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[Body Builder]

Look, whoever you are, I'm most happy that you've completed your lengthening unscathed and successfully.

But please, if you would like to promote Monegal's business by stating that for all 8 of you, "clicking was totally painless" - PLEASE do it somewhere else because you are insulting our intelligence with your transparent motives.  It is people like yourselves who mislead others into thinking that this procedure is easy and painfree.

It is damned disrespectful to use this very thread to promote another doctor's practice.  It is never a GUICHET vs MONEGAL battle here, and I don't see other insecure doctors like PALEY sending their minions over to promote their dwindling businesses while bashing other doctors.

I'm sorry for you that your recovery has not been as fast as you hoped for, and I'm sure since Monegal has a perfect record of success, not being able to run faster than Usain Bolt after leg lengthening must be contrued as a complication. 

In any case, when you pass GO, don't forget to collect $200 from Monegal.

Unicorn, I don't think that Helloworld said anything so insulting to attack him like that.
Yes, I believe him when he says that his clickings were almost painless as that happens to almost everyone who uses fitbone or precise.
The extreme pain is a trait of the crap nail that Guichet uses which is the obsolere albizzia. So the thing that you or many other patients of Guichet have pains in lengthening is not something that happened to anyone nor anyone who says something different is being paid by his doctor.

Anyway, of course this is not a debate between Guichet and other doctors. But your topic should be a lesson of how a bad case of doctor Guichet is and people should avoid that doctor at all cost.
What he did to you seems that not only he cares solely about money but he is incapable of treating complications too.
If he used a nail with the right diameter for your bones and didn't make you lengthen so fast, you would be alright now.
But this doctor couldn't even do that simple things and still charges more than almost any other doctor in the world!

So things are simple, Guichet is the worst doctor for the money he wants out there and one of the worst choices for LL generally.
Anyone who goes to him after Unicorn's experience is responsible for anything that could go wrong.

[doomsday]

Look, whoever you are, I'm most happy that you've completed your lengthening unscathed and successfully.

But please, if you would like to promote Monegal's business by stating that for all 8 of you, "clicking was totally painless" - PLEASE do it somewhere else because you are insulting our intelligence with your transparent motives.  It is people like yourselves who mislead others into thinking that this procedure is easy and painfree.

It is damned disrespectful to use this very thread to promote another doctor's practice.  It is never a GUICHET vs MONEGAL battle here, and I don't see other insecure doctors like PALEY sending their minions over to promote their dwindling businesses while bashing other doctors.

I'm sorry for you that your recovery has not been as fast as you hoped for, and I'm sure since Monegal has a perfect record of success, not being able to run faster than Usain Bolt after leg lengthening must be contrued as a complication. 

In any case, when you pass GO, don't forget to collect $200 from Monegal.

They use 2 different nails and as far as I know you "dont click fitbone"

PS. I dont work for any doc xD

[LLSouthAmerica]

You click Albizzia and Fitbone. You don't click Precise, it works with electromagnetic fields and uses a machine.

[doomsday]

You click Albizzia and Fitbone. You don't click Precise, it works with electromagnetic fields and uses a machine.

really?

[Auron]

You click Albizzia and Fitbone. You don't click Precise, it works with electromagnetic fields and uses a machine.

Lmfao, this is just as funny as your monegal theories. 

[helloworld]

I think by now it is plenty obvious that Dr. Monegal is making their patients do marketing for him. However, I don't think you need to fight them in this thread so long as we all ignore them and focus on your case.

I think part of the reason of your complications in Dr. Guichet overconfidence and greed. Because he most likely noticed that the 13 mm nails was too much but he probably had cases in which nothing happened. Reducing the diameter of the nails would mean to reduce their strength which would nullify the only benefit of Guichet Nail.

Everything I say is 100% honest!
ANd I do not think that posting negative stuff about a doctor can be constructed as marketing.
I am taking my time to inform people about the procedure and actually have posted many videos so that people get a real image not only theory.

[LLSouthAmerica]

really?

My bad, I'm correct with Precise but I now remember Fitbone is also a motorized nail. Sorry for the blooper 

[LLSouthAmerica]

Everything I say is 100% honest!
ANd I do not think that posting negative stuff about a doctor can be constructed as marketing.
I am taking my time to inform people about the procedure and actually have posted many videos so that people get a real image not only theory.

I don't completely doubt you helloworld. All doctors have good and bad cases. Like I said I did LL with 10 people and they all had great results. But indeed I know that Dr. Monegal makes their patient do marketing for him in the forum and gets angry whenever a patient posts something negative and even more he doesn't allow it.

