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[Rei]

Does anyone have any data on how frequently embolism occurs?
I know of one case with Paley, which he rectified immediately, and now two with Guichet.
I'm planning on going with Giotikas ,he seems competent; however, what sort of things should I enquire about to ensure risks are minimised?

Nothing just being healhty, dunno the percentage but is really low and even if it happen it dosn’t always lead to death

[limewalk]

Nothing just being healhty, dunno the percentage but is really low and even if it happen it dosn’t always lead to death

If you don't die can you be left with other complications?

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Nah no way its entirely Guichets fault, What ? Are you not reading why he did to unicorn? From the denial that there was a problem to begin with to the inserting of the wrong size nails we can conclude it was entirely guichets fault that this poor boy died. Other doctors take more precaution for embolism such as draining the bones internal fats prior to reaming and nail insertion to avoid them getting into the blood stream and to the lungs and heart. On top of that he should of been monitoring the patient for at least 4 days before releasing from hospital.
Entirely guichets fault.

Just stating a fact here that Guichet does not like to prescribe blood thinners like Heparin post surgery. He failed compliance at Princess Grace Hospital in 2017 for this very reason. If you have had an invasive surgery like this, you'd usually be asked to inject yourself with Heparin daily after your surgery. We all were NEVER prescribed that. Instead, Guichet believes that taking a lot of aspirin is sufficient, and aspirin tends to slow bone healing!

When I had my 4th surgery at the NHS (after 3 with Guichet), I was really surprised at the day & night difference in treatment and prescriptions.  Firstly, they prescribed Heparin for me to inject myself to prevent blood clots (it's a painful long needle that needs to be injected into your stomach). Secondly, they gave me adequate painkillers that I did not suffer at all unlike my 3 surgeries with Guichet. For the first time, I realized that it's possible to recover from surgery without protracted excruciating pain.

And one of my classmates in 2017 ended up at the ICU with embolism . Just some facts for you to look out for, during your own post-surgery care. So yes, this is a very risky and invasive surgery that nobody should be sold or consider lightly but there ARE also a myriad of precautions that your choice of doctor can mitigate and keep you safe!

All the best!

[TinyTL]

wow.. there was a guichet patient who died of fat embolism i think.
it was on the news. Jezebel




here i found it

https://jezebel.com/stories-about-my-brother-1835651181

[E Z]

This doctor makes me sick. Absolute incompetency. I haven’t read the entire thread, but this guy should be avoided at all costs.

[TemakiSushi]

Does anyone have any data on how frequently embolism occurs?
I know of one case with Paley, which he rectified immediately, and now two with Guichet.
I'm planning on going with Giotikas ,he seems competent; however, what sort of things should I enquire about to ensure risks are minimised?

Paley talks about the rate on his conference video.
It’s around 4%
It’s quite high
There was a death incidence for blood clot post surgery in Korea also, this doctor went to jail I heard
Giotikas mainly lives in UK leaving patients behind in Greece, that’s lacking moral

[IwannaBeTaller]

Paley talks about the rate on his conference video.
It’s around 4%
It’s quite high
There was a death incidence for blood clot post surgery in Korea also, this doctor went to jail I heard
Giotikas mainly lives in UK leaving patients behind in Greece, that’s lacking moral

Please illustrate further how Giotikas is "lacking moral" by "leaving patients behind in Greece".

[Rectifying_Genetics]

Hey

Because TemakiSushi has one doctor in mind, because of this he is toxic about all other doctors to make himself feel better.

In response to

Giotikas mainly lives in UK leaving patients behind in Greece, that’s lacking moral

Giotikas doesn't mainly live in the UK, he is a consultant in London 2 days a weeks and the rest of the time he works and has a family in Athens. Last time I checked 2 (days in London) / 7 (days in a week) * 100 = 28.6%. Pretty sure 28% doesn't count as "mainly"..................

Thanks

RG

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Here is a very good book on IM nails albeit published in 2006 in collaboration with many doctors.
https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/3-540-32345-7

Chapter 4.13 - CALLUS DISTRACTION WIHT THE ALBIZZIA NAIL
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/3-540-32345-7_21

It basically states that the Guichet nail can runaway (nor stop or reverse). Hence, 'To prevent overdistraction, the lengthening mechanism should be activated repeatedly prior to nail insertion until the distraction distance remains in the system.'

It simply translates to the logic that if I had set out a 7cm goal, Guichet should have pre-clicked his nail by 3cm to ensure only a maximum 7cm maximum distraction is left (the nails are 10cm max) before inserting into my femur. Which he never did of course.

