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[Random Hero]

Hi all,

Have been reading the forums for a while now but only just made an account as I'm loving the content especially the diaries people have devoted so much time to writing.
I have always been upset about my height as it makes me feel inferior and no matter how successful I become my height will always be the thing people remember about me, it's as if I need to be more handsome, more charming and more charismatic than someone taller than me just to be even and it drives me crazy!

It's made dating difficult because even if that person doesn't think of height as a meaningful attribute (which is rare) the thoughts in my head about being inferior are always there and how can I expect someone to love me if I don't love myself?
The solution to this problem is not therapy; therapy doesn't stop girls saying if you were just a bit taller you would be perfect or guys squaring up to you trying to intimidate you because they think short equates to weak.
The solution is most definitely leg lengthening however as I'm sure most of you are aware it is prohibitively expensive allowing only the most fortunate to undergo the surgery.

I have built up a stock portfolio currently valued at £25,000 and with an estimated gain of 20% per annum and investing £12,000 extra per annum I will be a millionaire on my 40th birthday....
my question is if you are constantly suffering mentally due to height neurosis at 25 would you spend all the money you saved (and take out £25,000 loan) to cure your mental illness at the cost of not becoming a millionaire?
I'm leaning towards spending everything and taking a loan out to cure myself of this illness so I can lead a normal, happy life.

I've already wasted two years of what should be the best years of my life being depressed. I honestly don't think I can take another year; I want to find someone to create memories with and love not sat in my room at the weekend crying because of how much this dictates my life and stops me from going out and meeting new people.

What are others thoughts? what would you do in my situation?

[ub40]

Hi all,

Have been reading the forums for a while now but only just made an account as I'm loving the content especially the diaries people have devoted so much time to writing.
I have always been upset about my height as it makes me feel inferior and no matter how successful I become my height will always be the thing people remember about me, it's as if I need to be more handsome, more charming and more charismatic than someone taller than me just to be even and it drives me crazy!
It's made dating difficult because even if that person doesn't think of height as a meaningful attribute (which is rare) the thoughts in my head about being inferior are always there and how can I expect someone to love me if I don't love myself?
The solution to this problem is not therapy; therapy doesn't stop girls saying if you were just a bit taller you would be perfect or guys squaring up to you trying to intimidate you because they think short equates to weak.
The solution is most definitely leg lengthening however as I'm sure most of you are aware it is prohibitively expensive allowing only the most fortunate to undergo the surgery.
I have built up a stock portfolio currently valued at £25,000 and with an estimated gain of 20% per annum and investing £12,000 extra per annum I will be a millionaire on my 40th birthday....
my question is if you are constantly suffering mentally due to height neurosis at 25 would you spend all the money you saved (and take out £25,000 loan) at the cost of not becoming a millionaire?
I'm leaning towards spending everything and taking a loan out to cure myself of this illness so I can lead a normal, happy life but what are others thoughts? what would you do in my situation?

Hi there, I would take the million dollars of course. But the thing is you can't guarantee that you can make 20%. If you could then you could trade with borrowed money, and still do your surgery.

Also as someone who trades, when you're trading 10k, you're going to act differently than when you're trading 100k, you will take your profits and losses much sooner, potentially ruining your system.

Anyways, feel free to pm. I love talking stocks and am interested in your method.

[TnaTna]

Go for it.
You're young. Doing it at 40 year old would prevent you from living your next 15 years happily. You can book a cheap surgeon if you've got time and will anyway, and not to spend as much as 25 000 £.

[Penguinn]

£25,000 is good enough to have externals in India or China and gain 6cms. You will also lose a lot of time though.

[Mtall]

I would sell my portfolio and do the surgery.
If height is the only thing holding you back, do the surgery.
Don't live a life of "what if"s.

Remember: In the end, we regret the most the things we didn't do

[Alu]

Have you really actually tried to see a shrink? I'm asking because a lot of what you're saying seems to boil down to just basic narcissism. Sorry to say, but even if you get LL and get to 5'11 your mindset will still hold you back. There's always someone who's better than you: deal with it (the inverse can be said too..)

I feel like you're oversimplified a lot about life. Unless you might live in the Netherlands or a secret  town in which everyone is 6+, the amount of crap you think you're getting from you height should all be in your head. I don't know your life story (and frankly don't care), so I'm not going to over speculate to much, but the comment "no matter how successful I become my height will always be the thing people remember about me"
screams disillusion.

For your last paragraph: go out there already. Don't waste away your time hold up in some hole thinking you'll never find love or compassion because of height. Try that before you go for the last resort of LL.

