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[Jim_dabarber]

Lmfao

This reads like something a delusional teenager who understands nothing whatsoever about attraction would say. It's surreal to see something so dumb being said unironically. It's like something off a Facebook status.


Wow, 35 women?! Amazing! You're a complete slayer.

So what are you doing on this forum?

Oh, right. Your 5'3" wife towers you in heels and you're insecure about it.

Whoops. Guess not even sxx with "35+ fine ass woman" [sic] makes you immune to height neurosis, huh?

I'm here because I want to be here. This is a forum for limb lengthening, and I believe it could grow into a large community of short people who want to be taller and are willing to come together as a group so we can support research for new, safer procedures for height increase that don't involve barbaric, athletically crippling distraction osteogenesis. I don't believe we are "50+ years away" from such procedures as Body Builder and some other posters have mentioned in the past, especially given the recent advances in induced pluripotent stem cell production, 3-D bioidentical bone implants, etc.

Even if I didn't have any reason to be here, I don't need your permission to be on this forum, or to be anywhere at all. You're not a mod here, so you don't have the right to tell me otherwise.

I'm not already 5'7", nor do the unsubstantiated claims of a borderline illiterate like you make me "butthurt".

So in other words your short and are praying that a “new procedure” to grow taller pops up. Keep waiting buddy. Meanwhile ill be growing while your on your labtop trying to bully people lol

[extremis]

It didn't say it was a psychological illness. I said it was a psychological problem, as it brings them distress. They're distressed for not being a certain height, despite not suffering any discrimination in their daily or dating lives. That's why I characterized it as psychological and a problem.

Also, there are definitely diminishing returns to things like building muscle and being tall. At some point, you're just not netting any social gains by adding more of it - you might even go into the negatives for something like bodybuilding, as deep appreciation for the top BBers is generally limited to that niche; the majority of women don't find guys who are too huge to be more attractive.

"Diminishing returns" in terms of their ability to attract the opposite sex, sure. But most of the top bodybuilders, models, businessmen, etc don't want to be at the top to attract women. They do it because they want to be better than all the other bodybuilders, models, businessmen, and so on.

Similarly, it's possible that some of these tall people who want this surgery want it because they want to be taller than everyone else. Whether that's a "problem" or not isn't for anyone else to decide. It's their body and their life.

I understand where you are coming from because I hate this in other online forums. However, these forums have an off-topic section and I tend to limit my posts like that to this section. Also, regarding possible alternatives to CLL, you should help promote these ideas if you think they merit funding. I had never heard of these two names before reading your post today.

Additionally, please try to understand the other side. Posting all the scientific research that shows how much it sucks being short can be just seen as circlejerking on how much it sucks being short, on a forum where everyone is fully aware of that. I do believe I have illustrated in the past viable, alternative ways for men of shorter stature to find partners (not supermodels) and whatnot. I don't see it as virtue signaling / coping delusions but as just showing it's not all hopeless. Some here are a decade or more away from really doing a surgery like this, and it's not impossible to live without it.

Regarding my posting scientific research on heightism, etc:

As you're probably noticed, I have never, nor will I ever, randomly create doom-and-gloom threads whose sole purpose it is to further damage the self-esteem of the posters here (I haven't made any threads going "look look everyone! look at this new study that proves how hopeless it is for you because you're short!"). My intention isn't to "kick people while they're down" or "drag them down further".

When I post this stuff, it's ALWAYS in response to someone making some positivist claim about how short men can still attract "plenty" of women, how it's "not so bad when you really think about it", basically all sorts of feel-good platitudinous claims that (as far as I've seen) tend to be embellished, no doubt in an attempt to console the depressed and potentially suicidal members the posts are aimed at.

It's not that I "don't understand" the other side. I know what you're trying to do, and I know that you are probably trying to help by doing it. The problem is that what you're doing will ultimately have the opposite effect.

Suppose I stopped debunking the positivity posts, or even joined in and started making posts like those too, talking about how it's not so bad, how things can be great as a short man, you can have plenty of women, post lots of staged videos where short men kiss and fondle paid actresses, and so on. Lots of short guys see these posts and start to feel better. They start to internalize these feel-good delusions, and kind of start to forget about their problems. Hey, maybe being short isn't so bad after all.

When they get off their computer and go back to the real world, they're still short. Heightism hasn't gone away. People are still going to treat them the exact same way they were before. They're still gonna get made fun of by their peers, passed over for promotions at work, rejected by women, etc. Nothing has changed except their "mentality". They're still being discriminated against and treated like sh*t because of their height, and it still makes them miserable. The only difference is that now, they'll try to ignore it or just endure it and keep living their lives in spite of it, resigning themselves to a mediocre or poor quality of life.

Their feel-good delusions don't match their real-life experiences, which will result in cognitive dissonance. After a while, no matter how brainwashed they are, they won't be able to cope anymore, and they'll end up depressed again, and then they'll end up back on this forum, and we're back to square one.

