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[Whereintheworld?]

I just watched a video posted by Iamready and while I apologize to him beforehand as I don't mean to associate him with my line of thinking, it's inspired me to write this.

Coming from a very tall family, I always felt that the primary reason I wanted to do this surgery was because I was cheated out of my true height somehow. Sure, I had all the feelings of inadequacy/not being a 'real' man and so forth, but I think now that it's all done and over with, I'm being a little more honest with myself.

It was all for women.

If women viewed a 5'2 man the same way as they did one who was 6'2, would I have really cared that other men were taller than me?
 
If height was not a factor with women, would taller men be viewed as more capable/powerful in society (given the modern age)?

I've been asking myself a line of similar questions and no matter what the immediate answer/response I have (and would have insisted on prior to surgery) the line of rationale eventually funnels down to women.
To be clear, I am not blaming women, that's absurd. I am merely saying that no matter if you're going into this at 5'7, 5'2, or even 6'0, your ultimate goal is to appear more attractive to women, your woman, or at least a society that, perhaps inadvertently, correlates a man's 'worth' with his ability to attract women.

For the last few days I've been walking around as a 5'9/5'10 man, as opposed to my old 5'7. Even in the completely platonic encounters I've had with them(women) so far, there is most definitely something different in how they interact with me. This too I believe is an extension of how attractive they find me, even if at a subconscious level.

Again, I did not go through with this to 'bag more ladies', nor is that my intention going forward. However, it's hard to maintain that a desire for women, or at least their desire for me, was not the true reason I went through with this.

[TIBIKE200]

The answer to your topic is yes

[thebesticanbe]

Yes.i believe you said it all!!

[682]

For the vast majority, probably and I believe this is a dangerous line of thought, while of course there is a benefit to being taller, especially when one is considered short it would be foolish to believe, as many appear to do that limb lengthening is the solution to every problem they have in life which all stems back to height neurosis being to blame for everything negative. Suddenly they'll lengthen and their life will be perfect, women, money, respect etc. but this isn't reality and this mindset isn't one that's conducive to solving height neurosis because that person will always think 'It must be my height, if I was x inches taller' even at 6 feet. I think going into the procedure with a realistic mindset of what it can and can't do is paramount and doing such a serious procedure for other people doesn't show a healthy mentality. This is why some top surgeons require the patient pass a psych evaluation.

But I wouldn't say that this is the motivation for everyone, some people are fundamentally dissatisfied with their height which they believe can only be solved through limb lengthening but are doing it for them and have a realistic expectation of what impact it will have which I personally believe is a much healthier mindset and motivation because they are doing it for themselves and nobody else, any interest that comes is just a bonus - I'm sure there are plenty considering it who are married, have children and want to be treated with respect by co-workers, have always disliked their height, feeling emasculated, wish to be more proportional, would feel more confident etc. so to the topic subject, for some yes, for others, no.

[egocentrical]

in all honesty - it has to do a little bit with women for me, however it's that I want to strive to be the best I can (hence my name) and I just hate being very short at 164cms. I did have a relation for about a year with an 8/10 5ft5 girl but we split due to seperate issues, Ive never considered this operation to appeal to more women that's just a side bonus. It stems from just wanting for once in my life to be average and feel like I fit in somewhere as I never have and it effects my decision that I take in life and it eats into my confidence even though my peers regard me as confident and laid back. It's a different type of confidence that it effects if anyone understands - I'm confident in doing things etc but in in reality I'm not confident in the outcome of what I do being good enough?

[CaptainAmerica]

For the vast majority, probably and I believe this is a dangerous line of thought, while of course there is a benefit to being taller, especially when one is considered short it would be foolish to believe, as many appear to do that limb lengthening is the solution to every problem they have in life which all stems back to height neurosis being to blame for everything negative. Suddenly they'll lengthen and their life will be perfect, women, money, respect etc. but this isn't reality and this mindset isn't one that's conducive to solving height neurosis because that person will always think 'It must be my height, if I was x inches taller' even at 6 feet. I think going into the procedure with a realistic mindset of what it can and can't do is paramount and doing such a serious procedure for other people doesn't show a healthy mentality. This is why some top surgeons require the patient pass a psych evaluation.

