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[Mivsta101]

Doing LL isnt irrational at all. Its completely normal. Anyone here that is at the very least 5'4 and above should feel lucky though. Gaining 5 inches would put you at average. Think about the people that are midgets, 5'0 etc. Those that are 5'4-5'6 have a strong chance at becoming 5'10 which would be ideal. All my life ive been concerned about my height but i never really knew the importance of having a good diet. My diet was  ty as fk and thats the reason i think i ended up being shorter than my brother who is above 5'8. Im about 5'7.5 now though. Ive grown a few inches in the past year or so by having a better diet, but i wish i would have had a better diet alot sooner. I know i would have been 6' at the least. I started puberty late, at around 15-16. I also just recently made the assumption that i most likely needed hgh injections when younger but i got sent to a  ty endicrinologist that didnt even take bloodwork and assumed id be short bcus my parents were short. At 16 i could have easily saved myself with hgh injections because my growth plates were wide open. But i didnt think at that age they were open. I only knew this up until recently. One thing we all have in common though is that we all ended up short. Not sure if any of you ended up naturally short, or stayed short for a medical reason. Either way though, LL is worth it. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise. You just have to know what you are getting into. Im 5'7.5 with a 5'6 wingspan. It sucks. I always hope that i can keep on growing into my 20s, and thats why ill be injecting hgh starting next month to see if i can dodge a bullet with LL. I did see some height growth after 18, and im very lucky because had i stayed 5'4 or even 5'0 which was my height as a freshman, id be in a very fked up position. Especially at 5'0.

[CaptainAmerica]

Doing LL isnt irrational at all. Its completely normal. Anyone here that is at the very least 5'4 and above should feel lucky though. Gaining 5 inches would put you at average. Think about the people that are midgets, 5'0 etc. Those that are 5'4-5'6 have a strong chance at becoming 5'10 which would be ideal. All my life ive been concerned about my height but i never really knew the importance of having a good diet. My diet was crapty as fk and thats the reason i think i ended up being shorter than my brother who is above 5'8. Im about 5'7.5 now though. Ive grown a few inches in the past year or so by having a better diet, but i wish i would have had a better diet alot sooner. I know i would have been 6' at the least. I started puberty late, at around 15-16. I also just recently made the assumption that i most likely needed hgh injections when younger but i got sent to a crapty endicrinologist that didnt even take bloodwork and assumed id be short bcus my parents were short. At 16 i could have easily saved myself with hgh injections because my growth plates were wide open. But i didnt think at that age they were open. I only knew this up until recently. One thing we all have in common though is that we all ended up short. Not sure if any of you ended up naturally short, or stayed short for a medical reason. Either way though, LL is worth it. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise. You just have to know what you are getting into. Im 5'7.5 with a 5'6 wingspan. It sucks. I always hope that i can keep on growing into my 20s, and thats why ill be injecting hgh starting next month to see if i can dodge a bullet with LL. I did see some height growth after 18, and im very lucky because had i stayed 5'4 or even 5'0 which was my height as a freshman, id be in a very fked up position. Especially at 5'0.

WTF?? You grew! Damn dude I am so happy for you! I remember seeing you post on here about a year ago. Wow congratulations! Hope you keep on growing and get to skip out on LL altogether:)

[IwannaBeTaller]

Ive grown a few inches in the past year or so by having a better diet, but i wish i would have had a better diet alot sooner. I know i would have been 6' at the least.

No way to know that, only speculation. Also, a 5'4'' person has very slim chances of ever reaching 5'10'' with LL.

[CaptainAmerica]

No way to know that, only speculation. Also, a 5'4'' person has very slim chances of ever reaching 5'10'' with LL.

Why does this forum always try to cope so hard? Yes, your caloric intake and diet CAN/DO stunt your potential growth. Do you think your body is just supposed to generate new bone and flesh materials from dark matter? Why have the Dutch increased in 3 generations from being the shortest in the world to the tallest?

A lot of us here stunted our growth due to our poor eating habits or upbringings. That's a reality we have to accept, for the sake of other teens who could be reading this right now.