[TIBIKE200]

height or wealth?

 Height. Since wealth can be accumulated while it's better to do LL as young as possible.

 I must admit that at first I thought you were really short.... Than I saw you are 5'8. You are "only" 2 inches below average height in the vast majority of the western world... I doubt anyone see you as short or even thinks about your height.. If you were short (like 5'4 and below) believe me that people would have talked about that behind you back...

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

"no matter how successful I become my height will always be the thing people remember about me"

I agree with Alu, this statement is just eh...

I think people will remember your character and behaviour. If you pass this gate then people care about your looks.

Easy example: in my school there was a 6'2 guy, well built etc but no girl wanted to date him beacuse he was an absolute imbecile.

[The Kaiser]

Of course wealth is more important (socially, sexually, and position) many billionaires are short 5'1-5'3 and have the best social, dominant and sexual skills. look at Justin bieber he's handsome but not tall probably 171 but his 300$ million made him something when he was nothing. carlos salim and many many, are very short and tall people beg for them. so wealth is more important of course.

[Bigpoppapump]

Its a tough question

Height neurosis or short stature is beyond horrible it truly is and i sympathise i can relate to your story and have a lot of sympathy. I suffered the exact same things, women would say 'yeah your handsome, good looking etc but youre too short' etc etc etc. its as frustrating as hell! You feel bitter and angry and it eventually consumes your life.

If you want the surgery done id either do it now or not at all. You must realise though that this surgery comes at costs not just money wise it would be great if that was all it was but it isnt. At 5-8 id advise you to do 5cms on tibias or something similar on femurs, there are pros and cons to both that you must be aware of. Doing tibias you will eventually lose dorsiflexion at a certain point, you may very well be able to regain some but not much or anynat all if you overlengthen. Dorsiflexion is critical for a number of movements for the body and without it walking will become very awkward. Running properly will be a thing of the past. A number of gym movements will become very difficult if not impossible to do safely. If you are into athletic things think very hard about this surgery. If you are an individual who is like the rest of the population who gets up works, goes hime watches soaps, then goes to bed and does this year after year then fine go get it as the difference to your life is minimal.

Its a horrible thing height neurosis or just being short in general but to cure one thing you are potentially swapping one problem with another. There are people on these boards who have never done the surgery who are obviously under the impression that you gain 2-3" then you go home do some stretches let the bone consolidate and you then carry on with life as normal, this isnt the case.

The problem with these boards is any questions regardingthe issues caused by this surgery are generally not answered or ignored. There are too many folk on here that obsess over nonsense like proportions when there is far bigger things to worry about, like making sure you dont overlengthen and screw yourself up. You wont guve a fk about your arms being 1" too short for your body if you cant walk properly again.

If you had cash like a million there would be plenty of women who would be keen on you, theres little difference between a woman who goes for a guy whos rich or one who goes for one who is tall simply because they are either rich or tall. Both will fail as money can only buy so much happiness but someone who is tall will eventually be surplus to requirements as well as the height thing will grow old similar to the material posessions they bought with your money either way both types of women are not the types you want.

I dont get women whongo for for guys simply because they are tall, its the equivalent of guys going with women because they have big tits but literally nothing else going for them

[Random Hero]

Hi there, I would take the million dollars of course. But the thing is you can't guarantee that you can make 20%. If you could then you could trade with borrowed money, and still do your surgery.

No I definitely can't guarantee a 20% return per annum otherwise I'd be in canary warf managing my own hedge fund! haha
I've just struck lucky this year capitalizing on oil tanking and the post brexit rally on banking stocks, after two more years of solid performance I'll start gearing my account; I just want to be sure I can consistently win before gambling someone else's money that will have to be paid back whether I win or lose.

Also as someone who trades, when you're trading 10k, you're going to act differently than when you're trading 100k, you will take your profits and losses much sooner, potentially ruining your system.

haha your right I can't even get my head round having holdings worth ~£200,000 each; technically the strategy shouldn't change but I can imagine if I lost 10% on a £200,000 holding I'd lose my s***t and panic sell whereas I can accept that loss on a small account.
I'm just going to have to forget about those extra zero's...easier said than done though!

Anyways, feel free to pm. I love talking stocks and am interested in your method.

Will do cheers; I use technical analysis to swing trade (I'm a big Thomas Bulkowski fan if you've heard of him).

[Random Hero]

£25,000 is good enough to have externals in India or China and gain 6cms. You will also lose a lot of time though.