How do I know this? Because this is how real-life """therapy""" works. I know that because I've been through it before. Therapy, especially the increasingly popular "cognitive-behavioral" therapy that is in vogue nowadays, is all about brainwashing the patient with positive affirmations and hoping that these "stick", allowing the patient to cope with whatever they're unhappy with just enough so that they can be a "well-adjusted person", which basically just means they're mentally stable enough to work a 9-to-5 job and take care of themselves rather than applying for disability and living on welfare.

"Therapy" is a lifelong thing. Once you've completed a 6 or so month long "course" of therapy with a mental health professional and they deem you to be "rehabilitated", you'll get sent on your way with a request to "check back" in around 3 or so months to "touch base". What this means is they need to check whether your indoctrination is still holding strong or if you need some more, because psychologists are well aware that problems "treated" by therapy recur in virtually every case.

This is what will happen if we start circlejerking and trying to console each other. We'll brainwash each other into thinking heightism's not so bad, until we go out there and see that yes, it kind of IS that bad, and then we end up back here again, where we'll once again get brainwashed, and the cycle continues in that way.

Ultimately, we accomplish absolutely nothing other than waste each other's time - time that we'll never be able to get back, that could've been used working together towards an actual SOLUTION that would solve the problem once and for all.

Regarding the alternatives to CLL:

I've been planning to do just that. I've been compiling research and information I've seen about them from other sites and their own sites, though I've faced some difficulty (Dr. Teplyashin is Russian, and his site is in Russian). Once I've got all this stuff prepared, I will post about them.

So in other words your short and are praying that a “new procedure” to grow taller pops up. Keep waiting buddy. Meanwhile ill be growing while your on your labtop trying to bully people lol

Do yourself a favor and work through some 3rd grade grammar and spelling books when you're in the recovery phase. You have the writing ability of a 9 year old, and it's only going to be more embarrassing once you're taller.

[myloginacct]

Okay, I understand a lot more where you are coming from now.

Just two things:

Whether that's a "problem" or not isn't for anyone else to decide. It's their body and their life.

The problem that I meant was in the pain they feel, not the decisions they want to make as adults. It generally originates in their heads in these cases (as it's harder to experience negative heightism at above average heights) and not from daily life, so a psychological origin, and a problem because of the distress it brings. How they want approach and solve that is entirely their own choice.

I've been planning to do just that. I've been compiling research and information I've seen about them from other sites and their own sites, though I've faced some difficulty (Dr. Teplyashin is Russian, and his site is in Russian). Once I've got all this stuff prepared, I will post about them.

We have some Russian users here. They may be willing to help as it is in the interest of all of us.

[Zeo]

Ok so hypothetically lets say your right extremis

So instead of people "lying" to themselves and saying "lifes not that bad" and going out trying to make the best of it, they should be honest and face reality. Tell themselves it sucks being short and look at the statistics and examples and then feel bad. Go through life thinking that they will always be unemployed, a virgin and be constantly bullied because they are short? (And what if now he has cognitive dissonance because maybe his reality of being short doesn't match the negative "harsh reality" picture you painted? What if every short mans life experience isn't the same?)

Like what's the end game here for the short guy?

I mean he either gets LL, stays miserable (and now with a LOT less control over his life), or waits for a non-cll height increase method?
What does he do?

[extremis]

The problem that I meant was in the pain they feel, not the decisions they want to make as adults. It generally originates in their heads in these cases (as it's harder to experience negative heightism at above average heights) and not from daily life, so a psychological origin, and a problem because of the distress it brings. How they want approach and solve that is entirely their own choice.

We have some Russian users here. They may be willing to help as it is in the interest of all of us.

Excellent. That'll be a great help when the time comes.

Ok so hypothetically lets say your right extremis

So instead of people "lying" to themselves and saying "lifes not that bad" and going out trying to make the best of it, they should be honest and face reality. Tell themselves it sucks being short and look at the statistics and examples and then feel bad. Go through life thinking that they will always be unemployed, a virgin and be constantly bullied because they are short? (And what if now he has cognitive dissonance because maybe his reality of being short doesn't match the negative "harsh reality" picture you painted? What if every short mans life experience isn't the same?)

The part in bold accurately represents my point of view IF it's edited to read as follows

So instead of people "lying" to themselves and saying "lifes not that bad" and going out trying to make the best of it, they should be honest, face reality, and start working towards a permanent solution, which in this case means increasing their height.

The rest of this paragraph feels like a strawman. I never said short men would go through life being "unemployed, a virgin, and constantly bullied". I said that statistically speaking, they're more likely to be passed over for jobs or promotions, much less likely to be able to find a sexual/romantic partner (particularly who is genuinely physically attracted to them i.e. not just with them for money, help with raising children, status, etc), and more likely to be discriminated against/bullied, especially by people taller than them.

