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[TheLichKing]

If you look at my post, I directed the Canada part to another user, google42. Why not try your luck with shorter women? The tall ones would want around a 6'0 guy in most cases, yes. But your desire to increase potential with all women including the ones in the tall side still doesn't explain why you hadn't had atleast one gf yet, with your perfectly average 5'10 height and 28 years of age (I find it amusing you were dating a 38 yr old woman - lot of age difference).

You have explained well why you are seeking limb lengthening, you are seeking perfection or maximizing your potential in every possible way; i.e. increasing your potential with each and every woman. But on the other hand, you can choose not to get the surgery and hit women on the short-bit above average side (170 under). Well it's your personal preference, and I have to admit, I'm a perfectionist too in some way or the other (explains my 5'11 goal instead of 5'9) but I am also willing to maximize my utility from this surgery (the time and money - making it worth it without going too much over the safety margin).

Lastly, you shouldn't have problems getting shorter women with your current height because if 5'7 TIBIKE can do it, so can you.

[Body Builder]

Maybe try doing what DoingItForMe said for online dating: set your height higher and compare it with how many matches you get with your actual height.

Online dating is not real life.
Even there height plays a very significant role but the difference in a club between an average (or even better) 5.8 dude to an average 6ft dude is huge in terms of flirting with women.
And 5.8 isn't even short, it's about average.

Height is the most important aspect in a mans appearance that women value the most.
Thats a fact and although it isn't in favour of most of us here, it is something that we know and can't deny.
Thats why we considering LL after all.

[google42]

Online dating is not real life.
Even there height plays a very significant role but the difference in a club between an average (or even better) 5.8 dude to an average 6ft dude is huge in terms of flirting with women.
And 5.8 isn't even short, it's about average.

Height is the most important aspect in a mans appearance that women value the most.
Thats a fact and although it isn't in favour of most of us here, it is something that we know and can't deny.
Thats why we considering LL after all.

I was talking to the Italian guy, but thanks for your input. Plus I don't go to clubs so I wouldn't know. I do agree that height is very important for a male but you don't have to be tall in order to attract women. If you are 100 % sure you want to go through the surgery again and you are fully prepared then I say go for it. No need to justify to us why you wanna do the surgery, it's pointless.

[Ozymandias]

Height is the most important aspect in a mans appearance that women value the most.
Thats a fact and although it isn't in favour of most of us here, it is something that we know and can't deny.

*opinion

I fix'd that for you, pal.

And now I'm gonna post this just to cheer you up:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11833-the-face-not-the-body-attracts-a-mate/#.VXSngUagy8g

[Camillo]

Hi I am 28, I'm 177, I'm average good as appearance  (so girls outside my family say) since I did a maxillofacial surgery and rhinoplasty which helped me a lot. I was on the average ugly side before. And I'm an assumed average height which is 177 cm. I noticed that most average/pretty girls here are obsessed by height in a man. Many many times on dates they made some reference to me being short/not tall enough. I admit i used to go to girls met online so appearance is more important there maybe the first thing. Anyway even asking many girls about how their ideal man should be they always say the magic word "tall" usually first. "TALL attractive confident nice...". It's not a chance. I don't feel myself so short but even "not tall enough" to date pretty women. With my average/decent face I think that being on the average/tall side would give me that bonus which would make the difference.
I am introvert also and never had a gf so far. I think I should work much on my personality and be more open and funny. But still being tall would help me indirectly, because when you are tall world smiles to you a bit more. I'm not saying that tall people have an easy life, but an easier life.  People have the attitude to associate height with power so they tend to respect more tall guys. This means tall guys get constantly these feedbacks which slowly build their confidence. Not to add the same fact that walking even only 10 cm over the heads of the other people gives you that feeling of being "superior".

I noticed that here the new average/good height is 182/183 cm at least. And that is what would be enough for me. I would be as tall as di caprio for example (not as attractive of course) and I have never heard anyone saying that didn't caprio is not tall enough.

I am not rich, I would like to spend the least possible. Also I would accept even 3 cm instead than 5 if that meant less money spent.

Man, honestly, LL is not a joke. It is not only about money, but also time, pain, obstacles, and when you finish screws in your legs. 177 cm is a good average (if you are a real 177 cm) and I would strongly recommend against doing it for 3 cm. And also against doing in the third world just to save money. Non farti rovinare.

If you really want to do it, save your money, go to Catagni in Lecco (you are Italian, so I would go in Italy, it just make everything simple also because in case of achille tendon surgery or other complications you will get that fixed for free with sistema sanitario nazionale). And do at least 5 cm!

