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[Iamready]

There are definitely multiple factors that influence how painful the process will be. In my own experience, during my 8 months of downtime at the Paley institute, age seemed to be the main factor, however, I wouldn't rule out body type as well.  I was 32 and had a moderately muscular body type with lots of athletic trauma and I had the hardest time of anyone there lengthening at the same time as me. Getting this done at a young age is a blessing, not only because you're likely to have an easier time, but because- personally speaking- life begins at 18  and I'd give every penny I have to relive those years at my new height.

[Penguinn]

Could also be body type. Based on my own experience and anecdotal evidence from other patients, it seems that patients with thicker muscles feel significantly more pain during the lengthening period. Are you particularly thin, Penguinn? Could just be a genetic thing too and your soft tissues are just naturally more lax/stretchy than a lot of other people's.

Not really. At 5'2 I weighed 60kg(132lbs), measured right before I went into surgery. I had an average body type and I'm thinner now by 2-3 kgs I'd guess. My quads were muscular and they've lost about an inch of width and all their muscle.

There are definitely multiple factors that influence how painful the process will be. In my own experience, during my 8 months of downtime at the Paley institute, age seemed to be the main factor, however, I wouldn't rule out body type as well.  I was 32 and had a moderately muscular body type with lots of athletic trauma and I had the hardest time of anyone there lengthening at the same time as me. Getting this done at a young age is a blessing, not only because you're likely to have an easier time, but because- personally speaking- life begins at 18  and I'd give every penny I have to relive those years at my new height.

I agree, 18 is ideal except for the financing issue. It's never too late though, 5'5 - 5'9 is incredible.

[Iamready]

I got my final height measured in September when I returned to the Paley Institute: 176.5 cm - 5 9.5 ft.  Exactly the 11.5 cm gain my x-rays showed when I finished.  So you'll be glad to know, with the precise, you don't lose any of the height that you gain once you consolidate. 

Anyway keep it up. 

[caioOo8900]

How are you Penguinn? All right? How many mm already got? Good luck

[Penguinn]

How are you Penguinn? All right? How many mm already got? Good luck

4.5cms today.

The only side effect of lengthening so far is that I can see my femur is now longer, but it still looks proportionate. I think the next 3cms is what will take it from "proportionately long" to "very long", but not too bad and I can live with it. The 3" gained total far, far outweigh slight disproportion for me.

Except for 3 or 4 days, I've slept for 8 hours every night. The strip of painkillers I got a month ago has only 3 pills missing so I'm doing good. The process has been far easier than I thought it would be. This time next month I'll be done lengthening, so we'll see how the next 30 days go. It doesn't look like I'll get severe muscle tightness or excruciating pains unless things go from 0-100 somehow.

So far in my opinion, LL is totally worth it. If I had the proportions and time, honestly, I would have done a second LL for 2" in my tibias with Dr. Parihar.

[applesandoranges]

Can you share pics or video? thanks

[Auron]

When you say that your femur will look "proportionately long" are you comparing it to the tibia or to the upper body? I've no idea what is your sitting height and wingspan but maybe a 2nd LL in your tibias wouldn't be a bad idea proportion wise.

[Penguinn]

Can you share pics or video? thanks

Nope. I might share one many months after recovery.
I have X-Ray pictures on the previous pages if you like.

When you say that your femur will look "proportionately long" are you comparing it to the tibia or to the upper body? I've no idea what is your sitting height and wingspan but maybe a 2nd LL in your tibias wouldn't be a bad idea proportion wise.

To the tibia. My tibia:femur ratio post lengthening will be 0.673.

A second LL would be a bad idea. My sitting height is around 5'4(I sat next to my 5'4.5 dad to see), my wingspan is only 5'4 because of my shoulders(arms aren't long), and my legs weren't particularly short. I can pull off 5'5 but I'm afraid that's the limit.

[applesandoranges]

Honestly I can't take this diary seriously. It doesn't come off as genuine.

[Penguinn]

Honestly I can't take this diary seriously. It doesn't come off as genuine.

I agree, I obviously painted my X-Rays on MS paint.