All the anecdotal and scientific evidence that's available substantiates these views, as I've demonstrated by posting the relevant studies/videos.

As for your comment about "cognitive dissonance": I don't think you understand what the term means. For your convenience, here's a definition:

In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort (psychological stress) experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. The occurrence of cognitive dissonance is a consequence of a person performing an action that contradicts personal beliefs, ideals, and values; and also occurs when confronted with new information that contradicts said beliefs, ideals, and values.[1][2]

In the example I gave, if the hypothetical short man has convinced himself that "being short isn't so bad" and then goes out into the world and has his belief validated (it turns out to be true), he wouldn't experience cognitive dissonance. If, however, he went out into the world and was treated in a way that is NOT consistent with his beliefs (i.e. bullied, rejected by women, passed over for promotions, so on), then he would experience cognitive dissonance.

Anyhow, to respond to your rhetorical question:

Is it possible that not every short man's life experience is negative, and that there are some short men whose lives aren't blighted by heightism? Absolutely.

Is it likely that these short men are the ones who end up on forums like this one? Absolutely not.

Like what's the end game here for the short guy?

I mean he either gets LL, stays miserable (and now with a LOT less control over his life), or waits for a non-cll height increase method?
What does he do?

The "end game" is whatever he chooses it to be. As you point out, he has choices.

1.) Get LL, which is risky, invasive, will athletically cripple him for life, and involves a long recovery process. For a lot of people, these requirements are prohibitive because they can't afford it, or have athletic aspirations, or simply don't want to take the risk of developing a fat embolism and dying.

2.) Do nothing and stay miserable. I surmise that by "a LOT less control over his life", you mean his positivist delusions having been shattered and being forced to face a cruel, harsh, depressing reality. In that case, yes, that is the case.

3.) "Wait" for a non-CLL height increase method.

Note that I don't recommend "waiting" for a non-CLL height increase method. I recommend working together with other unhappy short men to bring it about.

For the overwhelming majority of short men, their stature is something that makes them deeply unhappy, largely due to the way people perceive and treat them (due to their stature). For the overwhelming majority of short men, their height is something they would change in a heartbeat if there was a safe, non-invasive, non-crippling procedure available to do so.

Therefore, for the overwhelming majority of men, the "end game", at least as far as their immediate quality of life is concerned, would be to stop being short (IF a procedure like the one I described above existed).

If you want an example of what the "end game" for short men would be like if such procedures were being worked on, look at the male pattern baldness community. They're still deeply troubled by their problem, but they work towards solutions every day. People like swisstemples on Reddit develop ingenious techniques for stopping and even slightly reversing hair loss. The male pattern baldness community is rife with hope and perseverance, even though its members are often depressed or unhappy with their present state.

It's VERY rare for a member of the MPB community to just stop trying to fix their problem and delude themselves into thinking everything will be okay if they keep balding despite them KNOWING they're deeply unhappy about it.

[Zeo]

and start working towards a permanent solution, which in this case means increasing their height.

That's literally what everyone here is doing. The permanent solution for us is CLL. Most posters here, not you apparently, is here because they wish to increase their height through CLL. We ALL know that there is benefits to being taller. That's why we're here. No one's saying "just be yourself" and forget about getting taller. We have our solution, for most of us we just have to save money for a few years.

Why the hell would we choose to be miserable and dwell on negativities while we save money/line up logistics to become taller? Especially because for a lot of us, it's not that bad, we just want to become taller. We will have the same outcome except one will be optimistic and one will be miserable.

Just because we want to have LL it doesn't mean we have a "cruel, harsh, depressing reality", maybe thats the case for you. You don't have to be depressed to get the LL, you just have to want the height more than the money/time.

and what I was saying in my example is that I would have cognitive dissonance if I convinced myself that "being short is really really bad", and I went out into my reality and see that it was actually pretty decent (will get even better with LL, which is why we are here).

Idk it just sounds like your argument is: "Everyone should keep doing what you're doing (trying to increase our height), but be sad about it"

[Zeo]

I made a double post on accident

[extremis]

That's literally what everyone here is doing. The permanent solution for us is CLL. Most posters here, not you apparently, is here because they wish to increase their height through CLL. We ALL know that there is benefits to being taller. That's why we're here. No one's saying "just be yourself" and forget about getting taller. We have our solution, for most of us we just have to save money for a few years.

It's funny how in the paragraph following this one in your post, you criticize me for generalizing many posters on this board (at least based on the content of their posts), they DO face a cruel, harsh and depressing reality, but you're perfectly okay with making the generalized claim that "the permanent solution for us is CLL".

To take a page out of your own book: Maybe that's the case for you.

Most posters here "wish to increase their height through CLL" because it's the only method available to do it. Most posters here would also prefer not to have to undergo a barbaric, crippling surgery with not-insignificant risks for permanent complications.