P.S. Di Caprio is not even 180 cm, I met him in Thailand. If you think you cannot date pretty woman because of your 177 cm, I would rather suggest you some good book or course of seduction.

[TIBIKE200]

How tall is decaprio?

[Jack1066]

google says he is 183 cm but celebrities are known to lie about their height.

[TheLichKing]

Ths site gives genuine celebrity height: http://www.celebheights.com/s/Leonardo-DiCaprio-15.html

Zac Efron and Ian Somerhalder are some examples of bit short-average height celebrities who women drool after. Ian has over 10 million followers on instagram, and he ain't even that rich and big-of-a-name compared to other celebrities. Plus he's the same height as OP. He won many women's hearts from his famous "Vampire Diaries" show but he got some killer looks.

[Body Builder]

I was talking to the Italian guy, but thanks for your input. Plus I don't go to clubs so I wouldn't know. I do agree that height is very important for a male but you don't have to be tall in order to attract women. If you are 100 % sure you want to go through the surgery again and you are fully prepared then I say go for it. No need to justify to us why you wanna do the surgery, it's pointless.

I wrote generally (WE are considering), not only for me.
After all, almost all in this forum are interested in LL.
And yes, if you want to be acceptable from the majority of women you have to be above average height, as a woman should have at least a thin body to be likable from the majority of men.
Of course an obese woman could find someone but she is not generally attractive. That is unfortunately about the same with men and height. Short men could find women but is is much harder and generally speaking, to be acceptable from the most women you have to be at least average and a little more.

Ozymandias, there are hundreds of researches who say how important is height for men in dating, working and generally in life.
This research you posted is first of old 10 years old and furthermore is in not a deep research but talks very gemerally.
If you think that a 5.5 man with a perfect can have more dates than a comoletely average 6ft tall man, then you have no idea what is going on in reality.
Short men (like I used to be) have huge drawback to tall men, even the first are much better in everything else.
With average height men things get more complicated but still being above average is the most significant asset in a man's appearance.
And thats a fact.

If you believe something else then try a cosmetic surgery on your face, not LL.
After all I don't know your height. Maybe you are like some 5.11 people here who want to lengthen 2-3cm so you cant understand how important is height for a short to just less than average height man.

[TIBIKE200]

I wrote generally (WE are considering), not only for me.
After all, almost all in this forum are interested in LL.
And yes, if you want to be acceptable from the majority of women you have to be above average height, as a woman should have at least a thin body to be likable from the majority of men.
Of course an obese woman could find someone but she is not generally attractive. That is unfortunately about the same with men and height. Short men could find women but is is much harder and generally speaking, to be acceptable from the most women you have to be at least average and a little more.

Ozymandias, there are hundreds of researches who say how important is height for men in dating, working and generally in life.
This research you posted is first of old 10 years old and furthermore is in not a deep research but talks very gemerally.
If you think that a 5.5 man with a perfect can have more dates than a comoletely average 6ft tall man, then you have no idea what is going on in reality.
Short men (like I used to be) have huge drawback to tall men, even the first are much better in everything else.
With average height men things get more complicated but still being above average is the most significant asset in a man's appearance.
And thats a fact.

If you believe something else then try a cosmetic surgery on your face, not LL.
After all I don't know your height. Maybe you are like some 5.11 people here who want to lengthen 2-3cm so you cant understand how important is height for a short to just less than average height man.

But you are not 5'5! You are 5'8-5'9 and in no place can compare your height to your old height

[Body Builder]

Tibike I wrote that I was short because I write some hard things about short men and their chances with women but I really don't want to insult any of our short mates here.
Thats why I mentioned that I was short too before LL.
Of course my new height makes a good difference but still I'm considered below average, even a little. The real deal imo is to be higher than average.

And of course I'm not saying that I agree with the so superficial and strict height requirements (not even preferences) that the majority of women have.
They are completely nonsense imo because in reality being taller doesn't give you any real benefit in anything like let's say being stronger etc.
But unfortunately it is the reality so the choice for any less than average or short man is to accept his body and live with some drawbacks in his life or change his body via LL.
I think that almost all people here tend to believe that the best choice for themselves is the second and I am one of them as I did LL and plan for another one.

[TIBIKE200]

Still, at your height or my height the situation is not tragic. I mean let's be real. Our height might not be "omg you are so tall" but it is nowhere near "sorry too short".

