Topic: Saving up money for LL surgery (Read 14745 times)

Sconosciuto · « **on:** July 21, 2016, 04:23:38 PM »

Hello world,
Surprinsingly there's no info. about this topic in the forum. That's why I'm starting this discussion.
I'm about to graduate University, (I'm taking IT Degree) in a year and there is no way a young graduate can make the kind of money for this surgery especially when you are from a country where the currency is terribly weak.
My plan is to get additional worthy qualifications such as Oracle certification, Microsoft Certification & CCNA Certification then I move to a country where the economy is strong so I can work and earn a strong currency. Additionally, I will need to live frugally and look to invest in stocks, bonds or mutual funds with satisfactory returns.
I'm expecting to get more than enough for my surgery after 2 years of working hard, investing and saving money. If I earn a strong currency I could simply have the surgery in a country where the currency is weaker.
Do you have any suggestions for me? This is the only viable solution I thought for me otherwise this surgery is near impossible for me to afford.

CCMidwest · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2016, 04:34:49 PM »

Oh man, my favorite topic...investing.

If LL is that important, do NOT put *ANY* LL money into a stock, bond, mutual fund (stocks again), property, peer to peer lending, or any other investment vehicle that is not liquid.

Razorfin · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2016, 11:17:06 PM »

Read 'The Intelligent Investor' by Benjamin Graham .. you'll soon learn that there is no such thing as a guaranteed return on a 2 year investment .. only 2 years worth of uncertain speculation.

You're best bet is to become a programmer and work freelance, or a salesman within a technical field.

justdoit · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2016, 12:07:51 AM »

drive uber hahaha

Sconosciuto · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2016, 06:04:31 AM »

Quote from: CCMidwest on July 21, 2016, 04:34:49 PM

Oh man, my favorite topic...investing.

If LL is that important, do NOT put *ANY* LL money into a stock, bond, mutual fund (stocks again), property, peer to peer lending, or any other investment vehicle that is not liquid.

That's a good point. I'll consult a Financial Adviser to give me more insights about this.

Quote from: Razorfin on July 21, 2016, 11:17:06 PM

Read 'The Intelligent Investor' by Benjamin Graham .. you'll soon learn that there is no such thing as a guaranteed return on a 2 year investment .. only 2 years worth of uncertain speculation.

You're best bet is to become a programmer and work freelance, or a salesman within a technical field.

I've just looked up the book, will be reading it. Programming is something that doesn't appeal to me. Why do you think Programming and sales in technical field are my best bet? And where?[/color]

CCMidwest · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2016, 12:50:52 PM »

Quote from: Sconosciuto on July 22, 2016, 06:04:31 AM

That's a good point. I'll consult a Financial Adviser to give me more insights about this.

Especially when you first start investing, never invest money that you can't lose. I buy and sell stocks often, and my main business involves trading commodity futures. Good returns are few and far between, and it is VERY easy to lose large amounts of money right now.

As an example, I had a commodity trade go south on me last month. I lost $70,000 in the course of an afternoon...

It's risky out there right now.

Most financial advisers get paid on commission, so make sure to find one that is not. Otherwise you'll end up in a mutual fund with a 5% front end load, or worse.

You're on the right track thinking about earning a higher valued currency. Even with fluctuations in the US dollar for instance, it is still worth more than the vast majority of other currencies. I expect that to continue, especially with the EU having trouble.

"Saving" money and "investing" money are not the same thing. Save money that is important, invest the leftovers to build a nice future.

Sconosciuto · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2016, 05:18:08 PM »

Quote

Especially when you first start investing, never invest money that you can't lose.

Truly speaking I can't lose any hard-earned money. I intend to take the risk in order to "grow" money.
I only need just about enough to cover the surgery+ expenses, specifically + - U$ 25000 or € 22800 would do wonders.

