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Author Topic: LATN or Externals only?  (Read 2986 times)

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Bron

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LATN or Externals only?
« on: June 20, 2017, 05:17:43 PM »

Hi guys, I'm planning to have LL (tibia) by early next year but my dilemma is I'm still torn between doing Externals only or LATN, my target is atleast 8cm, here's my pros and cons (atleast in my perspective)

LATN
Pros:
-I will save a lot of time, after lengthening then nail insertion I can go home and resume my normal life and wait till my bones fully consolidate.
Cons:
-I would have to undergo another operation for nail removal
-I have a real skinny legs because I stopped working it out because according to most doctors and veterans it's better to have a skinny legs prior to LL and I want to start working it out again right  after full consolidation because for sure it'll be much more skinny at the same time longer looking, can I work out my legs with weights if the nails are still inside my tibia???

Externals only
Pros:
-I can get back to normal life after consolidation and doesn't have to think about nail removal and have to be worried about any foreign material inside my legs.
Cons:
-It'll take a long time for lengthening and consolidation, It might take me 9-12 months and if unfortunate events happen it might be longer.

What do you think about it guys? I really need some veteran and expert advices as I'm still torn  about what to do exactly, your advices will be much welcomed and appreciated!
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sandman51

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2017, 08:24:27 PM »

8cm for tibias  ::)
that's too much, any respectable dr will allow 5-6cm max
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Body Builder

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2017, 09:58:29 PM »

First of all doing 8cm (at least) in tibias is really a bad decision, so no matter what stick ti a realistic goal like 6-7 cm max.

Furthermore, external only is the best decision for tibias with the only drawback being the time you'll need.
But when you do LL time is the last thing tou should care about so in everything else externals only is better and you'll be over (last surgery) much sooner than LATN.

So sacrifice about 1 year of your life to do 6-7 cm in tibias with an experienced doctor and a good hexapod frame.
This is the best solution.
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doomsday

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2017, 10:06:21 PM »

max 6 cm and LATN - externals ilizarov are   to wear for a year. I know coz i still have one on my right leg :)
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Bron

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2017, 04:26:32 PM »

I appreciate your reply and concern bro, I am aware about the risk and danger of doing 8cm but that's really my target although when I get there I'll still listen to my body and see if I can reach that goal and if not then I'll be happy with 6-7cm gain but I'll still my target is 8cm, I would also want to go for externals only but I'm really not sure if I can afford to have a cage in my legs for 1 year, that'll be so hard but that's really the ideal I'm just not sure if I can really do it that's why I want to have a Plan B if ever which is LATN, I can see that you're a bodybuilder, do you know if I can work out my legs with weight even if I have nails inside it? I want to grow my legs thicker right after LL.
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Bron

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2017, 04:27:41 PM »

you have Ilizarov for a year in your legs? and why is it only just in your right leg?
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KiloKAHN

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2017, 06:38:14 PM »

8 cm of externals will more likely take 16 months for safe frame removal, not 9-12.
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Initial height: 164 cm / ~5'5" (Surgery on 6/25/2014)
Current height: 170 cm / 5'7" (Frames removed 6/29/2015)
External Tibia lengthening performed by Dr Mangal Parihar in Mumbai, India.
My Cosmetic Leg Lengthening Experience

Body Builder

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2017, 07:00:05 PM »

8 cm of externals will more likely take 16 months for safe frame removal, not 9-12.
Not at all. Someone needs about 40-45 days for each cm so you'll need max 1 year for 8cm.
I did 7.5 and I was completely ok at 11 months but I removed fixators at 1 year to be 100% sure
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KiloKAHN

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2017, 07:13:12 PM »

Not at all. Someone needs about 40-45 days for each cm so you'll need max 1 year for 8cm.
I did 7.5 and I was completely ok at 11 months but I removed fixators at 1 year to be 100% sure

For an adult male, 2 months per cm is the usual safe amount to completely eliminate the possibility of even minor bone bending. 1.5 months a cm is more typical for teens. For my 6 cm I was at 10 months and still not cleared for removal.
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Initial height: 164 cm / ~5'5" (Surgery on 6/25/2014)
Current height: 170 cm / 5'7" (Frames removed 6/29/2015)
External Tibia lengthening performed by Dr Mangal Parihar in Mumbai, India.
My Cosmetic Leg Lengthening Experience

Body Builder

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2017, 10:42:43 PM »

For an adult male, 2 months per cm is the usual safe amount to completely eliminate the possibility of even minor bone bending. 1.5 months a cm is more typical for teens. For my 6 cm I was at 10 months and still not cleared for removal.
I still disagree. 1.5 month per cm is the average time any healthy adult needs especially if you lengthen less than 7cm.

