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[farmerjohn1324]

I am considering LL surgery. I live in Florida, so if price were not an issue, I would go with Dr. Paley, but price is an issue.

I've heard of doctors in India that do for $17,500 for tibia and another $17,500 for femur. Is that the lowest prices I should be expecting? I am trying to find a doctor that is inexpensive compared to Paley, but also that has good reviews. I don't mind traveling, I actually like to travel.

How many cm's should I go for? I want to gain as much as possible, but I don't want to ask for more than what's realistic, and I don't want to increase the chance of complications by trying to get too much height increase.

How bad is the pain during the recovery? And how long does it last for?

[farmerjohn1324]

From reading other threads, it seems like Russia, India, and China are my best bets.

Any suggestions for specific doctors?

It seems like internal is the way to go. I hope I can find a reputable, reasonably priced doctor outside of the USA to do this.

And hopefully I won't have to be out of the country for too long.

After I heal and am moving forward with my life... Will I still be able to lift the same amount? Will I have to worry about my leg breaking under stress when I'm old?

[dean9191]

vietnam is the cheapest. but someone should go and find more details for us

[Android]

Note that this is just info I've learned from reading patient diaries and doctor info threads.

For India there's Dr. Parihar, who charges around $15k for externals and under $50k for internals. He's highly respected and is a good choice, recommended by Dr. Paley as well. Dr. Parihar has a good reputation because there are more patient diaries for him. His technique is solid, but his office and hospital aren't very modern looking, so you'll have to lower your expectations on that front. You'll need to find accommodation yourself, and you may end up getting a hotel for around $30-50/day.

If you'd like to save more money, there's Dr. Solomin and Dr. Kulesh in Russia. They both work together, with Dr. Solomin being the senior of the two. Around $3k-5k for traditional externals or $5k-8k for LON/LATN. They do not offer internals. They have less diaries, but the ones we have are positive so far. They offer two hospitals for treatment, one is more expensive (about double) but they have English speaking staff, is more modern, and offers foreign visa support. You can choose to do some operations in one hospital and stay at another. They'll help you find an apartment through a realtor, which is around $430/mo.

There's also Dr. Birkholtz in South Africa. Just a disclaimer if you're unaware, South Africa is a metropolitan country and is very modern and safe. It will cost more here, at around $35k or $52k for internals, but accommodation is included. He does impose a limit on lengthening however (5 cm tibia, 6 cm femurs).

dean9191 suggested Vietnam, and they are indeed the cheapest with Dr. Thuy, but there are so few diaries that it's still an uncertain choice. Externals only, around $12k which includes accommodation, physician, food, house keeper, driver, etc.

[farmerjohn1324]

Note that this is just info I've learned from reading patient diaries and doctor info threads.

For India there's Dr. Parihar, who charges around $15k for externals and under $50k for internals. He's highly respected and is a good choice, recommended by Dr. Paley as well. Dr. Parihar has a good reputation because there are more patient diaries for him. His technique is solid, but his office and hospital aren't very modern looking, so you'll have to lower your expectations on that front. You'll need to find accommodation yourself, and you may end up getting a hotel for around $30-50/day.

If you'd like to save more money, there's Dr. Solomin and Dr. Kulesh in Russia. They both work together, with Dr. Solomin being the senior of the two. Around $3k-5k for traditional externals or $5k-8k for LON/LATN. They do not offer internals. They have less diaries, but the ones we have are positive so far. They offer two hospitals for treatment, one is more expensive (about double) but they have English speaking staff, is more modern, and offers foreign visa support. You can choose to do some operations in one hospital and stay at another. They'll help you find an apartment through a realtor, which is around $430/mo.

There's also Dr. Birkholtz in South Africa. Just a disclaimer if you're unaware, South Africa is a metropolitan country and is very modern and safe. It will cost more here, at around $35k or $52k for internals, but accommodation is included. He does impose a limit on lengthening however (5 cm tibia, 6 cm femurs).

dean9191 suggested Vietnam, and they are indeed the cheapest with Dr. Thuy, but there are so few diaries that it's still an uncertain choice. Externals only, around $12k which includes accommodation, physician, food, house keeper, driver, etc.

