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[Android]

Sounds sensible to me. As long as they do their homework, take a step back and see their situation with an objective gaze, it's really up to them.

I see this argument a lot: "you think you have it hard, try being my height!" It's understandable, we've all felt this way and want to vent, but no amount of empathy is going to put them in our shoes. They've lived their life in their own way, and for some reason ended up looking into CLL.

Many of us on this forum want to get into the average height club, but I don't blame average height people wanting to become objectively tall. I can understand the desire for that when all our lives we're encouraged (and rewarded) to be better than average.

[myloginacct]

Sounds sensible to me. As long as they do their homework, take a step back and see their situation with an objective gaze, it's really up to them.

This is the problem here. Some of these objectively-tall-but-average-in-their-country people don't do their "homework" properly.

Many of us on this forum want to get into the average height club, but I don't blame average height people wanting to become objectively tall. I can understand the desire for that when all our lives we're encouraged (and rewarded) to be better than average.

Imagine being 5'11/180cm or 6'/183cm and getting "butchered" by any of the worst surgeons we know of. Be careful to not become what you're fighting. The concept that "more" height is better is heightist in itself. You are unnaturally adding more height to your legs; you aren't making all of yourself proportionally taller.

Going back to my example and actually illustrating it: you (180cm+ man) wanted to get taller. Soon. For cheap. Imagine how much of a loser you'd be seen by your peers to ruin your perfectly fine legs when you're taller than the vast majority of humans on the planet, and the worst possible scenario is that you're average where you live. Walking with a limp - or worse - to remind everyone of what you did to yourself. In this case, a failed CLL would be seen in much worse ways than a legitimately short guy who was just trying to experience life like the men within the normal distribution of height do.

I'm just putting it in a harsh way how the cost-benefit analysis that must be made is different for different heights. This "discrimination" is just trying to make really sure the people with low benefits really know what they're getting into. The taller you are, the more you'll be "discriminated" against. Most people don't like seeing others making possibly terrible decisions for themselves.

[Android]

Yep, I wouldn't encourage it. My first sentence in the last message was short, but it's important.

[Johnson1111]

This is the problem here. Some of these objectively-tall-but-average-in-their-country people don't do their "homework" properly.

Imagine being 5'11/180cm or 6'/183cm and getting "butchered" by any of the worst surgeons we know of. Be careful to not become what you're fighting. The concept that "more" height is better is heightist in itself. You are unnaturally adding more height to your legs; you aren't making all of yourself proportionally taller.

Going back to my example and actually illustrating it: you (180cm+ man) wanted to get taller. Soon. For cheap. Imagine how much of a loser you'd be seen by your peers to ruin your perfectly fine legs when you're taller than the vast majority of humans on the planet, and the worst possible scenario is that you're average where you live. Walking with a limp - or worse - to remind everyone of what you did to yourself. In this case, a failed CLL would be seen in much worse ways than a legitimately short guy who was just trying to experience life like the men within the normal distribution of height do.

I'm just putting it in a harsh way how the cost-benefit analysis that must be made is different for different heights. This "discrimination" is just trying to make really sure the people with low benefits really know what they're getting into. The taller you are, the more you'll be "discriminated" against. Most people don't like seeing others making possibly terrible decisions for themselves.

I think most of it is that people can't imagine themselves with these complications as it's never happened to them. They feel they'll just be able to accept whatever as long as they get their instant gratification. And then you'll see the posts after about "How stupid I was" to make this decision...And then the next onlookers will just sift past it and think it could never happen to them.

I forget who's thread it was but they said that they were thinking about either suicide or LL. When they went through LL they realized that all they wanted to do was get it over with and be healthy.

Someone who's 5'11" wanting to get LL is absolutely insane in my eyes. Once they get the limp or the problem they'll wish they listened but i've found it's almost impossible to convince them otherwise when their mind is made up.

[MirinHeight]

I think most of it is that people can't imagine themselves with these complications as it's never happened to them. They feel they'll just be able to accept whatever as long as they get their instant gratification. And then you'll see the posts after about "How stupid I was" to make this decision...And then the next onlookers will just sift past it and think it could never happen to them.