Lmfao, this is just as funny as your monegal theories. 

Not theories, I know the truth. That's why I don't speak of Monegal as a butcher but I know his devious tendencies and I trust the people who told me their version of events.

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Everything I say is 100% honest!
ANd I do not think that posting negative stuff about a doctor can be constructed as marketing.
I am taking my time to inform people about the procedure and actually have posted many videos so that people get a real image not only theory.

I think we're comparing apples and oranges here.  When you mentioned painless clicking, I assumed you meant a racheting Guichet type / ISKD nail where you've to manually rotate yourself unnaturally into a pretzel to find each click.

If you meant motorized/magnetic/automatic nails like Precice or Fitbone, then I do agree, one wouldn't suffer the way we did.  And my NHS doc added that they used ISKD twice and clicking was so traumatic for patients, now they usually default to Precice if not external fixators.

That said, if stating that the LL procedure is painless, then yes, you got my heckles up because everyone has had some form of pain during lengthening and the trauma should not be trivialized for potential LLers.

Painless leg lengthening for me is an oxymoronic statement. 

However, painless clicking?  That can definitely happen even in the case of my right leg where there was no callus formation.  In fact, it was eerily too painless.

[doomsday]

man LL is totally massed up. Tell any normal person and most of people will think youre bat shi*t crazy. I did LL and had plenty of complications, and still got non union in fibula. But i dont blame anyone apart from myself. I'm dumb as hell and I made peace with that.

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

man LL is totally massed up. Tell any normal person and most of people will think youre bat shi*t crazy. I did LL and had plenty of complications, and still got non union in fibula. But i dont blame anyone apart from myself. I'm dumb as hell and I made peace with that.

Agree.  Tell any random stranger and they'll judge you critically.  No mercy.  No empathy.

LL is definitely a russian roulette and one small complication could easily freeze 2 years of your life.

I'm dumb as well for being fullhardy, naive and not doing research properly.

[helloworld]

Look, whoever you are, I'm most happy that you've completed your lengthening unscathed and successfully.

But please, if you would like to promote Monegal's business by stating that for all 8 of you, "clicking was totally painless" - PLEASE do it somewhere else because you are insulting our intelligence with your transparent motives.  It is people like yourselves who mislead others into thinking that this procedure is easy and painfree.

It is damned disrespectful to use this very thread to promote another doctor's practice.  It is never a GUICHET vs MONEGAL battle here, and I don't see other insecure doctors like PALEY sending their minions over to promote their dwindling businesses while bashing other doctors.

I'm sorry for you that your recovery has not been as fast as you hoped for, and I'm sure since Monegal has a perfect record of success, not being able to run faster than Usain Bolt after leg lengthening must be contrued as a complication. 

In any case, when you pass GO, don't forget to collect $200 from Monegal.

I am sorry if anything I wrote cause you to feel disrespected, Unicorn.
And of course I do not want to distract people from you important message to potential LL candidates.
But I do think that people have to know that in the vast majority of cases LL has the intended results, and I think this is true for Guichet patients as well.

About the "no pain while clicking": this is really true, and I think any person with Fitbone implants would confirm that! Of course you might wake up at night in pain but clicking itself does not cause any sensation.

Please believe me, that my intention is to help other patients and potential patients. And if you are still in London, let me know if you want to meet up, as I will be here for a couple of days.

[helloworld]

Unicorn, I don't think that Helloworld said anything so insulting to attack him like that.

Thanks for defending me, Bodybuilder! :-)

[Christopherbulder]

Excuce me I'm old patient of docteur guichet agoster 2003  femur 7 cm
Docteur guichet is very best doctor is caracterial  and smal  hard  but best doctor for lengthening
the reality yes the klick albizzia is very bad for pain the first 6 weeck is relaty torsion of you leg is very very bad
imagine fitbone or precise more easy 
my opinion doctor guichet is best doctor albizzia is difficult tecknics

excuse for my bad english

[helloworld]

I think we're comparing apples and oranges here.  When you mentioned painless clicking, I assumed you meant a racheting Guichet type / ISKD nail where you've to manually rotate yourself unnaturally into a pretzel to find each click.

If you meant motorized/magnetic/automatic nails like Precice or Fitbone, then I do agree, one wouldn't suffer the way we did.  And my NHS doc added that they used ISKD twice and clicking was so traumatic for patients, now they usually default to Precice if not external fixators.