[apoxyomenos]

Hi Penguinn,
Congratulations for your actual achievement and thanks a lot for sharing your experience in the forum.
You wrote that you'll have a final crural index of 0,673 after 8cm added in the femurs. Have the measures of tibia and femur been made considering TBL (tibia maximum length) and FBL (femur Bicondylar length)?
Because if you had a very common original crural index of 0,825 for  example; knowing that x/y=0,825 and that x/(y+8)=0,673...you get original tibia =29,2cm and original femur 35,4cm....
These values seem to be small for a person whose starting height is about 158cm, considering that you stated that your legs weren't particularly short before LL...
THanks in advance for your answer, and once again congratulations for the actual achievement.
Cheers.

[Penguinn]

Hi Penguinn,
Congratulations for your actual achievement and thanks a lot for sharing your experience in the forum.
You wrote that you'll have a final crural index of 0,673 after 8cm added in the femurs. Have the measures of tibia and femur been made considering TBL (tibia maximum length) and FBL (femur Bicondylar length)?
Because if you had a very common original crural index of 0,825 for  example; knowing that x/y=0,825 and that x/(y+8)=0,673...you get original tibia =29,2cm and original femur 35,4cm....
These values seem to be small for a person whose starting height is about 158cm, considering that you stated that your legs weren't particularly short before LL...
THanks in advance for your answer, and once again congratulations for the actual achievement.
Cheers.

My head's spinning..



Just looked again. My tibia was 33.6 and femur was 42.6. 33.6/42.6 = 7.887 which is about a 0.79 ratio that I had before.
I assumed 7.4cms of lengthening to round off 42.6 to 50. New ratio: 33.6/50 = 0.672

That's why I say I wasn't short legged, apparently my tibia was longer than Kilo's starting tibia and much longer than Morisette's(his was unusually short though). My femur was Kilo's femur length. However I've always felt normal if not short legged compared to 5'6 friends whose legs seem to be huge. Maybe it's a race thing?
(Edit: When I say "normal legged compared to 5'6 friends" I don't mean our legs are equal, I mean compared to their longer legs I felt like mine were right for my height if not short.)

Yeah, they don't matter so much to someone who's 5'2. Also apparently I have a 0.5cm discrepancy in my tibias and 0.2 in the femurs, making my left leg 0.7cms taller than my right, yet I can't even see it or feel it after knowing.

[apoxyomenos]

Thanks Penguinn for the fastness of your reply.
79 as original crural index means you were proportionally with short tibia, since as I wrote in the Height & Proportions section, the crural index varies from about 78 up to about 88. Just searching in the web you get these values, also with charts.
Nevertheless, as indicated in my last consideration in the same section, whatever your original crural index, you can lengthen the segment you consider more appropriate. Just listen to your body when it will tell you your individual safe limit.
Thanks again for sharing your experience rich of important details and useful infos.
Cheers.

[Penguinn]

Thanks Penguinn for the fastness of your reply.
79 as original crural index means you were proportionally with short tibia, since as I wrote in the Height & Proportions section, the crural index varies from about 78 up to about 88. Just searching in the web you get these values, also with charts.

Yeah, but as long as it's in the normal range, in my opinion, it doesn't matter too much. It's just not ideal. In the mockups I had made my lengthened femur looked ok while the lengthened tibia, even 6cms, looked ridiculous.

[Alu]

Penguin, if I could question you further on the whole proportion thing. Say where you're at now, practically 2 inches, if both Tibia and Femurs were equally lengthen to 5 CM, would you feel that would be too much for your legs to torso ratio? How about 8 CM equally increased? Would that then be too much for your own "proportional limit" legs to torso?

[onemorefoot]

Same question as Alu.

[Alu]

Penguin, if I could question you further on the whole proportion thing. *Say where you're at now, practically 2 inches, if both Tibia and Femurs were equally lengthen to 5 CM, would you feel that would be too much for your legs to torso ratio? **How about 8 CM equally increased? Would that then be too much for your own "proportional limit" legs to torso?

Also just clarifying cause I feel like I worded it awkwardly:

*Say Tibia and Femurs were both increased to 1.5 cm for an equal of 5 CM.
**Say Tibia and Femurs were both increased to 4 cm for an equal of 8 CM.

This question is simply about Torso to Legs. Although it would be nice to hear your input later on what you think 10 CM would feel like.

[Penguinn]

Edit: Just read "where you're now".