But that doesn't mean that many people don't need more time, I am talking about average time.
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LLSouthAmerica

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2017, 02:54:01 AM »

You are both correct, it can go from 1.5 to 2 months per cm of gain on average. That in itself means that for 8 cm it can be anywhere from 12 to 16 months ON AVERAGE. This means half of the people will take longer than that. Plan 1 year and a half for pure external 8 cm (which is too much and may cause you problems which require additional surgery).
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Went from 164 to 170 cm
Former Guichet nail patient

Bron

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2017, 04:20:39 AM »

so went 7.5cm, it means that 7.5cm in tibs is very possible and safe because I really want to go for the maximum I can get at the same time safe, how soon can you start working out your legs with weight? when I say work out I mean squats, leg press etc and not just stretching because I really want to gain muscles right after LL to make it look better.
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onemorefoot

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2017, 04:50:56 AM »

If you lengthen 7.5 cm, you can develop a serious ballerina foot, on average, you May have to be operated in achilles tendon, Max 6, 7.5 cm looks good but your tendons May pay.
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Bander72

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2017, 07:54:26 AM »

If your doing 8 cm or more then you should do pure external as it is much safer.
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Sibirsky

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2017, 04:48:01 PM »

Hi I did 8 cm on tibias via LATN. The results have been great and there were no long term major complications of note, so inherently I may be biased in support of LATN. But anyway I will give additional pros and cons that most people tend to overlook

Pros of LATN/ Cons of externals
-Risking contractures getting worse: In the frames, the pins and screws attached to your bone limit your muscle movement; this is fact. So lets say you develop contractures with LATN, once your done lengthening, they've inserted the nail and they've removed the frames, your muscles are now free to stretch out and remove the contractures. You could still do this at the end of lengthening with externals but it would be far harder because the frames limit the capacity for your muscles to move and stretch. In the Long term this may not be good as your muscles might be too stiff after frame removal to stretch it effectively

-Less time in isolation: Tough choice: do you want to be seen publicly in the frames or be isolated away from the eyes of people you know, either by staying alone or being in a foreign country? Either way LATN will significantly decrease the amount of 'downtime' you have to spend. Do consider the prolong mental health effects of being away/ isolated from your friends and family in the name of secrecy

-Daily routine: Depending on your doctor, he will either allow you to bathe normally daily but also do daily pin site care or not allow you to wet your legs and allow less frequent pinsite care. Either way, do account for the fact you have to spend upwards of 1 year going through this time consuming routine, whereas with LATN you'd probably have to only do this as long as you have the exfix

- Better bone healing: Dont take my word for it. You should read the study by Dr Rozbruch comparing LATN to externals only. The bone healing index is better in LATN than externals only
(about 2 times faster). This would lower the risk for refractires, especially considering you can keep the nails in you as long as needed.


Cons of LATN/ pros of external

-Cost: the nails and extra surgery will cost more. In my case, if I chose externals only the cost totally would have been halved. Even now I need to consider how much the nail removal cost will be in the future

- Knee pain: this is a well known risk but do consider this; even for non-LL cases like distal tibial fractures and leg deformity correction, using an intramedullary nail has become standard practice in orthopaedics. So this should be a minor risk in the hands of an experienced surgeon and hence preventable if you go to a reputable doctor and not some quack

-Scars: More scars in LATN. Not much of a problem if you're hairy

-Loss of height during nailing surgery: Yes this is true. When I developed contractures during lengthening, my surgeon warned me that the tight muscles could pull my bones together as they remove the fixators and insert the nail, causing a loss of height lengthened. Thankfully in my case it did not happen: I lengthened 8 cm and had 8 cm at the end of lengthening confirmed by X-Rays. But still, do consider the possibility of this


