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[Mtall]

If one was to do externals only on the Tibias, how long from the day of the surgery will he have to endure the horrible pain that comes with LL?
Is there a point at which the pain is the worst? When is that point?
When is the worst pain?
How long does this whole "pain phase" last?

Externals only. Current height: 166.8 cms, Desired height: 172.2 cms (lengthening 4.9 cms external only)

[jaymorgan712]

Hey mtall! I am about to get this surgery done in August-November this year and I have spoken with dozens of people (even a few people I have spoken to in my country) who did this surgery. The first 2-3 days is the worst according to so many people. It's 11/10 of pain on the first 2-3 days....then it goes down to about 10/10 for the next 3-4 days. After that the pain will come and go. When the pain randomly comes back it's about 7/10 of pain, and the more you stretch your bones/muscles it's about a 6/10 of pain once you get to around 5 centimeters. Then about a 9/10 of pain once you get the 7.5 centimeter mark.

All in all, there is also a lot of discomfort when you are walking on your leg during the lengthening and consolidation phase. Discomfort has been described as a 7/10. So, all in all, it is a doable journey. But the first week is the worst. Almost every one I spoke to who had the surgery done told me this. Hope this helps! Good luck with your surgery too!

[CCMidwest]

Hey mtall! I am about to get this surgery done in August-November this year and I have spoken with dozens of people (even a few people I have spoken to in my country) who did this surgery. The first 2-3 days is the worst according to so many people. It's 11/10 of pain on the first 2-3 days....then it goes down to about 10/10 for the next 3-4 days. After that the pain will come and go. When the pain randomly comes back it's about 7/10 of pain, and the more you stretch your bones/muscles it's about a 6/10 of pain once you get to around 5 centimeters. Then about a 9/10 of pain once you get the 7.5 centimeter mark.

All in all, there is also a lot of discomfort when you are walking on your leg during the lengthening and consolidation phase. Discomfort has been described as a 7/10. So, all in all, it is a doable journey. But the first week is the worst. Almost every one I spoke to who had the surgery done told me this. Hope this helps! Good luck with your surgery too!

Here's my question regarding pain. 10/10 pain in the US medical community is described as uncontrollable screaming, vomiting, losing bladder control, passing out, and if it goes on long enough...suicide. 10/10 pain is why people jump to their deaths out of burning buildings.

Is LL pain really that high?

[Mtall]

Hey JMorgan. All the best. So does that mean that I will be spared a lot of bad pain since I'm only doing 4.9 cms?
And, is there any time in the consolidation phase when the pain completely stops? How many months after is that (when it fully stops)

[Mtall]

Umm bro. I don't think so and I really, really fking hope not. Hahahaha lol

[jaymorgan712]

Hey JMorgan. All the best. So does that mean that I will be spared a lot of bad pain since I'm only doing 4.9 cms?
And, is there any time in the consolidation phase when the pain completely stops? How many months after is that (when it fully stops)

Thanks mate.

Yes, 4.9 centimeters is acceptable by every surgeon for doing the tibia. 4.9 cm is not a dangerous amount and it's not that painful or hard to achieve.

Well to answer your question most of the people I spoke to in person did 6, 7 or 8cm in the tibia and the consolidation phase was a little bit longer. Because, the more you stretch...the longer it takes, the more painful it gets and you may be in pain for up to 6 months if you do 7 cm or over in the tibia during the consolidation phase.

So I doubt anything disastrous will happen to you, because you're just doing 4.9 cm. I think it's a good aim and you should definitely achieve it. Almost everyone makes it to 5 cm without anything horrible happening to them, so I would say you are making a realistic decision.

[CCMidwest]

Umm bro. I don't think so and I really, really fking hope not. Hahahaha lol

I've had pain that high from an arm injury. Wet my pants, screaming, passing out, vomiting, begging for death for real. I really don't see how LL could possibly be an actual 10/10 on the pain scale.

Maybe some LL veterans will chime in.