That said, if stating that the LL procedure is painless, then yes, you got my heckles up because everyone has had some form of pain during lengthening and the trauma should not be trivialized for potential LLers.

Painless leg lengthening for me is an oxymoronic statement. 

However, painless clicking?  That can definitely happen even in the case of my right leg where there was no callus formation.  In fact, it was eerily too painless.

Thanks for clarifying!
Procedure is painfull, yes. But it is hard for potential patient to know what we mean.
I honestly say that during the day I did not have much pain, but would take a lot of pain killers at night to sleep but still wake up.
But pain was still less than I expected.

[Thatdude950]

I am sorry if anything I wrote cause you to feel disrespected, Unicorn.
And of course I do not want to distract people from you important message to potential LL candidates.
But I do think that people have to know that in the vast majority of cases LL has the intended results, and I think this is true for Guichet patients as well.

About the "no pain while clicking": this is really true, and I think any person with Fitbone implants would confirm that! Of course you might wake up at night in pain but clicking itself does not cause any sensation.

Please believe me, that my intention is to help other patients and potential patients. And if you are still in London, let me know if you want to meet up, as I will be here for a couple of days.

That the "vast majority of cases have the intended result" is word gymnastics. Like something a politician would say.

Yeah, the majority of patients do end up with longer legs. No denying that.

But how many are able to do it without costly complications? Looking at the diaries here, it's definitely *not* the vast majority.

BTW Unicorn I've been lurking your diary for a while. You are very very strong to share everything so candidly. All the best, you'll get through this.

[Four Inch]

Don't be delusional and think that you're exempt from bad luck. This happened to Unicorn and me, but it might have happened to any of you.

Very wise words.  Carefully evaluate your situation when make your decision; come to terms with the fact that you could be one of those deemed as having "bad luck". 

Since I am currently going though this procedure I have had lots of PM's from those considering the procedure and I share the same advise.  Embrace the reality that this is high risk surgery. Put a tremendous amount of thought into your decision; it could be the most consequential decision you make in either improving or totally crushing your confidence and quality of life. 

[Four Inch]

Agree.  Tell any random stranger and they'll judge you critically.  No mercy.  No empathy.

LL is definitely a russian roulette and one small complication could easily freeze 2 years of your life.

I'm dumb as well for being fullhardy, naive and not doing research properly.

Hi Unicorn,

I truly do empathize with you.  From reading your diary; you definitely don't strike me as been dumb or full hardy.  I think its easy to disillusioned ourselves when making such decisions;  I think we all have to some degree in order to rationalize our decision to go though the procedure.

I wish you the very best.

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Hi Unicorn,

I truly do empathize with you.  From reading your diary; you definitely don't strike me as been dumb or full hardy.  I think its easy to disillusioned ourselves when making such decisions;  I think we all have to some degree in order to rationalize our decision to go though the procedure.

I wish you the very best.

Thank you 4" 

I think perhaps the closest example for anyone who's contemplating this surgery to imagine how it feels like when things go wrong is akin to being cheated by a tradesman when you're renovating your home.

You think you've been so careful about choosing the right contractor to renovate your house, and you've saved up for years to afford yourself a brand new kitchen and bathroom.  You definitely know what you want.

And your contractor comes highly recommended by others.  He has even shown you an amazing portfolio of completed homes and promised you a great timeline.  You are already imagining throwing a party and your friends are admiring your new home a short 3 months from now.  You gladly wire your payment over.

And before you know it, not only has he not renovated your house, but there's sudden flooding, leaking gas pipe and a mini electrical fire.  He's adamant it's not his fault, these problems were "always there waiting to rupture".  So, unless you pay him more to repair these first, he cannot start the cosmetic renovations.  So you throw good money after bad and hope for the best.

Except things get worse and you've now affected your neighbors' water and septic pipes as well, and their lawyers are hounding you around the clock.  You try to reach your contractor to solve these asap but of course, he is now nowhere to be found.

Who feels like a mug now?  I do because irregardless, I chose the contractor, I voluntarily handed over my life savings to him and I BLAME MYSELF for getting cheated. 

The anger and betrayal you feel totally consumes you beyond your broken home.  It haunts your every waking moment and sometimes when you're truly in pain do you ironically find relief... because for that one brief moment, you're not deriding yourself for being so stupid.  Pain becomes your escape.

You don't trust anyone anymore and your confidence is all shaken up.  You're pissed off at your own vanity for wanting a prettier house to show off to your friends.  You start questioning all your decisions in life. 