Hi Penguinn really enjoyed reading your diary!
I would feel much safer having the surgery carried out in my home country by Dr. Guichet also having my aunt who is a nurse funnily enough lives in London so I can stay with her whilst undergoing my post op physio and lengthening also having my father able to care for me in the lengthening stage is a huge benefit I want to use to my advantage.

My goal is 80mm (~3") and I want to be back at work in 8-10 weeks, if that entails using crutches at work so be it.

[The Kaiser]

Hi Penguinn really enjoyed reading your diary!
I would feel much safer having the surgery carried out in my home country by Dr. Guichet also having my aunt who is a nurse funnily enough lives in London so I can stay with her whilst undergoing my post op physio and lengthening also having my father able to care for me in the lengthening stage is a huge benefit I want to use to my advantage.

My goal is 80mm (~3") and I want to be back at work in 8-10 weeks, if that entails using crutches at work so be it.

80 mm is 3.25" inches. you need more time then. 7 cm you can gain it in two months with Guichet, then you can go back immediately but its preferable to stay an extra week there so lets say 65 days for 7 cm. good luck

[Random Hero]

Have you really actually tried to see a shrink? I'm asking because a lot of what you're saying seems to boil down to just basic narcissism. Sorry to say, but even if you get LL and get to 5'11 your mindset will still hold you back. There's always someone who's better than you: deal with it (the inverse can be said too..)

I've just hired one, only on my fourth session now but I have explained the procedure and my feelings to which she agreed that surgery could be a very real solution however when talking to a close friend about my shrink's acceptance of the idea he said she was irresponsible.

I admit have self image problems due to a previous relationship ending however I am not seeking gratification from others I'm looking for acceptance with myself.
I'm going to sound like a serial plastic surgery fiend now but I've already had a septoplasty/rhinoplasty and I can now look in the mirror and feel happy about my face when I previously could not look at myself...I imagine the same will be true about my height it's the only thing I'd change about myself.

I understand there is always a bigger fish but it's not about being the best, 5"11 would put me in the 75th percentile as opposed to my current height of 5"8 which is the 25th percentile which I see as a huge difference and I couldn't ask for anymore than that. 

I feel like you're oversimplified a lot about life. Unless you might live in the Netherlands or a secret  town in which everyone is 6+, the amount of crap you think you're getting from you height should all be in your head. I don't know your life story (and frankly don't care), so I'm not going to over speculate to much, but the comment "no matter how successful I become my height will always be the thing people remember about me"
screams disillusion.

No secret giant town haha I live in the UK; I'm not openly discriminated against but I will be overlooked for someone with similar looks etc who is taller; this surgery will statistically mean that this would only occur 25% of the time as opposed to 75% of the time going off the percentile's I mentioned earlier.

For your last paragraph: go out there already. Don't waste away your time hold up in some hole thinking you'll never find love or compassion because of height. Try that before you go for the last resort of LL.

I'm trying; I know I'll get there eventually and hopefully my shrink can help speed up the process a little
Means a lot that you would take your time to express your opinion and give your advise to a complete stranger so thank you!

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

I'm going to sound like a serial plastic surgery fiend now but I've already had a septoplasty/rhinoplasty

For this you should be already disqualified from any LL related surgery.

I've just hired one, only on my fourth session now but I have explained the procedure and my feelings to which she agreed that surgery could be a very real solution however when talking to a close friend about my shrink's acceptance of the idea he said she was irresponsible.

Did you explained to her eventual complications? Risks of never walking again?
Shrink isn't supposed to give you "acceptance", she is supposed to give you some kind of perspective.

LL always is the last resort, don't forget that.

[Alu]

For this you should be already disqualified from any LL related surgery.

LL always is the last resort, don't forget that.

Ehh sure it can say a lot about his mentality, but having rhinoplasty isn't the absolute worst thing out there. I do agree with your last statement though....

With that in mind, OP I do think you're not well-informed about how long and arduous this procedure can be... It's going to take a full year before you go back to functioning like a normal person; if no complications arise..

[Random Hero]

For this you should be already disqualified from any LL related surgery.

haha that's quite an assumption to jump to why would you think it disqualifies me from lengthening surgery?
My nose was damaged in a sparring match offsetting it to the right and deviating my septum to the point where I was unable to breathe so I thought why not get a rhinoplasty at the same time as it's not anymore inconvenient.

Did you explained to her eventual complications? Risks of never walking again?
Shrink isn't supposed to give you "acceptance", she is supposed to give you some kind of perspective.

LL always is the last resort, don't forget that.