I highly doubt that the majority of women reject you on your height. They might prefer you to be taller but they don't reject you for being 5'8-5'9

[Body Builder]

Still, at your height or my height the situation is not tragic. I mean let's be real. Our height might not be "omg you are so tall" but it is nowhere near "sorry too short".

I highly doubt that the majority of women reject you on your height. They might prefer you to be taller but they don't reject you for being 5'8-5'9

Tibike you live in denial about how important is for the majority of good looking women, who can have almost any man they want, to be with someone who is tall or at least completely average (which in my country is 1.78cm for a man).
And yes, I have been rejected for my (current) height and I've heard many times some from bad (not insulting however) to just funny comments about my height.
And only from women. Men respect me a lot due to my built body and my character and noone ever told that I'm short after LL.
But for women not being tall is something that you can't get easily away with, especially if you have the alpha male attitude I have due to my relatively big muscles and the big experience I have with the opposite gender.
Maybe they bash me because I seem like I feel very confident with my self and I'm sure that no one ever could understand that I have a height insecurity because my behaviour shows that I am completely ok with myself. And generally I am but my height that is less than average still bothers me, not because I don't like my body but because it doesn't give me the social benefits with women that a tall man has. And I don't like that at all because men keep praising me about my body but women seem to care about my height much more than they should, taken in mind that I have a good face, a muscular body and a good style generally.

Maybe if my attitude was more, lets say, low key, I could attract more women, not the hottest ones though.
But I can't be something that I am not only because my height doesn't correspond to my attitude for many women's logic.

At your age I had a lot of success with some very good looking and with a good character girls although I was 5.65 but I was just very lucky and I can see it now when my experience with women is much much more.
So when you reach almost 30 and all this time you keep having many successes with women despite your 5.7 height, then I would take your opinion much more serious in this subject.
But now you are just too young to have complete knowledge of the importance of height for a man in dating.

ps I am writing all these to you in a very friendly way. You are a respectable discussant and I don't have any intention to insult you.

[TIBIKE200]

I am 26 years old so not so young.
  I am not into the clubbing scene (I go to raves a lot though) although it did happen that women have hit on me in clubs a few times. At bars same story as well. Actually I know no one that has ever gotten anything from a bar or a club (tall or short).

 I don't say it's not important. My GF who knows about my will to go this surgery told me, after me making her become more honest, that a taller version of me is a hotter version of me. But in the same sentence told me that I have an amazing body (Another example of taste as I am naturally hairless and she likes it a lot like many other women) and eyes that all her friends and even family told her about (I truly am grateful for my eyes as I have recieved too many compliments for them from women).This is to say that even though height is an attractive trait, it's not all. I am also very cky and open about my thoughts (to almost being considered rude) and appear very confident (My GF was shocked when I told her aboutmy insecurity even before I told her that I want to do LL). She also teased my height but that was because I appear very confident and it is just a tease.

 I have had tall friends being teased for having small hands orsmall heads... Women will always find something to mock you about

[Body Builder]

I thought you are in your early 20's.
Nevermind.

And I don't know what you mean with "Actually I know no one that has ever gotten anything from a bar or a club (tall or short)".
If you mean that you don't know men who got girls in the clubs, I know many of them and I am one of them too.
After all, most women go to clubs for the same reason as men, to flirt and find a date.

Finally, of course height is not everything.
But the lack of height (and I'm talking for short men) makes almost everything else insignificant for a woman.
Being tall and only doesn't make you good at dating but if you have a moderate appearance with a good height gives you about the same advantage as being about average height with very good looks (face and fit body).
So if you have both good looks and a good height then you should consider yourself very lucky in terms of dating.
The bad thing is that looks can improve a lot with hard work but height not.
So if you tried a lot and have very good results in your whole appearance and the only thing that keeps you back and beyond average is height, then you have every reason to consider LL.
If someone has bad style, obese body etc and he is not short enough (lets say less than 5.7) and he believes that LL is the first he should does, he is completely wrong.

[TIBIKE200]

A lot of people go to bars and clubs to enjoy a good drink or dance to good music. As much as a lot go to flirt or get flirted.


 A lot of female friends of mine told me they hate it when men disturb them when they are in a bar (no matter how the guy looks). I have also witnessed it first hand with female friends of mine rejecting guys who look like brad pit just because they werent interested to know someone when they went out.