I forget who's thread it was but they said that they were thinking about either suicide or LL. When they went through LL they realized that all they wanted to do was get it over with and be healthy.

Someone who's 5'11" wanting to get LL is absolutely insane in my eyes. Once they get the limp or the problem they'll wish they listened but i've found it's almost impossible to convince them otherwise when their mind is made up.

funny thing is the same complications could arise for you. just because you are shorter doesn't make the surgery any less risky. People on this forum are insecure about their height so it makes sense there would be a lot of discrimination for average height men to undergo this surgery.
Height neurosis is a real thing regardless of your height, so idc what people on here say. Do your own research, regardless of your height and if you still think the surgery will be worth it for you, then do it. Don't let others insecurities try to dissuade you from this surgery.

Fact is this surgery is done hundreds of thousands of times in the united states for leg length discrepancies with rarely a serious complication. If this surgery was soooooo risky it wouldn't be performed for ll discrepancies in the united states on an otherwise healthy individual. You must do your research and get a good surgeon tho. Don't go to a butcher like guichet, sringari, sarin, monegal. If you want the upmost safety, save up and go to dr. Paley or Rozbruch and do a unilateral surgery for 5-7 cm. Or get TSF frames for external tibias for 3-5 cm with Mahboubian. If you really can't save up that much, then go to dr. parihar, who is a great honest surgeon and recommended by Paley.

[MirinHeight]

If you give me one diary where a patient of dr. paley, rozbruch, mahboubian, or parihar's developed a limp that never recovered, I will give you a cookie.

[myloginacct]

funny thing is the same complications could arise for you. just because you are shorter doesn't make the surgery any less risky. People on this forum are insecure about their height so it makes sense there would be a lot of discrimination for average height men to undergo this surgery.
Height neurosis is a real thing regardless of your height, so idc what people on here say. Do your own research, regardless of your height and if you still think the surgery will be worth it for you, then do it. Don't let others insecurities try to dissuade you from this surgery.

Fact is this surgery is done hundreds of thousands of times in the united states for leg length discrepancies with rarely a serious complication. If this surgery was soooooo risky it wouldn't be performed for ll discrepancies in the united states on an otherwise healthy individual. You must do your research and get a good surgeon tho. Don't go to a butcher like guichet, sringari, sarin, monegal. If you want the upmost safety, save up and go to dr. Paley or Rozbruch and do a unilateral surgery for 5-7 cm. Or get TSF frames for external tibias for 3-5 cm with Mahboubian. If you really can't save up that much, then go to dr. parihar, who is a great honest surgeon and recommended by Paley.

By the way, you're the main (good) example I think of when I think about tall guys who want CLL in this forum. You want this for yourself (not for women), you make sure to do your research properly, you exclude bad doctors, and you don't have any insane amounts in your head. Overall seems to know what you're getting into too, which is the most important part.

[MirinHeight]

By the way, you're the main (good) example I think of when I think about tall guys who want CLL in this forum. You want this for yourself (not for women), you make sure to do your research properly, you exclude bad doctors, and you don't have any insane amounts in your head.

thanks man, i try to tell about docs and research on here because i feel as if a lot of people unfortunately go in this blindly and don't do their own research. Finding a good surgeon should be the #1 priority for people on here. You're health is worth more than the difference in cost between a good surgeon and a butcher.

[Johnson1111]

funny thing is the same complications could arise for you. just because you are shorter doesn't make the surgery any less risky. People on this forum are insecure about their height so it makes sense there would be a lot of discrimination for average height men to undergo this surgery.
Height neurosis is a real thing regardless of your height, so idc what people on here say. Do your own research, regardless of your height and if you still think the surgery will be worth it for you, then do it. Don't let others insecurities try to dissuade you from this surgery.

Fact is this surgery is done hundreds of thousands of times in the united states for leg length discrepancies with rarely a serious complication. If this surgery was soooooo risky it wouldn't be performed for ll discrepancies in the united states on an otherwise healthy individual. You must do your research and get a good surgeon tho. Don't go to a butcher like guichet, sringari, sarin, monegal. If you want the upmost safety, save up and go to dr. Paley or Rozbruch and do a unilateral surgery for 5-7 cm. Or get TSF frames for external tibias for 3-5 cm with Mahboubian. If you really can't save up that much, then go to dr. parihar, who is a great honest surgeon and recommended by Paley.