She previously worked as a surgeon's first assistant and has come across the surgery for non cosmetic purposes.

I have found no cases of paralysis as a result of leg lengthening and the following is an extract from Dr. Guichet's website:
"While it is important to be aware of what could go wrong. It is important to note that no instances of deep infection (osteitis, osteomyelitis), paralysis or lasting stiffness have occurred as a result of Dr. Guichet’s femoral lengthening practice to date."

[TIBIKE200]

You said everything started after the end of a relationship.

 I can relate to the feeling of unworthingness or whatever since I like every other single man or women had a rough breakup at some point in our past... A harsh breakup can really mess up your self worth and self image.... Be sure that you are not projecting your sorrow for the lost relationship into invented insecurities... One thing is to want to become taller... Another is to suffer because you arent already tall

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

I have found no cases of paralysis as a result of leg lengthening and the following is an extract from Dr. Guichet's website:
"While it is important to be aware of what could go wrong. It is important to note that no instances of deep infection (osteitis, osteomyelitis), paralysis or lasting stiffness have occurred as a result of Dr. Guichet’s femoral lengthening practice to date."

And Betz says his patients can get 22cm of lengthening. Eh.

haha that's quite an assumption to jump to why would you think it disqualifies me from lengthening surgery?
My nose was damaged in a sparring match offsetting it to the right and deviating my septum to the point where I was unable to breathe so I thought why not get a rhinoplasty at the same time as it's not anymore inconvenient.

Cool. It's more about going into addiction from plastic surgeries especially that LL isn't an easy walk in the park.
You were happy with your nose job, why you can't be happy now?

Imho you sound like someone who thinks LL will solve his self-esteem issues which is obviously false(it can help, but it won't do it just by itself). Remember that Guichet doesn't accept people who think LL will solve their life problems.

[jfk]

Why dont you get a loan of 25 000 € from the bank, do LL and then pay it off slowly.
This way you will be millionaire not when you are 40 but maybe 45 because you have to pay off the loan. But then you are tall and rich!

My main point: You dont have to choose between height and money. That is just a limiting belief in your head.

[Peaceout]

man 15 years is just way too long.You cant know what time will bring till then.Maybe you will be billionare after you do LL and start working in like 5-10 years :)You should get your surgery if you really want imo.

[Random Hero]

You said everything started after the end of a relationship.

 I can relate to the feeling of unworthingness or whatever since I like every other single man or women had a rough breakup at some point in our past... A harsh breakup can really mess up your self worth and self image.... Be sure that you are not projecting your sorrow for the lost relationship into invented insecurities... One thing is to want to become taller... Another is to suffer because you arent already tall

I knew I was short since I was 18 but I wasn't really fussed since I wasn't mocked for it and had a great partner but as more and more people started to comment and so did my partner and her parents that's when it started and when we broke up and I entered the dating world and got the shock of my life when I experienced women's obsession over height and thing's haven't got better since so now it's time to do something drastic about it to solve the issue once and for all and I can put all this behind me.

I'm definitely suffering :/

[onemorefoot]

And you are 5 8"

[Peaceout]

I knew I was short since I was 18 but I wasn't really fussed since I wasn't mocked for it and had a great partner but as more and more people started to comment and so did my partner and her parents that's when it started and when we broke up and I entered the dating world and got the shock of my life when I experienced women's obsession over height and thing's haven't got better since so now it's time to do something drastic about it to solve the issue once and for all and I can put all this behind me.

I'm definitely suffering :/

mocked? as more and more people started to comment? Dude wtf?!You are not a midget for crying out loud..
I dont understand,do you live in netherlands or some tall af country?

[The Kaiser]

I knew I was short since I was 18 but I wasn't really fussed since I wasn't mocked for it and had a great partner but as more and more people started to comment and so did my partner and her parents that's when it started and when we broke up and I entered the dating world and got the shock of my life when I experienced women's obsession over height and thing's haven't got better since so now it's time to do something drastic about it to solve the issue once and for all and I can put all this behind me.

I'm definitely suffering :/

Its your mental issue, did they called you short? i guess not.
why you don't say anything about tall guy get rejected, are they short too?

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

mocked? as more and more people started to comment? Dude wtf?!You are not a midget for crying out loud..
I dont understand,do you live in netherlands or some tall af country?

He has England in his signature.

I'm not mocked for my 5'5 and i'm living in an average taller country.

