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[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

hi unicorn!!

really hope this is the end of the tunnel for you!!!
how long will be your LL this time?

I'm doing my left leg this time and Guichet wants to go very slow, so that perhaps the bones will fuse better.  So I think my lengthening will last about 2-3 months.

During my right leg lengthening, because I was the only one without any stretching pains, I got to 7.2cm in about 55 days.  But maybe it was a tad too fast.

[helloworld]

2-3 month means around 72 days, which means 1mm per day!
That seems really fast! I know Guichet likes to legthen quickly, and I know you have very little muscle pain, but all the patients that I have personally met and myself have experienced better bone healing and much less pain, and overall not more time till full recovery by going 0,5-0,8 mm per day.

Maybe you could ask Guichet if lengthening 0,6 over 120 days, iE 4 months would be OK. 

[Auron]

Hi Unicorn,

Just dropping by to say that I share the same opinion as Helloworld. I started off by doing 0,81mm a day and once I hit 2cm I dropped to 0,54mm a day. Now, I'm no doctor but by doing so, your consolidation can only get better, right? Besides, we feel less pain by lengthening at a lower pace.

Good luck 

[helloworld]

At first I was pushing the doctor to try to do more like 1,1 mm per day. But then I understood, that not only do complications go up, but that by lengthening faster I am not generating more bone, nor tendons or muscles and that the total time until I am able to walk would be less by lengthening faster.

I know there are many different opinions, but I think usually it is the patients trying to push the speed, thinking they will be done faster.

This is what they say at the Beijing clinic:
http://www.leg-lengthening.com/More%20FAQ.pdf

Q: How long does it take?
For an increase of 5cm, healthy adult should expect the whole process to take about 3-4 months
from operation, to being able to walk again. Some people will take longer. For those who are
particularly fit, healthy and who can tolerate pain better, it may be possible to recover much more
quickly. Whilst the bone can regenerate at a rate of 1 mm per day, muscles, blood vessels, nerves
and tendons grow more slowly, and so a lengthening rate of 0.5 mm per day is recommended as the
maximum for a normal, healthy adult. Some doctors allow 1.00mm per day lengthening, but at this
pace of lengthening, muscle and tendon problems are common, especially with the knees and ankles.
(Opinion: We strongly advises against lengthening any faster than 0.6 mm per day).

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

At first I was pushing the doctor to try to do more like 1,1 mm per day. But then I understood, that not only do complications go up, but that by lengthening faster I am not generating more bone, nor tendons or muscles and that the total time until I am able to walk would be less by lengthening faster.

I know there are many different opinions, but I think usually it is the patients trying to push the speed, thinking they will be done faster.

This is what they say at the Beijing clinic:
http://www.leg-lengthening.com/More%20FAQ.pdf

Q: How long does it take?
For an increase of 5cm, healthy adult should expect the whole process to take about 3-4 months
from operation, to being able to walk again. Some people will take longer. For those who are
particularly fit, healthy and who can tolerate pain better, it may be possible to recover much more
quickly. Whilst the bone can regenerate at a rate of 1 mm per day, muscles, blood vessels, nerves
and tendons grow more slowly, and so a lengthening rate of 0.5 mm per day is recommended as the
maximum for a normal, healthy adult. Some doctors allow 1.00mm per day lengthening, but at this
pace of lengthening, muscle and tendon problems are common, especially with the knees and ankles.
(Opinion: We strongly advises against lengthening any faster than 0.6 mm per day).

Yup, agree with you both and Beijing statement.  And it also really depends on the individual.

From knowing Guichet patients, I think if you're young and male, chances are you'll fuse quite quickly.  So Guichet will lengthen quite fast to stop the fusion so that it becomes less painful.  I know, counter intuitive, but I've seen it work perfectly.

In my case, because I'm old and female, in hindsight, me not suffering any pain at all was a sure sign that I wasn't forming bone and my soft tissues were not generating as fast or are stretched too thin.  So going fast was not at all ideal, especially for females.

Also, I've seen in Guichet's patients, the ones who lengthened no more than 5cm healed very quickly/had full consolidation.  They even recovered normal walking in a very short time (as little as 2 weeks).  So my conclusion is, don't get too greedy with speed and length because the lengthened gap might not heal/consolidate later.

Anyway, my surgery got cancelled today, I cannot be more sad.  I don't know when the next date is.  I really thought I could get started on my last leg of this journey.

Have to focus on positive thoughts.  Have just bought a place in London yesterday.  Will spend all my time renovating/decorating house. 