STUFF YOUR fkING FACE!!! If you're not a little bit chubby as a teen you're doing it wrong!!!

[TIBIKE200]

Why does this forum always try to cope so hard? Yes, your caloric intake and diet CAN/DO stunt your potential growth. Do you think your body is just supposed to generate new bone and flesh materials from dark matter? Why have the Dutch increased in 3 generations from being the shortest in the world to the tallest?

A lot of us here stunted our growth due to our poor eating habits or upbringings. That's a reality we have to accept, for the sake of other teens who could be reading this right now.

STUFF YOUR fkING FACE!!! If you're not a little bit chubby as a teen you're doing it wrong!!!

I was chubby and am 5'7... So? What did i do wrong?

[CaptainAmerica]

I was chubby and am 5'7... So? What did i do wrong?

Mate I was slightly underweight and I'm currently 5'4 maybe I could've been you! 

[TIBIKE200]

Mate I was slightly underweight and I'm currently 5'4 maybe I could've been you! 

My half brother was also underweight😃  he is 184cm now

[onemorefoot]

I am almost a pig and where are my 6´? Just joke, in this century almost nobody ends short because of alimentation wheter genetics and luck.

[IwannaBeTaller]

Why does this forum always try to cope so hard? Yes, your caloric intake and diet CAN/DO stunt your potential growth. Do you think your body is just supposed to generate new bone and flesh materials from dark matter? Why have the Dutch increased in 3 generations from being the shortest in the world to the tallest?

A lot of us here stunted our growth due to our poor eating habits or upbringings. That's a reality we have to accept, for the sake of other teens who could be reading this right now.

STUFF YOUR fkING FACE!!! If you're not a little bit chubby as a teen you're doing it wrong!!!

Dude, really..."cope"? Ignoring that I find this 4chan term idiotic, yes, it's a way to cope for me that it's a known fact, that no doctor, or scientist in this world can ever prove if, or by how much I stunted my growth. This fact helps me because it soothes the feeling of guilt over my lifestyle as a teenager. It's one thing to say that your could have optimized your growth (not "stunt") if you had a perfect lifestyle with a nutrition coach and no stress at all. It's another thing to say that a 5'7'' guy could definitely have achieved 6 feet if he "stuffed his face". That's unscientific garbage and every doctor will tell you so.

Adding to that, teenage years are a hard time because of the hormonal stress, bullying and performance pressure. And eating habits can be very hard to change. Even if you went back in time and ordered your former teenage self to eat more protein, calcium, calories and vitamin D, he might tell you to fk off and would resume to eating his Burger King meal and playing World of Warcraft, because that was the only thing that helped him to ease his teenage stress. Such is life.

Of course we should also not forget that millions of teenagers are skinny and lanky, and live unhealthy, and still reach very normal heights. You will not ever know if or by how much you stunted your growth. Let me repeat that: You will never know if or by how much you stunted your growth.

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

My half brother was also underweight😃  he is 184cm now

My uncles were thin fcks and now they are around 200cm.
I was eating like a truck and ended up 166cm lmao.

So many desperate people here trying to justify their height. Hey guys time to face the facts, you got jacked off in a genetic lottery.

[CaptainAmerica]

My uncles were thin fcks and now they are around 200cm.
I was eating like a truck and ended up 166cm lmao.

So many desperate people here trying to justify their height. Hey guys time to face the facts, you got jacked off in a genetic lottery.

Yes the genetic lottery loaded the chamber but my awful eating/sleeping habits pulled the trigger. That's the reality of it, and it's over. For anyone else still growing, we should encourage them to not be underweight, exercise (Sprinting / swimming release a lot of HGH), and sleep 8+ hours day to reach their full genetic potential. I have no idea why this suggestion bothers everyone here so much.

If you start eating enough while you're still growing, recovery can occur:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6877321

I think that's happened to Cristian.

Look, it's not hard as a kid to not get enough calories. You skip breakfast, get a tiny ~400 calorie meal at school for lunch, come home, eat ~600 calories for dinner and go to sleep. You're at ~60% of the caloric intake you need to grow to your full potential. That's how easy it is to stunt your growth. As I said earlier, if you're still a teen: STUFF YOUR fkING FACE!!!!!!!