I believe another reason why doctors would take this risk is because patients do return after successfully completing their lengthening, to perform another osteotomy to lengthen to the maximum 10cm. Hence, these doctors make double the fees on the same nail.

Fun stuff!  But an educational read.

[TemakiSushi]

Please illustrate further how Giotikas is "lacking moral" by "leaving patients behind in Greece".

It’s written in this forum:
2.   Dr. Giotikas lives in the UK mostly,

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=9370.msg167659#msg167659

It seems at least at one point he was out of the country quite often
I never heard of any CLL doctor who is out of the country on a weekly basis
Especially with external patients, there are many risks and doctor should stay close to patients most of the time
Those doctors who let patients with external travel to home country are also quite irresponsible

[TemakiSushi]

Hey

Because TemakiSushi has one doctor in mind, because of this he is toxic about all other doctors to make himself feel better.

In response to
Giotikas doesn't mainly live in the UK, he is a consultant in London 2 days a weeks and the rest of the time he works and has a family in Athens. Last time I checked 2 (days in London) / 7 (days in a week) * 100 = 28.6%. Pretty sure 28% doesn't count as "mainly"..................

Thanks

RG

I keep pointing out the risks and problems so that those doctors will provide better service and do proper and safer jobs
Also to put red signs on the traps so that uninformed patients will not jump into tragedies

I don’t understand why so many future patients of Giotikas are so sensitive to those facts being revealed

[daikioni]

Quote from: TemakiSushi on November 29, 2019, 05:40:53 PM
It’s written in this forum:
2.   Dr. Giotikas lives in the UK mostly,
this is Great123 answer:
Dr. Giotikas was there at crucial times. I could call him or text him any time. When it was urgent he responded the same day. Most of the time I got an answer the next day. His co worker Dr. Giannakos who is in Greece was there all the time. They took turns every two weeks when X-rays had to be made. I can assure you that you won't have that direct contact with most German doctors. But sure I can understand why you think that it's better when a doctor is there all the time.

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

It’s written in this forum:
2.   Dr. Giotikas lives in the UK mostly,

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=9370.msg167659#msg167659

It seems at least at one point he was out of the country quite often
I never heard of any CLL doctor who is out of the country on a weekly basis
Especially with external patients, there are many risks and doctor should stay close to patients most of the time
Those doctors who let patients with external travel to home country are also quite irresponsible

Guichet is out of the country on a weekly basis between Milan and London. I would say that any doctor who fleets between several countries should be avoided at all costs because they are transient for many other reasons too. And everytime I had an emergency, Guichet would always be traveling albeit 'always available' on text/phone. It's not the same thing!

Over these last 3.5 years, I have been in touch with hundreds of patients and I can tell all of you, ALL cosmetic lengthening doctors have their literal skeletons in the closets, because this field is unregulated and nascent.

So, always bear in mind that you should discount the hard sell, do your own research and you are really dealing with the least of evils in your choice of doctors. Many a patient has contacted me in pure disbelief when their doctors completely change from the charming avuncular gentleman to one who is simply trying to shove them in a closet and abandon them in their time of need.

Remember that in many countries, the moment your lengthening process is messed up, few to NO doctors public or private will be willing to touch you. Hence, more adverse selection here for victims as most will be held hostage and extorted by their very own perpetrators, for years.

So don't kid yourself.  I'm FOR cosmetic leg lengthening, but with a lot of thought and consideration like time factor, financial abilities, support, research etc. 

You don't want to end up like me.

[TemakiSushi]

OMG some doctors may have learned it from Guichet to fly away from patients on a weekly basis

[TemakiSushi]

Also I am more than welcome to receive any negative information of Donghoon
I’ve been looking for that for a long time now
I will love it 
BTW my information written on the forum is less than 10% of my research done behind the forum
If I get anything concrete against Donghoon I will drop CLL for sure
I still have time until my tibia surgery date
To me any doctor who goes over 5 % complications rate is not acceptable
I can’t find any doctor who meets this criteria for my tibias other than Donghoon
ANYONE please teach me which doctor can pass my test

[BetzLandLiberator]

Over these last 3.5 years, I have been in touch with hundreds of patients and I can tell all of you, ALL cosmetic lengthening doctors have their literal skeletons in the closets, because this field is unregulated and nascent.

Interesting. As far as I know, we don't have any public bad case from the main Precice/Stryde doctors in the US yet. Or am I wrong?

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Interesting. As far as I know, we don't have any public bad case from the main Precice/Stryde doctors in the US yet. Or am I wrong?

Yup, there are     The common problem is patients realize they become victims too late: when they're terrified of their own doctors, get contradictory advice, petrified into doing nothing/complacency and even suffer from stockholm syndrome.

