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[Shortie]

you think so??? I'm not going to die or anything in the next few days...


i feel i wouldn't be taken seriously... my issue is definitely large, but i can survive until monday... id be surprised if they sent anyone to me... and again, I'm going to cringe  when i explain that I'm here because of a girl, and she left me.....  i was stupid

just tell them the truth and they will help u I am sure about that

[tx1111]

Sup crimsomtide. 

Sucks that you are going through all that with your ex and health issues. If my input means anything to you i say just go to the embassy and tell them whats the deal. You dont have to state it is because of a girl. Theres many scenarios of why you could be stranded(poor planing, maybe a relative was helping you aout and they got their own issues).  But your definetly gonna have to tell them everything else.  It will probably be very embarrasing. But think of all the   youve had to endure. You dont want to prolong that or put all your progress at risk just because it might be embarrasing to tell some people you will never see again and who probably has dealt with other cases that can be considered out of the ordinary.

That being said i will be doing LL soon so i am trying to learn from your experience and not repeat what i percieve to be mistakes on your part.   Even then i know theres going to be issues that i didnt account for and i hope i can apply the advice everyone else and I have given you.

Take care man. Just know youll be looking back to these days as a memory soon.

[crimsontide]

T'y guys...

If you're sure they'll help, I'm gonna call

Yes, I'll be okay eventually in a few months I guess, but I don't want the months to be torture. . I'll have to call

My only issue is the ballerina. ..  my knees can bend,etc and I was walking fine before when I didn't have ballerina..

I might wait until Monday to call though

[123]

Hey there, just wanted to say that ballerina can be easily solved with a lot of physio, just try to do this exercise (http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/calf-stretch) as good as you can.
It will hurt like hell, but it's better than having ballerina.

When you will see blood coming out of your pins, you will know that you've been doing enough physio
It will take you maybe 2-3 weeks to resolve it, if you stretch for 1 hour a day.

[crimsontide]

13, mine is pretty bad

i can put my heels on the floor, but when my legs are bent 90 degrees, maybe 4 cm of ballerina... i don't think  physic by itself is gonna cure this in  a few weeks, maybe combo of release and some physio... I'm gonna try the exercise.. I'm been nervous of pin pain,bleeding but i guess its normal if i get it

i notice my feet look atrocious though.... extremely dry, not swollen, but darker...  partly due to not cleaning, but very  scaly... dr franz said though its pretty normal


my   pinky toes look clubbed almost now that i look, but i think i just never really paid attention to my toes before, so i think its ok

i can easily stand now, except not having walked for 2 weeks, my calves got very tight, so walking straight is ok, but turning, no way.... I'm 4 cm on my toes and achilles is very tight..... if i can get a discount with dr franz, I'm heading to pretoria, 100%%%%%

if not, I'm stuck here for a bit, unless the my embassy can somehow fast track my visa to india....

the  guy  who was supposed to help still hasn't come, so this qualifies as an emergency

[123]

If you feet are dry, just wash them more often and use some lotion, it's nothing to worry about

And don't give up because you have ballerina, even if it's really bad. I had horrible ballerina and got rid of it with brutal physio, you don't need a surgery for that, you need will and some time.

Don't do just "some physio", try 1+ hour of streching a day for 2 weeks and you will se A LOT of  progression. I don't think you want or even can handle another operation, because you seem really tired and depressed.

[crimsontide]

133

i didn't realize you were speaking from experience

so you had it in both feet too??? did you feel the ams when you walked??? turning being very difficult??? and how are you walking now?

[123]

I only had problems with my right leg, because I didnt exercised as much as with my left one, because it hurt. But when I realized i had terrible ballerina, I streched even though I had horrible pain.