Yes, 4" total lengthening would be too much. With my arms and sitting height of around 5'3.5-5'4, 5'5 is the limit for me. If I was put next to a 5'6 person after 4" of lengthening, you'd be able to tell something was off.

Edit: By sitting height of 5'3.5-5'4 I mean an inch or half an inch shorter than my dad who's 5'4.5 or so with normal proportions. I haven't measured it, honestly, I didn't care.

[onemorefoot]

So 4 inches is too much, what would be the most you recommend considering that the person is normal, not short torso or legs?

[Penguinn]

So 4 inches is too much, what would be the most you recommend considering that the person is normal, not short torso or legs?

Can't say. That would depend on their starting height, arm length etc. and I'd have to see their mock ups.

[midnightninja]

Hi Penguinn,
Congratulations for your actual achievement and thanks a lot for sharing your experience in the forum.
You wrote that you'll have a final crural index of 0,673 after 8cm added in the femurs. Have the measures of tibia and femur been made considering TBL (tibia maximum length) and FBL (femur Bicondylar length)?
Because if you had a very common original crural index of 0,825 for  example; knowing that x/y=0,825 and that x/(y+8)=0,673...you get original tibia =29,2cm and original femur 35,4cm....
These values seem to be small for a person whose starting height is about 158cm, considering that you stated that your legs weren't particularly short before LL...
THanks in advance for your answer, and once again congratulations for the actual achievement.
Cheers.

Mate, you think way way way too much about proportions. You bring in all these scientific equations, everyone will be disproportionate. The goal is too not look terrible and keep functionality.

[Penguinn]

Update: 13th November 2016

I'd advice LLers to not continuously use a hot water bag/heating pad. I've overused the hell out of one for my calf muscles for a month and a half and it caused my calf muscles to get this red, cell-like structure look. It kinda looks like this: http://www.pediatricsconsultantlive.com/sites/default/files/resize/peds/1655766-493x352.png

After Googling about it, I think it's Erythema Ab Igne(mild), a skin condition caused when blood cells dilate after overexposure to heat and it goes away after the heating source is removed, so no more hot water bags to relax my calves for a while. I can't even feel it; there's no burning, itching or pain so it doesn't seem serious. Going to Mangal Anand tomorrow for a checkup and will get it evaluated along with other things.

[caioOo8900]

Update: 13th November 2016

I'd advice LLers to not continuously use a hot water bag/heating pad. I've overused the hell out of one for my calf muscles for a month and a half and it caused my calf muscles to get this red, cell-like structure look. It kinda looks like this: http://www.pediatricsconsultantlive.com/sites/default/files/resize/peds/1655766-493x352.png

After Googling about it, I think it's Erythema Ab Igne(mild), a skin condition caused when blood cells dilate after overexposure to heat and it goes away after the heating source is removed, so no more hot water bags to relax my calves for a while. I can't even feel it; there's no burning, itching or pain so it doesn't seem serious. Going to Mangal Anand tomorrow for a checkup and will get it evaluated along with other things.

I think that's it , How many mm already got? Good luck

[Iamready]

Update: 13th November 2016

I'd advice LLers to not continuously use a hot water bag/heating pad. I've overused the hell out of one for my calf muscles for a month and a half and it caused my calf muscles to get this red, cell-like structure look. It kinda looks like this: http://www.pediatricsconsultantlive.com/sites/default/files/resize/peds/1655766-493x352.png

After Googling about it, I think it's Erythema Ab Igne(mild), a skin condition caused when blood cells dilate after overexposure to heat and it goes away after the heating source is removed, so no more hot water bags to relax my calves for a while. I can't even feel it; there's no burning, itching or pain so it doesn't seem serious. Going to Mangal Anand tomorrow for a checkup and will get it evaluated along with other things.

I used to sleep with hot packs on high and the skin on my thigh looked like that but it we t away a month or two after stopping.

[Whimsical]

Which packs are better in lengthening : hot or cold?

[Iamready]

cold is def better but it's so uncomfortable and difficult to manage.  I would say stay away from heat until all your swelling is gone.  Icing helps a lot during this stage.  There are heat pads that are electric and work at the press of a button and really helped me get sleep when the pain was too much to handle. 

[Penguinn]

Which packs are better in lengthening : hot or cold?