Edit: But I guess it comes to the country in which you live. As when I went for a month to Toronto my ass became red from all the pinching it got from girls in bars and clubs over there

[Body Builder]

There are these kind of women too of course.
But there are also many who look for an interesting man.
And I believe that the vast majority of women, even if they went out only for a drink, wouldn't easily reject a Brad Pitt lookalike man who talks to them.

But I think we got offtopic.

[TIBIKE200]

Let's agree to disagree

[asfastaslight]

look up returnofkings.com, or rooshv.com and try that site his books are pretty good.

[drtruman]

Ths site gives genuine celebrity height: http://www.celebheights.com/s/Leonardo-DiCaprio-15.html

Zac Efron and Ian Somerhalder are some examples of bit short-average height celebrities who women drool after. Ian has over 10 million followers on instagram, and he ain't even that rich and big-of-a-name compared to other celebrities. Plus he's the same height as OP. He won many women's hearts from his famous "Vampire Diaries" show but he got some killer looks.

How can you even take into account celebrities who are rich famous and honestly have a killer looks with the average 177 cm guy like me?

[drtruman]

A lot of people go to bars and clubs to enjoy a good drink or dance to good music. As much as a lot go to flirt or get flirted.


 A lot of female friends of mine told me they hate it when men disturb them when they are in a bar (no matter how the guy looks). I have also witnessed it first hand with female friends of mine rejecting guys who look like brad pit just because they werent interested to know someone when they went out.


Edit: But I guess it comes to the country in which you live. As when I went for a month to Toronto my ass became red from all the pinching it got from girls in bars and clubs over there

For what I know about Average women, if some guy really handsome confident (and tall?) Approaches them, 95% of the times they will be interested.  Exactly as if a very hot woman tries to approach you, would you be interested or not?
I don't know if I said before but I dated some women. Problem was that the only women who were interested in me were -honestly speaking, no offense to them- ugly women. This is what mother nature wpuld bring me naturally and i dont like it. So i am trying to cheat nature and genetics. Now, I am not super attractive but I am honestly not ugly, I am not stupid or have some big genetic fault. Fact is that for my experience if you want to date average/pretty girls you cannot simply be average. You have to stand up among the many, because remember, women have the power to choose and why should they choose an average (in other words, often average means mediocre) guy like many others when they can have the best or at least someone in the upper range?   This applies to everything, height included. Remember that they often talk of men around 6 feet as ideal, which is exactely a height above average. You won't attract many women with a  average face or height, you have to step above average, and then you will have real chances (that you will be able to get or not depending on  your skills and intelligence; if you are stupid or depressed and introvert you still stand no chance). Otherwise, let's be honest, you will have to struggle much to simply hope to find someone who will accept you... and that is not a real choice, this means to be chosen.
I strongly believe that in present world a good look and a height above average opens the doors of heaven in relation shup field. I think that it is useless to do a big effort with gym or seduction skills when your potential of attraction is mainly (let's say 80%) dependant on genetic factors. This is simply the frame of mind of 1950s of "hard work brinGS you everywhere" which, if in some field it could be true, applied extensively is plain stupid. 
With my decent look and average height I have tried to date many average/pretty woman and I could only get the ugly ones. The only not ugly one I came close to have (but still did not in the end) was fat and insecure. And believe me I know my social skills and I am not less than average, I am probably more funny and I look more confident than average here. So it's not a personality issue.
I simply have this life and want the best in every field. I don't harm anyone so I don't see why not.

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

When people will finally acknowledge the fact that human attraction is complicated and "hierarchy" of valued traits depend on each individual?

[TheLichKing]

If you look at my post, I directed the Canada part to another user, google42. Why not try your luck with shorter women? The tall ones would want around a 6'0 guy in most cases, yes. But your desire to increase potential with all women including the ones in the tall side still doesn't explain why you hadn't had atleast one gf yet, with your perfectly average 5'10 height and 28 years of age (I find it amusing you were dating a 38 yr old woman - lot of age difference).

You have explained well why you are seeking limb lengthening, you are seeking perfection or maximizing your potential in every possible way; i.e. increasing your potential with each and every woman. But on the other hand, you can choose not to get the surgery and hit women on the short-bit above average side (170 under). Well it's your personal preference, and I have to admit, I'm a perfectionist too in some way or the other (explains my 5'11 goal instead of 5'9) but I am also willing to maximize my utility from this surgery (the time and money - making it worth it without going too much over the safety margin).

Lastly, you shouldn't have problems getting shorter women with your current height because if 5'7 TIBIKE can do it, so can you.

In case you didn't read this post of mine earlier.