[Ozymandias]

Hey mtall! I am about to get this surgery done in August-November this year and I have spoken with dozens of people (even a few people I have spoken to in my country) who did this surgery. The first 2-3 days is the worst according to so many people. It's 11/10 of pain on the first 2-3 days....then it goes down to about 10/10 for the next 3-4 days. After that the pain will come and go. When the pain randomly comes back it's about 7/10 of pain, and the more you stretch your bones/muscles it's about a 6/10 of pain once you get to around 5 centimeters. Then about a 9/10 of pain once you get the 7.5 centimeter mark.

I don't believe it. As CCMidwest said, 10/10 pain means that you want to kill yourself. It would be simply impossible to withstand a 10/10 pain for 5-7 days. And even if it was possible, no serious doctor would allow that situation. Epidural and spinal anaesthesia are out there for a reason.

[CCMidwest]

I don't believe it. As CCMidwest said, 10/10 pain means that you want to kill yourself. It would be simply impossible to withstand a 10/10 pain for 5-7 days. And even if it was possible, no serious doctor would allow that situation. Epidural and spinal anaesthesia are out there for a reason.

That's exactly the point I was getting at. I am NOT down-playing the pain for sure, but I think (hope) actual 10/10 pain being reported is a bit of an exaggeration. I mean, I only had 10/10 pain when I had my arm cut open without any pain killers or anything, to stop me from bleeding out. I had exposed muscle, compound fracture (bone pushed out of the skin), exposed ulnar nerve, severed artery (vein, whatever), etc. THAT'S 10/10 pain.

I just don't see how LL can be to that level of pain. Not in a controlled environment under a good doctor. People would kill themselves very quickly.

[Mtall]

So, JMorgan....which country do you plan on doing LL in?

[Whereintheworld?]

mtall,

I just had my surgery this last Thursday, tibia external only.
From the moment I woke up out of surgery I haven't really had any pain to speak of. Granted, the nurses gave me painkillers 2-3 times a day on Thursday and Friday, and I took one Saturday night when I got back to my apartment. When I'm walking around, I can feel soreness where the pins and screws go into my leg, but even this subsides a great deal as the day goes on.
 I may give this feeling a 1/10, just for the sake of argument. My doctor told me as much has been the case for the majority of his patients, but that of course the level of pain will increase once I start lengthening next week, about 12 days after the initial operation.
*I'm not trying to paint a nice picture for you, only what I've personally experienced and what I've been told by my doctor.

[KrP1]

No one will could have 10/10 pain and be months that way.
From my experience with internals i say 2/3 at most

[LLuser1]

Except when doing exercises with that PT guy of yours... remember your unbearable pain?

[CCMidwest]

Except when doing exercises with that PT guy of yours... remember your unbearable pain?

Well...it makes sense that doing stretching exercises on your broken legs probably hurts a bit. Duh.

Stay on topic.

The original question by the OP is: how long does the worst of the pain last?

I don't think his question has been answered.

[Mtall]

Hey guys. I'm the original poster who asked this question.
So, is the general rule that....the less you lengthen, the less pain you will experience?
Is there a direct correlation between amount lengthened and amount of total pain?

[ub40]

Well...it makes sense that doing stretching exercises on your broken legs probably hurts a bit. Duh.

Stay on topic.

The original question by the OP is: how long does the worst of the pain last?

I don't think his question has been answered.

It's probably 3-4 level pain for the first week and then subsides gradually for the first month. When you hit your leg on something or if the AC is on too cold there are sharp spikes periodically but after about a month you don't really notice anything

I wouldn't put the pain above a mild headache to be honest and immediately after the surgery your on painkillers so you don't really feel much.

Seriously if it was that bad no one would do this surgery

[ub40]

Hey guys. I'm the original poster who asked this question.
So, is the general rule that....the less you lengthen, the less pain you will experience?
Is there a direct correlation between amount lengthened and amount of total pain?

The worst pain is in the very beginning. Lengthening too much isn't any more painful, rather there's just a higher chance of complications and recovery issues

[Bigfaker]

Just chiming in here, IMHO I'd add that it's not a binary or linear answer.

Most of the lengthening pain can be a dull, nagging pain in your skin and nerves as the the pins tear away at them. I say it's not linear or easy to quantify/schedule because the pain can come earlier, if you catch a nerve, then go away and it may or may not come back again.