[Whereintheworld?]

A lot of us here stunted our growth due to our poor eating habits or upbringings. That's a reality we have to accept, for the sake of other teens who could be reading this right now.

STUFF YOUR fkING FACE!!! If you're not a little bit chubby as a teen you're doing it wrong!!!

Let's not pretend that this reluctant acceptance of reality is anything other than a feel good notion that provides a
 quasi-moral/principled reason for going through with LL.
I sympathize with you man, I truly do, we all do, but for the sake of those teens you mentioned who could be reading this right now, please don't give them a false sense of hope that could result in their being overweight and/or unhealthy otherwise.

As to the Dutch, a study came out last year that attributed their height to natural selection.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/08/scientists-try-to-answer-why-dutch-people-are-so-tall

[CaptainAmerica]

Let's not pretend that this reluctant acceptance of reality is anything other than a feel good notion that provides a
 quasi-moral/principled reason for going through with LL.
I sympathize with you man, I truly do, we all do, but for the sake of those teens you mentioned who could be reading this right now, please don't give them a false sense of hope that could result in their being overweight and/or unhealthy otherwise.

As to the Dutch, a study came out last year that attributed their height to natural selection.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/08/scientists-try-to-answer-why-dutch-people-are-so-tall

Devastating. LOL, that's honestly almost worse than knowing it was nutrition.

[Whereintheworld?]

Devastating. LOL, that's honestly almost worse than knowing it was nutrition.

Now I'm playing the Devil's advocate here, but it very well could be nutrition in some cases. My grandfather and his brothers were all well over 6'0, with the exception being the eldest who grew up during the Great Depression, he was only 5'4.

[IwannaBeTaller]

Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook elemantary shooter was an anorexic, skinny basement dweller. He was only 112 lbs and reports say he might have suffered from anorexia. But he still grew to 6 foot. Obviously now you could say that because of his lifestyle, he also stunted his growth and should have been 6'3'' or something with better nutrition. But still his body managed to distribute enough energy to his growth plates, despite his apparently horrible malnutrition. That tells us something, no?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting#Perpetrator

[Premedlegs1994]

If you have something concrete to share about Dr. Paley, the entire forum, myself included, would appreciate it. If you do not, please do not slander (this goes for any Dr., not just Dr. Paley).

That said, I'd love to know what you found that I could not, I dug pretty deep, with the help of another Dr.

https://www.ratemds.com/doctor-ratings/30268/Dr-Dror-Paley-West+Palm+Beach-FL.html

https://sites.google.com/site/mycrippledleg/home/dr-paley-2-html

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-doctor-dror-paley-20160318-story.html

[Thatdude950]

Yes, because it's a coping mechanism and distraction. Whatever height you are, there are millions of men that have just got on with it. The fact you haven't shows that you are the problem. A few extra inches won't suddenly have people respect you, get you a job, have women interested etc. what are you gonna do when you're a bit taller and everything is exactly the same?

[jbc]

https://www.ratemds.com/doctor-ratings/30268/Dr-Dror-Paley-West+Palm+Beach-FL.html

https://sites.google.com/site/mycrippledleg/home/dr-paley-2-html

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-doctor-dror-paley-20160318-story.html

Are you kidding, this is what you have? Some anonymous ratings and a half-baked blog post?

I'm certain of several things. One, that over the course of his near 40 year career, Dr. Paley has made some mistakes, maybe some resulting in patient disability. When you've done that many procedures, statistics indicate that you're going to make mistakes. It's inevitable.

Second, that this would be true for any Dr. in any specialty over the same period of time with the same amount of procedures. Again, statistics and law of averages.

Third, that Dr. Paley has probably contributed more to CLL than any other Dr. on the planet. He trained a good portion of the other surgeons on this board. He's pictured with Dr. Guichet as having helped develop the Albizzia nail. He helped develop the Precise, the Precise 2, and is the lead researcher for the full weight bearing Precise.

Fourth, he's responsible for 1/6th of all the Precise CLL procedures worldwide.