How can you even take into account celebrities who are rich famous and honestly have a killer looks with the average 177 cm guy like me?

I was comparing him to other celebrities as an analogy, hence I wrote: "ain't even that rich and big-of-a-name compared to other celebrities and he's 177cm" - nevertheless, still significantly more attractive to women than some taller, richer, more famous celebrities out there. That's the big picture I was trying to portray in that comment. Well, human attraction (especially female) is complicated, it's a blend of personality, looks, and status.

[drtruman]

Not so complicated. Exactly as you said it's simply this ( I would go for this order but it can change according individual): look and status. With some women valuing status more than looks some others the opposite. If you have both look and status let's be honest, you will naturally attract almost any women.
But for our luck, since it is hard to find guys who really have good looks and high social status, they are not enough for every woman, they (I am talking about the average pretty girls who have dozens males on their feet thus power to choose who they want) will accept even a guy with good look and average status or a guy with good status and average look.

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

Maybe at the first sight but then they see that you are a douchebag and the whole magic goes away.

Funny thing, guys at my current job that have the hottest girlfriends are mostly in 5'8-5'11 height range.

[TheLichKing]

Maybe at the first sight but then they see that you are a douchebag and the whole magic goes away.

Funny thing, guys at my current job that have the hottest girlfriends are mostly in 5'8-5'11 height range.

True and that's classified as a personality issue. The best of best would be to maintain all 3 (personality, looks, status) at their strongest. But that doesn't mean a 5'11 guy should opt for Limb lengthening to become 6'2 lol.

[TIBIKE200]

Non lo so... La mia ragazza e una romana bionda che ogni volta che usciamo insieme e la lascio due minuti al bar da sola, viene rimorchiata da una marea di uomini.

 Credimi che lo so come e in italia... Ti ho detto gia che anche io ho sentito la frase "altezza mezza belezza"... Ma ancora, se io come un immigrante alto 171 centimetri riesco a frequentare delle ragazze che sono considerate belle, non vedo perche tu non potresti farlo.

[YungGud]

what about fighting after LL ,its stupied but if you have to fight with somebody ,would you ready to be as good as you was before or you will look like defective?

[Body Builder]

Drtruman speaks the words of truth.
Even if someone knowa a 5.8 with a hot chick (I had 2 real hot girls for long time relationships when I was just 5.65!) or if some 5.9 celebrity is hotter than many 6ft celebrities, all these are just exceptions to the rule that women seek for tall, masculine men who are above average in everything. At least hot women, who can choose and most of the times take the man they want.

Drtruman I face exactly the same as you, although I had more experiences with good looking women than you.
But I still struggle to have many hot women I like to give me a chance because I see that my height is not enough for them to be totally attracted to me. I really believe that if I towered them,  plus my generally good looks and body and with my social skills I would have a much easier job than at least 90% of other men.
But my 5.9 (or 5.85 at night to be precise) makes everything much harder, like in your case and everyone's else who are not on their home in front of their pc and don't really know what is going on in the real world.

Drtruman you know as I know too that the only solution to really have the upper hand (at least as a man can have the upperhand) in dating is only LL so do your research and go to a respectable doctor to solve once and for all your height problem.
For all the above there is no way some people here who believe that if you are 5.7 for instance you won't have problems in dating or that a good face means everything or you must have money and nothing else matters and all these because most of them haven't understood what women want.
And they want the whole package which means a man above average in everything. And unfortunately for us, the first they want to be above average (and many times a lot) is height.

[Body Builder]

what about fighting after LL ,its stupied but if you have to fight with somebody ,would you ready to be as good as you was before or you will look like defective?

We are not fighters but most of the times, the best way to win a fight is to look imposing so noone wants to fight with you.
And height with some good muscles especially in arms and back are enough for the majority of men to not want to fight you.

Although I am not considered tall, I have a relatively good height that with my muscles make me look enough bulk to not be picked for a fight.
I am not as fast or stable as before LL (and I think that has to do more with atl than LL itself) but I look way more imposing than before and if I become 5.11 I'll be much more imposing than now so I doubt that someone would want to fight me, for at least a not very important reason, so I really believe that even if you aren't stronger after LL, you look stronger and that will help you avoid a lot of fights.
After all, we are not in the jungle so I don't think that someone should care if he is not a so capable fighter after LL. After all, most people are not capable in fighting regardless if they did LL or not.

[TIBIKE200]

I better tell all the women who picked me over taller guys that they didn't do what they were supposed to and go with the taller guy