In the meantime, as usual, I love my lengthened leg and glutes.  Totally Swimsuit Illustrated...  just need to finish up this process

For scar healing, I found those Hansaplast, Cica-care scar gel silicone patches work like a dream.  All my keloids and bumpy scars have disappeared and there's just some discoloring left which is fading every day.  So that's a blessing.

[helloworld]

Anyway, my surgery got cancelled today, I cannot be more sad.  I don't know when the next date is.  I really thought I could get started on my last leg of this journey.

That really sucks! I could imagine how badly you want to finalize the process, and now you have to wait again!
Hope your new home keeps you busy, so not to think about the unfinished leg.

[notimportant]

Unicorn888 is more a case of Musicmaker II than you Helloworld!

[The Kaiser]

Yup, agree with you both and Beijing statement.  And it also really depends on the individual.

From knowing Guichet patients, I think if you're young and male, chances are you'll fuse quite quickly.  So Guichet will lengthen quite fast to stop the fusion so that it becomes less painful.  I know, counter intuitive, but I've seen it work perfectly.

In my case, because I'm old and female, in hindsight, me not suffering any pain at all was a sure sign that I wasn't forming bone and my soft tissues were not generating as fast or are stretched too thin.  So going fast was not at all ideal, especially for females.

Also, I've seen in Guichet's patients, the ones who lengthened no more than 5cm healed very quickly/had full consolidation.  They even recovered normal walking in a very short time (as little as 2 weeks).  So my conclusion is, don't get too greedy with speed and length because the lengthened gap might not heal/consolidate later.

Anyway, my surgery got cancelled today, I cannot be more sad.  I don't know when the next date is.  I really thought I could get started on my last leg of this journey.

Have to focus on positive thoughts.  Have just bought a place in London yesterday.  Will spend all my time renovating/decorating house. 

In the meantime, as usual, I love my lengthened leg and glutes.  Totally Swimsuit Illustrated...  just need to finish up this process

For scar healing, I found those Hansaplast, Cica-care scar gel silicone patches work like a dream.  All my keloids and bumpy scars have disappeared and there's just some discoloring left which is fading every day.  So that's a blessing.

When you say young how old do you mean between what to what?

[assa13ssin]

Anyway, my surgery got cancelled today, I cannot be more sad.  I don't know when the next date is.  I really thought I could get started on my last leg of this journey.

That really sucks! I could imagine how badly you want to finalize the process, and now you have to wait again!
Hope your new home keeps you busy, so not to think about the unfinished leg.

hello unicorn, do you still have to train in that period??

I dont know if it is easy for side sleepers to do LL with Dr Guichet, is it illegal to sleep on the side during LL?

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Thanks HelloWorld!

Only positive thoughts 

We just have to roll with the punches sometimes, when life hands out lemons

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

I mean below 30, at least the ones I see who healed super quick, definitely those below 25.  And MALE.

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Yes, I work out everyday, at least 2x30 mins on stationary bike, and lots of walking with crutches to bear weight to promote bone growth.

And all the knee flexion exercises to keep my joints flexible.

Lastly, not at all illegal to sleep on the side.  But right after surgery for at least 2 weeks, you can't get on your side or on your stomach because of your wounds.  It's just too painful

But after, you definitely can.  I'm a side foetal position sleeper, but it wasn't until probably the 3rd month before I could last an entire night on my side.

The problem that nobody realizes in the beginning is your legs are achy and sore all the time, if it stays in the same position for over 5 mins.  So you have to constantly stretch and move around.  Just to shake off the achiness.

Also, for mechanical clicking like Guichet's, sleeping on the side can trigger an accidental click very quickly if you're not careful as you're placing yourself in the very same position of racheting.

Hope this is helpful.

[assa13ssin]

so why the Dr postponed your surgery? any good reason?

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

He had a patient in Milan who had a very small window in his schedule to remove his nails.  So he went to Milan instead and postponed my surgery.  It is what it is. 

[assa13ssin]

so do you have a new operation date now unicorn??

[snowcloud]

Hi Unicorn, how are you feeling now, have you get more callus in your leg, how you well, thanks

[snowcloud]

Hi UNICORN, hope you well, do you have any update, thanks

[682]

This only makes me further believe that Dr Guichet lengthens at a rate that isn't optimal or conducive to consolidation or limiting damage to soft tissue. You said earlier that it may have been too fast - did Dr Guichet not comment on this?

[snowcloud]

Hi UNICORN, how are you, long time have see you update, just worry about you

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

For whatever his reasons were, he says now my new lengthening on my left leg (which has yet to begin still), will be doubly slower than my previous experience.  So, it's either too fast or maybe being Asian, I'm a slow healer who'll not form bones quickly irregardless of how fast or slow I lengthened.  Again, this surgery is sooo experimental and individualistic, it's hard to pinpoint what is exactly right or wrong, because everytime we think we chance upon a solid theory, someone else has a completely different experience.