Remember that only a very small percentage of foolhardy or courageous patients actually post their bad experiences here. Imagine if your lengthening goes wrong and other doctors wouldn't touch you with a 10-foot pole, the last thing you'd ever do is post anything negative about your own doctor when you need him the most. And this is when the tables are turned and you are literally stuck between a rock and a very hard place. There is very little recourse. Even sympathy is hard to come by, people who do not understand your decision simply dismiss you as crazy and probably very deserving of comeuppance for your vanity and waste of financial resources.

It is insidious and unfortunately, actual data of real victims are never tabulated officially and transparently. And as many have expressed to me, the disappointment lie beyond physical damage, it completely drains us of our trust in humanity. And that's what scars and traumatizes us most. Our trust and belief systems are essentially violated, and we're left with no voice.

If I had all the money in the world, I would set up a financing company to make cosmetic leg lengthening accessible to the general public because we all realize that short stature neurosis is something that plagued us since puberty (which is usually more than half of our lifetimes). We are the first to admit that it is our head that needs fixing first and foremost.

However, if there were transparent systems in place, widespread application, proper reviews and prerequisites of safety measures as part of the covenants of a financing package, then this procedure would not have to be cloaked in so much controversy. CLL is essentially at the same sensational stage and misguided taboo of breast implant surgeries in the 70s and 80s.

However, orthopaedists have been successfully lengthening limbs non-cosmetically since the 70s with external fixators. So safety methods have been established. It is the rarity and high cost of cosmetic limb lengthening that is corrupting the few players willing to do it, in this industry. Money leads to greed inevitably. And every leg lengthening candidate is a proverbial sitting duck and golden goose for many unscrupulous doctors.

Because imagine the potential each lengthening candidate has when not impeded by their perceived short stature neurosis? I must say, lives are changed usually for the better, forever. Then literally, the stars are within your 'reach'.

[TemakiSushi]

Interesting. As far as I know, we don't have any public bad case from the main Precice/Stryde doctors in the US yet. Or am I wrong?

It seems DIFM got nonunion, his bone was not fused after 2 years

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2165.msg34650#msg34650

Maybe OYG got X leg? I can’t find inputs regarding xleg after that poolside video



Also
I dropped Paley from choice due to this information:

BD Counseling with Paley;

I've read reported studies of over 70% persistent/permanent knee pain in patients after insertion of the IM nail into their tibias.  Have you seen this with your patients?

No, I have never seen close to that figure with my patients.  Probably less than 10% have this issue.  Fellow nods and adds that he's only seen it in less than 10-15% of his patients from their case studies.  What causes it? That's the thing, no one knows what causes it.  My decreased rates for persistent knee pain could be coming from from the way I insert the nails into the tibiae, which is higher up the patellar starts talking with a lot of scientific terminology with his Fellow that I couldn't quite follow.

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=237.msg6876#msg6876

Says less than 10% rate of persistent knee pain and his fellow less than 10 to 15 %
This is probably more than 5%

This does not meet my criteria

[TemakiSushi]

This Stockholm syndrome seems to occur even among some prospective patients, not being able to accept negative information of the doctor they choose

[Great321]

It’s written in this forum:
2.   Dr. Giotikas lives in the UK mostly,

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=9370.msg167659#msg167659

This was actually just an assumption of me. I'm sorry. As Jolien said, if you're looking for facts, don't necessarily rely on this forum only. I would suggest those interested to just e-mail Dr. Giotikas about your concerns.

[IwannaBeTaller]

It’s written in this forum:
2.   Dr. Giotikas lives in the UK mostly,

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=9370.msg167659#msg167659

It seems at least at one point he was out of the country quite often
I never heard of any CLL doctor who is out of the country on a weekly basis
Especially with external patients, there are many risks and doctor should stay close to patients most of the time
Those doctors who let patients with external travel to home country are also quite irresponsible

This is a valid point to consider when it comes to choosing him as a surgeon, but I wouldn't call it immoral unless he omits this fact during the pre-surgery consultation. If a doctor openly says he travels often, it's not an immoral act.

[IwannaBeTaller]

However, if there were transparent systems in place, widespread application, proper reviews and prerequisites of safety measures as part of the covenants of a financing package, then this procedure would not have to be cloaked in so much controversy. CLL is essentially at the same sensational stage and misguided taboo of breast implant surgeries in the 70s and 80s.

So I guess, Unicorn, if a young person, male or female, desperately wants to get taller in our current day and age, their best bet would be to play for time and hope that either the industry standards drastically improve or new, safer technologies come up? Or would you advise to try to forget about the dream of being taller altogether?