Fifth, he's renowned not just for CLL, but for limb lengthening and limb reconstruction. I visited his facility. It was full of malformed kids, mostly. One family shared that they fought immigration laws in their home country for nearly a year to have a chance for their little boy to have surgery with Dr. Paley, and their little boy is now on the road to full recovery.

Sixth, that you can probably not find someone as qualified anywhere else to have this procedure. He has practically an entire hospital dedicated to doing this type of work.

No Dr. worth their salt is free from mistakes. My father was a Dr. for over 40 years, and he lost patients. He was also known as one of Europe's best Dr's. in his specialty.

CLL is an invasive, complicated procedure, and those that have done it or considering it are unquestionably taking on a significant amount of risk where a lot of things can go wrong. I'll take Dr. Paley over pretty much anyone to do this for a couple of reasons: one, reading through every diary on this board, and having met several of his patients, Dr. Paley's patients consistently have the lowest amount of complications. Second, his experience, including the mistakes he made. It's partially because of those mistakes, as sad as that is, that he is the best in his field at what he does.

[Premedlegs1994]

Are you kidding, this is what you have? Some anonymous ratings and a half-baked blog post?

I'm certain of several things. One, that over the course of his near 40 year career, Dr. Paley has made some mistakes, maybe some resulting in patient disability. When you've done that many procedures, statistics indicate that you're going to make mistakes. It's inevitable.

Second, that this would be true for any Dr. in any specialty over the same period of time with the same amount of procedures. Again, statistics and law of averages.

Third, that Dr. Paley has probably contributed more to CLL than any other Dr. on the planet. He trained a good portion of the other surgeons on this board. He's pictured with Dr. Guichet as having helped develop the Albizzia nail. He helped develop the Precise, the Precise 2, and is the lead researcher for the full weight bearing Precise.

Fourth, he's responsible for 1/6th of all the Precise CLL procedures worldwide.

Fifth, he's renowned not just for CLL, but for limb lengthening and limb reconstruction. I visited his facility. It was full of malformed kids, mostly. One family shared that they fought immigration laws in their home country for nearly a year to have a chance for their little boy to have surgery with Dr. Paley, and their little boy is now on the road to full recovery.

Sixth, that you can probably not find someone as qualified anywhere else to have this procedure. He has practically an entire hospital dedicated to doing this type of work.

No Dr. worth their salt is free from mistakes. My father was a Dr. for over 40 years, and he lost patients. He was also known as one of Europe's best Dr's. in his specialty.

CLL is an invasive, complicated procedure, and those that have done it or considering it are unquestionably taking on a significant amount of risk where a lot of things can go wrong. I'll take Dr. Paley over pretty much anyone to do this for a couple of reasons: one, reading through every diary on this board, and having met several of his patients, Dr. Paley's patients consistently have the lowest amount of complications. Second, his experience, including the mistakes he made. It's partially because of those mistakes, as sad as that is, that he is the best in his field at what he does.

someone has also reported on here that a patient of Dr. Paley died during LL last year as well.
He puts money>patient health as confirmed by the links provided.
All I have to say is Dr. Paley cares a lot about money. That was why he was dismissed from Baltimore. He was greedy for making more even when he is considered the top orthapedic surgeon in the world for LL and deformities by people on here.
He tried to cheat the system because his gf was the representative of the company who supplied frames to him and he made a lot of money of getting partial shares.

[James24]

So try to find out why you want this.. You are Persian no? Iranians arent tall....

Why do "women" have to be the only reason this seems logical..

I've experienced puberty early among my family and i am the shortest among the entire family.
This gives me a feeling of being small, inferior and it irritates me. I feel like i'm lacking what i could have potentially been.

Women, succeeding in life, or anything in that field is not my concern.
People obviously have different reasons for doing this.

[James24]

Are you kidding, this is what you have? Some anonymous ratings and a half-baked blog post?

I'm certain of several things. One, that over the course of his near 40 year career, Dr. Paley has made some mistakes, maybe some resulting in patient disability. When you've done that many procedures, statistics indicate that you're going to make mistakes. It's inevitable.

Second, that this would be true for any Dr. in any specialty over the same period of time with the same amount of procedures. Again, statistics and law of averages.