Now I'm 5 months post OP and can walk unaided (I lengthented 6cm external tibia). But only because i streched like a maniac! Don't be lazy

[crimsontide]

do you still have frames on??? 5 months post op   unaided sounds good

[123]

I still have the frames on, it sucks a bit, but time will pass

Also internal nails and plates suck d***, you can get permanent knee pain from them. Just keep your head up, I've been through similiar things as you and I can tell you this is only temporary

[crimsontide]

123

i dont think theres knee pain with plating, pretty sure about this... i really appreciate hearing from you though

i tend to think of worst case scenarios, such as never walking again, though i know thats maybe a .5 % possibility.... just sucks... i will definitely get the release to cure this ballerina though... i don't see a downside to it... pretty much all of the top drs do it routinely when working with tobias, and none i have contacted seem to be concerned if i get it

[Wannabegiant]

The thing with plating though from what i understand after reading a few pubmed studies, is that you wont be able to walk right away on your legs without the frames if you get plates right now. I read a study which claimed plating reduced the time in frames on average (these test patients had lengthened slightly over 3 cm only) from ca 6 months in frames external only, to 4.5 months in frames with plating. The standard plates arent strong enough to carry the body weight on their own until you get a certain ammount of callus formation.

and since you did around 7 cm, i still think you would need the frames for maybe 3 more months at least if you got plating now. Its still a good idea to get plates for you considering that doctors say 1.5-2 months per cm is average for exfix. And since you havent been walking much and not eating well either as well as lengthening at a fast pace, i think its more likely to heal at ca 2 months/cm. that would mean that you have ca 11 months left in frames if you did exfix only. At least according to the math, maybe it the healing speeds up exponentially as you get more mobile, but it would still be a long ass time in frames without plates.

[crimsontide]

mmm,  i don't think... i know the study you're referring to... but I'm pretty sure i can get plating now

i definitely don't think it would be 2 months per cm... I'm not really concerned about bone growth, as i heal well... it's this ballerina

but i tend to agree with you.... i do not like these frames, they are  really heavy, even though they are smaller.. i guess that's a good thing, as i think  a jeep could run over my leg and this frame would not break, it's really strong... but it is heavy, and my right leg especially,  when i bend my leg, it just feels so tight from the pins and bolts,  like its trading, pulling, pushing,,,etc... i noticed a rod was slightly bent... I'm sure it was from the time i was on the walker, and that nutty girl hit me, and i had to move quickly..

though i think inside it is straight...  the middle rod was always at an angle


basically... i can lift my legs up at the knee if sitting, can easily stand and walk with walker,etc if no ballerina... I'm not sure i could stand without walker...  since i can't put my heels on the ground,i lose so much push off force... can't get nearly the same amount of force trying to stand up on your toes.... i might have lengthened 7.5, not sure, was thinking of 8.... in the end, it won't matter, as long as you don't do an insane amount, and to me, this is my only time to get taller, so i might as well max it out....... i will never get femurs done... this is it for me...

life is too short to do this again

[Wannabegiant]

mmm,  i don't think... i know the study you're referring to... but I'm pretty sure i can get plating now

i definitely don't think it would be 2 months per cm... I'm not really concerned about bone growth, as i heal well... it's this ballerina

but i tend to agree with you.... i do not like these frames, they are  really heavy, even though they are smaller.. i guess that's a good thing, as i think  a jeep could run over my leg and this frame would not break, it's really strong... but it is heavy, and my right leg especially,  when i bend my leg, it just feels so tight from the pins and bolts,  like its trading, pulling, pushing,,,etc... i noticed a rod was slightly bent... I'm sure it was from the time i was on the walker, and that nutty girl hit me, and i had to move quickly..

though i think inside it is straight...  the middle rod was always at an angle


basically... i can lift my legs up at the knee if sitting, can easily stand and walk with walker,etc if no ballerina... I'm not sure i could stand without walker...  since i can't put my heels on the ground,i lose so much push off force... can't get nearly the same amount of force trying to stand up on your toes.... i might have lengthened 7.5, not sure, was thinking of 8.... in the end, it won't matter, as long as you don't do an insane amount, and to me, this is my only time to get taller, so i might as well max it out....... i will never get femurs done... this is it for me...

life is too short to do this again

Yeah you can get plating now like i already mentioned but im pretty sure you wouldnt be able to put full weight on your legs without frames at this point even with plates. As plating only reduces times in frames, it doesnt remove consolidation phase. I think you would need to wait a few months before you can remove the frames regardless, im just saying this so you wont get dissappointed later.