To make this money two years time seems like a far-fetched thinking especially with the terrible economy worldwide.
I will need a job because of steady income, I do work as a freelance designer - the problem is that very few companies will take seriously a young entrepeneur and you can go for months without a single client and I have bills to pay.
This kind of "work" is only suitable as a secondary income source.
The same applies to starting own business: One needs lots of start-up capital and it takes +- 5 years to break even IF the business survives. Companies pay peanuts to young graduates with no job experience.

I ran out of options, I cannot think of how I can make that much money within 2 years. I'll continue researching there's got to be a way out.

CCMidwest · « **Reply #7 on:** July 22, 2016, 05:53:38 PM »

Hate to be pessimistic, but...

There is no "risk" that you'll face by investing in the stock market right now, you are all but guaranteed to lose money.

Here's the deal. I am getting about a 2% rate of return on my stocks right now. That is below inflation rates. I literally make better money holding cash at my local credit union that gives me 2.5% on checking accounts.

At a 2% return:

$1000 will earn $20
$5000 will earn $100
$10000 will earn $200

Etc...

Even investing the full amount of your LL surgery only nets you $500 the first year.

Let's say you get the full market average for NYSE: 9.5% (good luck with that)

A $10000 investment still only nets you $950 the first year.

Stocks only work in 2 scenarios:

1. Long term buy and hold for 30+ years

2. Large sums of money invested at once (accredited investor situations like mine)

CCMidwest · « **Reply #8 on:** July 22, 2016, 06:06:31 PM »

About the only way to make money with stocks right now is to buy companies that pay large dividends. There are many companies that pay dividends in the 5%-10% range.

However, you have to sell the security at some point too. So you are gambling that the underlying cost basis will be below the retail price when you sell. That's a huge bet.

You are also gambling that the company you invest in will continue to pay dividends. They are usually the first thing that is cut when times get tight.

Beyond that, you pay taxes on the return above cost base including dividends.

Hope this all helps.

CCMidwest · « **Reply #9 on:** July 22, 2016, 06:21:57 PM »

Real world advice here:

Work multiple jobs. If you want LL bad enough, you can work a ton of hours.

A $10 an hour second job in the USA, at 20 hours a week, will get you about $10,000 per year. You've got the surgery money in 2.5 years at that rate.

Have a main job to pay your bills. Deliver newspapers in the morning for another $400 per month.

Work 80+ hours a week, not kidding.

Sleep? Sleep when you're dead.

KiloKAHN · « **Reply #10 on:** July 22, 2016, 06:29:36 PM »

I've got a full time job and am currently studying to get ACE certified so I can find another job as a personal trainer for the extra income. I also only rent rooms from other people instead of getting my own place so I can save up faster, and instead of paying for a car I just take public transportation. You can find plenty of ways to save up extra money.

ub40 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 22, 2016, 07:01:04 PM »

I got lucky and got a six figure job, then I gave it up to get LL, once I'm done I doubt I'll get something as good. Ah well.. At least I'll be 5'9 😛..

Sconosciuto · « **Reply #12 on:** July 22, 2016, 07:14:17 PM »

Quote

Good returns are few and far between, and it is VERY easy to lose large amounts of money right now.

As an example, I had a commodity trade go south on me last month. I lost $70,000 in the course of an afternoon...

My goodness, you've lost a lot of money. Why did you lose that large sum of money? Since this is your area if expertise, could you not have identified the "bad" stocks & bonds?
Do you only invest in US market or internationally? What about "tax heaven" and offshore companies?

What's your opinion on Unit Trust ?

CCMidwest · « **Reply #13 on:** July 22, 2016, 08:08:51 PM »

Quote from: KiloKAHN on July 22, 2016, 06:29:36 PM

I've got a full time job and am currently studying to get ACE certified so I can find another job as a personal trainer for the extra income. I also only rent rooms from other people instead of getting my own place so I can save up faster, and instead of paying for a car I just take public transportation. You can find plenty of ways to save up extra money.

Living like this is EXACTLY how I got rich. Sure as hell wasn't my education, I don't even have a degree lol.