Third, that Dr. Paley has probably contributed more to CLL than any other Dr. on the planet. He trained a good portion of the other surgeons on this board. He's pictured with Dr. Guichet as having helped develop the Albizzia nail. He helped develop the Precise, the Precise 2, and is the lead researcher for the full weight bearing Precise.

Fourth, he's responsible for 1/6th of all the Precise CLL procedures worldwide.

Fifth, he's renowned not just for CLL, but for limb lengthening and limb reconstruction. I visited his facility. It was full of malformed kids, mostly. One family shared that they fought immigration laws in their home country for nearly a year to have a chance for their little boy to have surgery with Dr. Paley, and their little boy is now on the road to full recovery.

Sixth, that you can probably not find someone as qualified anywhere else to have this procedure. He has practically an entire hospital dedicated to doing this type of work.

No Dr. worth their salt is free from mistakes. My father was a Dr. for over 40 years, and he lost patients. He was also known as one of Europe's best Dr's. in his specialty.

CLL is an invasive, complicated procedure, and those that have done it or considering it are unquestionably taking on a significant amount of risk where a lot of things can go wrong. I'll take Dr. Paley over pretty much anyone to do this for a couple of reasons: one, reading through every diary on this board, and having met several of his patients, Dr. Paley's patients consistently have the lowest amount of complications. Second, his experience, including the mistakes he made. It's partially because of those mistakes, as sad as that is, that he is the best in his field at what he does.

Exactly dude ..
This is the whole deal of the surgery..

No one is ever perfect. Even doctors that have spent years of study, research and experience
Nothing is ever 100% and people "will" make mistakes..

That's why this surgery isn't for anyone. It's not just like, "Oh i have everything i need in life.., i'm 5'11, a few cm's to get to 6ft would be nice ..... let me do a surgery"

No.

You must know the consequences and the risks you're getting yourself into.

You must be either extremely desperate, Depressed or deformed.

An "irrational" thought, would be considering surgery as the first option.
A more rational approach, would be to try everything you can, including therapy, before you make a decision as serious as this.

[TIBIKE200]

Yes, because it's a coping mechanism and distraction. Whatever height you are, there are millions of men that have just got on with it. The fact you haven't shows that you are the problem. A few extra inches won't suddenly have people respect you, get you a job, have women interested etc. what are you gonna do when you're a bit taller and everything is exactly the same?

I agree with you about everything besides women...

 All people I have spoken with (some are from here with whom I talked via pm) said an improvement with women. Common dude... You can't by any means believe that being 5'3 isnt hindering your dating life...  That is like lying to yourself beyond normality...

 All people who got to average height from short are happy and said a big change in the dating aspect (and dating aspect alone)... The only guys who didnt notice any change are either the average ones who became tall or the ugly ones

[jbc]

someone has also reported on here that a patient of Dr. Paley died during LL last year as well.
He puts money>patient health as confirmed by the links provided.
All I have to say is Dr. Paley cares a lot about money. That was why he was dismissed from Baltimore. He was greedy for making more even when he is considered the top orthapedic surgeon in the world for LL and deformities by people on here.
He tried to cheat the system because his gf was the representative of the company who supplied frames to him and he made a lot of money of getting partial shares.

Bolding for emphasis:

"someone has also reported on here that a patient of Dr. Paley died during LL last year as well."

This is 100% false. This kind of stuff can easily be verified. I asked Dr. Packer to see Dr. Paley's statistics, he gladly shares them. Dr. Paley also states, publicly, that he's never had anyone die from LL.

As far as being motivated by money - most people are, Dr's. being no exception. Honestly, the perfect Dr. for me is one who could care less about me personally, but is obsessive about getting the best end result for each case. Kind of like Dr. House. If all Dr. Paley (or any other Dr., for that matter) cares about is ensuring the best possible outcome for my procedure without having the least bit of a personal connection and minimal empathy, that's 100% fine by me. I'd much rather have a non-emphatic brilliant genius operate on me and be in charge of my care post-op than a really caring mediocre surgeon.