I didn't realize internals were so much more expensive. It's gonna suck wearing those braces for so long.

You said Vietnam was cheapest, but the price for the Russian guy was less?

What is the maximum I should expect to realistically achieve for both tibia and femur?

I'm currently just under 5'8". I wouldn't mind being 6'2" or more.

[Android]

It seems like internal is the way to go. I hope I can find a reputable, reasonably priced doctor outside of the USA to do this.

And hopefully I won't have to be out of the country for too long.

After I heal and am moving forward with my life... Will I still be able to lift the same amount? Will I have to worry about my leg breaking under stress when I'm old?

Externals for tibia are fine, but you might want to consider internals for femurs as it's a lot more comfortable. On externals, you'll have frames going up to your butt, so you can imagine the hassles you'll face going to the bathroom.

You'll be out of the country for at least three to four months during the distraction phase. This is when you're lengthening your bones around 1 mm per day, and this is when the doctor will need to keep a closer eye on your progress. Many doctors will allow you to go home during consolidations, when your bones are healing after lengthening. This will take approximately the same time it took to lengthen. You will be in crutches or a wheelchair for most of this time. You can get the frames removed in your home country if you'd like. Some methods, including internals, will require another surgery session.

You won't have to worry about your leg snapping, but you will most likely never return to 100% of your original athleticism. Not a big concern unless your life revolves around running or active sports like football. A more common concern is ballerina foot, in which your feet look like they're tiptoeing like a ballerina. Extreme cases can lead to releasing the Achille's tendon, which should be avoided if possible. This can be avoided via daily stretching and physical therapy.

[Android]

I didn't realize internals were so much more expensive. It's gonna suck wearing those braces for so long.

You said Vietnam was cheapest, but the price for the Russian guy was less?

What is the maximum I should expect to realistically achieve for both tibia and femur?

I'm currently just under 5'8". I wouldn't mind being 6'2" or more.

Internals are much more expensive, because the nail itself -- be it PRECISE or Fitbone -- cost a lot of money themselves. For instance, Dr. Parihar doesn't charge any more for the surgery, but he has to import the nails from America and that's the price difference. They create less scars (note: can get scar removal if it bothers you) and it'll be comfortable, but yes... Much more expensive. But plenty of people have done external femurs, so you can do it as long as you're determined and resourceful.

Vietnam is cheaper because it's all inclusive. While in this example Russia is cheaper at first glance, it doesn't include accommodation, food, physical therapy, transportation to/from hospital, etc. But again, we don't have a lot of data yet on Vietnam (we have three diaries), so don't get too excited at the price.

Many recommended maximum lengthening of around 6 cm (2.36 in), but this is an average; you won't know until you get a consultation. The taller your starting height, the longer you can go. Generally the rule of thumb is you'll gain 10~20% of your existing bone segment length (which we can't measure accurately ourselves, hence the consultation).

[farmerjohn1324]

Internals are much more expensive, because the nail itself -- be it PRECISE or Fitbone -- cost a lot of money themselves. For instance, Dr. Parihar doesn't charge any more for the surgery, but he has to import the nails from America and that's the price difference. They create less scars (note: can get scar removal if it bothers you) and it'll be comfortable, but yes... Much more expensive. But plenty of people have done external femurs, so you can do it as long as you're determined and resourceful.

Vietnam is cheaper because it's all inclusive. While in this example Russia is cheaper at first glance, it doesn't include accommodation, food, physical therapy, transportation to/from hospital, etc. But again, we don't have a lot of data yet on Vietnam (we have three diaries), so don't get too excited at the price.