Quote from: ub40 on July 22, 2016, 07:01:04 PM

I got lucky and got a six figure job, then I gave it up to get LL, once I'm done I doubt I'll get something as good. Ah well.. At least I'll be 5'9 😛..

Expensive 2" ub40! Peace of mind is priceless in my opinion though...

Quote from: Sconosciuto on July 22, 2016, 07:14:17 PM

My goodness, you've lost a lot of money. Why did you lose that large sum of money? Since this is your area if expertise, could you not have identified the "bad" stocks & bonds?
Do you only invest in US market or internationally? What about "tax heaven" and offshore companies?

What's your opinion on Unit Trust ?

Haha, that's one of the smaller amounts I've lost very quickly. Stocks and bonds are risky, but commodity trading is a whole other level of risk. Plus, if you can't sell, you have to take delivery of the commodity (which I do). Sometimes sh*t just goes wrong man, make a bad call, market shifts in an unpredictable way, a country leaves the EU, some other country has an attempted coup, whatever...it happens.

I can't get into more detail than that without revealing what I do.

Stocks and bonds, I only invest in US markets, with the exception of some mutual funds that own foreign holdings. I have a small silent stake in a company that builds and owns condos in Belize, but that is my only foreign investment otherwise. (I'm one of 25 owners) Never been to Belize or seen the property I own, but they tell me it's nice, lol.

I've never invested in a Unit Trust or really know much about them, other than they are essentially a mutual fund built around a trust and have greater autonomy for what they invest in.

Tax Haven's? Yeah, right. As an American, even the Swiss are required now to give my government any banking information that they possess about my deposits there. If they don't, the US federal government has the ability to close all of their US banking locations and seize their US assets. It's technically illegal, but this "free" country doesn't care about the law. Tax haven's are the stuff of the "elite" of the world, soooo...not me.

CCMidwest · « **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2016, 08:23:28 PM »

Quote from: KiloKAHN on July 22, 2016, 06:29:36 PM

I've got a full time job and am currently studying to get ACE certified so I can find another job as a personal trainer for the extra income. I also only rent rooms from other people instead of getting my own place so I can save up faster, and instead of paying for a car I just take public transportation. You can find plenty of ways to save up extra money.

Quote from: CCMidwest on July 22, 2016, 06:21:57 PM

Real world advice here:

Work multiple jobs. If you want LL bad enough, you can work a ton of hours.

A $10 an hour second job in the USA, at 20 hours a week, will get you about $10,000 per year. You've got the surgery money in 2.5 years at that rate.

Have a main job to pay your bills. Deliver newspapers in the morning for another $400 per month.

Work 80+ hours a week, not kidding.

Sleep? Sleep when you're dead.

Lord knows I enjoy talking about money and investing (almost as much as I enjoy talking about women), but are you taking any of the above advice to heart?

From what I gather about your current financial situation, this is by far the best advice you are going to get...

Edit: Happy to help though man, don't get me wrong.

LifeReloaded · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2016, 02:06:15 AM »

start up a business

identify needs and problems in your field (IT) and make a plan of how you're going to attack the problem and formulate a product. get creative.

Sconosciuto · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2016, 07:01:21 AM »

Quote from: LifeReloaded on July 23, 2016, 02:06:15 AM

start up a business

identify needs and problems in your field (IT) and make a plan of how you're going to attack the problem and formulate a product. get creative.

Quote from: Sconosciuto on July 22, 2016, 05:18:08 PM

The same applies to starting own business: One needs lots of start-up capital and it takes +- 5 years to break even IF the business survives.

Sconosciuto · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2016, 07:35:39 AM »

Quote from: CCMidwest

Lord knows I enjoy talking about money and investing (almost as much as I enjoy talking about women), but are you taking any of the above advice to heart?

From what I gather about your current financial situation, this is by far the best advice you are going to get...

Edit: Happy to help though man, don't get me wrong.

