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[MrHandsome]

Hey guys I am 22 years old but I have used an aromatase inhibitor for a few years and so my growth plates are still open. I am very short at 5'7.25 measured evening height. Now although I have been lifting for 6 years straight I am still a small guy as well because of my small skull and narrow clavicles.

I still look very young and am currently unable to grow a beard even. I am wondering if Hgh used over the next 3 years along with testosterone will help me grow a little bit. Please help this is really ruining my sex life. Unfortunately height is one of those unfortunate traits that casts a negative light over other otherwise beneficial qualities.

[vegeta24]

Sorry it won't work. Wrist from what I understand are one of the first bones to fuse. 80% of clavicle width for males is done at age 12. You're far too old to get any gain at all. HGH really needs to be used before puberty/early puberty and many people don't seem to understand that for height/shoulder gains that is. There's no reason for you to use HGH along with testosterone at this point if you're looking for height gains, plus it's far too expensive you'd spend less money getting LL external tibias. So no. Testosterone alone should help with beard growth.

There are solutions for increasing wrist size that I have seen, some surgeons offer fat grafts to the wrist which make the circumference bigger but does not change the bone size.

For shoulders there are deltoid implants allowing for a few cm's of width and or fat transfer to shoulders(would not do fat transfer to shoulders since it will get lost over time).

Or clavicle lengthening which no surgeon offers cosmetically except one.

[0184946]

I am very short at 5'7.25 measured evening height.

this is the bs that im talking about

[MrHandsome]

this is the bs that im talking about

Ok so my height in the morning is about 5'8.25 and in the evening it's 5'7.25. My wrist size is about 7 inches and skull size is about 24 inches I reckon.

Now I agree with vegeta24 about hgh not working but I am planning to run it for 3 years straight along with test at a high dosage. My puberty was stunted so I am not fully developed and I look about 5 years younger than my age.

Honestly my height is unacceptable but with lifts that bring me up to 5'10 I am satisfied. We will see what happens to be honest.

[TIBIKE200]

If you have 7 inches wrists you don't have small frame.. Unless you are fat

[MrHandsome]

Ok so I don't have a small frame but it could be bigger honestly.

[TIBIKE200]

what size shirts do you wear?

 Edit: I mean shirts that fit perfectly well with the sleeves beggining exactly at the shoulder joint and not those oversized shirts where the sleeves begin mid arm

[MrHandsome]

what size shirts do you wear?

 Edit: I mean shirts that fit perfectly well with the sleeves beggining exactly at the shoulder joint and not those oversized shirts where the sleeves begin mid arm

Medium shirts are too tight and large shirts are too loose initially but fit well after they shrink from drying

[TIBIKE200]

Same as me. Welcome to the medium/large frame range. As again, if you are not fat and are too wide for an M shirt than your shoulders are wide

[MrHandsome]

Same as me. Welcome to the medium/large frame range. As again, if you are not fat and are too wide for an M shirt than your shoulders are wide

Yeah I'm definitely not fat but honestly I would like my frame to be a little bigger. I think vegeta24 is right in that hgh probably will not help with my frame at this age but with that being said it's worth an attempt anyway to see what happens.

[TIBIKE200]

Just military press and bench press your way to a bigger frame. If you are taking HGH it will farther improve your results (I believe as I have never taken hormones in my life)

[Body Builder]

So after all it seems that you don't have small frame as you mentioned and your height is not so short as you think it is.
You are a healthy, less than average height, man like most of us in this forum.
So it is logical to want to be taller but not to say that you are not fully developed because you are.

For your case, especially at your age, hormones won't give you any more height at all.
So try LL or accept your height and body.
There is not any other choice for you.

[vegeta24]

MrHandsome you do realize you taking test and HGH at the same time will actually close your growth plates? One of the reasons steroids should not be taken pre growth plates being closed is the fact that high test will stunt your growth. What you are suggesting is pointless and is a waste of money. Test will work for the beard and making you more muscular. HGH is not going to do what you want it to do at this age at all. If you don't want your growth plates to fuse right now don't take anything at all.

Also using wrist size to measure frame size is not accurate all the time. My dad has 6 inch wrists and wide shoulders, I see this very often. Wrist size usually doesn't mean anything most of the time you want to know your frame size measure your shoulders and don't just assume if you have small wrist your frame is small. You could have 7 inch wrists but your frame can still be small, even 8 inch wrists.

HGH is seriously one of the most overhyped hormones. Only beneficial if you're an athlete, competitive bodybuilder, deficient in it pre puberty or want to use it to feel younger at a later age. It won't change a thing with any of your long bones, guaranteed. Save your money for LL or something of use.