And consider how bad it went for the other patient we both have been into contact with, the main reason he didnt heal fast at all was because of ballerina in one of his feet and the lack of walking. Unless you are one of those wolverine type healers like Rgkey, id say 2 months/cm seems likely considering your situation. And even if it was 1.5 months/per cm. 7 cm would be 10.5 months minus the 3 you have already waited, so 7.5 months left if your healing is on the faster side. (plating can reduce it further but you still need to wait some months i think)

just trying to be realistic here.

Also, when you reach lengthening at ammounts of 7.5 or more, then every bit of difference can mean a lot in terms of how well you will be able to recover. You are already past the optimal and safe lengthening limit though so i can understand going for another 0.5.

[crimsontide]

i think our friend who hasn't healed well is a very unique case...  he lengthened only 4.,5 cm and has had frames on 11 months.....  might end up being more... i think its his bad luck unfortunately... not any ballerina that caused him these issues... I'm also going to get rid of the ballerina this week... he  never considered surgery and has had this issue a year now basically

at this point, here is how i think of it... ill be able to walk   fine again....  i mean i don't really see anyone that does not have a normal goat after they recover, even guys doing 7-9 cm, and i think medium  saw people do more....... and all can walk okay... so wanna get the most out of it but get release and plating done very soon... i don't think id want nailing, as guys seems to have knee issues with it, though  idk

if i have plating and frames on at the same time, i should be able to walk easily I'm  guessing, as my legs would be very strong.... would have frames and plating to help support me... though maybe I'm wrong

[Wannabegiant]

i think our friend who hasn't healed well is a very unique case...  he lengthened only 4.,5 cm and has had frames on 11 months.....  might end up being more... i think its his bad luck unfortunately... not any ballerina that caused him these issues... I'm also going to get rid of the ballerina this week... he  never considered surgery and has had this issue a year now basically

at this point, here is how i think of it... ill be able to walk   fine again....  i mean i don't really see anyone that does not have a normal goat after they recover, even guys doing 7-9 cm, and i think medium  saw people do more....... and all can walk okay... so wanna get the most out of it but get release and plating done very soon... i don't think id want nailing, as guys seems to have knee issues with it, though  idk

if i have plating and frames on at the same time, i should be able to walk easily I'm  guessing, as my legs would be very strong.... would have frames and plating to help support me... though maybe I'm wrong

Its unique, but he clearly states that he thinks the majority of problems is because of his one leg where he has ballerina, and his doctor seems to think so to because he was allowed to remove one of the frames already, the one on his leg without ballerina, but he chose to wait because it would make it very difficult to walk since he needs to put most weight on his framed leg if he removes one, and that framed leg has ballerina.

Also regardless if he is a special case, bone regeneration of 2 months/cm is not unique, it is within the average time requirement.
The release will be good for that reason though, but at the same time it will weaken your tendons permanently.

Yeah pretty much all patients are able to walk again after surgery, but most patients want to be able to do more than just walk, they want to be as close athletically and in terms of mobility as they where pre LL. And its much more likely to reach that the smaller the ammount you lengthen. Also lengthening at a faster speed can potentially also be detrimental to recovery.

With the plates, it will reduce the time in frames, but the plates are not as strong as the nails, so you either need the frames for some more months, or walk in crutches for a long time after frame removal.

Btw, technically if you can walk now if it wasnt for the ballerina, then the frames will be able to hold your weight regardless if you have plates or not. So if you got a release but no plating you would be able to walk just as well. But the plating would reduce the time in frames.

[crimsontide]

yes i can walk with the frames easily, i just don't now because i can walk straight only, since I'm on my toes...   turning the walker on my toes just is too awkward, and puts pressure on knees, etc... bt i can easily get up with walker, walk, etc....no pain... except for the discomfort of the ballerina

as far as athletic recovery... everyone seems to eventually recover the same amount... not referring to those that have done 15 or more cm, etc.. but truthfully, nothing I've seen   says to me suggests those that lengthened more  ended up worse off...  they took longer to recover, but in the end, i don't see much difference

medium, sweden, rgkey, etc... all these guys seem to be able to  pretty much do  the same things as before....

i like to lift weights, but here is the truth... i have not ran in years.. i mean maybe i jog  a few seconds once or twice a year....so i doubt id even notice a difference in how i run, as i simply do not run....

about tendon being weakened permanently.... i guess maybe in theory, but none of the drs i've spoken  has even brought it up, or  said even that it's a bad idea... and I've spoken to some of the best..... so  i don't think it is really an issue....


i want the frames off because the frames themselves contribute to to ballerina,  are the reason my feet are so dry now,and  they are insanely uncomfortable...... i mean really bad..... and the tearing, and   pressure from the pins is no fun either... these frames must weigh 8-10 kilos  per leg....maybe more.....