I mean yes if you have 200k and a couple years to spare US is a great option. The vast majority of people do not have the money to use Paley or Rozbruch. Then you recommend Parihar who only operates on a few people per year. So what's left for everyone else (Which is the vast majority)? A lot of gray area, risks and alleged "butchers"

Yes there might not be many long term complications for those select few doctors. But the ladder is where the majority of the surgeries are done for cosmetics on not only this website but in general statistically, and the ladder is where most of the complications occur.

Doing LL no matter what at 5'11"-6'0" is a stupid idea. I understand height neurosis and peoples needs but it's still objectively stupid as you will have zero discrimination in society due to your height since you're statistically taller than over 70% of people in North America and closer to 80% on a worldwide scale.

What I will agree with is that satisfying our brain with some form of contentment is extremely important to hold onto ones sanity. If LL is one of those things that needs to be done at those heights (For whatever reason, probably botched facts and propaganda that's been given to the person considering in, and usually underlying psychological problems that are undiagnosed) Then I suppose it will help them.

[MirinHeight]

I mean yes if you have 200k and a couple years to spare US is a great option. The vast majority of people do not have the money to use Paley or Rozbruch. Then you recommend Parihar who only operates on a few people per year. So what's left for everyone else (Which is the vast majority)? A lot of gray area, risks and alleged "butchers"

Yes there might not be many long term complications for those select few doctors. But the ladder is where the majority of the surgeries are done for cosmetics on not only this website but in general statistically, and the ladder is where most of the complications occur.

Doing LL no matter what at 5'11"-6'0" is a stupid idea. I understand height neurosis and peoples needs but it's still objectively stupid as you will have zero discrimination in society due to your height since you're statistically taller than over 70% of people in North America and closer to 80% on a worldwide scale.

What I will agree with is that satisfying our brain with some form of contentment is extremely important to hold onto ones sanity. If LL is one of those things that needs to be done at those heights (For whatever reason, probably botched facts and propaganda that's been given to the person considering in, and usually underlying psychological problems that are undiagnosed) Then I suppose it will help them.

cost with dr. pilli (external tibias): 20k euros
cost with dr. parihar (external tibias): $15k
cost with dr. rozbruch with aetna ppo or united healthcare insurance (internal femurs): $55-70k
cost with dr. paley (internal femurs): $95k
cost with dr. mahboubian when doing tsf: $55k

dr. birkholtz is another good option but idk about the conditions in South Africa.

Dr. Parihar's main focus is deformity correction but he does accept cll pts. i have emailed him before and he said we can book a consultation.

your main focus should be to save up for a US surgeon no matter how long it might take you. You also have the option of taking out loans. No other country can match US healthcare and medical staff.

-every male in my family is over 6' with some over 6'3. I have always been the short one in my family so I guess it depends on the origin of your height neurosis and your perspective. I was a great HS football player but didnt get a single scholarship offer due to my height. But my brother is now playing football on scholarship even though i had better stats. He got scholarships due to being 6'2 and good, yet I didn't get a single offer from a division 1 school. This is just one example of the origin of my height neurosis. Obviously, i can't play football anymore with or without LL, but I want my negative mindset of my height and myself to change. This has nothing to do with girls. I actually have a loving gf for 3 years now and girls never been the problem.

--> Also, I will be attending medical school in ~1.5 years.

[Body Builder]

There is no discrimination to average to tall height LLers for me, there is a discrimimation between men who need LL and men who are lunatics and while their height is ok they are willing to do a so risky and expensive surgery to fix somethimg that is not a problem and can accept that they may be ugly or something else that causes them problems and not their height.

That said, I believe that men 5.10 and under have reasons to do LL (the shorter the more significant the reasons) but anything more than that is not accepted, whatever the reason this man says he has.
LL is for men that have a realistic problem in height, not for men who are not ok with their height for no realistic reason. This called madness and of course I am against madmen.