By the way, it's not only the primary surgeon that is responsible for the success of your procedure, aside from you and the preparation you put in pre-op, it's the supporting cast and organization around the Dr. In Dr. Paley's case, everyone, from the assisting surgeon, Dr. Packer, who is awesome, to the PT people, the front desk, the transportation driver, and the hotels connected, all function in a cadence and rhythm that is so incredibly precise, I've yet to see from any other Dr. I visited.

My last post on this topic, please troll elsewhere.

[Thatdude950]

I agree with you about everything besides women...

 All people I have spoken with (some are from here with whom I talked via pm) said an improvement with women. Common dude... You can't by any means believe that being 5'3 isnt hindering your dating life...  That is like lying to yourself beyond normality...

 All people who got to average height from short are happy and said a big change in the dating aspect (and dating aspect alone)... The only guys who didnt notice any change are either the average ones who became tall or the ugly ones

If you can't get laid at 5'3, you won't be able to at 5'5. If you can get laid at 5'3, you will be able to get laid to 5'5. Nothing changes. So what's the point.

[Whereintheworld?]

If you can't get laid at 5'3, you won't be able to at 5'5. If you can get laid at 5'3, you will be able to get laid to 5'5. Nothing changes. So what's the point.

So basically, a man's height does not come into play with regard to dating?

[The Kaiser]

So basically, a man's height does not come into play with regard to dating?

Its a bonus there're more different aspects. Personalities, sweet tongue and your pocket is the most important factor

[Thatdude950]

So basically, a man's height does not come into play with regard to dating?

It comes into play. A guy who's 6'2 is going to on average be better off that someone 5'5. I'm saying 2 inches makes next to no difference.

[TIBIKE200]

It comes into play. A guy who's 6'2 is going to on average be better off that someone 5'5. I'm saying 2 inches makes next to no difference.

2 inches might be nothing for a 5'3 guy... But a 5'6-5'7 getting 2-3 inches is alot. Is you are going to say that a 5'7 guy becoming 5'10 is nothing... You live in denial

[DreamOf180cm]

It comes into play. A guy who's 6'2 is going to on average be better off that someone 5'5. I'm saying 2 inches makes next to no difference.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. 5'7.5 to 5'9.5 is no difference? You're going from
below to average to average height. The fact that you know you're average height for one is going to boost your confidence. You'll also spend less energy doing height experiements and   and spend energy on yourself which will undoubtfully lead to a better YOU.

Better YOU would get more girls? Am I wrong here?

[Thatdude950]

2 inches might be nothing for a 5'3 guy... But a 5'6-5'7 getting 2-3 inches is alot. Is you are going to say that a 5'7 guy becoming 5'10 is nothing... You live in denial

the accepted "safe" (if you can really call it that) lengthening on this forum is 5cm or 2 inches. If you wanna bump it up to 3 inches you're starting to get closer to something that might make more than a tiny difference but you are risking living a normal life in the process.

Dream of 180 If you really think 2 inches make a huge difference why not wear lifts for 6 months and report back. Let's see what kind of difference it makes. My bet is next to nothing. You are still you.

[DreamOf180cm]

Dream of 180 If you really think 2 inches make a huge difference why not wear lifts for 6 months and report back. Let's see what kind of difference it makes. My bet is next to nothing. You are still you.

Lifts are a different story. First of all I've read a lot about lifts and many people say they feel like a 'jack ass' when they wear them. Second of all, lifts will create a whole other obsession as you will always try to wear them. What about going to a house party and getting asked to take your shoes off? What about going to the beach? A friends pool? You really think its healthy creating another obsession where you are worried because you're going to be caught "liftless" or being caught wearing lifts? What if you meet the girl of your dreams with your lifts and you're taller than her then next thing you know you're shorter than her without lifts and she leaves you. How would you feel? That's right you'd probably message barinov/parihar and book your ticket next month before you end up cutting up your own legs. Lifts would do more bad than good and would want to make you get LL asap so you can keep that height without sticking peices of asian plastic in your shoes.

5'7 TO 5'9 = LIFE CHANGER
5'7 TO 5'10 = You're an unstoppable beast at this point.