My view is that LATN is better. I can't imagine the mental toll in being  stuck in frames for so long, a year or more,  alone and isolated from the ones that I know. I'd very much prefer to recover faster and return back to normal life in less than 6 months which is possible with LATN.
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176 cm before
184 cm after
-Walking, squatting, jogging slowly but not yet running
-Advocate of average height people wanting to be taller

Bron

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2017, 07:48:20 AM »

Sibirsky,

I'm also wondering why a lot of people thinks that 8cm is not possible and there might be a lot of complications if ever you'll reach it, although I really appreciate the people for their concern and they only like the best and safe for me, but I also read a lot of successful diaries who reached 8cm (sometimes more) and so far they're doing well as far as I know, is it really that risky to target 8cm? because honestly that's my target as I'm short and only 165cm at most, If I'm going to spend a lot of money and time then I would want to reach the maximum cms that I can, doing 2 segments is also an option but if I can do 8cm alone in 1 segment then that'll be enough for me, you have a really good point on just spending shorter time if I'll do LATN and that's also the reason why I'm leaning more on it instead of spending a year or more for lengthening and consolidating, I read your diary and it's quite amazing and it seems to me that you spent very minimal time on everything (lengthening, consolidating and walking normally) and I'm still wondering how you accomplished all that with a really short time but good job on you brother! my question since you did LATN is can you work out with weights while still having nails inside your legs? I believe you also want to bulk up your legs as you said in your diary because I'm sure it's really skinny after LL, how soon can you do it? and isnt it dangerous? your reply will be highly appreciated brother
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1683131665

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2017, 09:51:40 AM »

Studies have shown that 20 percent is safer and you can measure your length.
Height 160cm tibia 28-33cm
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Sibirsky

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2017, 12:07:06 PM »

Sibirsky,

I'm also wondering why a lot of people thinks that 8cm is not possible and there might be a lot of complications if ever you'll reach it, although I really appreciate the people for their concern and they only like the best and safe for me, but I also read a lot of successful diaries who reached 8cm (sometimes more) and so far they're doing well as far as I know, is it really that risky to target 8cm? because honestly that's my target as I'm short and only 165cm at most, If I'm going to spend a lot of money and time then I would want to reach the maximum cms that I can, doing 2 segments is also an option but if I can do 8cm alone in 1 segment then that'll be enough for me, you have a really good point on just spending shorter time if I'll do LATN and that's also the reason why I'm leaning more on it instead of spending a year or more for lengthening and consolidating, I read your diary and it's quite amazing and it seems to me that you spent very minimal time on everything (lengthening, consolidating and walking normally) and I'm still wondering how you accomplished all that with a really short time but good job on you brother! my question since you did LATN is can you work out with weights while still having nails inside your legs? I believe you also want to bulk up your legs as you said in your diary because I'm sure it's really skinny after LL, how soon can you do it? and isnt it dangerous? your reply will be highly appreciated brother

Hi I'll get back to you on this soon
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176 cm before
184 cm after
-Walking, squatting, jogging slowly but not yet running
-Advocate of average height people wanting to be taller

Sibirsky

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2017, 05:25:56 PM »

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176 cm before
184 cm after
-Walking, squatting, jogging slowly but not yet running
-Advocate of average height people wanting to be taller

doomsday

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2017, 06:02:39 PM »

It's always better to gather information from doctors and then  patients
http://www.llrs.org/PDFs/Annual%20Meeting%20Presentations/Friday%20Meeting/13.Lee.pdf
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Bron

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2017, 06:41:07 PM »

It's always better to gather information from doctors and then  patients
http://www.llrs.org/PDFs/Annual%20Meeting%20Presentations/Friday%20Meeting/13.Lee.pdf

hi doomsday,

I can't seem to open the link, would really love to open it, what do you think is the worst complication for lengthening too much like for 8cm?
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doomsday

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Re: LATN or Externals only?
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2017, 06:46:06 PM »

use different browser
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