But I wouldn't say that this is the motivation for everyone, some people are fundamentally dissatisfied with their height which they believe can only be solved through limb lengthening but are doing it for them and have a realistic expectation of what impact it will have which I personally believe is a much healthier mindset and motivation because they are doing it for themselves and nobody else, any interest that comes is just a bonus - I'm sure there are plenty considering it who are married, have children and want to be treated with respect by co-workers, have always disliked their height, feeling emasculated, wish to be more proportional, would feel more confident etc. so to the topic subject, for some yes, for others, no.

M8 I get so tired of hearing ppl like you use this argument 

I am 5'4

I am treated like a kid in the real world by adults and women

I would bet my life savings on there being a major difference in being completely invisible and unviable to women to at least slightly below average.

[TIBIKE200]

"fundemental dissatisfaction from their height". That term is so vague and stupid (sorry). Dissatisfied  with what exactly? There's need to be a reason to be dissastified with something... Most probably because it makes women less interested in you.. Some people are so ego invested that they just can't admit that and start talking with vague terms with no meanings

[682]

M8 I get so tired of hearing ppl like you use this argument 

Which argument specifically? That limb lengthening won't be the magic life changing experience to end any and all woes and problems in your life and make you a complete and utter Casanova and that to go in with unrealistic expectations of what the procedure will achieve is dangerous and ignorant? I still stand by this.

I am 5'4

I am treated like a kid in the real world by adults and women

I would bet my life savings on there being a major difference in being completely invisible and unviable to women to at least slightly below average.

Maybe if you had read my post properly and its entirety, I never said otherwise. In fact, I stated 'of course there is a benefit to being taller, especially when one is considered short'. There's a substantial and tangible benefit to lengthening, including the public perception towards that person. I never said otherwise. What I did say is that going through this solely to attract women, going to these utter extremes and believing you will be fighting them off the second you finish lengthening, then reality hits and many people will believe 'if I was 6 feet... etc.' is a dangerous line of thought and that many people do it for themselves, not for potential sxxual partners are they are happily married etc. If you wish to discuss this further I would be happy to, but please address what I have said instead of something I haven't.

[TIBIKE200]

I wasn't adressing you in person but rather what many people usually say. I didn't go into specifics because the list of reasons people come up with is as long and the time the Jews spent in the diaspora.


 Edit: for some reason I thought you were talking to me.... I need more coffee it seems

[682]

"fundemental dissatisfaction from their height". That term is so vague and stupid (sorry). Dissatisfied  with what exactly? There's need to be a reason to be dissastified with something... Most probably because it makes women less interested in you.. Some people are so ego invested that they just can't admit that and start talking with vague terms with no meanings

There are many other motivations to undergo the excruciating, dangerous and debilitating procedure of limb lengthening than that of seeking sxxual validation from potential partners (though I admit this possibly may be the most common), I don't believe the phrase is 'vague and stupid' at all and is highly accurate to many people both here and in the world around us. If I may seek clarification, you're saying that somebody can't be dissatisfied with an aspect of their physical body if it's not solely to please or attract a sxxual partner? If so, I don't believe there is any point in discussing this further as we completely disagree on this point.

For example, if a man is overweight, marries and is completely content with his partner and has no intention of seeking a relationship with anybody else then decides to lose weight, stating he's fundamentally dissatisfied with being overweight and how the world/friends/coworkers perceive and treat him or how he perceives  and feels about himself, are you saying that he is lying and his true motivation to lose weight can only ever be to sxxually attract someone else rather than being dissatisfied and wanting to change to feel positive about himself? Clearly that's ridiculous. Now swap his fundamental dissatisfaction with being overweight to having a big nose, acne, a balding head or his height - can he not wish to change it for himself and to address his own dissatisfaction?

There are a multitude of reasons of wanting to do so and if we are speaking in terms of being 'ego invested' as you say, surely there is no greater negative self worth, including going to the extreme lengths of undergoing this procedure solely for validation of self worth through having sxxual relations. Many people love to feel attractive to the a prospective partner but their self worth and love should primarily come from being satisfied with themselves, not other people. I hope this has clarified my position, you are welcome to disagree and I completely respect and understand your stance on the matter as it is applicable to many considering the procedure, just not everyone!

I wasn't adressing you in person but rather what many people usually say. I didn't go into specifics because the list of reasons people come up with is as long and the time the Jews spent in the diaspora.


Edit: for some reason I thought you were talking to me.... I need more coffee it seems

No problem my man.

[CaptainAmerica]

Mate no one wants to read your contemplative mountains of text  like seriously what are you even going on about....

[682]

Mate no one wants to read your contemplative mountains of text  like seriously what are you even going on about....