I'm not allowed to use hot water bags/heating pads on my thighs more than a minimal amount because the blood flow shouldn't increase too much there. Cold packs, I've found, don't work. They're for injuries and not for muscle pain. My calves used to ache very often in October and a hot water bag always solved the problem. Now I'll just put up with it or take a pain pill if it gets annoying. Don't abuse the heating pad.

[Penguinn]

Update: 15th November 2016 - 56 days post op- 2" gained

Well, almost 2 inches. I'm at 4.966cms as of writing this; the X-Rays of yesterday showed 4.7cms instead of 4.866 but 1mm is the room for error while measuring. Getting X-Rays isn't fun at all btw. It's an entire physio session on your legs and takes forever. I go every 2 weeks or so and the exact point that's in the middle of the Precice machine while lengthening(where the magnet is) shifts by a few mms and has to be relocated and re-marked.


X-Rays
Right: http://imgur.com/a/5x3ix
Left: http://imgur.com/a/G87k9


I got my first complication; duck ass is starting to form on the right because I haven't exercised the glutes enough. The left leg is completely fine somehow so when I stand, my right knee is half an inch ahead of the left because the muscles are a bit tight. I've been given a bunch of new exercises including standing for 10 minutes straight, pulling back the right knee the whole time. It should get fixed soon since I'm nipping it in the bud and doing lots of physio, but we'll see. The next month will be tougher.

Was told the red grill-like marks on my calves from overusing the hot water bag aren't a big deal and will go on their own.

The pain when I'm in a relaxed position is still minimal. Funnily, my brain hasn't adjusted to me being 2" taller. I'll have a fun time getting adjusted to being taller once LL is done.

[TIBIKE200]

Update: 15th November 2016 - 56 days post op- 2" gained

Well, almost 2 inches. I'm at 4.966cms as of writing this; the X-Rays of yesterday showed 4.7cms instead of 4.866 but 1mm is the room for error while measuring. Getting X-Rays isn't fun at all btw. It's an entire physio session on your legs and takes forever. I go every 2 weeks or so and the exact point that's in the middle of the Precice machine while lengthening(where the magnet is) shifts by a few mms and has to be relocated and re-marked.


X-Rays
Right: http://imgur.com/a/5x3ix
Left: http://imgur.com/a/G87k9


I got my first complication; duck ass is starting to form on the right because I haven't exercised the glutes enough. The left leg is completely fine somehow so when I stand, my right knee is half an inch ahead of the left because the muscles are a bit tight. I've been given a bunch of new exercises including standing for 10 minutes straight, pulling back the right knee the whole time. It should get fixed soon since I'm nipping it in the bud and doing lots of physio, but we'll see. The next month will be tougher.

Was told the red grill-like marks on my calves from overusing the hot water bag aren't a big deal and will go on their own.

The pain when I'm in a relaxed position is still minimal. Funnily, my brain hasn't adjusted to me being 2" taller. I'll have a fun time getting adjusted to being taller once LL is done.

Duck ass is usually caused by the ileo-psoas.. Do some thomas stretches with your physio

[Penguinn]

Duck ass is usually caused by the ileo-psoas.. Do some thomas stretches with your physio

I don't think it's that muscle. It's the top quad muscle that comes from the hip and the hamstring that needs to be more flexible. It bends my knee causing my butt to go a little back as a result. I'll ask about this one.

Thanks, and I'd read some negative things about Dr. Shah on this forum, and later even more stuff through PMs. However I've promised the person who told me that I'd keep it to myself. Also after the first time I spoke to Parihar and through reading Kilo's diary I didn't think I needed to look further.

I'd also like to correct this- the person who'd told me some negative incidents about Dr. Shah turned out to be a fake, so I take it back and sorry. The main reason I chose Dr. Parihar is because after meeting with him I didn't need to look further, not because there's anything wrong with Dr. Shah. To those considering, do your own research.

[wasabix]

Doing Precice 2 nails in my femurs with Dr. Mangal Parihar. My surgery's on 20th September, about 12 days to go. I will be the Dr's first Precice 2 patient(slightly unnerving); however he says it won't matter. The total cost for those wondering is around $42,000 or 28 Lakhs(nails + surgery, not counting hotel stay or travel).

When you say 24 lakhs is that Indian rupees??
Also why did you choose Precice over the LON and Ilizarov apparatus?
Good luck for your lengthening and I hope all goes well (: