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[vaas]

I currently stand at 5' 9.5" throughout the day, and 5' 9.25" before bed (176.5cm - 176.25cm). I've been debating doing LL surgery for about 3 years now, and am nearly convinced to do it. One thing I'm very wary of, however, is how badly it'll impact my ability to perform in sports. I skateboard, so being able to take impact is a huge deal, as is being able to properly flick your limbs to manipulate the board.

I've always wanted to be 5' 11"(180.34cm), and feel that height would complement my 6' 1.5" wingspan. I've read a decent amount about how 5cm is the max for tibia/fibula lengthening, and that it comes with relatively low side effects, but I've also read contradictory anecdotes about how even a 5cm increase has its downfalls.

Would 3cm be a lot safer of a goal, mixed in with 1cm-2cm spine stretches through hanging and yoga (bringing me to ~180.25cm before bed)? Though 5' 11" would be spectacular to reach, being able to ollie down a 10 stair and landing without breaking my bones is a lot more important.

[applesandoranges]

I think doing 3cm on femurs is safer than tibia because femur is only one bone you have to break on each side. Also it has a longer starting length compared to tibia which means 3cm won't be too much on femur compared to 3cm on tibia.

I highly doubt you'll be the same skill wise. I think lontboarding you would be OK but not doing tricks.

[Penguinn]

Imo if you're doing LL at least do 5cms. It'll make it worthwhile and you'll be 5.11.5 which is basically 6'.

[Cheez]

I currently stand at 5' 9.5" throughout the day, and 5' 9.25" before bed (176.5cm - 176.25cm). I've been debating doing LL surgery for about 3 years now, and am nearly convinced to do it. One thing I'm very wary of, however, is how badly it'll impact my ability to perform in sports. I skateboard, so being able to take impact is a huge deal, as is being able to properly flick your limbs to manipulate the board.

I've always wanted to be 5' 11"(180.34cm), and feel that height would complement my 6' 1.5" wingspan. I've read a decent amount about how 5cm is the max for tibia/fibula lengthening, and that it comes with relatively low side effects, but I've also read contradictory anecdotes about how even a 5cm increase has its downfalls.

Would 3cm be a lot safer of a goal, mixed in with 1cm-2cm spine stretches through hanging and yoga (bringing me to ~180.25cm before bed)? Though 5' 11" would be spectacular to reach, being able to ollie down a 10 stair and landing without breaking my bones is a lot more important.

I am also doing skateboarding, and I'd say you shouldn't do it, if you are skating at that level at the moment. Especially for just 3 cm.

Enjoy being at the peak of your skills at the moment, and do the operation a couple of years later, when you won't be doing 10 stair sets anymore and are content with some flatground stuff or riding pools (like I do, I am an 41 years old fart).

[vaas]

Imo if you're doing LL at least do 5cms. It'll make it worthwhile and you'll be 5.11.5 which is basically 6'.

Quite honestly 6' doesn't really appeal to me. I still want to be closer to the average height, just on the taller side vs. being actually tall. 6' to me is just too tall, and I could always achieve 6' in heeled shoes if I had to. As a matter of fact, I'm actually going to reduce my desired LL to 2.5cm.

I am also doing skateboarding, and I'd say you shouldn't do it, if you are skating at that level at the moment. Especially for just 3 cm.

Enjoy being at the peak of your skills at the moment, and do the operation a couple of years later, when you won't be doing 10 stair sets anymore and are content with some flatground stuff or riding pools (like I do, I am an 41 years old fart).

Do you really think it would affect my performance that much? Would it affect all stair sets and coming off of, say, a 2 foot ledge/hubba?

[Alu]

I mean for the thousands of dollars you're gonna burn, to the huge amount of risk your taking... 3 CM doesn't seem too worth it.

Think this really through..

[Penguinn]

Quite honestly 6' doesn't really appeal to me. I still want to be closer to the average height, just on the taller side vs. being actually tall. 6' to me is just too tall, and I could always achieve 6' in heeled shoes if I had to. As a matter of fact, I'm actually going to reduce my desired LL to 2.5cm.

Dude I'm 5'2 and even I wouldn't do LL for 1 inch.

[vaas]

I mean for the thousands of dollars you're gonna burn, to the huge amount of risk your taking... 3 CM doesn't seem too worth it.

Think this really through..

That's why I came here, to get opinions of people who have gone through it and to see if there were any way I could do this procedure without running the risks that most LLers get by going below the maximum amount of 5cm.

So far I've read 3 people say no way, and 1 person say to consider it later in life. I'm still considering it, but not as much as I were before.

Dude I'm 5'2 and even I wouldn't do LL for 1 inch.

Why not?

[Penguinn]

Why not?

It's insignificant. And at a good height like yours.. doing this for just 1 inch.. whatever, if you're set on it. Guess everyone has their own perception.

[vaas]

It's insignificant. And at a good height like yours.. doing this for just 1 inch.. whatever, if you're set on it. Guess everyone has their own perception.

So, it's just because it's not a 4" - 6" increase that you say save my money? That makes sense, and I can see why people would say that, but I just really want to be 5' 11".

Besides that, would there be any negative consequences of a lengthening of ~3cm? I see lots of posts about the consequences of lengthening, but they're typically discussing things like 10cm+.

[Penguinn]

So, it's just because it's not a 4" - 6" increase that you say save my money? That makes sense, and I can see why people would say that, but I just really want to be 5' 11".

Besides that, would there be any negative consequences of a lengthening of ~3cm? I see lots of posts about the consequences of lengthening, but they're typically discussing things like 10cm+.

Not just your money. Time, pain and complications too.

[CCMidwest]

There's a flaw in your logic here OP.

1" (2.5cm) reduces the risk compared to 2" (5cm) but doesn't reduce the risk that LL 'as a whole' carries.

Nerves and tendons don't really have any "slack" in them (muscles could be debated)

The nerves and tendons are at the length they are supposed to be. So ANY amount of stretching carries huge risk.

Smaller amounts carry less risk than extreme amounts, yes. But not less risky than not doing LL at all.

LL carries huge risk regardless of amount done, you ADD to that risk depending on amount lengthened. But the starting risk level remains the same.

Hope that helps.

Also, I'm not being snarky here either (serious), but how do average height guys find this site? How did you?

[CCMidwest]

Besides that, would there be any negative consequences of a lengthening of ~3cm? I see lots of posts about the consequences of lengthening, but they're typically discussing things like 10cm+.

There's actually relatively few that have done that many CM's on this forum. Without actually going through each diary, I believe that most do 5 to 8 cm's.

I'm not sure if there is a single example of anyone doing less than 5cm on this forum. (without doing quads)

Which means, most of the complications these guys have talked about are in the 5 to 8 cm range of LL.

There's lots of reports in the diaries that tightness and complications arose around the 5cm mark, and quite a few have expressed regret that they did more than 5cm.

But, 5cm is a psychological limit of sorts for most, since it is 2"

For the same reason retailers mark prices at $9.99 instead of $10.00, there is a mental change that happens at certain numbers. 5cm seems to be that number. 8cm is the next number, because it is the limit of internal precice rods.

In other words, there is little evidence that 3cm is less risky than 5cm.

[vaas]

Also, I'm not being snarky here either (serious), but how do average height guys find this site? How did you?

It helps, thank you for your time.

I found this site because I feel small and because the average height for white people is 5' 10". I wanted to be above average in height, and years ago I was extremely insecure about it so I looked up 'how to get taller'. I recently found this site by looking up how stretching can increase your height by 2cm, and I remembered years ago looking into LL surgery wanting to get to 6' 2", so I just researched it again and voila.

There's actually relatively few that have done that many CM's on this forum. Without actually going through each diary, I believe that most do 5 to 8 cm's.

I'm not sure if there is a single example of anyone doing less than 5cm on this forum. (without doing quads)

Which means, most of the complications these guys have talked about are in the 5 to 8 cm range of LL.

There's lots of reports in the diaries that tightness and complications arose around the 5cm mark, and quite a few have expressed regret that they did more than 5cm.

But, 5cm is a psychological limit of sorts for most, since it is 2"

For the same reason retailers mark prices at $9.99 instead of $10.00, there is a mental change that happens at certain numbers. 5cm seems to be that number. 8cm is the next number, because it is the limit of internal precice rods.

In other words, there is little evidence that 3cm is less risky than 5cm.

Not even theoretical evidence? I've read on old forums that 5cm is the maximum that anybody should do, and that it's the amount that carries the least complications and the least risk, so I figured less would decrease those chances by more. I guess I'll have to do more looking around.

Going off other's experiences, and just hypothetically, how do you personally feel about 3cm of increase? Or do you personally feel that any amount of increase in height is too risky for cosmetic purposes?

[TIBIKE200]

No one here has a right to tell you if 3cm is not worth it. If it's worth to you, than go with it that's all.

[CCMidwest]

Not even theoretical evidence? I've read on old forums that 5cm is the maximum that anybody should do, and that it's the amount that carries the least complications and the least risk, so I figured less would decrease those chances by more. I guess I'll have to do more looking around.

