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[Stadiometer]

There are currently two internal lengthening nails in development and/or awaiting FDA & CE approval that are made from Cobalt Chrome/Cobalt Chromium. The first is from an American company NuVasive, they acquired Ellipse Technologies the manufacturer of PRECICE, and the second is SYNOSTE, a combined Finnish & German company.

The most anticipated benefit of an internal limb lengthening nail made from Cobalt Chrome/Cobalt Chromium is the immense strength of the material, which would allow nearly all limb lengthening patients to be fully weight bearing during their lengthening and recovery.

This is an interesting topic for discussion as nothing is perfect in life, and while there are many benefits, there are some drawbacks to using Cobalt Chrome/Cobalt Chromium.

This development does make for a good discussion on the topic of price speculation as well. There are now two companies that are going to potentially compete with each other using a similar product. Typically competition drives down prices and increases quality for the consumer. The lengthening nails are almost always the most expensive portion of the procedure.

For those of us who have been following limb lengthening since the days of the old forum, it's quite amazing to see the progress in terms of technology, quality of the nail and surgeons offering cosmetic limb lengthening, as well as the reduction in pricing. Dr. Birkholtz & Dr. Parihar are prime examples of these positive developments.


NuVasive: http://www.nuvasive.com/

Ellipse Technoliges: http://ellipse-tech.com/

SYNOSTE: http://synoste.com/

[onemorefoot]

Also, can you imagine the crazy cost those nails Will have?

[Rod Thick]

I'm quite skeptical about the approval of these new nails by the FDA. Cobalt and Chrome are well known for liberating in human blood ions able of exerting toxicity and causing cancer.

That's one of the reasons why metal-on-metal hip implants are not being offered anymore (http://www.metalhipcenter.com/diagnoses/cobalt-toxicity/)

It's not only about cobalt, but also about chrome: https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=10&po=10

Millionaire lawsuits have been filed against the manufacturers of those metal-on-metal implants: https://www.mctlawyers.com/joint-replacement/depuy-asr/cobalt-chromium-poisoning/

In short, I don't think early weightbearing is worth the risk of developing cancer in the long term. 

Oh lord....The links you posted are blood sukking personal injury lawyers who will tell you that breathing air and drinking water causes cancer so you better sign up with their law firm so they can get you those millions before you die. There is a huge difference between a single nail that is in your bone for lengthening and taken out after a year and what you posted which is about metal on metal hip implants. Those are rubbing together all day everyday for years and years and years. Causing tremendous amounts of friction which for some small amount of people might lead to corrosion of the metal that might lead to that metal being released into your body and that might cause some even smaller amount of people some health problems and maybe one out of every ten thousand of those even smaller amount of people will get sick.

The odds that any lengthening nail in your tibia's or femur's whether it's cobalt or titanium or stainless steel for a year or so will cause you cancer is practically zero.

[TIBIKE200]

Oh lord....The links you posted are blood sukking personal injury lawyers who will tell you that breathing air and drinking water causes cancer so you better sign up with their law firm so they can get you those millions before you die. There is a huge difference between a single nail that is in your bone for lengthening and taken out after a year and what you posted which is about metal on metal hip implants. Those are rubbing together all day everyday for years and years and years. Causing tremendous amounts of friction which might lead to corrosion of the metal that might lead to that metal being released into your body and that might cause you health problems.

The idea that a cobalt chrome nail in your tibia's or femur's for a year or so will cause you cancer is just ridiculous!

your assumption that having a supposed cancer inducing nail in your body "only" for a year has no stochastic effects is utterly stupid for the simple fact that you dont know. Dont talk about stuff you don't know about. And surely, don't call stuff you have no idea about stupid.

[Rod Thick]

your assumption that having a supposed cancer inducing nail in your body "only" for a year has no stochastic effects is utterly stupid for the simple fact that you dont know. Dont talk about stuff you don't know about. And surely, don't call stuff you have no idea about stupid.

Cancer inducing nail

Oh ok. You read some personal injury lawyers website and now YOU call cobalt chrome cancer inducing.

Thanks for the information and calling me stupid. You seem very intelligent.