Many recommended maximum lengthening of around 6 cm (2.36 in), but this is an average; you won't know until you get a consultation. The taller your starting height, the longer you can go. Generally the rule of thumb is you'll gain 10~20% of your existing bone segment length (which we can't measure accurately ourselves, hence the consultation).

Do both internal and external create scars? Which is worse?

If I do external, how long should I expect to be in the brace? Does it depend on how many cm I add?

Are the crutches and wheelchair only during distraction? Or consolidation as well?

That's 6 cm for tibia and another 6 cm for femur, totalling 12? Which would mean up to a year in the fixator? Up to 6 months in the area surrounding the hospital for the distraction phase?

[Android]

Do both internal and external create scars? Which is worse?

If I do external, how long should I expect to be in the brace? Does it depend on how many cm I add?

Are the crutches and wheelchair only during distraction? Or consolidation as well?

That's 6 cm for tibia and another 6 cm for femur, totalling 12? Which would mean up to a year in the fixator? Up to 6 months in the area surrounding the hospital for the distraction phase?

Internals will leave smaller and fewer scars. Pin site infection rate is also lower with internals; common with externals, but it's not a big deal.


Both internal and external will take about an inch a month during the lengthening phase, so yes -- amount lengthened will increase time. If you go with pure externals, you'll also have to leave the frames on during the consolidation phase, basically doubling the discomfort time. The advantage of only going purely external is that it's generally cheaper and is easier to fix complications. But you can go for LON or LATN to lock in nails after lengthening, which means you can remove the frames; much more comfortable. You can read the different methods here.


You'll need crutches and/or wheelchair during consolidation as well. This depends on your bone regrowth speed, weight, and method of CLL chosen. You could be walking unassisted in just four to five months depending on a combination of factors (e.g. fast growth, light weight, PRECISE internal nail, etc.).


Generally you can lengthen a little more on the femurs, and depending on your doctor and your body, they may suggest you to lengthen more (or less). You might even decide yourself that it's time to stop if you start to feel pain.


If you want to do all four segments (both femurs and both tibias), you have a few options:

• Pick femurs or tibias and finish one at a time: takes the most time, flexibility of quitting if you're satisfied at the end
• Internal femurs and external tibia: start one pair, wait a month or so and start the next pair. Comfortable, expensive (still cheaper than internals for both)
• Sequential cross-elongation (external): lengthen left femur and right tibia, wait a few months, then operate on opposite pair. Not as uncomfortable as two externals on femurs

Note that aside from #1, you'll need to find a doctor that is willing to do all segments for you. In the end, what you read on the internet and what your doctor will say will depend on many variables, so take this with a grain of salt.

[fivetenneeded2016]

I dont understand why people dont consider dr pili/catagni when on a low budget. Their fees is low and skills are better than others in that range.

[Android]

I dont understand why people dont consider dr pili/catagni when on a low budget. Their fees is low and skills are better than others in that range.

Please join in and discuss in detail, don't let our oversight deter you.

[farmerjohn1324]

Internals will leave smaller and fewer scars. Pin site infection rate is also lower with internals; common with externals, but it's not a big deal.


Both internal and external will take about an inch a month during the lengthening phase, so yes -- amount lengthened will increase time. If you go with pure externals, you'll also have to leave the frames on during the consolidation phase, basically doubling the discomfort time. The advantage of only going purely external is that it's generally cheaper and is easier to fix complications. But you can go for LON or LATN to lock in nails after lengthening, which means you can remove the frames; much more comfortable. You can read the different methods here.


You'll need crutches and/or wheelchair during consolidation as well. This depends on your bone regrowth speed, weight, and method of CLL chosen. You could be walking unassisted in just four to five months depending on a combination of factors (e.g. fast growth, light weight, PRECISE internal nail, etc.).


Generally you can lengthen a little more on the femurs, and depending on your doctor and your body, they may suggest you to lengthen more (or less). You might even decide yourself that it's time to stop if you start to feel pain.