I'm discussing the subject of the post on a discussion board, I thought this was obvious. For whatever reason you don't want to and that's fine, please make it clear prior to me responding that you have no intention of civil and constructive discussion so I don't waste either of our time trying to do so by replying to you - of course you can always just ignore my posts! Have a good evening my friend.

[TIBIKE200]

When someone is displeased with a physical attribute, it's usually because it makes the person think that he is unattractive. Having a GF/BF, spouse or whatever won't change that...
  It would be wrong to say "Someone want to change something about themselves for a specific person from the opposite sxx". But to say "I want to change this specific physical aspet because I want to feel more attractive (to the opposite sxx of course...Unless you are gay so you want to be attractive to the same sxx)" is ok and having a love partner wont change that.

 Edit: And a good marker to one's attractivness is the interest he is getting from the opposite sex of course.

[Body Builder]

When someone is displeased with a physical attribute, it's usually because it makes the person think that he is unattractive. Having a GF/BF, spouse or whatever won't change that...
  It would be wrong to say "Someone want to change something about themselves for a specific person from the opposite sxx". But to say "I want to change this specific physical aspet because I want to feel more attractive (to the opposite sxx of course...Unless you are gay so you want to be attractive to the same sxx)" is ok and having a love partner wont change that.

 Edit: And a good marker to one's attractivness is the interest he is getting from the opposite sxx of course.

Very well said.

My answer to the topic is that if you are short (less than 5.7), you want LL to feel normal and not receive height discrimination in every aspect of your life.

If you are about average (5.7-5.10), you don't face this discrimination and if you are generally masculine enough (with not a babyface and with some muscles on you) you'll get a complete respect for the majority of men regardless that you are not tall.
But for many women your height, even you are completely ok in every other aspect, won't be enough to get attracted to you so imo, yes, if you are close to average and want to do LL then it is mainly for women.

Personally, I did my first LL when I was 5.6,5 to feel normal.
Now that I'm 5.9 I plan my second LL to reach a solid 5.11  to have the social benefits of being more than average and never have any problem with the vast majority of women due to my height.
So for now yes, my most significant by far reason to do a second LL is for women.

[TIBIKE200]

I wonder Big Daddy, do you have friends in the 5'9 (175cm given or take) height range? Did you ever ask them how they feel about their height? I have friends in those heights and they are all content

[egocentrical]

I agree with the first half of what you said BB - being 5ft4 I just want to be normal/average to get rid of the feeling I have down inside me, I'm going to be doing this solely for me to move on with my life and clear my mind of it. I can't say for anyone who is average height doing this however.

[Bander72]

So any mod gonna do something about big daddy troll. I remember Zaney was banned for the same thing.

[Jack1066]

Yes, I won't deny a lot of it is, but I don't think that's the "full package".

Mostly I'm pissed that I have to work that little bit harder than other men when it comes down to day-to-day life. At this stage in my own life, I really can't be asked with making the extra effort any more. I admit I have body image issues and I really cannot be bothered apologising to society for them any more. So I don't.

When it comes to girls/women, it used to bother me a lot more. Now I just don't bother trying any harder to compensate for my height. Sure, not as many women are interested in me as there might be, but I still attract the kind of women I want to attract and that's OK with me. As I said, I don't try to compensate any more, partly because it's fruitless and partly because I'm not interested in being with a woman who doesn't like me for me.

That said, the thing that annoys me more is that something as innocuous as height (5'8 for me) seems to disqualify about half of women, give or take. I've never been turned down directly because of my height, on the other hand I've had unsolicited passive-aggressive BS from women like "you'd be cute if you were a couple of inches taller", and I've been told I've had "short man syndrome" because of (apparently) high self-esteem (I'm not at all even aggressive) which I've found really irritating. I'm not interested in impressing people that think that way, but I still find it tiring. That also seems like a bad reason to do LL, but it has undeniably affected my self-confidence. So that's probably one of my main motivations for doing LL. I generally get enough respect from other men and I don't want to go into the corporate world.

The only other annoying thing about being only a bit short is that I can easily be invisible, on the other hand that can be a bonus too. I don't think getting to 5'10 will change that much, on the other hand it'll make it a bit easier to be visible.

[TIBIKE200]

Yes, I won't deny a lot of it is, but I don't think that's the "full package".

Mostly I'm pissed that I have to work that little bit harder than other men when it comes down to day-to-day life. At this stage in my own life, I really can't be asked with making the extra effort any more. I admit I have body image issues and I really cannot be bothered apologising to society for them any more. So I don't.