The worst pain is in the very beginning. Lengthening too much isn't any more painful, rather there's just a higher chance of complications and recovery issues

I had intense, keep-me-up-all-night pain for a bit around 4.5-5cm, then my last .75cm (past ~6.75cm), the pain got pretty horrific. I was taking Tylenol, Ultracet, Flexura-D, and Mobizox as much as they would give me. Of course, most people shouldn't lengthen more than 6cm or so.

In consolidation, all the pain is pretty dull. A lot of it for me, was in the lower back. My knee pain was mostly because of the non-union. Also, being able to tolerate the pain is one thing...being able to function with it is another. I had sporadic pains in the L knee and fibula that I could easily tolerate in themselves, but it was so difficult to walk around on it (with a single crutch) that I chose to stay home at lot...even in bed a lot of times.

As for the 1-10 scale, it's definitely useful, but still rather subjective (which is why I keep my own personal Pain Meter). I have always had a high tolerance for pain. I've participated in some extreme fighting sports (WAY beyond the pains of American football or rugby) and I will tell you: when I accidentally set my newly-broken leg on the floor, 4th day post-osteotomy, it was surely a 9.5 for a few seconds. Had I to endure minutes of that, I would have jumped out the window...you know, a 99 on the BPM. 

[CCMidwest]

Bigfaker,

What caused back pain when you did tibias?

[Bigfaker]

When you are bed-bound and chair-bound for months, it's not just your leg muscles that weaken and atrophy. Your core muscles suffer a lot. It wasn't just me and my old age, either. I heard this form other patients I know personally and I also remember Sweden talking about it in his diary.

It's also possible that the mushy pads we had to sleep on -- then the block of granite I slept on in the first hotel -- did a number on my back as well. My right shoulder for sure (I sleep on my side when possible).

We all tried to do some exercises while lengthening, but had I to do it over, I would have worked more on keeping up my core strength while I was in frames. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I dealt with back pain for at least a year and a half after frame removal. I could barely stay standing at the sink to brush my teeth without some back pain.

[CCMidwest]

So from the inactivity. Makes sense.

Thanks Bigfaker.

[Mtall]

when I accidentally set my newly-broken leg on the floor, 4th day post-osteotomy, it was surely a 9.5 for a few seconds. Had I to endure minutes of that, I would have jumped out the window...you know, a 99 on the BPM. 

I might sound silly, but I really want to know.....How many seconds? It sounded pretty scary!

And, so if I avoid lengthening above 4.7 or 4.9 cms, can I avoid the horrific pain you spoke about?

[Bigfaker]

I can't tell you exactly. Remember this happened over 31 months ago. The pain came in a big jolt then lasted maybe 15-20 seconds. The adrenaline rush protected me after that. If you are not familiar with the body/brain connection in perceiving pain, look up how analgesics work.

None of my fellow patients mentioned anything similar happening to them. It was just a freakish thing. Maybe it was the angle of the step down or perhaps the pressure caused the opposing ends of the fractured tibia to rub together. A couple weeks later (on New Year's Eve), I fell off a chair in the guest house and felt no pain from that at all.

And, so if I avoid lengthening above 4.7 or 4.9 cms, can I avoid the horrific pain you spoke about?

This was on the day I was getting discharged after frame installation. I hadn't even started lengthening, so it doesn't matter how much I would lengthen months later. But I have to reiterate, it was probably just a freak incident. Just be VERY careful when you step onto the floor before you start distracting!

[Stripes]

As everyone here has already said, the worst of the pain is experienced right after the surgery for a period of about two weeks. It's not an overwhelming pain, just a strong aching pain that's similar to post workout soreness. On a scale of 1-10 I would give it a 5/10. Throughout the lengthening process you will feel other types of pain but again it's not overwhelming although it is still painful and very irritating. Lengthening pain doing externals is mostly nerve pain which I would describe as similar to the pain you feel when experiencing cramps, only in your legs. It's impossible to ignore and sucks all of your focus on to it, but again it's manageable and with painkillers will go away. That type of pain usually only happens if you lengthen without stopping for 2 weeks but goes away after about two days of no lengthening. Overall you will experience different kinds of pain throughout the entire process but it's not as crazy as you might imagine it to be.