut on him and that everything will be fine.

After surgery, it was  revealed that they did NOT do the S-cut, and simply just broke it. He asked for explanations BUT did NOT receive much, and when he asked for a follow up X-Ray, the Doctor said he did NOT need one. He was pissed. When he got back to the guesthouse, the other patients were shocked they did not properly do what they said they would do, and on top of that, did NOT even bother to take a follow up X-Ray.

Patient B (mentioned earlier above) did not go into detail about this guy's complications on his old forum  diary, he made it too causual and downplayed the whole process. Possibly so other potential future LLs would not be scared off.

Many times we've talked, what the majority of patients here are frustrated with, is the lack of care and transparency between Doctor and patients. Things are taken too casually, not properly explain, and in fact, sometimes not properly done / done sloppily.

And instead of focusing on preventing problems, issues are usually left till the last moment when they have worsen, before even being recognized and potentially fixed - though with more dramatic and worse after effects from leaving it untreated for so long.

Anyway, A month later, when the patient had to remove his frames, he was in for another, SUDDEN surprise as well. While laying on the Operating Table, before going unconscious from the anathesia, Doctor Sarin felt his ankle and said, "Uh oh, problem."

At that time on the operating table, after hearing there was a problem seconds before blacking out....when he woke up he got a modified frame on his leg.

This isn't the only time someone went into surgery expecting one thing, and waking up with a frame on. This has happened to the 11 month UK guy who later developed Foot Drop (inability to lift entire foot, or toes) on the leg with the second frame; to Crazy+6 when he went for a routine surgery; and now most recently to a well know old forum  patient, when he came to get his leg straightened.

The well known old forum  patient wanted additional surgery to straighten his legs because they are still slightly Bowed, it was suppose to be a simple procedure and would be walking out the hospital with a cane in a few days...when he woke up, he had frames on. "

[TomD]

This is good stuff Daemon.

I would like to have a 'complaints' section for matters such as these so that the Doctors can have an opportunity to say their side of the story. The site www.ripoffreport.com does this. They dont erase any complaint but allow the defendant to retort.

[TomD]

Hey Leo

Great video. Is that the Sarin guest house? Looks like a lot of guys working out and the place looks very clean. 

[alps]

Hey Leo

Great video. Is that the Sarin guest house? Looks like a lot of guys working out and the place looks very clean. 

That is Dr. Sringari's guest house.
Dr. Sarin's guest house looks clean too, from Calic's and DEM's videos.

[Leonardo2013]

people missed my point. I meant to say that after reading about all the complications and downfalls in this particular section of the forum that people have encountered how come not one, but several patients appear on this video and they look like their having the time of their lives (easy journey walking and working out). I know that CLL varies from person to person but now I'm becoming skeptical if some posts are over-exaggerated or not. I mean, some people say easy ride, others hard & painful as f@ck, and others are left in the middle.

[alps]

people missed my point. I meant to say that after reading about all the complications and downfalls in this particular section of the forum that people have encountered how come not one, but several patients appear on this video and they look like their having the time of their lives (easy journey walking and working out). I know that CLL varies from person to person but now I'm becoming skeptical if some posts are over-exaggerated or not. I mean, some people say easy ride, others hard & painful as f@ck, and others are left in the middle.

Well I think people might be inclined to lie if doctors read the diaries but otherwise I don't see why anyone would lie. Exaggerate for attention? Or to make the diary sound better? I really doubt that. I hope I understood you right.

[TomD]

That is Dr. Sringari's guest house.
Dr. Sarin's guest house looks clean too, from Calic's and DEM's videos.

Cool that is the first one I have seen from Sringari. Is there any way to get a diary started from that guest house?

[KiloKAHN]

Even if the video looks like patients are doing well, there are still multiple reasons why I would never go to Dr. Sringari.

1) Dr. Sringari's orthopedic training did not include an extensive time focusing on the sub-specialty of Ilizarov surgeries. He is trained in hip and knee replacement primarily. This orthopedic surgeon in particular is just looking to jump in on the cosmetic limb lengthening money train in India. Right after Sysopotheosis met Sringari to "invest" in him around the time of Sysop's falling out with Dr. Sarin, Sringari had a website built and he included limb lengthening as something he's highly experienced in. This is not really the case. Going to an orthopedic surgeon not focused on the sub-specialty of Ilizarov surgeries is not a risk I'm willing to take and other people should not take that risk either.

Strike one.

2) I highly doubt that Dr. Sringari had no idea that Crazy+6 aka "ThePhantom" was posing as a patient of his. Yet of course he's getting potential patients this way so he lets him do it - or maybe even gave Crazy the idea in the first place.

Strike two.

3) Dr. Sringari clearly doesn't do a psychological evaluation on any of his patients, which is something important as we heard some of the stories about a nutjob that underwent surgery with Dr. Sarin. I believe his first real patient was LL Forumorlife, who if you don't remember, went on old forum  and threatened to kill himself if someone didn't sponsor surgery with Dr. Sarin. He apparently only had $10,000 given to him by his mother and needed more money to afford the rest. Well, $4,000 thousand US dollars takes quite a while for the average person to acquire in India. Then what do you know, a mere few weeks later he is somehow able to afford surgery with Dr. Sringari. Any guesses who helped him acquire that money? If it wasn't Sysop, then Sringari likely gave LL Forumorlife a discount if he advertised him on old forum . Whichever the case, it's far too sketchy for me.

Strike three.

Sringari's current patients are all nuts to be doing the procedure under him.