It's great that there are a lot of CLL success stories, but then there are stories like unicorn's or other patients who suffered serious complications that still persist to this day. Even a lot of the people who are "satisfied" with their CLL results have persistent complications (hampered athleticism, joint pains, reduced range of motion, stiffness, etc) that they try not to make a big deal out of because they basically feel the benefits of their new height outweigh the drawbacks.

What I'm saying is we shouldn't be satisfied with CLL. It's great that it exists and it's certainly better than nothing, but the fact is it's a 30+ year old surgery that has basically hit the cap in terms of how advanced it's going to get. At the end of the day, no matter what new devices come out (PRECISE 3, SYNOSTE or whatever), the whole thing comes down to cutting a bone and slowly pulling it apart.

If we had a more advanced and sophisticated procedure that was safer, less invasive, and didn't involve crippling yourself athletically for life or risking other permanent complications, nobody would look twice at CLL. What I'm arguing is that we're maybe 7 years away from such a procedure (science, especially stem cell research, has come a VERY long way in the last 3 years) if we all come together to support the scientists researching the relevant fields of study (epiphyseal plate regeneration, etc), and that it would benefit us all to do so because we'd all be able to partake in the newer procedure(s).

Why the hell would we choose to be miserable and dwell on negativities while we save money/line up logistics to become taller? Especially because for a lot of us, it's not that bad, we just want to become taller. We will have the same outcome except one will be optimistic and one will be miserable.

Just because we want to have LL it doesn't mean we have a "cruel, harsh, depressing reality", maybe thats the case for you. You don't have to be depressed to get the LL, you just have to want the height more than the money/time.

I've met many more short men in my life who want CLL because their reality is "cruel, harsh, and depressing" than those who are getting it because it's just "a little bad". Even on this very forum and makemetaller, I've seen more depressed posters, posters whose lives have been ruined by heightism, and so on than I have posters like you.

Don't be a hypocrite.

and what I was saying in my example is that I would have cognitive dissonance if I convinced myself that "being short is really really bad", and I went out into my reality and see that it was actually pretty decent (will get even better with LL, which is why we are here).

The problem here is that your spin on my original analogy doesn't make sense from a logical perspective.

In my example, the person who gets convinced by positivity-posters that "being short isn't so bad" and then goes back into the outside world and suffers cognitive dissonance resulting from people's continued discrimination against him because of his short stature had already had negative social experiences because of his stature to begin with.

That's why they ended up on this forum to begin with. Think about it. Cosmetic limb lengthening surgery is an extremely obscure procedure. The average person on the street doesn't even know that this surgery exists. Would a short man who was happy or satisfied with his stature, who wasn't discriminated against or mistreated because of it, end up desperately and obsessively scouring the internet for ways to get taller to the point that they eventually find small, niche forums like this dedicated to an obscure, barbaric, expensive and risky surgery?

You don't really think that makes sense, do you?

In your example, you say that you "would have cognitive dissonance if you convinced yourself that 'being short is really bad' and then went out into reality and see that it was actually pretty decent'". Well, obviously, you had already been "out into reality" prior to ever discovering this forum (you didn't spend every single second of your life sitting at your PC in your room reading this forum - you've BEEN in the outside world before), so your exposure to reality after "convincing yourself that 'being short is really bad'" wouldn't be the first.

I said earlier that your version of the analogy doesn't make logical sense. I'll explain why here.

In this hypothetical scenario, we have 2 possibilities as to your life experience prior to arriving on this forum, and indeed prior to "convincing yourself that 'being short was really really bad'":

1) Prior to "convincing yourself that 'being short is really really bad'", you had several experiences with heightism and height discrimination (see examples of heightism already given in other posts). In that case, those experiences must have been quite egregious, since they drove you to "convince yourself that 'being short is really really bad'". That being the case, it is not likely that after being exposed to this forum and having your belief affirmed/supported by the "negative" (realist) posts on this board and returning to reality, you would somehow discover that being short is "actually pretty decent". After all, the thing that drove you to convince yourself that being short was 'really really bad' was the height discrimination you faced "out in your reality" to begin with.

So we have a contradiction.

2) Prior to 'convincing yourself that being short is really bad', you had never had any experience with heightism. In this case, it doesn't make sense that you would "convince yourself that 'being short is really really bad'". Why would a person who's had no negative experiences related to their stature come to such a conclusion? Why would they be able to be convinced by random forum posters that it is? This is like saying that you could convince a rich man that 'being rich is really really bad' just by telling him that it is, despite the fact that it doesn't line up with his real-life experiences.

In order for you to become convinced that being short is 'really really bad', there must be some basis for it in your life experiences. People don't just randomly start to hate a specific feature of themselves for no reason. This doesn't make sense.

So we again have a contradiction.