Above all else, you can't forgive yourself for letting this happen especially if you end up losing your home too.

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Today, I'm greeted first thing in the morning by a friend's text. "I'm so glad to hear you're better, so are you off your crutches already?"

I cannot tell you how often I get assaulted by this question, "Are you off your crutches yet?"  (YES! I'm Oscar the Grouch )

What I want to yell at the whole world is - getting off my crutches is not an indication that I've healed!  I can walk without crutches if needed (I'll post an old one on Instagram - which looks like I'm auditioning to be in MJ's Thriller music video)...

The laymen's benchmark for recovery is walking without crutches... but we, LL patients are often plagued by further recovery ailments like bones that won't join (non-union), muscle or soft tissue shortness (quads/hamstrings/pelvic/IT bands...), lordosis, scoliosis, muscle atrophy, lifetime hip/knee/joint/back/nerve pains etc. that would not rule out further surgeries required.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...  dig a little further beyond getting off one's crutches - to understand how much more time is needed to re-acquire proper walking gait, full bone consolidation, rebuilding muscle mass, pre-LL level athletic ability; not to mention a successful nail removal and full recovery from that too (because even nail removal has its host of complications...)

That said, when contemplating LL surgery, I hope you'll build enough buffer recovery time to overcome the above and more... it's not simply just about getting off your crutches.

It might save you from the 'ideal' timeline that might get perpetually delayed - to return to jobs, loved ones, social life etc. that could result in life-changing consequences.

[doomsday]

Im just curious what your ortho will do with your legs. Are they gonna leave 10 cm do a bone graft and them mach the other leg? Or are they gonna short it and mach the shorter leg which you will stop clicking?

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Im just curious what your ortho will do with your legs. Are they gonna leave 10 cm do a bone graft and them mach the other leg? Or are they gonna short it and mach the shorter leg which you will stop clicking?

Right now, they want to do a biopsy on my right leg to see what's going on in there.  She said while they have me on the operating table, they'll also do a bone graft using my hip bone + cadaver bone chip.

She says she'll try her best to maintain my current length, if possible since she doesn't want to exchange nails yet.  Although she has never bridged a gap above 5cm so she says it's very experimental.

However, should I not consolidate after this cursory bone graft, she'll have to go in there again and exchange nails to trauma ones.  That'll entail additional reaming of 1mm which could stimulate callus growth and consolidation.  While doing this, she'll probably shorten the gap by 1-2cm or more.

She's trying to avoid having to shorten my left leg too which currently stands at about 8.5cm

Hence, we're staring at Aztec's pyramid here in terms of the various steps we have to climb to finally get my right leg gap of 9.8cm to consolidate.

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Right now, they want to do a biopsy on my right leg to see what's going on in there.  She said while they have me on the operating table, they'll also do a bone graft using my hip bone + cadaver bone chip.

She says she'll try her best to maintain my current length, if possible since she doesn't want to exchange nails yet.  Although she has never bridged a gap above 5cm so she says it's very experimental.

However, should I not consolidate after this cursory bone graft, she'll have to go in there again and exchange nails to trauma ones.  That'll entail additional reaming of 1mm which could stimulate callus growth and consolidation.  While doing this, she'll probably shorten the gap by 1-2cm or more.

She's trying to avoid having to shorten my left leg too which currently stands at about 8.5cm

Hence, we're staring at Aztec's pyramid here in terms of the various steps we have to climb to finally get my right leg gap of 9.8cm to consolidate.

She says that they use Precice specifically to avoid this issue.  Because should a lengthened gap not produce sufficient calluses to join together, they'll simply reverse and shorten the gap and wait for further healing.

This reverse mechanism and constant monitoring of calluses joining are exactly what I lacked during my lengthening process.

Not only was my nail non-reversible and unstoppable, my lengthening schedule was left at 1mm+ per day until almost the end when it was reduced to 0.6mm.  I got to 7.1cm in approximately 60 days.

In hindsight, I wish I owned my lengthening process better by hounding my doctor more until I get proper answers instead of leaving my fate in his 'capable hands'.

This is my mistake that you should not have to face if you're reading this.

[Datum]

Unicorn888 I'm sorry you have to endure all this pain. I think you could have avoided the disaster using Precise, but how could you have known before surgery? I wish you good luck I sure you will have because you DO go in the right direction

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Unicorn888 I'm sorry you have to endure all this pain. I think you could have avoided the disaster using Precise, but how could you have known before surgery? I wish you good luck I sure you will have because you DO go in the right direction

Yeah, this is the learn-as-you-go lesson 

I do hope that potential LLers take the time to compare nails, doctors and get second opinions to everything. 