[asfastaslight]

MrHandsome you do realize you taking test and HGH at the same time will actually close your growth plates? One of the reasons steroids should not be taken pre growth plates being closed is the fact that high test will stunt your growth. What you are suggesting is pointless and is a waste of money. Test will work for the beard and making you more muscular. HGH is not going to do what you want it to do at this age at all. If you don't want your growth plates to fuse right now don't take anything at all.

Also using wrist size to measure frame size is not accurate all the time. My dad has 6 inch wrists and wide shoulders, I see this very often. Wrist size usually doesn't mean anything most of the time you want to know your frame size measure your shoulders and don't just assume if you have small wrist your frame is small. You could have 7 inch wrists but your frame can still be small, even 8 inch wrists.

HGH is seriously one of the most overhyped hormones. Only beneficial if you're an athlete, competitive bodybuilder, deficient in it pre puberty or want to use it to feel younger at a later age. It won't change a thing with any of your long bones, guaranteed. Save your money for LL or something of use.

I disagree do huge amounts of fore arm work outs inject HGH into your hand muscles.

[682]

I disagree do huge amounts of fore arm work outs inject HGH into your hand muscles.

Please don't give medical advice on things you have absolutely no idea about, especially the administration of hormonal drugs. Fingers do not contain muscles (other than arrector pili). The muscles that move the finger joints are in the lower palm and forearm. The long tendons that deliver motion from the forearm muscles may be observed to move under the skin at the wrist and on the back of the hand. HGH would increase bone density and some growth leading to an increase in size in bone in the hands, not muscle.

Advocating the use of HGH and injecting straight into your 'hand muscles' with no actual understanding behind the introduction of hormones into the human body and the effects it has is at best ignorant and at worst dangerous and you can disagree with user vegeta24 but he is correct, the use of HGH will not deliver the results he desires. People throw around and recommend HGH as if it was vitamin tablets and advocate very irresponsible usage that can lead to major issues down the line - please do your own in depth research of what it can and can't do.

[IwannaBeTaller]

If I had eaten more during puberty (wasn't malnourished) and done more sports instead of mostly playing Xbox, would I have gotten a wider frame, a bigger ribcage and thicker wrists, or are these bone sizes mostly genetic?

[682]

If I had eaten more during puberty (wasn't malnourished) and done more sports instead of mostly playing Xbox, would I have gotten a wider frame, a bigger ribcage and thicker wrists, or are these bone sizes mostly genetic?

Unless you were literally starved for the vast majority of your childhood and adolescent years, the chances are that you weren't malnourished. Many African countries in drought, warfare etc. have children who are actually malnourished and many men there are very tall/athletically built. If it has an effect, it's only substantial when they are truly malnourished and even then, the vast majority of height and build is still genetic (aside from administering drugs/medical issues such as pituitary gland tumors that may affect it). Could you have been bigger built? Possibly, although unlikely and likely not noticeably so.

[Jack1066]

Trust me, I used to think this. I did the whole works- I had a drug problem as a teenager, I underate for most of my teen years (I mean, I never ate lunch at school because I had no money), had depression (which also spoiled my appetite), didn't sleep properly (during my growth spurt), didn't get out in the sun, didn't do exercise...

I had the luck to meet a student at my university recently doing his PhD in bone development. Well, I can't remember exactly what it was on, but it was something very similar. He put all my worries to rest.

Basically, yes, it does have an effect, but the body's catch-up strategies for growth are pretty remarkable. Apparently there are all sorts of ways in which it compensates for deficiencies in something or other.

If it's a matter of some normal, unhealthy habits, (frequently missing sleep, not getting enough calcium, binge drinking on weekends) you might have lost a few millimetres off your maximum potential height (if that). Nothing at all noticeable.

If it's a matter of being very unhealthy (like really, very unhealthy), then perhaps you could lose an inch or so at the most. But nothing that would really make a difference.

If you have anorexia or are badly malnourished during a growth spurt, then yes, you can lose a few inches- perhaps up to 4 or 5. But this is starvation, not missing meals or whatever.

[TIBIKE200]

Trust me, I used to think this. I did the whole works- I had a drug problem as a teenager, I underate for most of my teen years (I mean, I never ate lunch at school because I had no money), had depression (which also spoiled my appetite), didn't sleep properly (during my growth spurt), didn't get out in the sun, didn't do exercise...

I had the luck to meet a student at my university recently doing his PhD in bone development. Well, I can't remember exactly what it was on, but it was something very similar. He put all my worries to rest.