Based on inputs on this thread, I finally came to a decision.
Finish my IT degree + complete other qualifications I mentioned. Then move to a country that is "stable" and has a strong currency, possible options are :

UK- £ 1 = US$1.42
US - California (the country is currently very unstable)
E.U. - € 1 = US$1.09
Kuwait - 1 KWD = US$3.28
Canada - CAD 1 = US$ 0.76

Those are currently some of the strongest currencies worldwide. Now another huge obstacle is those countries' tough immigration laws and labor laws. I will sign up on an expat forum in order to discuss it with other expats in those countries. I'll learn from them what I am supposed to do. I will also look to connect with successful expats and locals. Good contacts are crucial.

TnaTna · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2016, 09:38:50 AM »

If you want very high salary the quickest possible, the best way is actually to be admitted and to find a job in very rich European countries such as Norway and Switzerland. It doesn't have Euro but their currency is the strongest abroad and their salaries the highest in the world. For example, in Switzerland the AVERAGE wage is around 4200 euros without taxes, it's about two times U.K.'s or France's. Don't go to U.K., moreover the life there is creepingly expensive.

YourSpaceBoyfriend · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:14:17 AM »

Living in norway is expensive as hell.

Sconosciuto · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:41:39 AM »

Quote from: Tnak10 on July 23, 2016, 09:38:50 AM

If you want very high salary the quickest possible, the best way is actually to be admitted and to find a job in very rich European countries such as Norway and Switzerland. It doesn't have Euro but their currency is the strongest abroad and their salaries the highest in the world. For example, in Switzerland the AVERAGE wage is around 4200 euros without taxes, it's about two times U.K.'s or France's. Don't go to U.K., moreover the life there is creepingly expensive.

1- The only possible way I of me working there is if an international company like Google or Microsoft hired me. There's no way a local company would hire a foreigner especially from Africa.
2-I read that Norway has a very high cost of living, you earn a lot but you also spend a lot.

Sconosciuto · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:50:52 AM »

Quote from: CCMidwest

Haha, that's one of the smaller amounts I've lost very quickly.

What the hell? Is your networth 7 figures? Why is someone of this caliber frequenting internet forums?

YourSpaceBoyfriend · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:55:54 AM »

1k euro monthly for a small apartment is a standard, hell even big mac with fries and cola there costs like 20 euro as i remember.

paddy10tellys · « **Reply #23 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:56:39 AM »

Quote from: Sconosciuto on July 23, 2016, 10:50:52 AM

What the hell? Is your networth 7 figures? Why is someone of this caliber frequenting internet forums?

Yeah, CCMidwest, how come you are in here hanging out with us loosers?

..jokes
I think he's doing research & he may actually like some of us...

CCMidwest · « **Reply #24 on:** July 23, 2016, 12:23:39 PM »

Quote from: Sconosciuto on July 23, 2016, 07:35:39 AM

US - California (the country is currently very unstable)

The USA is unstable?? Not sure where you got that idea.

Quote from: Sconosciuto on July 23, 2016, 10:50:52 AM

What the hell? Is your networth 7 figures? Why is someone of this caliber frequenting internet forums?

I find it fascinating to interact with the common folk.

(If I'm gonna be judged on wealth, might as well get arrogant about it)

Why are YOU here??? You are already 5'9?? 175cm??? I'll never understand average height guys wanting to do this. (that's within an inch of average for virtually all western countries)

Quote from: paddy10tellys on July 23, 2016, 10:56:39 AM

Yeah, CCMidwest, how come you are in here hanging out with us loosers?
..jokes
I think he's doing research & he may actually like some of us...

Hate to correct you paddyton,

but,

"Looser" means "not tight" (like my ex-girlfriend)

"Loser" means "not a winner" (also...like my ex-girlfriend)

Mostly I am here because it is really, really difficult to get LL out of your head! It's much easier to accept the things you can't change. Plus, I am curious about the two current Dr. Guichet diaries (dream catcher and takanori), and about two of the upcoming diaries (yours paddyton, and penguinn)

Edit: Ok, more honest answer about why I am still here. I find it cathartic to be part of a group of men that have the same "problem" I do, short stature (even if I am not really that short)

Where I live, I can go several days without seeing another man my height or shorter.