And that they will realistically evaluate their personal circumstances like age, gender, race, smoking/non-smoking, tolerance to pain (racheting vs. magnetic), cosmetic surgery insurance, spare finances for complications, support network and even employment situations.

Own your lengthening process, play devil's advocate and don't take a doctor's word as gospel.  We have realized that it's the high monetary stakes in the LL business that attract a certain kind of doctor.  It's rampant in this industry and par for the course.

Pre-op, I had signed paperwork acknowledging that an LL process could entail further costs and complications; little did I know one year later, I'd be looking at a runaway lengthening with equally painful runaway costs.

[EndGame]

I hope things improve for you Unicorn. Run away nails can be disastrous.  Did you end up trying Exogen? Your new doctor seems good. Might be worthwhile asking her about Zometa shot. Good luck with everything.

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

I hope things improve for you Unicorn. Run away nails can be disastrous.  Did you end up trying Exogen? Your new doctor seems good. Might be worthwhile asking her about Zometa shot. Good luck with everything.

I know, I'm deathly scared of what lies in the future for me 

Yes, have been doing Exogen since a month now, will have new xrays this Friday.

Thanks for the Zometa suggestion, I'll definitely look into it.  It appears to be a bisphosphonate drug and I've been taking Risedronate since a year with little effect.

I've a friend who had an almost miraculous healing from a leg fracture and she's in her 60's.  She was treated at a top hospital in China using alternative medicines. 

They gave her tien chi/qi (panax notoginseng), not to be confused with any other kinds of ginseng.  Apparently it's known for improving vascular health and bone healing... will try too

Another former LLer recommended AlgaeCal, am trying that now as well

[Annalisa]

Hi, unicorn.I'm pretty confident you will recover perfectly. Now you're in expert hands, and this the right track toward your improvement.

I will always  be grateful to you.

If you didn't bother to share your story, I would have  go to that greedy incompetent money-sucker, without knowing the difference between reversible and not-reversible nail (which is a fundamental factor in minimixing risks).

Your generous witness will save many people from an horrible experience.

I thank you and wish you all the best. Please, keep us updated. We're all hoping for your happy ending

[llendpoint]

How did these accidental clicks happen? I thought you have to twist the leg quite a bit for each click.

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

How did these accidental clicks happen? I thought you have to twist the leg quite a bit for each click.

When there are no bones or calluses formed, and the nail has been lengthened quite a bit, the angle to rotate becomes more and more easy/loose.

I have videos of when I first underwent surgery and it took hours to find a click at the most impossible angles, to the present, when I sit or lie down to sleep, an opening and closing click can be triggered without much movement.

That's why I have to wear a full leg brace at night, to avoid triggering any more accidental clicks.

My first accidental click happened about 2-3 weeks after finishing lengthening, when I was in a bathtub with both knees drawn to my chest.  There was a loud snap followed by incredible pain.  Upon calling the doc in a panic, I was asked to try close the click - and in doing so, we confirmed it was in fact an accidental click vs my overactive imagination.

It's super counter intuitive, that it starts off being impossibly difficult and causing so much anguish to find one click ; to a later non-fusion stage where unwanted clicks happen all too easily with the slightest knee flexion.

And should one fuse quickly (usually happens to younger men), clicking becomes quite traumatic.  This is when the boys were breaking down in tears at gym and why many of them quit earlier than the girls. 

Since girls fuse much slower, our clicking was relatively less stressful.  It's interesting that there's a perfect linear correlation where the older guys in our class lengthen the shortest amount from 3.5cm to the youngest ones (teens/early 20's) who got to 6-7cm.

And the one older guy (closer to 50s) I know who had painless clicking and got to 7cm is the very one who has non-union and is being treated with me at NHS.

[Four Inch]

And the one older guy (closer to 50s) I know who had painless clicking and got to 7cm is the very one who has non-union and is being treated with me at NHS.

I'm in this older class of patients.  I was very concerned about non-union, mostly because of my age, but decided to lengthen to the upper end of the spectrum.  Luckily, things appear to be going well at this point (emphasis on luckily); I am going to very angry at myself if things suddenly go south. 

There is a big difference between considered the consequences of lengthening to much and proceeding with the risk and lengthening that occurs entirely by accident.  While Unicorn is deserving of our empathy, I will have deserved apathy and kick in the arse!  My demise will totally be on me and me alone.

I'm rooting for you Unicorn!