Idk it just sounds like your argument is: "Everyone should keep doing what you're doing (trying to increase our height), but be sad about it"

No. My argument is "everyone shouldd keep trying to increase their height without trying to delude themselves into thinking they're 'okay being short', or that 'being short isn't so bad', or any of the other dozens of platitudes that get repeated by the positivity posters."

In other words, be realists, not optimists. Why? Because optimism leads to unrealistic expectations, which leads to delusions, which results in what I explained to myloginacct. You end up in an endless cycle of "positivity" delusions that will get torn down when you go out into the real world.

How do I know they'll get torn down? The answer is I don't know for sure (I am not omniscient), but I can reasonably assert it because as I've repeated MULTIPLE times on this board, if you somehow find your way to a forum about a grisly, barbaric, crippling, expensive, obscure cosmetic limb lengthening surgery with tons of risks and actually intend to have it performed on you, the overwhelming likelihood is that you've already had extremely bad life experiences related to your stature. People aren't going to treat you differently just because you've changed your mentality when the whole reason they were mistreating you in the first place was not your mentality, but your stature.

Again, just so we're clear: short men who aren't in some way unhappy with their height and/or have not had negative life experiences based on their height do NOT end up on websites with names like "LIMB LENGTHENING FORUM", "MAKE ME TALLER", or any forum whose focus is an extremely painful, risky, barbaric surgery that has the potential to permanently cripple them athletically or even completely. "Normal", "well-adjusted", "happy" people don't know this surgery exists. They don't look for it, they don't sign up on forums to discuss it, they don't plan international trips to get it, they don't sit save up tens of thousands of dollars over the course of years to be able to afford it, they don't analyze their potential proportions before and after the surgery, they don't have anything to do with it.

I don't know how many times I've had to repeat this point. It seems like a lot of people have difficulty understanding it.

[Zeo]

This is the limb lengthening forum, so I think it's ok to generalize that most people are here to get limb lengthening. If you want to discuss the efficacy of LL then that's a different conversation.

"I've met many more short men in my life who want CLL because their reality is "cruel, harsh, and depressing" than those who are getting it because it's just "a little bad". Even on this very forum and makemetaller, I've seen more depressed posters, posters whose lives have been ruined by heightism, and so on than I have posters like you."

Yes I agree with this, but I'm assuming you mean meet through internet than real life. I wish more posters had my mentality, and I'm sure you wish that more posters had your mentality. I guess at the end of the day we're not so different you and I. We're both trying to help short people feel better. But I'm pretty sure that you have much more negative thoughts than me day to day.

And the idea is not to delude yourself into this ignorant positive state where you just ignore everything bad. It's just to not let the negativity control your life.

Idk friend you keep writing these long paragraphs but you're pretty much saying the same thing.

[Zeo]

also Bruce Wayne is an extreme example, no offense to him but he has a lot more problems then his height.

[jexus]

No, you "fked" tons of women you thought were 10/10. Unless you were "fking" actual supermodels (as in, career runway models), you weren't anywhere NEAR the "10/10" range.

I don't know why you would consider this impressive or feel the need to point this out. I'm starting to think there may be truth to the meme that short men view having sxx with tall women as some kind of "achievement", as if it's a challenge.

News flash: A woman who's 178 cm tall is within the upper 1st percentile of female height, which is NOT a good thing in the least in terms of her sxxual attractiveness to the overwhelming majority of men.

Tall women are VERY often insecure about their height just like short men are, though not to the same extent due to the massive amount of validation women get from men and the ease with which they can secure a sxxual partner despite any physical flaw they have (just boot up Tinder or some other dating app).

The point is, having sxx with a tall woman as a short man isn't impressive. Both parties are undesirable to the majority of the opposite sxx. You're not "proving" anything by saying you had sxx with a tall woman. If you approached her, you are probably the first man to do so in a LONG time. Most men wouldn't want anything to do with a woman who would tower them in the 3-4 inch heels women wear on nights out.

http://www.psypost.org/2017/03/personality-traits-no-influence-initial-romantic-attraction-study-finds-48362

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/per.2087/abstract

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40806-017-0092-x


Please present your peer-reviewed behavioral analysis studies demonstrating the importance of """personality""" in attracting women?

Such insecurity,

Why are you so jealous ?

The fact that you live an insecure life with whatever your height does not prove that everyone under 170 is pathetic too.

I fcked a very beautifull girl 10 cm taller than me in a party where everyone was bare feet. That means you can do it. Also I dated a 170 at 168 for 5 months.

Those researches does not mean anything to me, I fked 10/10’s and now I’m dating one. You just go on, be insecure and jerk off all day.

U won’t get well with LL, go to a psycologist.

[Body Builder]

Such insecurity,

Why are you so jealous ?

The fact that you live an insecure life with whatever your height does not prove that everyone under 170 is pathetic too.

I fked a very beautifull girl 10 cm taller than me in a party where everyone was bare feet. That means you can do it. Also I dated a 170 at 168 for 5 months.