YourSpaceBoyfriend · « **Reply #25 on:** July 23, 2016, 12:34:55 PM »

I don't remember who the hell was that but wasn't there a 5'6 guy that got millions because he programmed some popular application?

Some people just want to get LL for sake of it and searching for information is quite normal idk why are you suprised lol.

btw midwest i recently finished my car driving license and you know...

CCMidwest · « **Reply #26 on:** July 23, 2016, 12:42:31 PM »

Quote from: YourSpaceBoyfriend on July 23, 2016, 12:34:55 PM

I don't remember who the hell was that but wasn't there a 5'6 guy that got millions because he programmed some popular application?

Some people just want to get LL for sake of it and searching for information is quite normal idk why are you suprised lol.

btw midwest i recently finished my car driving license and you know...

That's "doingitforme" that you are thinking of. It sounds like DIFM's hard work and tenacity really paid off for him. That's great!

I don't understand the driver's license comment?

CCMidwest · « **Reply #27 on:** July 23, 2016, 12:45:10 PM »

I'll say this about "wealth"

It does not make you happy. Someone on this forum said "it won't make you happy, but will just make you less sad", and they are 100% correct.

(although it is much more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes)

YourSpaceBoyfriend · « **Reply #28 on:** July 23, 2016, 12:55:32 PM »

I'm just in a need for a car.. whatever.

Obviously money alone won't make anybody happy but having good and stable financial situation gives you less to worry about.

Quote from: CCMidwest on July 23, 2016, 12:23:39 PM

Edit: Ok, more honest answer about why I am still here. I find it cathartic to be part of a group of men that have the same "problem" I do, short stature (even if I am not really that short)

Where I live, I can go several days without seeing another man my height or shorter.

5'5 living in 5'11 avg country reporting and i confirm that.
Community here is just not as bad as /r/short or freakin make me taller that would blame absolutly everything cuz of their height.

There is just a lot of realistic people around here thats all im saying.

CCMidwest · « **Reply #29 on:** July 23, 2016, 01:03:28 PM »

Quote from: YourSpaceBoyfriend on July 23, 2016, 12:55:32 PM

I'm just in a need for a car.. whatever.

Lol! I get it now, apparently I need more coffee...

Quote from: YourSpaceBoyfriend on July 23, 2016, 12:55:32 PM

5'5 living in 5'11 avg country reporting and i confirm that.
Community here is just not as bad as /r/short or freakin make me taller that would blame absolutly everything cuz of their height.

There is just a lot of realistic people around here thats all im saying.

Exactly this.

I can't handle the amount of despair on r/short. Wow. And the guys that have success on r/short just get down-voted to hell, even though they are just trying to help. And it seems like the guys that are just barely below average (5'7, 5'8 ) are the ones that blame all their troubles on their height!

Sconosciuto · « **Reply #30 on:** July 23, 2016, 02:47:38 PM »

Quote from: CCMidwest on July 23, 2016, 12:42:31 PM

That's "doingitforme" that you are thinking of. It sounds like DIFM's hard work and tenacity really paid off for him. That's great!

I've just skimmed through his diary. He was awfully vague about what he did or how his app became profitable. He mentioned he spent US$ 100K on his surgey+ expenses! I looked up the revenue models of apps but nothing justified, he might have built something mind-blowing, original and out-of-the-box novelty .
This might be an excellent alternative to the uncertainty of finding a high-paying job abroad.
I need to be acquainted to revenue models and monetization of apps then I'll teach myself how to build apps not just any app, it must be something original. I might need to travel to USA after I'm done. This is how bad I want this surgery.

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Author Topic: Saving up money for LL surgery (Read 14745 times)