[Random Hero]

Its a tough question

Height neurosis or short stature is beyond horrible it truly is and i sympathise i can relate to your story and have a lot of sympathy. I suffered the exact same things, women would say 'yeah your handsome, good looking etc but youre too short' etc etc etc. its as frustrating as hell! You feel bitter and angry and it eventually consumes your life.

Even just reading this my jaw clenches and my muscles tense with anger and frustration; you've obviously experienced the same prejudice as I have.
Do I want to be bitter about it all my life? absolutely not if their is a 'cure'...even if it is ~£55,000! haha

If you want the surgery done id either do it now or not at all. You must realise though that this surgery comes at costs not just money wise it would be great if that was all it was but it isnt. At 5-8 id advise you to do 5cms on tibias or something similar on femurs, there are pros and cons to both that you must be aware of. Doing tibias you will eventually lose dorsiflexion at a certain point, you may very well be able to regain some but not much or anynat all if you overlengthen. Dorsiflexion is critical for a number of movements for the body and without it walking will become very awkward. Running properly will be a thing of the past. A number of gym movements will become very difficult if not impossible to do safely. If you are into athletic things think very hard about this surgery. If you are an individual who is like the rest of the population who gets up works, goes hime watches soaps, then goes to bed and does this year after year then fine go get it as the difference to your life is minimal.

I'm defiantly doing femur as that is what Dr. Guichet performs; going to research 'Dorsiflexion' non the less as it's a term I havn't come across yet.
I used to row but a rowing club wasn't the wisest thing to join with height neurosis for obvious reasons so I just weight train at the gym four days a week now...just another example how it affects my daily life

The problem with these boards is any questions regardingthe issues caused by this surgery are generally not answered or ignored. There are too many folk on here that obsess over nonsense like proportions when there is far bigger things to worry about, like making sure you dont overlengthen and screw yourself up. You wont guve a fk about your arms being 1" too short for your body if you cant walk properly again.

I agree that the forum is bias towards the surgery but that is to be expected as very few people will expose themselves if they have failed at something (in this case suffered complications) even under an alias on a forum however there are rare exceptions like Unicorn who have gone into great detail about what appears to be a very arduous experience...it does make me wonder how many people have experienced the same issues faced by Unicorn though. 

If you had cash like a million there would be plenty of women who would be keen on you, theres little difference between a woman who goes for a guy whos rich or one who goes for one who is tall simply because they are either rich or tall. Both will fail as money can only buy so much happiness but someone who is tall will eventually be surplus to requirements as well as the height thing will grow old similar to the material posessions they bought with your money either way both types of women are not the types you want.

I dont get women whongo for for guys simply because they are tall, its the equivalent of guys going with women because they have big tits but literally nothing else going for them

Hope to god I don't fall for one of these women! haha I sort of get that women directly relate height with strength and want to feel protected it's just a natural instinct so I don't necessarily blame them for it...it's just sh*t for guys below average height!

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

haha I sort of get that women directly relate height with strength and want to feel protected it's just a natural instinct so I don't necessarily blame them for it...it's just sh*t for guys below average height!

It's barely natural instinct. Height is mostly glorified by media and hollywood.

Even just reading this my jaw clenches and my muscles tense with anger and frustration; you've obviously experienced the same prejudice as I have.
Do I want to be bitter about it all my life? absolutely not if their is a 'cure'...even if it is ~£55,000! haha

That type of girls won't date you anymore but it's good, you wouldn't really want to date that type of person.

[Random Hero]

80 mm is 3.25" inches. you need more time then. 7 cm you can gain it in two months with Guichet, then you can go back immediately but its preferable to stay an extra week there so lets say 65 days for 7 cm. good luck

80mm/25.4mm=3.15" trust me I'm an engineer
Didn't think to bother mentioning the additional 0.15" but it appears people on here are budding metrologist's and like to be exact haha 

65 days will do me perfectly!  and ty!

[The Kaiser]

80mm/25.4mm=3.15" trust me I'm an engineer
Didn't think to bother mentioning the additional 0.15" but it appears people on here are budding metrologist's and like to be exact haha 

65 days will do me perfectly!  and ty!

but then you will be in crutches for one or two months, but its ok you can go and have work. but 65 days i meant with Guichet, because he usually cut 1 cm in the first day, and lets assume no complication occured

[TIBIKE200]

It is either only in the UK and US that is like that, but I have never heard of people above 5'6 being called "too short to date"... Usually when women tell you what they dont like about you directly, it's because that's not the real thing they don't like... A good women will never tell a short dude that he is short nor that he is ugly if he is really ugly (they will talk behind the back)...
  Like really... 5'8 is not so short to be a major problem in the dating world...