Those researches does not mean anything to me, I fked 10/10’s and now I’m dating one. You just go on, be insecure and jerk off all day.

U won’t get well with LL, go to a psycologist.

fking tons of 10/10 woman is possible for a rich, famous and more than average in appearance man.
For NOONE else.

So, an 1.68 guy who is not a millionaire nor famous saying he fked tons of very beautiful women is a joke.
Especially when he is not ok with his life and chooses to do LL. If I had such success I'd never think about LL and the same would have done the 99% of LLers.
You are a sensible man Jexus so please don't exaggerate and write silly things like that.

@extremis:
For the next many years (20+) the one and only way to increase height will be LL.
Research is not even close to make people start growing again (that would also mean maybe the end of geting older etc which is a far reality if even possible) so anyone who wants to get taller has only LL.
But things are not what you describe. If things go well and you have a capable doctor and don't lengthen more than the safe limits your athletic abilities won't be diminished ?they'll be just less than before) and you can live normally with a better body and much better self esteem and social benefits.
And having stryde or any other full weight bearing magnetic internal nail makes LL completely different to what happens now or in the past so things will soon be better than even for future LLers.
So people should stop moaning, yes LL is not easy nor fast and cost a lot of money but it can solve our problem. And thats what it really counts for me.

[myloginacct]

pluripotent stem cell production, 3-D bioidentical bone implants, etc.

What future are you seeing with these technologies?

I often think about alternatives to LL, and, so far, I haven't been able to think of anything that could happen in the next 10 years and also supplant CLL. The future is indeed unpredictable and science can leap exponentially, but I'm speaking generally. I do think all research towards the goal of allowing people to increase their height merits further funding, though.

[jexus]

Adriana Lima dated an average non-famous non-millionaire non-extremely handsome Turkish man, who is 2 cm shorter than her called Metin Hara.

He just writes books and She just liked him.

You are extremely insecure about girls but height is not an excuse for everything.

I did LL because my tibias were too short to my height probably were traumatised because of extreme heavy exercice at very young age. I look more proportionnate now.

I never had any problem with my height. I’m also not a millionaire. I’m just handsome and can talk with girls. I’m also a professional drummer I think that attracts lot of chicks.

Bodybuilder I’m %100 sure you have a chance with almost any girl under 175. The very rare ones that will eliminate you immediately bcause of your height are height obsessed themselves. Higher than 175 in girls is imo not very attractive I find them masculin.

[Body Builder]

Adriana Lima dated an average non-famous non-millionaire non-extremely handsome Turkish man, who is 2 cm shorter than her called Metin Hara.

He just writes books and She just liked him.

You are extremely insecure about girls but height is not an excuse for everything.

I did LL because my tibias were too short to my height probably were traumatised because of extreme heavy exercice at very young age. I look more proportionnate now.

I never had any problem with my height. I’m also not a millionaire. I’m just handsome and can talk with girls. I’m also a professional drummer I think that attracts lot of chicks.

Bodybuilder I’m %100 sure you have a chance with almost any girl under 175. The very rare ones that will eliminate you immediately bcause of your height are height obsessed themselves. Higher than 175 in girls is imo not very attractive I find them masculin.

My experiece says otherwise jexus.
1.74 is not enough for meny eomen regardless of their height. But I don't care. I live my life as good as I can and when time comes a second LL will make me as I imagine myself if things go well.
Lets hope I have the chance to see me at 1.80-81 and feel completely ok and have the successes I hope with the women I want.

[Thatdude950]

#1 You don't actually need to be deluded to have BDD. It's part of the diagnostic criteria, but it's not essential. Even leaving that out, if you are obsessed with your physical appearance to the point that it prevents you from living a normal life and contributing to society, you're sick. I don't know why you're dissapointed with therapy having that outcome as a goal (patient becoming useful and productive). You owe a debt society, society doesn't owe you a thing.

#2 How tall are you?

[extremis]

#1 You don't actually need to be deluded to have BDD. It's part of the diagnostic criteria, but it's not essential. Even leaving that out, if you are obsessed with your physical appearance to the point that it prevents you from living a normal life and contributing to society, you're sick.

I don't actually know if you're addressing me with this post, but given the fact you mention "disappointment" with therapy, I'm going to guess you are.

I don't think anyone would argue that a person who becomes a recluse/shut-in or develops avoidant habits as a result of some physical trait they're unhappy about is mentally healthy. Whether or not this translates into a "body dysmorphia" diagnosis, however, is a different matter altogether.

Unless you're a psychiatrist, you don't have the right or academic acumen to make such an assertion, and you aren't, because if you were, you'd know that online diagnosing is not only unprofessional but inaccurate.

I don't know why you're dissapointed with therapy having that outcome as a goal (patient becoming useful and productive).