[alps]

Cool that is the first one I have seen from Sringari. Is there any way to get a diary started from that guest house?

Well there are 4 patients there if I'm right. All 4 of them have diaries on old forum .
It would be quite hard to get anyone there to write here given Dr. Sringari and SysOp are allies.
Oh and the main problem of communicating with them. No PMs

[alps]

1) Dr. Sringari's orthopedic training did not include an extensive time focusing on the sub-specialty of Ilizarov surgeries. He is trained in hip and knee replacement primarily. This orthopedic surgeon in particular is just looking to jump in on the cosmetic limb lengthening money train in India. Right after Sysopotheosis met Sringari to "invest" in him around the time of Sysop's falling out with Dr. Sarin, Sringari had a website built and he included limb lengthening as something he's highly experienced in. This is not really the case. Going to an orthopedic surgeon not focused on the sub-specialty of Ilizarov surgeries is not a risk I'm willing to take and other people should not take that risk either.

Yeah the website is so bad. It's still unfinished. He made one just for the sake of this. Look at the background pictures of some random surgeon/nurses. Seriously.

[TomD]

When Dr. Sringari figures out he can get patients here for FREE, he wont be Sysopethisis ally for long.

However,lets get back to Sarin. I will start an ongoing thread for him.

[Leonardo2013]

I read somewhere in the forum that the average cost for leg lengthening in India is $3000 to $4000 -- it's outrageous that the price for CLL is above $10,000 specially for foreigners. I hope that over time there will appear more docs in India who jump into the CLL business so that the price could drop somehow.

[KiloKAHN]

I read somewhere in the forum that the average cost for leg lengthening in India is $3000 to $4000 -- it's outrageous that the price for CLL is above $10,000 specially for foreigners. I hope that over time there will appear more docs in India who jump into the CLL business so that the price could drop somehow.

It's true. Dr. Sringari and Dr. Sarin both charge $10,000 for the procedure alone (Sringari bumps to $14,000 and Sarin bumps to $17,500 for the accommodation), which is double what many in India typically charge locals.

Fortunately for me, I have an apartment to stay at in Delhi as well as locals there who I'm close to so they can help make sure nobody screws me over.

[Blackhawk]

I read somewhere in the forum that the average cost for leg lengthening in India is $3000 to $4000 -- it's outrageous that the price for CLL is above $10,000 specially for foreigners. I hope that over time there will appear more docs in India who jump into the CLL business so that the price could drop somehow.

Did both of these doctors bump up their prices in order to be able to give that scumbag apotheosis a kickback?

[Adriano]

The reason why foreigners pay a high price is very simple

1) they can afford to
2) foreigners want to see a lot of information about the doctors, his reputation, ......how many good diaries the doctor has on LL forums and etc   lol

For this 2 reasons, doctors who manage to break it into old forum  or other LL forums that provide international marketing for them end up raising LL prices.

Its true that u can get LL in India for 5K but u will have to ensure that u get good accommodation, PT, etc at extra cost. India is so cheap though that you can still keep your total spending around or below 10K US dollars.

Guess what though, if you took this approach, we know very well how LL forum members will start judging you saying you are an idiot for doing surgery with unproven doctors, etc.

Singari is charging 14K. How much do u think he would cost if you took out Syoup's cut  (kick back  ) from that 14K?

[TomD]

Lol . It would go down to $8000 bucks probably.

[Machine]

Everything said in the beginning of this thread by Dameon are completely 100% true ....
i m from india......i know hindi very well .
i don't want to be specific , not only the patients but all the other staffs members were saying that Dr Sarin is an a**hole behind back.
but nobody bothers unless they have suffered.
 

[4cms]

Part 4

A UK patient here went through a lot of craziness through his 10 month journey here. Listening to him regale the days of the beginning of LL to now shows so much improvement and positive changes to the Guesthouse situation. But there still needs lots of improvements. He is leaving soon (he hopes) and he wants treatment for the things that are still wrong with him in the UK because the expertise of the doctors and because treatment is free in the UK.

He was intending to do a second LL in India, but now, his mind has changed. He says that even to this day, he still has not had a PROPER answer to what is wrong with him, so he is getting frustrated, but also fighting and keeping a positive attitude. He's been here for 10+ months and dealt with unimaginable complications and pain and loss.

Even to this day he cannot lift his ankle and its basically paralyzed, its known as "foot drop." That condition developed after he had some skin issues and had chunks of flesh from his ankle removed. After seeing him I felt lucky with my situation because my situation seems a lot better / curable on its own.

As of today, almost everyone has problems now. Some had severe, but it fortunate to know that the patients who had complications, the majority of them recovered after some long time.

I was speaking with a bunch of patients and they get pissed off at old forum  site because the Infomation on their is NOT ACCURRATE to reflect the majority of patients. old forum  is a small, biased view, generally with people who are doing better and does not reflect the general statuses of the majority of the patients.

I know exactly who you are talking about and I was there when he was there and i tell you 100 percent that the guy lengthened way too much.  If I recall correctly he lengthened 8.8 cms on his tibs.  Anytime you do that your asking for trouble,  one guy there lengthened 11 cms,  I was the only one that lengthened under 6cms and i turned out Just fine.
One other thing the pin area with the scab and what looks like puss is perfectly normal I had them too and it simply days up and goes away on its own. It's actually not an infection it's the body's way of coping with an open wound.
The body creates a large scab around the open wound to keep it protected.
I really do think alot of patients from the guest house are a bunch of whining babies lol I was one of them at one point.