[Rod Thick]

Tibike200

Don't let anyone you know put titanium in their body for any reason cause titanium now causes cancer. How do i know this? I read it on the internet so it must be true.

This creates quite a dilemma since practically all nails for LON and LATN are titanium. Precice is titanium. The nails nearly every orthopedic surgeon in the world puts in patients who break their bones are titanium or cobalt chrome. I bet all of those people have cancer by now. So lets see, every person in the world who has ever broken a bone and has a nail or screw or plate or people with tooth fillings or people who have ever used toothpaste now have cancer. Yes, toothpaste has titanium. Toothpaste also has fluoride which is put into the water supply to allow the government to control your mind. I read that on the internet too so you know that's a scientific fact.

I just Googled "titanium implants cause cancer" and got 500,000 hits in 0.64 seconds.

That's it everybody, don't get limb lengthening or else you will get cancer. Let's all thank Tibike200 and Musicmaker for bringing this to our attention. It's time we all moved on now and just accepted our height. It's better to be short than dead or dying from cancer.

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

[682]

While the concerns of the type of metal used are not to be ignored, I can only think of the monumental benefits of a patient being able to be weight bearing immediately after surgery. Not only will this make life much easier post lengthening, it will aid in rehabilitation and recovery and limit atrophy which I personally believe is a major issue in regards to mobility, gait and recovery after surgery.

[KiloKAHN]

It's an undeniable fact that everyone who gets leg lengthening will die someday.

[682]

It's an undeniable fact that everyone who gets leg lengthening will die someday.

I do believe that risks ought to be minimal where possible, but how much of a threat a temporary nail poses realistically in contrast to the undeniable benefits of immediate weight bearing may make the decision a no-brainer.

[notimportant]

Weight bearing is so important! 682 is right about those risks are negligible.

[ouroboros]

Synoste and Nuvasive are huge companies that probably had 1 or 2 "professional" researchers look into this toxicity issue and rule-it out before they invested millions in developing the tooling required to produce these state of the art lengthening nails. I'm sure they know what they are doing, and why they think it's time to consider a superior alternative to titanium for manufacturing lengthening nails. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually end up with a hybrid nail made of both materials to cut down on the cost.

[Stadiometers]

STRYDE

The cosmetic lengthening version of this new Cobalt Chrome nail by NuVasive will be marketed as the STRYDE. Release date will be in approximately 6 months. A true game changer in cosmetic lengthening. Full weight bearing with crutches from day one, complete freedom of mobility, possible continuation of employment with minimal downtime (office work), millimeter by millimeter accuracy with screen read out on ERC, reverse function to prevent runaway nail or treat complications.

NuVasive: https://www.nuvasive.com/

Synoste: http://synoste.com/

[Stadiometers]

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4736.msg80257;topicseen#msg80257

[RealTrump]

A true game changer in cosmetic lengthening. Full weight bearing with crutches from day one

Game changer... but still need crutches huh?

Heard of the Precise or Fitbone? They do the same things.

[Body Builder]

Game changer... but still need crutches huh?

Heard of the Precise or Fitbone? They do the same things.

Wrong.
With current version of precise and fitbone you can't walk at all till you stop lengthening (about 3 months) and after that you can start to walk with crutches.
With stryder and weightbearing from day 1 you would walk with crutches so the difference to anyone that knows how LL works is huge.

[Stadiometers]

Game changer... but still need crutches huh?

Heard of the Precise or Fitbone? They do the same things.

You will not need crutches with STRYDE. Crutches are merely part of the safety protocol. With PRECICE and Fitbone your weight bearing and mobility is severely restricted. You need crutches or the lengthening nail will break. That is a distinct and vitally important difference.

[OverrideYourGenetics]

Synoste and Nuvasive are huge companies that probably had 1 or 2 "professional" researchers look into this toxicity issue and rule-it out before they invested millions in developing the tooling required to produce these state of the art lengthening nails.

Synoste is not huge, and they don't have much experience either. Check their web page:

Contact us

SYNOSTE is a small dynamic team; we are passionate about the development of our first product to help people suffering with Limb Lengthening Discrepancy, so we would be very happy to share information with you during our journey.