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

So I guess, Unicorn, if a young person, male or female, desperately wants to get taller in our current day and age, their best bet would be to play for time and hope that either the industry standards drastically improve or new, safer technologies come up? Or would you advise to try to forget about the dream of being taller altogether?

I do believe that we do have adequate technology today, and if coupled with scrupulous doctors and wide awareness of the full risks and process, CLL can be achieved safely in this present day.

The issue is there is a general lack of knowledge, general information, regulation and sometimes doctor integrity, to render CLL safe for all candidates.

It is still very hit and miss.

[Rectifying_Genetics]

Hey team,

Just to confirm

This was actually just an assumption of me. I'm sorry. As Jolien said, if you're looking for facts, don't necessarily rely on this forum only. I would suggest those interested to just e-mail Dr. Giotikas about your concerns.

and to confirm my point

Giotikas doesn't mainly live in the UK, he is a consultant in London 2 days a weeks and the rest of the time he works and has a family in Athens.

This is 100% factual I literally had the discussion with him a couple of weeks ago, also I live in London so actually him being here 2 days a weeks is kind of ideal for me (in terms of doing follow-up after lengthening).

and finally , I'm not on this forum to say any doctor is better than another and most defiantly not before actually having surgery. But I would like to address one thing.

This Stockholm syndrome seems to occur even among some prospective patients, not being able to accept negative information of the doctor they choose

Stockholm syndrome would require a person to be a victim so it makes little sense, but either way I get your point. But please take a moment to see you are also doing the same thing, I can you are vaguely backing up your trust in Dr Lee saying you can't find many bad cases, but let's be honest as Unicorn said the vast majority of patients never post a word on this forum.

Thanks

RG

[Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo]

Hey team,

Just to confirm

and to confirm my point

This is 100% factual I literally had the discussion with him a couple of weeks ago, also I live in London so actually him being here 2 days a weeks is kind of ideal for me (in terms of doing follow-up after lengthening).

and finally , I'm not on this forum to say any doctor is better than another and most defiantly not before actually having surgery. But I would like to address one thing.

Stockholm syndrome would require a person to be a victim so it makes little sense, but either way I get your point. But please take a moment to see you are also doing the same thing, I can you are vaguely backing up your trust in Dr Lee saying you can't find many bad cases, but let's be honest as Unicorn said the vast majority of patients never post a word on this forum.

Thanks

RG

Maybe more appropriate to start a GIOTIKAS thread for your discussions?

[Rectifying_Genetics]

Hey Unicorn,

I respectfully disagree.

I didn't start this topic, but I do feel incorrect information should be corrected at source (in this thread).

Thanks

RG

[PAGrb490]

Please update us on how you are doing .....

[TemakiSushi]

This was actually just an assumption of me. I'm sorry. As Jolien said, if you're looking for facts, don't necessarily rely on this forum only. I would suggest those interested to just e-mail Dr. Giotikas about your concerns.

Ive wrote I’ve done research behind this forum
Still I think he’s lacking morals

[Ghostfish]

Hi Unicorn
By the way, how have you been doing recently?  Have you been able to recover?  When I read your post of so much complications many years ago, it was truly heartbreaking and shocking.  I really hope you to recover to a normal life as soon as possible and to enjoy happy life you deserve.  Thank you for sharking your thoughts and experiences!!

[dreamingtall]

Ive wrote I’ve done research behind this forum
Still I think he’s lacking morals

If anyone hasn't come to the conclusion, TemakiSushi, has an agenda to crap all over Dr. Giotikas. Why are you pissing all over the best price we've seen with an accredited respectable surgeon!!??? Demand has finally met Supply so why don't you go do your surgery with Dr. Lee Donghoon (who you probably work for) and let everyone have informative objective dialogue.

Someone can get 3inches for under 50k on the surgery price. That is a big deal considering alot of us have grown up on the premise that it CLL is going to be 100k or vietnam/russia. You are a Negative Nancy and I haven't heard one case of Giotikas messing someone up that didn't have a serious error in judgement.

[Andy]

If anyone hasn't come to the conclusion, TemakiSushi, has an agenda to crap all over Dr. Giotikas. Why are you pissing all over the best price we've seen with an accredited respectable surgeon!!??? Demand has finally met Supply so why don't you go do your surgery with Dr. Lee Donghoon (who you probably work for) and let everyone have informative objective dialogue.

Given that Dr Giotikas has some strict criteria for selecting his patients, I seriously suspect that Temaki was rejected by Giotikas for some reason (like BDD or neurosis or something) and he is now trying to get revenge on him. Ι can't really think of any other explanation for his obsession.