Because the patient is an sentient, self aware individual and not a cog in a machine. The goal of """therapy""" of any kind should be to remove the source of suffering so that the patient's quality of life improves, not put a band aid over it so they can cope with it just well enough for them to be "useful and productive".

You owe a debt society, society doesn't owe you a thing.

LMAO

Just from reading this I can tell exactly what kind of person you are. You're wrong. Neither I nor anyone else "owes a debt" to society.

"Society" doesn't get up every morning to work a 10-hour shift (2 hours unpaid prep/transit time, plus an 8-hour shift). "Society" doesn't pay anyone's mortgage, health insurance, food, utilities, luxuries, and so on. "Society" doesn't suffer the effects of discrimination, whether it be based on height, race, looks, or what-have-you.

Individuals do all those things. I don't "owe" society anything. No one does. I've never heard such a ridiculous, asinine, absurd, arrogant, moralizing piece of idiotic rhetoric in all my life. It sounds like the kind of thing some uppity baby boomer know-it-all condescendingly says to young people, or maybe something a communist would say.

In fact, there's a much stronger argument in favor of the idea that "society" owes people something, because "society" is metaphysically dependent on individuals to exist. Individuals can exist without society. The converse does not hold true.

[Zeo]

[Thatdude950]

I don't actually know if you're addressing me with this post, but given the fact you mention "disappointment" with therapy, I'm going to guess you are.

I don't think anyone would argue that a person who becomes a recluse/shut-in or develops avoidant habits as a result of some physical trait they're unhappy about is mentally healthy. Whether or not this translates into a "body dysmorphia" diagnosis, however, is a different matter altogether.

Unless you're a psychiatrist, you don't have the right or academic acumen to make such an assertion, and you aren't, because if you were, you'd know that online diagnosing is not only unprofessional but inaccurate.

You've been attempting to make definitive assertions re: BDD the entire thread bud. At the end of the day we're both just making extrapolations based on the diagnostic criteria. If you're going to claim I'm not qualified, you're right-- but then neither are you.  How about applying the standards you've just set for me to yourself too.

Because the patient is an sentient, self aware individual and not a cog in a machine. The goal of """therapy""" of any kind should be to remove the source of suffering so that the patient's quality of life improves, not put a band aid over it so they can cope with it just well enough for them to be "useful and productive".

More idealism. "should, should, should". At some point you have to look at the world and accept it for what it really is. Your psychiatry is subsidized by society because we hope that unstable people like yourself will eventually become less of a danger to the rest of us, & hopefully one day contribute like most people do. Ending suffering is a very positive side effect, but if that's all we got out of the deal the system would not work. Only your mother loves you unconditionally, & would throw money at you for your sake alone, especially for something like height dysphoria. In fact if your treatment wasn't subsidized, I bet she's the one who paid for it

LMAO

Just from reading this I can tell exactly what kind of person you are. You're wrong. Neither I nor anyone else "owes a debt" to society.

"Society" doesn't get up every morning to work a 10-hour shift (2 hours unpaid prep/transit time, plus an 8-hour shift). "Society" doesn't pay anyone's mortgage, health insurance, food, utilities, luxuries, and so on. "Society" doesn't suffer the effects of discrimination, whether it be based on height, race, looks, or what-have-you.

Individuals do all those things. I don't "owe" society anything. No one does. I've never heard such a ridiculous, asinine, absurd, arrogant, moralizing piece of idiotic rhetoric in all my life. It sounds like the kind of thing some uppity baby boomer know-it-all condescendingly says to young people, or maybe something a communist would say.

In fact, there's a much stronger argument in favor of the idea that "society" owes people something, because "society" is metaphysically dependent on individuals to exist. Individuals can exist without society. The converse does not hold true.

Society's probably too broad, but if your conscience doesn't tell you that you owe your family some kind of debt for keeping you alive & putting up with all your BS as a kid--  you actually are still a little kid. No wonder you're obsessed with how you look despite supposedly being an adult.

[myloginacct]

I think you generally make reasonable posts in other threads, Thatdude, but I think you're off the mark here. I'm guessing it's the effect of being a good height (175cm+) and having lived a mostly normal life with normal parents? Excuse me for assuming if I'm wrong.

Your psychiatry is subsidized by society because we hope that unstable people like yourself will eventually become less of a danger to the rest of us, & hopefully one day contribute like most people do. Ending suffering is a very positive side effect, but if that's all we got out of the deal the system would not work.

What subsidized psychiatry? Most of us outside of Europe had to struggle a lot of years trying to find help and then had to pay out of our pocket for it. Do you mean how government funds research for science?

Society's probably too broad, but if your conscience doesn't tell you that you owe your family some kind of debt for keeping you alive & putting up with all your BS as a kid--  you actually are still a little kid. No wonder you're obsessed with how you look despite supposedly being an adult.