Going off other's experiences, and just hypothetically, how do you personally feel about 3cm of increase? Or do you personally feel that any amount of increase in height is too risky for cosmetic purposes?

I've decided against LL for myself. I'm neither pro LL nor against LL. Do what you want for sure. In actuality, I'd love to see a diary of someone doing so little. So make sure you post about it if you go forward.

LL might still be in my future at some point, but I have too much to risk right now. But I would never do this for such a small amount, just for the fact that no one, even myself, would even notice. There is not any benefit to 3cm, to me, that I can see. 3cm's isn't anything heeled shoes couldn't do for you.

One of the reasons I decided against LL was I'm not convinced 5cm is even enough, and I'm too chicken sh*t to do more.

Just think it through man, that's all you can do.

No one here has a right to tell you if 3cm is not worth it. If it's worth to you, than go with it that's all.

True.

ETA: Feeling small at 1/2" under average? Really? If I was 5'9.5 I'd take all that LL money and buy one-on-one training with the best personal trainer in town and put on some serious muscle. Or buy a BMW. Or a Mercedes SL400 (girls love those, trust me)

[vaas]

No one here has a right to tell you if 3cm is not worth it. If it's worth to you, than go with it that's all.

Well, it's worth it to me until it isn't worth it to me, you know? I'm more than willing to take criticism from people on here so long as it's based around risks and not based around my goals.

If there's sound evidence supporting the idea that 3cm LL would result in 100% (or near 100%) recovery in athletic performance with a nearly negligible percent chance of running into complications, then I'm all for going through with getting the operation. I could just do spine hangs and stretches to make up for the other 1cm-2cm (well, 2cm if I'm lucky) for a true 5' 11" height.

However, if I won't be able to sprint, swim, jump, take impact, lift heavy weights, or anything of the like after 2 years/forever, then it'll definitely not be worth it, and I might just stick with the yoga, hanging, and other alternative methods of spine stretching to just peak above 5' 10" naturally.

[Alittletooshort]

Well, it's worth it to me until it isn't worth it to me, you know? I'm more than willing to take criticism from people on here so long as it's based around risks and not based around my goals.

If there's sound evidence supporting the idea that 3cm LL would result in 100% (or near 100%) recovery in athletic performance with a nearly negligible percent chance of running into complications, then I'm all for going through with getting the operation. I could just do spine hangs and stretches to make up for the other 1cm-2cm (well, 2cm if I'm lucky) for a true 5' 11" height.

However, if I won't be able to sprint, swim, jump, take impact, lift heavy weights, or anything of the like after 2 years/forever, then it'll definitely not be worth it, and I might just stick with the yoga, hanging, and other alternative methods of spine stretching to just peak above 5' 10" naturally.

I think 3cm´s seems to be a noticebale amount, especially if you consider that your recovery will be much switfer and that your proportions will stay pretty much undamaged.
My height is similar to yours and I can fully understand your decision to do a small amount. Once you hit 180 you´ll be considered pretty much average in all the western countries.
I personally would also do 4cm´s max and I may stick to 3 as well (If I really decide to do this).
If you believe that 3cm´s will make you happy do it. Every mm more increases the risk of complications and make the process much longer and more painful.

[TIBIKE200]

Well, it's worth it to me until it isn't worth it to me, you know? I'm more than willing to take criticism from people on here so long as it's based around risks and not based around my goals.

If there's sound evidence supporting the idea that 3cm LL would result in 100% (or near 100%) recovery in athletic performance with a nearly negligible percent chance of running into complications, then I'm all for going through with getting the operation. I could just do spine hangs and stretches to make up for the other 1cm-2cm (well, 2cm if I'm lucky) for a true 5' 11" height.

However, if I won't be able to sprint, swim, jump, take impact, lift heavy weights, or anything of the like after 2 years/forever, then it'll definitely not be worth it, and I might just stick with the yoga, hanging, and other alternative methods of spine stretching to just peak above 5' 10" naturally.

You are asking the wrong people about recovery.
99% of people here have never done LL. Out of the remaining 1%, more than half or even 3/4 did either femurs or tibs with  ty docs.
 Wanna know what will happen to you (Functionally speaking)? Talk to people who actually did it...

[Penguinn]

99% of people here have never done LL.

That's a bit of a stretch..
Unless you meant this thread.

[TIBIKE200]

That's a bit of a stretch..
Unless you meant this thread.

This thread and almost all of the active members...

[ortholengthening]

There's a flaw in your logic here OP.

1" (2.5cm) reduces the risk compared to 2" (5cm) but doesn't reduce the risk that LL 'as a whole' carries.