If you want to do all four segments (both femurs and both tibias), you have a few options:

• Pick femurs or tibias and finish one at a time: takes the most time, flexibility of quitting if you're satisfied at the end
• Internal femurs and external tibia: start one pair, wait a month or so and start the next pair. Comfortable, expensive (still cheaper than internals for both)
• Sequential cross-elongation (external): lengthen left femur and right tibia, wait a few months, then operate on opposite pair. Not as uncomfortable as two externals on femurs

Note that aside from #1, you'll need to find a doctor that is willing to do all segments for you. In the end, what you read on the internet and what your doctor will say will depend on many variables, so take this with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the link.

External fixator wouldn't be as much of an issue for consolidation phase if I used one of the smaller fixators instead of the full Ilizarov Apparatus.

Now it's time to start researching doctors and prices.

[farmerjohn1324]

I dont understand why people dont consider dr pili/catagni when on a low budget. Their fees is low and skills are better than others in that range.

Who says I wasn't considering him? I haven't started contacting doctors yet. I don't even know who he is.

What methods does he use and what are his prices? Where is he located?

[Android]

What methods does he use and what are his prices? Where is he located?

Save you a few clicks: Dr. Catagni and Dr. Pili.

[farmerjohn1324]

Save you a few clicks: Dr. Catagni and Dr. Pili.

They both use the bulky external frame for their cheapest option. I'm trying to avoid that.

[Android]

They both use the bulky external frame for their cheapest option. I'm trying to avoid that.

If you want to avoid bulky frames, you have a few options:

• Minimize time in frames via LON/LATN
• Monorails, Dr. Mitkovic comes to mind
• Internals

[farmerjohn1324]

If you want to avoid bulky frames, you have a few options:

• Minimize time in frames via LON/LATN
• Monorails, Dr. Mitkovic comes to mind
• Internals

Thanks. I emailed him. I wonder if he's raised his price of 9300 EUR since 2014.

[jerkey]

Also, remember beyond the cost of lengthening itself, usually any cost of complication is paid for by the patient (god forbid) plus unknown costs living in a foreign country. Make sure you have a sufficient reserve of funds above what is required to pay for surgery before you proceed. In the meantime, try the shoe lifts to get a feel for being taller. I know it feels like fraud, etc b/c that's how I felt but this is a big, expensive surgery so it is best to have a good realistic expectation for outcome.

Just one thing to add - make sure if you are going to do femurs as part of your surgery to go to a surgeon with lots of experience. It's a small chance but the deaths that have been associated with LL had mostly been due to fat embolism. Make sure you read the diaries and take your time to make your decision. Being tall is good but make sure you are safe, especially since once your legs are broken you are limited. Best of luck!

[farmerjohn1324]

Also, remember beyond the cost of lengthening itself, usually any cost of complication is paid for by the patient (god forbid) plus unknown costs living in a foreign country. Make sure you have a sufficient reserve of funds above what is required to pay for surgery before you proceed. In the meantime, try the shoe lifts to get a feel for being taller. I know it feels like fraud, etc b/c that's how I felt but this is a big, expensive surgery so it is best to have a good realistic expectation for outcome.

Just one thing to add - make sure if you are going to do femurs as part of your surgery to go to a surgeon with lots of experience. It's a small chance but the deaths that have been associated with LL had mostly been due to fat embolism. Make sure you read the diaries and take your time to make your decision. Being tall is good but make sure you are safe, especially since once your legs are broken you are limited. Best of luck!

Where can I buy the best shoe lifts?

What's so great about being tall?

[Android]

jerkey makes a good point, always have extra cash in the bank, since it's hard to estimate living costs and potential complications.

Where can I buy the best shoe lifts?

You can look on places like Amazon for something like "height increase insole." They're inserts for shoes that add anywhere from half an inch to who knows how much. It's a decent way to preview how tall you'll be post-recovery, and also a good way to slowly transition to your new height without people noticing. You'll need shoes that can accommodate these however (e.g. shoes with shallow heels won't work). I regularly wear ankle-high leather boots with insoles since my workplace is a bit more formal.