I just met an Asian girl who broke her femur while playing polo.  It took her 1.5 years to finally form bones and worst, her fracture resulted in one shorter leg, so she had to do some lengthening to regain her disproportionate leg.

So I can't tell.  Neither can Guichet.  He claims it's only happened to him one other time where a patient had one healed leg and one non fused leg.  Whatever.

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Hi UNICORN, how are you, long time have see you update, just worry about you

Hi Snowcloud,

Thanks for your concerns.  Didn't mean to ignore you.  I keep getting banned from this forum with no end date.  Whatever that means.  So I can't log in most of the time.

I've absolute no news to report as no news fr the wonderful doctor either for over 2 weeks.  I give up.  I guess when you become a liability to a doc, you're prob not top on his priority list.  In fact, I think if I got hit by a bus tomorrow, some people would be quite relieved.

[doomsday]

For whatever his reasons were, he says now my new lengthening on my left leg (which has yet to begin still), will be doubly slower than my previous experience.  So, it's either too fast or maybe being Asian, I'm a slow healer who'll not form bones quickly irregardless of how fast or slow I lengthened.  Again, this surgery is sooo experimental and individualistic, it's hard to pinpoint what is exactly right or wrong, because everytime we think we chance upon a solid theory, someone else has a completely different experience.

I just met an Asian girl who broke her femur while playing polo.  It took her 1.5 years to finally form bones and worst, her fracture resulted in one shorter leg, so she had to do some lengthening to regain her disproportionate leg.

So I can't tell.  Neither can Guichet.  He claims it's only happened to him one other time where a patient had one healed leg and one non fused leg.  Whatever.

You should try HGH nad stem cells

[KiloKAHN]

I keep getting banned from this forum with no end date.  Whatever that means.  So I can't log in most of the time.

Sorry you're having issues. If you're not logging in from a proxy server then it could be the case that wherever you're staying shares an IP with a previously banned user. Best way to sort it out is type Admin in the recipient field when sending a message and ask what's going on.

[Annalisa]

I'm so sorry to feel you're so gloomy, and even more about Guichet not being supporting enough, now that you needs the greatest psychological help, after almost an year of dealing with such painful situation. I now don't know what to think about him anymore.

I didn't know about asian bones being the harder to heal, I thought you say it was a sex issue. Do you think the problem is mainly racial genetic, or it also depends on an excessive lengthening or not enough pre-op preparation? Do you think that stopping at 6cm, would it have prevented the complications?

I wish you the best. Stay strong!

[YellowSpike]

I'm still overall happy with my choice to go with Dr. Guichet. But I agree, he is sometimes very hard to get in touch with, and if you're not one of his "current top priority/brand new patients," (and I'm very surprised to hear that you're having to wait, given your problems, you should be a top priority), you will often wait to hear from him. I think he's a brilliant man and a great surgeon, but sorta scatterbrain-ish. Oftentimes, very brilliant people are.

However, I will say...if Dr. Paley or Dr. Rozbruch offered a weight bearing solution where I could have been on crutches throughout the entire lengthening process, I would have gone with one of them (only because I'm from the USA). Dr. Rozbruch removed one of the screws from my femurs, and I have to say, he's very responsive and very easy to work with. Hoping he can help me with my knee pain (Dr. Guichet wants me to go to Milan to see him, but it's not exactly a hop skip and a jump, plus the cost - so I dunno).

I feel your pain. LL really does take forever. If I can resolve my knee pain, I may just leave the nails in. Now that the left screw was taken out, I have no pain at all on the left side, just the right knee pain (which I'm hoping to resolve).

[sunflower]

Hello, does anyone know if guichet is putting 13mm nails in all patients? I wonder whether too large a nail for smaller bones is affecting healing?

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

I'm still overall happy with my choice to go with Dr. Guichet. But I agree, he is sometimes very hard to get in touch with, and if you're not one of his "current top priority/brand new patients," (and I'm very surprised to hear that you're having to wait, given your problems, you should be a top priority), you will often wait to hear from him. I think he's a brilliant man and a great surgeon, but sorta scatterbrain-ish. Oftentimes, very brilliant people are.

However, I will say...if Dr. Paley or Dr. Rozbruch offered a weight bearing solution where I could have been on crutches throughout the entire lengthening process, I would have gone with one of them (only because I'm from the USA). Dr. Rozbruch removed one of the screws from my femurs, and I have to say, he's very responsive and very easy to work with. Hoping he can help me with my knee pain (Dr. Guichet wants me to go to Milan to see him, but it's not exactly a hop skip and a jump, plus the cost - so I dunno).

I feel your pain. LL really does take forever. If I can resolve my knee pain, I may just leave the nails in. Now that the left screw was taken out, I have no pain at all on the left side, just the right knee pain (which I'm hoping to resolve).

I just came to the realization after spending the entire day crying that when you're lengthening, at least for myself, I'm really alone in this.  Guichet ignores me because as you rightly say, because I'm not a brand new patient with monetary promise, but rather a hideous cripple he would rather not have limping in the same waiting room as his potential patients.

I found out yesterday thanks to someone on this forum, who was sitting outside Guichet's office waiting for a consultation in London, that Guichet is back and seeing patients.  I dialed Guichet.  Caught, he picked up and cheerily said, yes yes, we'll see each other soon, don't worry and I'll talk to you later.  So he has had time to be in London, accept appointments to see new potential patients but preferred to ignore me.  He texted me today saying I'll inform you asap when I have news, only after I rang his office since he has not followed up from his brush off yesterday.

So Yellowspike, you're right!  The monsters like myself are to be swept under the rug.  I've lost hope in this last 1 month since he cancelled my surgery.  I've lost respect for him as a doctor and a fellow human being.  As brilliant a surgeon as people claim him to be, he still created the eggshell fracture during my 1st surgery under x circumstances.  And then, not having the decency to prioritize the complicated cases before the shiny £55k new patients and extorting as much financially and emotionally from my vulnerable situation.

I know I have to dig deep and find more strength to get myself fixed with Guichet or without, but I do advise you potential LLers out there, do prepare for the worst, please.  Because when that happens, you'll quickly see, even your classmates distance themselves from you, and some will even throw you under the bus to curry a little favour with the doc (his patients are beholden to him because he delays refunding patients their surgery deposits - so patients do sell each other out to finnagle that deposit back from him).  Now I understand the paranoia with this forum.  And yes, there are worst things not being mentioned here due to blackmails and threats and yes too, that classmates lost jobs and suffered real consequences.  Please ask yourself if this is worth the good things you've got going in your life?

It's all great and good with all the success stories, but do investigate far and deep into the skill, integrity and reliability when things go wrong.  And I know now, with this surgery, the risk is very high and when crap hits the fan, the price to pay is exponential on all levels.  Don't just gloss over all the easy experiences, spend time analyzing the disappointing ones too.  Ask yourself, what would you do if you got the short end of the stick?

I'm not worried about repairing my legs but I'll be forever scarred by the endless deceit and how I've been treated.  It's funny that for all the suffering I wrote at the beginning of this journal, my brains do block out the excruciating pain (unless I smell something that reminds me of the hospital, medication or chemical urine).  But, the real damage my brains cannot block nor process, runs spiritually deeper.

I've lost so much hope and trust in people, that even if I get taller one day and am walking perfectly again... the irony is, my strive to be beautiful outside, has made me become an uglier person inside.

When my bones got broken, a part of me broke too and that I'm afraid, I do not know how to heal from.

[TIBIKE200]

Thank your for being sincere Unicorn. I can't imagine the pain and distress you are having. I truly wish you the best.

[yyes]

Unicorn,

Seeing as how Guichet is not being helpful, have you considered going to another doctor to see if they can help you out?

[notimportant]

Hi girl keep your spirits up. We will support you. You can pm if you feel sad.

In this forum there is famous case similar to yours Musicmaker in Spain. Doctor Monegal caused the fracture and blamed her in this forum. He made her wait for months and prioritized new surgeries of new patients to get more money. I guess he didn't care about her case because he was sure she wouldn't expose him, so he gave to her the poorest solutions like external fixator (it was for her not the American guy). He hid her from new patients once and again when Lluser and other people from forum visited them and even from fellow patients. He still blackmails her and other patients not to tell the truth in the forum. Musicmaker doesn't say anything because the poor girl is brainwashed but other patients who know them told me. Imagine her physical and psychological state after 3 years under the 'care' of that devil. Pure Stockholm.

Lluser advised her many times to visit another doctor and she didn't listen. She's still crippled. I would advise Dr Rozbruch or Dr Paley if you can afford.

[goldenegg]

Hi Unicorn, sorry to hear that you feel alone in this and shame on dr. G for ignoring you. you really should be his first priority. I hope he's able to fix everything and everything turns out ok for you in the long run so that this part will be a distant memory when you're done with all this. really disappointed in the doctor in the way he's handling this so far. wishing you the best unicorn!