Nerves and tendons don't really have any "slack" in them (muscles could be debated)

The nerves and tendons are at the length they are supposed to be. So ANY amount of stretching carries huge risk.

I would disagree. smaller amounts of lengthening DO present less risks to nerves and tendons.
the less you do, the less likelihood of ballerina.
the less stretch you put on nerves, less chance of nerve injury.
as an example when ortho surgeons perform total hip replacement and there is limb length discrepancy they will only lengthen a certain amount as greater lengthening exponentially exposes the nerve to injury
also less amount of lengthening means shorter period of lengthening, earlier initiation of consolidation, less chance of nonunion, shorter muscle atrophy, shorter rehab.
also if you are considering externals that means less time in pins, overall, less risk of pin tract infection.

that said, I too echo the sediments of many others in this thread when saying 3 cm in a 5'9.5'' person seems like much at all. but i guess to each his or her own.

[Peaceout]

Go for 4(or something like 4.2-4.3) cm.I really dont think 1 cm after 3 will be so devastating.3 cm is really wont worth the pain,time and the risk man(im not including money..)You will be a solid 180-181 which is a really great height imo.

[TIBIKE200]

I will tell you this based one what I heard from people who underwent or are still going through the procedure right now.

 The procedure is not risk free. One complication which is not so much rare for ex-tibs is misallignment (check sweden's diary). The question is; is your doc capabale of resolving such complication? Lumier had this complication during LL but it was resolved thanks to a capable doc. Sweden's complication on the other hand wasn't because Sarin is incompetent.
  You need to choose a doc based on two main criteria: (1) operative skills which means that any surgical complications are lowered to minimum (2) post operative skills which means that in case of some common complications, the doc will be able to resolve them without any sequelas (or atleast any sequelas that will have an impact on your daily life and activities).
 Budget should not be a consideration at all when it comes to safety. There are some low cost capable docs (in my opinion) but since I wasnt operated by them I wont post about them.

 From the ex patients I have spoken to, ALL have regained their previous athletisicm (after 1-2 years since frame removal) and the all did more than 3cm (even 6cm)

[vaas]

I will tell you this based one what I heard from people who underwent or are still going through the procedure right now.

 The procedure is not risk free. One complication which is not so much rare for ex-tibs is misallignment (check sweden's diary). The question is; is your doc capabale of resolving such complication? Lumier had this complication during LL but it was resolved thanks to a capable doc. Sweden's complication on the other hand wasn't because Sarin is incompetent.
  You need to choose a doc based on two main criteria: (1) operative skills which means that any surgical complications are lowered to minimum (2) post operative skills which means that in case of some common complications, the doc will be able to resolve them without any sequelas (or atleast any sequelas that will have an impact on your daily life and activities).
 Budget should not be a consideration at all when it comes to safety. There are some low cost capable docs (in my opinion) but since I wasnt operated by them I wont post about them.

 From the ex patients I have spoken to, ALL have regained their previous athletisicm (after 1-2 years since frame removal) and the all did more than 3cm (even 6cm)

Cheers for the info! Now, when you say they regained their previous athleticism, is that relative to the person? Meaning, they regained their previous athleticism but they weren't very athletic to begin with?

ETA: Feeling small at 1/2" under average? Really? If I was 5'9.5 I'd take all that LL money and buy one-on-one training with the best personal trainer in town and put on some serious muscle. Or buy a BMW. Or a Mercedes SL400 (girls love those, trust me)

I know, I still feel small though. All of my friends are within the 5' 11" - 6' 3" range, with maybe 2 of them being smaller than me (5' 7" and 5' 2").

[aspirant185]

Your friends will notice and will tease you forever and will accuse you that you have uncertainties and psychological issues

[CCMidwest]

I would disagree. smaller amounts of lengthening DO present less risks to nerves and tendons.
the less you do, the less likelihood of ballerina.
the less stretch you put on nerves, less chance of nerve injury.
as an example when ortho surgeons perform total hip replacement and there is limb length discrepancy they will only lengthen a certain amount as greater lengthening exponentially exposes the nerve to injury
also less amount of lengthening means shorter period of lengthening, earlier initiation of consolidation, less chance of nonunion, shorter muscle atrophy, shorter rehab.
also if you are considering externals that means less time in pins, overall, less risk of pin tract infection.

that said, I too echo the sediments of many others in this thread when saying 3 cm in a 5'9.5'' person seems like much at all. but i guess to each his or her own.

I agree with you, because you agree with me. My first line literally said the risk of 3cm is less than higher amounts of lengthening.

You just spell out why the risks are less. 