Another option is getting elevator shoes. They have extra height built into them, but they obviously cost more since you get an entire new set of shoes.

[dean9191]

dean9191 suggested Vietnam, and they are indeed the cheapest with Dr. Thuy, but there are so few diaries that it's still an uncertain choice. Externals only, around $12k which includes accommodation, physician, food, house keeper, driver, etc.

Thank u for being very informative. I need to add something up. you can get LON in vietnam and its around 13 600 including everything even complications as they say. Read Asainn's diary and there was another girl who did that. There will be another diary soon if things go as they expected. Im actually gonna go visit vietnam and see the facility within next few years. i live close to vietnam

[Android]

Thank u for being very informative. I need to add something up. you can get LON in vietnam and its around 13 600 including everything even complications as they say. Read Asainn's diary and there was another girl who did that. There will be another diary soon if things go as they expected. Im actually gonna go visit vietnam and see the facility within next few years. i live close to vietnam

Great! There's a lot of mystery still surrounding Dr. Thuy, and the price is definitely attractive -- it's like a throwback to the early days of CLL. It'd be great if you could meet and talk to current and past patients to see how they're doing. Looking forward to your updates.

Here's the website if you haven't found it already. As you can see in the patient dairies section, the only diaries are actually links to this forum, which is kind of odd. I hope that the clinic is just actively promoting a legitimate service, not making fake diaries for instant credibility.

[dean9191]

Great! There's a lot of mystery still surrounding Dr. Thuy, and the price is definitely attractive -- it's like a throwback to the early days of CLL. It'd be great if you could meet and talk to current and past patients to see how they're doing. Looking forward to your updates.

Here's the website if you haven't found it already. As you can see in the patient dairies section, the only diaries are actually links to this forum, which is kind of odd. I hope that the clinic is just actively promoting a legitimate service, not making fake diaries for instant credibility.

Yes i saw the site. I think they didnt have much patients yet but once i asked thao (manager) said most people dont want to reveal their identity or write a review.
Dr. Thuy is retired now theres another doctor. Ill copy a message i received from a prospective LLer who visited the hospital.

"I did contact and visit the hospital. Actually, they are kind of an institute belong to a state hospital, that why the cost quite good. However, if compared with other hospital, the price is a bit expensive.
I also choose them to lengthen my leg. Tibias by LON, at least 7cm without Achilles tendon relieve. I discussed with them about make a contract because I don't want to make ATR but also I need at least 7cm. So I talk with doctor and very happy that he said it is possible as long as I can practice everyday during lengthen process. They introduce me with 1 guy (Vietnamese) who make 8,2cm without ATR there. He is very nice, open and we keep contact till now. Oh Jesus, I am so crazy with this thought I am going to higher 7cm. However, I canot do it right now. I am pregnant and need to wait an other 2 years to do LL.   
There are some patients come from different country, include Europe. So you will have some one to talk to. Living in Vietnamese community, life seem boring and very long cus you feel quite lonely .  Doctor cannot speak in English and you need to talk to doctor assistant. By the way, there is a Thailand guy who mess up with tibias LL in Thailand so that he has to come this hospital to correct it ( I am not sure what wrong happen in Thailand, I did not have time to talk with him and he cannot speak E well). Finally he got 8cm lengthen and he will take off the frame in the end of Sep.   