When it comes to girls/women, it used to bother me a lot more. Now I just don't bother trying any harder to compensate for my height. Sure, not as many women are interested in me as there might be, but I still attract the kind of women I want to attract and that's OK with me. As I said, I don't try to compensate any more, partly because it's fruitless and partly because I'm not interested in being with a woman who doesn't like me for me.

That said, the thing that annoys me more is that something as innocuous as height (5'8 for me) seems to disqualify about half of women, give or take. I've never been turned down directly because of my height, on the other hand I've had unsolicited passive-aggressive BS from women like "you'd be cute if you were a couple of inches taller", and I've been told I've had "short man syndrome" because of (apparently) high self-esteem (I'm not at all even aggressive) which I've found really irritating. I'm not interested in impressing people that think that way, but I still find it tiring. That also seems like a bad reason to do LL, but it has undeniably affected my self-confidence. So that's probably one of my main motivations for doing LL. I generally get enough respect from other men and I don't want to go into the corporate world.

The only other annoying thing about being only a bit short is that I can easily be invisible, on the other hand that can be a bonus too. I don't think getting to 5'10 will change that much, on the other hand it'll make it a bit easier to be visible.

Being automatically disqualified by half of the women for being 1.2-2 inches below average is a little extreme

[Jack1066]

Well, it's my experience from what women have commented.

But in my experience a lot of women don't have entirely rigid height limits unless they are superficial or insecure.

I am also more like 3 inches below average in my city. It depends on where you go. I live among a wealthy, white student population.

[TIBIKE200]

Well, it's my experience from what women have commented.

But in my experience a lot of women don't have entirely rigid height limits unless they are superficial or insecure.

I am also more like 3 inches below average in my city. It depends on where you go. I live among a wealthy, white student population.

Maybe if they are superficial. But superficiality doesn't always correlates with good looks. Another theme that I think that needs to be put to rest is that "the more attractive the women is, the more likely she will seek a tall guy" which is infesting this forum

[yyes]

The only other annoying thing about being only a bit short is that I can easily be invisible, on the other hand that can be a bonus too. I don't think getting to 5'10 will change that much, on the other hand it'll make it a bit easier to be visible.

This may go against what many think in this forum but 2 inches would make a world of difference. Goin from 5'8 to 5'10 would definitely help. Maybe not in the dating game but in my opinion 5'10 - 6'2 range becomes very ideal

[Jack1066]

Maybe you're right, yyes. I kind of hope so but at the same time I don't lol.

Yes I agree with you TIBIKE, attractive women are not especially likely to be superficial. On the other hand, if you yourself only look for what are conventionally considered to be good looks in a partner though, don't be surprised if you also end up finding superficial women.

[Jack1066]

I think 5'10 is a decent compromise height when it comes to dating, actually. Most women won't turn you down based on your height (unless they are overly superficial, and in which case I'm glad I missed them, or tall, but many tall women are also less fussy about height) and you still get the women who prefer average-to-short men (it may or may not surprise you but they really do exist- especially shorter women who sometimes prefer the compatibility).

I forgot to say, TIBIKE, I am 21 years old, so I think that explains why there are so many superficial women around at my age. I prefer women a few years older generally speaking, for that reason, but I look a little young in the face, which doesn't help

[TIBIKE200]

I think 5'10 is a decent compromise height when it comes to dating, actually. Most women won't turn you down based on your height (unless they are overly superficial, and in which case I'm glad I missed them, or tall, but many tall women are also less fussy about height) and you still get the women who prefer average-to-short men (it may or may not surprise you but they really do exist- especially shorter women who sometimes prefer the compatibility).

I forgot to say, TIBIKE, I am 21 years old, so I think that explains why there are so many superficial women around at my age. I prefer women a few years older generally speaking, for that reason, but I look a little young in the face, which doesn't help

I am 26 years old and I 90% of the time dated women between 20-25 years old.

[Body Builder]

@ jack1066: at 5.8 at don't think you are invisible to anyone.
Yes, some women will reject you only for that and the majority of women would like you to be taller, even if they don't reject you. So yes, at these heights which are close to average (5.8-5.9) we still have to compensate for our height, even if it has to do with an above average face, a very fit or muscular body, a good job or something else, things that a tall man doesn't need to have to be attractive to many women. If you are short though, unfortunately, makes everything in life and especially dating much much harder. But our short fellow who are here already know that and that's why they are considering LL which of course can improve their lives a lot, like it has done with me.
Being tall on the other hand and generally average (not bad of course) in every other aspect is enough for the majority of women imo and then it comes the character which defines if a woman will stay with you or not.
But if you are a little beyond average height, you should try much more and thats why I want to change (again) my height. Because I don't want to still try more due to something I can't change  even though I tried a lot to be above average to things I could change (body, style etc).
This is unfair but you can only change it with LL. So be it.