Basically, yes, it does have an effect, but the body's catch-up strategies for growth are pretty remarkable. Apparently there are all sorts of ways in which it compensates for deficiencies in something or other.

If it's a matter of some normal, unhealthy habits, (frequently missing sleep, not getting enough calcium, binge drinking on weekends) you might have lost a few millimetres off your maximum potential height (if that). Nothing at all noticeable.

If it's a matter of being very unhealthy (like really, very unhealthy), then perhaps you could lose an inch or so at the most. But nothing that would really make a difference.

If you have anorexia or are badly malnourished during a growth spurt, then yes, you can lose a few inches- perhaps up to 4 or 5. But this is starvation, not missing meals or whatever.

 What does your friend said about special diets like veganism/vegetarianism? Do those have any effect?

 Btw, there was a docummentary yesterday about toxic compounds found in almost every stuff we eat, wear or walk on. It was about human males becoming less and less manly (physiologically speaking).
  Out of nowhere came a part about height and proportions. And indeed this last genertion is tall but it's due to these compounds which mess up the male endocrinologic system making him produce less testosterone which results in more height. What was fascinating is that the research was done on a couple of thousends Italians who are today 19-21 years old. All in all they are 2-3cm taller than those born 5-10 years before them. But was struck the researchers is that these guys although taller, were "shorter" in torso (Actually much shorter almost looking like having kleinefelter syndrome), shoulder width similar to that of a woman and also an average dck size which is 1-2cm shorter. Also less quality sperm and such. Basically, future generation guys are going to look like guys walking on stils with short dcks (That's what the documentary showed) and also unable to bear children or at the very least have a lot of difficulty to get a woman pregnant.
  Basically, That these "men" are not really men but a step towards becoming females

 This would also explain why immigrants from short countries have much taller sons. These compounds are not hormones but are synthetic ones found in stuff like drink cans, Anti-wet clothes and such

[IwannaBeTaller]

^ Thanks guys. Hopefully this will help to put my suspicion of having stunted my growth to rest.

To top it off, here's a picture of me at 12 years. Malnourished? You decide.

http://i.imgur.com/Mn3AxlA.jpg

[Jack1066]

Don't know, but I doubt it. If I see him again, I'll ask.

Then again, 2-3 cm is a massive gain in 10 years, about 3 or 4 times the normal height gain in a decade; plus, for example, the UK average height has not increased by more than 2 cm at the most within quite a wide margin of error (probably more like 1 cm) between the 1971 and 1996 birth cohort... at least not according to the statistics. I think probably 167/168 cm for women and 179/180 cm for men could be averages at my university and the middle-class area I live in, but then again students and professionals are apparently an inch taller on average than others in similar age groups in France; I think it could be the same in the UK.

But privately, I agree; young men seem to be really tall and really skinny and leggy. And the women seem tall and large framed, lol. The statistics say otherwise, but my personal experience doesn't agree with them.

Then again it depends on when I go out. I have a nagging suspicion that short people hide indoors a lot more than tall people.

[Jack1066]

Nah, you look healthy.

[aplane]

I developed anorexia after having my jaw wired for several months and lost around 50 lbs during that time. While I don't think it was beneficial to my growth, I think other factors probably contributed to not reaching my maximum height potential. Like chronic masturbation during puberty. Doctors general agree that 60-80% of height is hereditary, meaning the remainder comes from environmental and behavioral factors.

Not to be too graphic here, but I hit puberty at 11 and would masturbate to orgasm 10-15 times a day, 5 days a week (and a few times on the weekend). It was all done in about half an hour after school. I've read on various places that flooding your body with dopamine decreases the amount of receptors available for testosterone, mixed with the lower overall testosterone output resulted from orgasm. Lack of energy and loss of motivation are also supposed to be correlated, meaning I didn't get much exercise. That went on from 11-18.

I'm 30 now. Way too late for me to take testosterone, as it is with OP. We won't get anything from that.

HGH, however, is entirely different. When taken in high doses, it increases growth throughout the entire body as well as bone thickness and density. Your forehead and jaw will become more prominent, the cartilage in your joints will swell, and your organs will enlarge. Acromegaly is what happens to people with excessive HGH output whose growth plates have closed, so its effects are well-known in people like Tony Robbins (6'7") and Maurice Tillet (5'7"). Here's an acromegalic man who is average height but has a massive frame. I do think HGH should help with bone and soft tissue regeneration during LL, and you can get Humatrope and Omnitrope for next to nothing if your blood tests show a deficiency.