Do it. LL worth to conquer. "

"Dr Luong is well known in Hanoi among LLer and he had deal with hundred case of LLer so far. His price is supper cheap (3000usd for 1 operation and 10-15 days in hospital with food + 2000 usd for 2nd operation to remove the frame after 3-5 month + 800 usd for pre-heath check and medicine ect ) excluded complication if it happens. So if everything going well (80% of his case) patient need to pay about 5800 usd in total. The living cost in Hanoi about 500 usd per month (for 3 month lengthening). if you know a bit Vietnamese or know some one can help you with translation then it will be good option also. I can share his private number if you want

In STO Phương Dông in HCM city ( I uses Vietnamese in case you want to search their address in the internet) the price is 15000Usd. The different thing is: 3 months living (house, food, helper, internet, traveling from house to hospital, TP doctor....) are included. Visa application support and fee and pick up from airport for foreigner if needed.  And the most important is any kind of complication fee if needed. They said, they provide you surplus 24 hour-care for everything to make sure very rare possibility of complication. They have some staff who can speak E to help you communicate with doctor.

Comeback to your country will be after operation 3,5-4months I think. I consult with patient here and most of them can not start to walk before 3,5 months even with support of crutches, . Don't believe them if they say 3 months. the guy i told you, he start to walk after 4 month with crutches and 5 months without crutches. he can walk quite good now though awkwardly after almost 6 months. He share with me alot of his walking video, as well as picture.  But i can not pass it to you with out his permission.

if you go for LL anywhere even not in Vietnam, please keep contact with me and share your experience. I will be valuable information for me because any way i need to wait almost 2 year from now to do LL
Good luck.     

I think for foreigner, STO is better option if you decide to go for VN. "

[Android]

Yes i saw the site. I think they didnt have much patients yet but once i asked thao (manager) said most people dont want to reveal their identity or write a review.
Dr. Thuy is retired now theres another doctor. Ill copy a message i received from a prospective LLer who visited the hospital.

Fascinating info, thanks for sharing! That is cheap indeed, wish we could learn more about Dr. Luong and his patients without actually visiting. It's hard to spend money just to check a place out when there are plenty of doctors with established reputations.

[Andy]

Hi, you can also check this.. www.athensbjr.com/cost-and-pricing-of-cosmetic-limb-lengthening.html. They are based in Athens Greece. I don't know if they are the"least expensive" in the world but they must be one of the least expensive options in Western Europe...I don't know much.. but it seemed that Dr Dimitrios Giotikas has had a lot of experience in bone lengthening and bone transport with nails and frames in the United Kingdom.

[419]

Hi, you can also check this.. www.athensbjr.com/cost-and-pricing-of-cosmetic-limb-lengthening.html. They are based in Athens Greece. I don't know if they are the"least expensive" in the world but they must be one of the least expensive options in Western Europe...I don't know much.. but it seemed that Dr Dimitrios Giotikas has had a lot of experience in bone lengthening and bone transport with nails and frames in the United Kingdom.

Thanks, any more info on this doctor? any diaries here or old forum ?

[McCarony]

i'm 5'3'', is there any way i can grow more? what if i lengthn both my tibia and my femur?

[Andy]

Thanks, any more info on this doctor? any diaries here or old forum ?

I've met him twice.Once online-they have a free online introductory consultation option in their website-and once in person in the UK. He seemed well educated and knowledgeable and with good manners. He was comfortable enough to tell me that his practice is new but his experience is substantial. I believed him because I do know that in the center that he works in the UK they do a high volume of bone transport for all reasons (trauma ,deformities, limb lengthening etc).

[Bander72]

That is a very good price for internal femurs.

[419]

Hi, you can also check this.. www.athensbjr.com/cost-and-pricing-of-cosmetic-limb-lengthening.html. They are based in Athens Greece. I don't know if they are the"least expensive" in the world but they must be one of the least expensive options in Western Europe...I don't know much.. but it seemed that Dr Dimitrios Giotikas has had a lot of experience in bone lengthening and bone transport with nails and frames in the United Kingdom.

Andy, thanks for the link, is the both segments price for external only? I mean are they really doing internal femur plus external tibia for only 54 k euro?!! thanks.

[Android]

Andy, thanks for the link, is the both segments price for external only? I mean are they really doing internal femur plus external tibia for only 54 k euro?!! thanks.

I actually emailed the clinic a week ago, it's 54k Euro for external tibias and internal Precise 2 for femurs.