They're a startup, which means they could significantly improve the state of the art (Oura is another Finish startup that made sleep tracking much more precise and convenient), or they could flop.

Wrong.
With current version of precise and fitbone you can't walk at all till you stop lengthening (about 3 months) and after that you can start to walk with crutches.

From http://www.paleyinstitute.org/centers-of-excellence/stature-lengthening-center/distraction-phase, Weight-Bearing Precautions:

During lengthening we allow WB using crutches or a walker and unweighting of the legs using the arms. The amount of WB allowed depends on several factors: the weight of the patient, the diameter of the rod, and the bone being lengthened. For the largest diameter, PRECICE 2, 12.5mm, we allow up to 75lbs (34kg) on each leg. This means that when a patient is standing on two legs with two crutches on the ground, they can take up to 150lbs (68kg). However, when walking and transferring load from one leg to the other, the patient must use two crutches on the ground and unweight themselves to the 75lbs (34kg) weight with each step. Patients must never walk with one crutch during the distraction phase, no matter how much they weigh.

Although I'm surprised some PRECICE 2 patients don't seem to be very aware of this.

Here's ProgramDude:

I spent a lot of time in the pool. Almost no time walking in crutches as I was told it wasnt safe- until much later Paley told me it was ok and that the others were wrong.

Other Paley patients (Purushrottam) have been walking with crutches, and 2.5 months after the surgery, started walking up and down stairs with crutches.

[Body Builder]

Synoste is not huge, and they don't have much experience either. Check their web page:

They're a startup, which means they could significantly improve the state of the art (Oura is another Finish startup that made sleep tracking much more precise and convenient), or they could flop.

From http://www.paleyinstitute.org/centers-of-excellence/stature-lengthening-center/distraction-phase, Weight-Bearing Precautions:

Although I'm surprised some PRECICE 2 patients don't seem to be very aware of this.

Here's ProgramDude:
Other Paley patients (Purushrottam) have been walking with crutches, and 2.5 months after the surgery, started walking up and down stairs with crutches.

68 kg for men like me who are 90kg is nothing.
So to prevent nail broking you can't walk during lengthening even with crutches. At least this is what all the doctors who use precise 2 suggest as far as I know.
About 1 month after you stop lengthening you are ready to go with crutches but if you think that a 90kg man is safe to walk (even with crutches) with nails that support max 68kg, I don't think you are right.
But with Stryde all these will not matter.

[OverrideYourGenetics]

68 kg for men like me who are 90kg is nothing.
So to prevent nail broking you can't walk during lengthening even with crutches. At least this is what all the doctors who use precise 2 suggest as far as I know.
About 1 month after you stop lengthening you are ready to go with crutches but if you think that a 90kg man is safe to walk (even with crutches) with nails that support max 68kg, I don't think you are right.

I'm not an LL surgeon, so I don't know how safe it would be to walk with crutches rated for 68kg max if you're 90kg. But keep in mind that when walking with crutches, you unweight the legs using your arms, so the weight you put on the crutches will be lower than 90kg. How much lower, you could estimate by doing assisted dips, something that you Bodybuilder are probably really good at.

I'm 74kg now and will be losing some weight until the surgery and during the recovery. I've also been training my triceps for the past two months and do 100 assisted dips (10 sets x 10 reps) every other day, decreasing the assistance progressively. I'm at ~13kg / 30lbs of assistance now for the whole 100, which is (sort of) the weight the legs would take. Comfortably below 68kg, and that's for the whole 100 - I'll see today at the gym how many unassisted dips I can do without break.

Anyway, I'm not a doctor, so I've asked Dr. Paley about this, keeping in mind that I'll be doing tibias+femurs at the same time (so 2 nails / leg). He said,

"For short distances inside buildings you will likely be on crutches or a walker. For longer distances you will elect to use the wheelchair e.g. going to the mall."

But with Stryde all these will not matter.

That would be really great. From what I've read on the forum, the best exercise for recovery is walking.

For those doing LL before STRYDE though, I would encourage double checking with the surgeon and the PT team how safe it would be to use crutches or a walker, given their weight.

And get to work on those triceps anyway!