[Wannabegiant]

yes i can walk with the frames easily, i just don't now because i can walk straight only, since I'm on my toes...   turning the walker on my toes just is too awkward, and puts pressure on knees, etc... bt i can easily get up with walker, walk, etc....no pain... except for the discomfort of the ballerina

as far as athletic recovery... everyone seems to eventually recover the same amount... not referring to those that have done 15 or more cm, etc.. but truthfully, nothing I've seen   says to me suggests those that lengthened more  ended up worse off...  they took longer to recover, but in the end, i don't see much difference

medium, sweden, rgkey, etc... all these guys seem to be able to  pretty much do  the same things as before....

i like to lift weights, but here is the truth... i have not ran in years.. i mean maybe i jog  a few seconds once or twice a year....so i doubt id even notice a difference in how i run, as i simply do not run....

about tendon being weakened permanently.... i guess maybe in theory, but none of the drs i've spoken  has even brought it up, or  said even that it's a bad idea... and I've spoken to some of the best..... so  i don't think it is really an issue....


i want the frames off because the frames themselves contribute to to ballerina,  are the reason my feet are so dry now,and  they are insanely uncomfortable...... i mean really bad..... and the tearing, and   pressure from the pins is no fun either... these frames must weigh 8-10 kilos  per leg....maybe more.....

Youre definitely wrong about the athletic recovery, everybody does not recover the same ammount. It varies a lot between people who lengthen the same ammount, and its common sense that those who lengthen less recover better in general, its just physics. The more the muscles are stretched the weaker they get, otherwise there wouldnt be a safe limit which doctors suggest is around 10-15% of the original bone length. This basically confirms that the less you lengthen the better you will recover, ie the maximum potential of your recovery will be higher the less you lengthen. So yes those who lengthen more end up worse in general in the end compared to those who lengthen less.

Now it depends on the individual how much they will notice their loss of athletic ability, so if you arent into sports then i doubt it will mean much to you.

Medium has recovered well, but he confirmed that he has less agility compared to before the surgery. Sweden claims to be at 50% now compared to pre LL, and he had had a long time to recover already. Rgkey has just started recovering, but right now he cannot run, and claims that walking is significantly more difficult than before.

Tendons get weaker from release surgery according to research and tests, now they an recover a bit but most likely not completely, and you yourself already confirmed that Dr Bagirov was against you doing a tendon release, so not all doctors recommend it.

[crimsontide]

dr bagirov is against lon too, and internal, etc, etc

dr bagirov is a good dr, but he is against a lot of things that  most others drs are for

i don't like to say this... but swedens issue was going to sarin... but even then, he says he should be fully recovered... i'm not into martial arts, so that aspect wouldn't mean much to me... i enjoy riding  motor bikes

medium seems fine to me... again,,, you can expect some loss of agility if you lengthen 4 cm or 3 even.... i'm not convinced that theres much of a difference to be honest....   medium can chime in, but from everything i've read, he seems content and able to do things he did before

rgkey.... im not surprised he has  some issues running and walking, but  i doubt its primarily because of the amount he lengthened.... his right leg is severely bent.... it almost looks like the bone consolidated at a 45 degree angle... it looks painful... and he  did external only...


I'm even considering latn now, as the recovery time is dramatically quicker with lon/latn... something like .8 months per cm for recovery time.... it actually increases bone regenerate...though knee pain is making wary...

[Medium Drink Of Water]

The agility loss is a matter of physics.  Longer things are harder to lift up and move around, which goes for legs or any other object.

[Wannabegiant]

dr bagirov is against lon too, and internal, etc, etc

dr bagirov is a good dr, but he is against a lot of things that  most others drs are for

i don't like to say this... but swedens issue was going to sarin... but even then, he says he should be fully recovered... i'm not into martial arts, so that aspect wouldn't mean much to me... i enjoy riding  motor bikes

medium seems fine to me... again,,, you can expect some loss of agility if you lengthen 4 cm or 3 even.... i'm not convinced that theres much of a difference to be honest....   medium can chime in, but from everything i've read, he seems content and able to do things he did before

rgkey.... im not surprised he has  some issues running and walking, but  i doubt its primarily because of the amount he lengthened.... his right leg is severely bent.... it almost looks like the bone consolidated at a 45 degree angle... it looks painful... and he  did external only...