[TIBIKE200]

I developed anorexia after having my jaw wired for several months and lost around 50 lbs during that time. While I don't think it was beneficial to my growth, I think other factors probably contributed to not reaching my maximum height potential. Like chronic masturbation during puberty. Doctors general agree that 60-80% of height is hereditary, meaning the remainder comes from environmental and behavioral factors.

Not to be too graphic here, but I hit puberty at 11 and would masturbate to orgasm 10-15 times a day, 5 days a week (and a few times on the weekend). It was all done in about half an hour after school. I've read on various places that flooding your body with dopamine decreases the amount of receptors available for testosterone, mixed with the lower overall testosterone output resulted from orgasm. Lack of energy and loss of motivation are also supposed to be correlated, meaning I didn't get much exercise. That went on from 11-18.

I'm 30 now. Way too late for me to take testosterone, as it is with OP. We won't get anything from that.

HGH, however, is entirely different. When taken in high doses, it increases growth throughout the entire body as well as bone thickness and density. Your forehead and jaw will become more prominent, the cartilage in your joints will swell, and your organs will enlarge. Acromegaly is what happens to people with excessive HGH output whose growth plates have closed, so its effects are well-known in people like Tony Robbins (6'7") and Maurice Tillet (5'7"). Here's an acromegalic man who is average height but has a massive frame. I do think HGH should help with bone and soft tissue regeneration during LL, and you can get Humatrope and Omnitrope for next to nothing if your blood tests show a deficiency.

Masturbation has nothing to do with growth.

[Jack1066]

If anything hurt your growth it was anorexia (and some studies show that anorexia wouldn't have permanently hurt your growth so long as you recovered within 18 months or so).

[IwannaBeTaller]

Masturbation has nothing to do with growth.

True words my man.

[MrHandsome]

I developed anorexia after having my jaw wired for several months and lost around 50 lbs during that time. While I don't think it was beneficial to my growth, I think other factors probably contributed to not reaching my maximum height potential. Like chronic masturbation during puberty. Doctors general agree that 60-80% of height is hereditary, meaning the remainder comes from environmental and behavioral factors.

Not to be too graphic here, but I hit puberty at 11 and would masturbate to orgasm 10-15 times a day, 5 days a week (and a few times on the weekend). It was all done in about half an hour after school. I've read on various places that flooding your body with dopamine decreases the amount of receptors available for testosterone, mixed with the lower overall testosterone output resulted from orgasm. Lack of energy and loss of motivation are also supposed to be correlated, meaning I didn't get much exercise. That went on from 11-18.

I'm 30 now. Way too late for me to take testosterone, as it is with OP. We won't get anything from that.

HGH, however, is entirely different. When taken in high doses, it increases growth throughout the entire body as well as bone thickness and density. Your forehead and jaw will become more prominent, the cartilage in your joints will swell, and your organs will enlarge. Acromegaly is what happens to people with excessive HGH output whose growth plates have closed, so its effects are well-known in people like Tony Robbins (6'7") and Maurice Tillet (5'7"). Here's an acromegalic man who is average height but has a massive frame. I do think HGH should help with bone and soft tissue regeneration during LL, and you can get Humatrope and Omnitrope for next to nothing if your blood tests show a deficiency.

I am 22 though and honestly I think testosterone can make a difference in my growth.

[asfastaslight]

True words my man.

More related to myself adderall for ADHD stunt growth?  You also eat like nothing, and are very thin.  \

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm pretty sure your done man.

But something to keep in mind is that Rich Piana started taking HGH at 21 years old I believe and that he's reported his head getting bigger, wrists, hands, feet going up 2 sizes. So his frame has grown, but this is over the course of YEARS and I'm assuming 7+IU/day. Note he also says his heart has gotten larger / enlarged gut and possibly won't live past 50-60.

It's up to you if that's worth it. I don't see the point then, especially considering the growth will take so long and by that time the cost of the HGH or peptides you're taking will have easily added up to the cost of one LL segment easily.

You said you've been on an AI which I've been suspicious about preventing torso growth from happening properly, as apparently estrogen has an important part in forming & thickening bones. Have you got your growth plates checked or visited a doctor to check bone age? Still, i doubt you could've stunted yourself, as dudes like Jeff Seid / Schwarzenegger no doubt also ran steroids / AIs through their teens and had fully developed bodies.

[IwannaBeTaller]

More related to myself adderall for ADHD stunt growth?  You also eat like nothing, and are very thin.  \

Rephrase, I didn't understand.

[Jack1066]

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-adhd/news/20140902/adhd-medications-wont-stunt-kids-growth-study-finds#1

No, Adderall shouldn't stunt growth.

Unless you were medically underweight (i.e. BMI less than 18.5 I think) you should have been OK.