@ Tibike: getting attracted to tall men for a woman isn't always a sign of a superficial character or way of thinking.
Ridiculous height limits like 6ft and more, especially for short or average girls, are indeed superficial but I can understand that a young good looking woman will be more attracted to an average 6 ft man than an average 5.9 man and not get attracted to a 5.5 man, even he is above average in face or style let's say.
I see that my body, even with LL which makes my proportions worse compared to a natural 5.9 man, look way better than what it did with my previous height, so it is completely normal for women to prefer me now than before because I indeed look better.

So, if a girl is attracted to tall(er) men isn't most of the times shallow, at least for that, like most of the men aren't shallow for getting attracted to slim women more compared to obese or with women for instance.

LL, if it is done with a good doctor and without surpassing our body limits by too much lemgthening, really gives us the opportunity to get and feel better and more attractive.
So, it's up to anyone if he accepts himself and want to live a life with much obstacles that has to do with height or risk and change himself with LL surgery.
Everything is up to us.

[TIBIKE200]

BB@ You are confusing preference with superficiality. There is a difference between a woman who would PREFER to date a man who is tall/rich/handsome etc, than a woman who simply WON'T DATE a man who doesn't ..

 It's just like me Prefering big tits and ass but I would never not date a girl who doesnt have great tits or ass if she has other things going for her.
  Btw, there is a big difference between a man being 5'5 and being rejected for height and a man who is 5'9+ being rejected for height. It's like me rejecting a woman who is not perefectly slim or rejecting a woman who is fat. Two very different scenarios that show alot about one's character and superficiality.

 Rejecting someone for not having a plus is not like rejecting someone for having a minus

 And about height being more important than face, it's simply not true. My whole life I have seen than 170cm guys and up with a good face are doing expetionally well with women. Don't compare a 5'8 guy with an average face to a 5'5 guy with an average face.. Those are completely two different scenarios. A good looking 5'8 guy will do a hell of a lot better than a 6' guy with a so so to an average face. I have had enough platonic relationships with women to know that once a certain threshold is passed (usually around the 175cm) height means nothing

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

Reading some posts here... seriously that was the reason i never registered on the old forum.

[Jack1066]

TIBIKE, fair enough. It does depend most of all on the individual and culture I guess.

I agree, bodybuilder, and thanks. I only mean being invisible in a crowd or at the bar when I'm trying to get a drink, lol. But sometimes in a social situation I have to put myself across that bit extra because I'm overlooked more easily. But normally that's OK.

It's better to use the time being short to develop yourself in a lot of other areas. On the other hand I'm just tired of doing that too.

[TIBIKE200]

Don't know jack1066, I live in northern Italy and that's how people are here.

[Body Builder]

@ tibike: I agree with many things you wrote but imo and experience height and an overall built (not like a bber but a little more muscular than average) body is much more important than a good face for the majority of women, especially for women over 20 yo.

And the threshold of height that above that it doesn't matter is definitely not 5.9.
For the vast majority of women is 5.11. Many will say 6ft but in reality women can't distinguish between 5.11 and 6ft and because almost all men exaggerate about their heights, most 5.11 guys say that they are 6ft so that's why many women think that this is the real border between tall and average.

Imo 5.11 is more than enough to never have any problem with your height in anything in your life and you also start to have social benefits from it and that's why I want to just reach that height and I don't want to push myself for 6ft which is not so hard after all for a 5.9 man like me after femur LL.
But after 5.11 I won't really care for anything more so I won't risk for more.

Anyway, in the west world, 5.9 is not enough to never face any problem with your height again, especially on dating.
5.11 is the true limit from what I've seen, especially on countries where the average height of men is about 5.10 more or less.
For countries like Norway or Sweden maybe even 5.11 isn't considered anything special but I don't live there and also my body won't look good at all with more than 2-2.5 inches more than now so I really don't care.
If I were 5.11 I'm completely sure that I'd be very happy with myself and if a woman would say that it is not enough, then she would have really be a shallow and moron person so I wouldn't care even a little.