I'm even considering latn now, as the recovery time is dramatically quicker with lon/latn... something like .8 months per cm for recovery time.... it actually increases bone regenerate...though knee pain is making wary...

No, the loss of agility for a patient who 3 or 4 cm will be significantly less noticeable compared to someone who lengthens 7 or 8 cm, thats just scientific fact. Why are you in denial about this? You chose to lengthen more but there are definite drawbacks to it, permament ones.

Sweden has said himself that Sarin did a good job with his surgery, and that most of his problems are due to lengthening to much, he recommends lengthening 5 cm at most for tibias.

In terms of Rgkey, you cant really use his case for your argument since he is so early in recovery phase. One thing we do know is that if he did less lengthening he would be far more mobile at this point.

Also it doesnt really matter if Latn or Lon improves recovery speed per cm, because those methods are designed to remove the frames when lengthening phase is done regardless of the callus regen at that point. And you will either need to keep the nail inside forever or remove them after a year. Also, it will still take a lot of time with 7 cm until you can walk normally after frame removal and nail insertion.

[Wannabegiant]

The agility loss is a matter of physics.  Longer things are harder to lift up and move around, which goes for legs or any other object.

Yes, which basically means the longer you make the leg, ie the more cms you add, the more agility you lose.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

It's not that bad though.  I've got maybe 80-90% of my previous agility.

[crimsontide]

if i got nail inserted this week, ill be walking fine by oct.... instead of    being in agony with frames..... though my primary concern is   getting the release

I'm about 90 kilo now or so, maybe a little less

i like sweden, but  we know dr sarin is a hack..... and sweden is now talking about getting femurs done.... how bad can his issues be if he is thinking about  doing this again

  i'm not a dr, but i can  say with some confidence, that rgkey's severely bent leg   is harming his walking ability.....

if lath  decreases  recovery time to around.8 months per cm, that sounds ok to me, to be honest.... though I'm still hesitant because of knee pain

medium, sweden,.. anyone that has gotten lon or lath... please post here how your knees fail, and if you do have psi, how bad is it, and if you regret  doing it instead of external

[Medium Drink Of Water]

When I walk, I can actually feel where the scar tissue is, where the patellar tendon was cut and stretched open.  It gives me the sensation of stiffness in my knees.

When I kneel on a hard surface, the nerves below the kneecap, right where the insertion scars are, are hypersensitive and I actually feel pain there.

If these two problems sound okay to you, then proceed with LATN.  Personally I wish I'd done external-only.  Since external-only involves less surgery, I might have been able to bargain with the institute to let me stay a few extra months there for free.  Although all I wanted was OUT OF THAT HOSPITAL as soon as I possibly could at the time, now I wish I'd endured a few more months of discomfort in order to have avoided those two permanent problems.

How much standing have you been doing lately?  If you really start working hard with standing and weight-bearing, you might not even need the release.

[crimsontide]

so you when walk, you feel it, but no pain??? but on your knees, you actually feel  pain?


have done a little standing.. ill try more now... though  can't turn my walker  on my toes

[Medium Drink Of Water]

That's right.

Don't worry about turning your walker.  Just stand and stay still.  Maybe bend forward a little at the waist and let your head hang.

[crimsontide]

gonna try that..... feel so achey... ugh.... sucks... but i guess its normal

[crimsontide]

after talking with dr franz, i'm definitely  going to get plating, instead of nails... if i get frames off soon

the knee pain issues with the nails, it's just too risky in my opinion.... i don't wanna risk permanent knee pain... i forgot to ask him though if the laying has to be removed eventually

[TRS]

Are you coming to SA?

[crimsontide]

rising... I'm not sure.... i like dr franz,.. actually, he's the ONLY dr that  consistently answers emails....if i just get a release, i think yes,ill be in sa... but the price for plating,etc is too much for me i think... so depends now on  what I decide