But this is a high risk surgery even if you don't lengthen at all. So if you went to the doc, went under general anesthetic, had an epidural, had your bones reamed, internal rods installed, your bones cut in half (2-4 depending on segment), given narcotics, and then did no lengthening at all...it would still be high risk. Extremely invasive.

That's the "base level" of risk I am talking about. You add to the risk depending on how much you lengthen.

Didn't microman get ballerina after like 2-3cm's?

Was it Iamready's or difm's diary that talks about a guy at the Paley institute that quit after an inch or so because of difficulties?

I believe the OP is asking, "Is the risk at 3cm so much less than the risks at 5cm+, that it would be worth it?"

1. As Tibike pointed out, "worth it?" is the OP's opinion, so no way to know that.

2. As I pointed out, there is really no one that has done so little of an amount on this forum, so who knows? (which is why I would love to see a cosmetic diary for 3cm)

I've now talked to 13 total patients outside of this forum. (in person or skype, so I know they are legit) and ALL are happy. None did less than 5cm (except one who did 4cm on a single leg for a discrepancy, but he was still in an external frame) But none of them sugar coated the realities of this surgery. (which I don't think you or most other's here do either)

I actually believe that most patients turn out fine in the long run. Assuming they didn't go to a sh*t doctor.

I know, I still feel small though. All of my friends are within the 5' 11" - 6' 3" range, with maybe 2 of them being smaller than me (5' 7" and 5' 2").

I'm 5'7.5

Most my friends are taller, but not all. Wife is taller. Other girls are taller. Dad is taller. I have a 6'7 cousin. I am the shortest male cousin. I just don't give a sh*t. They never give me sh*t over my height either. Not once. I understand the feelings though, I have been there.

[ub40]

I agree with you, because you agree with me. My first line literally said the risk of 3cm is less than higher amounts of lengthening.

You just spell out why the risks are less. 

But this is a high risk surgery even if you don't lengthen at all. So if you went to the doc, went under general anesthetic, had an epidural, had your bones reamed, internal rods installed, your bones cut in half (2-4 depending on segment), given narcotics, and then did no lengthening at all...it would still be high risk. Extremely invasive.

That's the "base level" of risk I am talking about. You add to the risk depending on how much you lengthen.

Didn't microman get ballerina after like 2-3cm's?

Was it Iamready's or difm's diary that talks about a guy at the Paley institute that quit after an inch or so because of difficulties?

I believe the OP is asking, "Is the risk at 3cm so much less than the risks at 5cm+, that it would be worth it?"

1. As Tibike pointed out, "worth it?" is the OP's opinion, so no way to know that.

2. As I pointed out, there is really no one that has done so little of an amount on this forum, so who knows? (which is why I would love to see a cosmetic diary for 3cm)

I've now talked to 13 total patients outside of this forum. (in person or skype, so I know they are legit) and ALL are happy. None did less than 5cm (except one who did 4cm on a single leg for a discrepancy, but he was still in an external frame) But none of them sugar coated the realities of this surgery. (which I don't think you or most other's here do either)

I actually believe that most patients turn out fine in the long run. Assuming they didn't go to a sh*t doctor.

I'm 5'7.5

Most my friends are taller, but not all. Wife is taller. Other girls are taller. Dad is taller. I have a 6'7 cousin. I am the shortest male cousin. I just don't give a sh*t. They never give me sh*t over my height either. Not once. I understand the feelings though, I have been there.

Has anyone heard from Microman, he just kind of vanished. It would be nice to get his feedback since he is well past consolidation at this point

[CCMidwest]

Has anyone heard from Microman, he just kind of vanished. It would be nice to get his feedback since he is well past consolidation at this point

It would be nice to hear from him. Hope he's alright...

Also, I think this thread is all hypothetical, because I think the reason we don't see anyone doing 3cm is because most come to the conclusion that it is not worth it. Especially if you are average to begin with.

I don't think the few guys here that talk about such small amounts will ever actually do it.

ETA: Ub40, how many cm's ya at now? Going well I hope?

[vaas]

Your friends will notice and will tease you forever and will accuse you that you have uncertainties and psychological issues

I've already thought of a lie about my height increase. They know I do extreme sports, so telling them that I broke my legs would cover why my legs have scars on them, and stating that I did yoga and gained an inch wouldn't be hard to sell to people.

[Anna21]

Try reading some literature regarding lengthening. Go to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed and type in cosmetic leg lengthening or click on 'advanced' and search up publications from the doctor you are interested in. You'll find that research has been done (obviously) and has been published and you can read about results and conclusions. I hope that helps ease your mind a bit and give you a better view of what this surgery is all about and what can happen, as well as complications.