Parents owe a responsibility to their kids for making a conscious decision to put them in this world. Again, I'm guessing you were lucky enough to have had a mostly normal life with caring parents. That's great. That being the case, you'll definitely feel indebted and grateful to them. That's not how anyone who grew up in an abusive household feels.

[KrP1]

5´7 is still short , so you are going to have drawbacks in society .  your height will be a negative aspect of your phisyc .
For most girls 5´7 is not enought  , most girls want average / tall mans , it doesnt matter if the girl is 160cm tall. And the hottest girls are above 5´7 .

[Knik]

5´7 is still short , so you are going to have drawbacks in society .  your height will be a negative aspect of your phisyc .
For most girls 5´7 is not enought  , most girls want average / tall mans , it doesnt matter if the girl is 160cm tall. And the hottest girls are above 5´7 .

No, no and no.
5-7 (170 to 172,5) is rather about average or a little under (5-9 for the USA), even taller than average in many countries (most asian countries, and maybe even some south american countries)

and I think that you care more about height (girls opinion) than girls
but I know also that in some countries like the USA or even China it can become an obsession for some girls. They want a tall guy, doesn't matter if he is beautiful or average looking, thin or muscular, etc they just want a tall guy

it's probably for that reason that female lie about their heights. Especially on dating website. I've registered to look at it : about 50 % of girls were taller than 5-7 and maybe 20-30 % taller than 5-9 in a country where female average is 5-4. And I saw the same in senior websites. And especially into african girls, they were in average 5-9 on their profile.

But I laughed, it's not serious. Like sportsmen height/weight listening, nothing serious.

[CaptainAmerica]

You can live a pretty normal life at 5'7. Not an ideal one, but you can at least get a few dates, get married, get treated normally in a workplace, etc... I know a few 5'7 guys who have no problem doing any of these things. I wouldn't say that really holds true for guys 5'5 and under. I don't know a single guy 5'5 or under who's had a girlfriend or gotten laid here in college, or who gets treated normally at say parties and other social events. Every guy I know shorter than 5'5-5'6 is clearly depressed, very little social life, small presence on social media, play video games all day or lift weights all day etc... Still at 5'7 you're pretty short and girls will still neg you for it, and some other "men" may respect you less. I would say that ends at probably 5'9, 5'10 ideally. But you can still participate in general life at 5'7, you're not completely left out from some things.

Now that isn't to say that at 5'7 you have a nice stack of bargaining chips either. Obviously even if you get into a relationship or manage to secure a managerial position at work, you're going to have a much tougher time maintaining than some moron who's 6'2. But you're not completely disqualified from doing these things, you are still a reasonable size for an adult male, you are at least the same height as the average 5'4 woman in 3 inch heels.

[Body Builder]

At 5.7 you can live normally.
An ugly (not like a monster of course!) woman can live normal too.
But in both cases these people won't have much chances on dating.
So yes they can live normal, but not as happy and ok with themselves like better looking or taller people.

Men less than 5.6 can not even live normal as their heights will be a permanent joke in many instances (like work etc) which won't let them continue their lives normally.

[IwannaBeTaller]

Guess I need to tell my 5'6'' uncle that he can't "live normal", haha. I mean he owns his own house, lives with his girlfriend being together for....15 years?...constantly going skiing and visiting foreign countries.....DJing and partying in his free time. Having quite a lot of friends and being well-respected at work. I need to go and tell him that he's supposed to suffer and be a permanent joke at work! 

[Knik]

at 5-7 you can date, no problem with that.

[Body Builder]

Guess I need to tell my 5'6'' uncle that he can't "live normal", haha. I mean he owns his own house, lives with his girlfriend being together for....15 years?...constantly going skiing and visiting foreign countries.....DJing and partying in his free time. Having quite a lot of friends and being well-respected at work. I need to go and tell him that he's supposed to suffer and be a permanent joke at work! 

If your uncle had more than one gorgeous looking gf each year you could say that what I wrote is false.
Having 1 woman 15 years and a house does not mean that you have a good sexual life nor that you are generally successful.

So stay on point to what I said or just say bs about friends, uncles and all these that have no significance.

Knik, and a fat woman can date. But with much less successes than a good looking one and with of course worse quality on partner's looks on general.
5.7 is not enough for men in west.
Anyone less than 5.10 will face some problems on dating and the less you are thw more problems you face. At 5.7 you are not doomed but still many women will reject you for your height. At even less than that you are doomed, period.

[backrandom]

Reason is NPD and other personality disorders.

[Knik]

If your uncle had more than one gorgeous looking gf each year you could say that what I wrote is false.
Having 1 woman 15 years and a house does not mean that you have a good sxxual life nor that you are generally successful.

So stay on point to what I said or just say bs about friends, uncles and all these that have no significance.

Knik, and a fat woman can date. But with much less successes than a good looking one and with of course worse quality on partner's looks on general.
5.7 is not enough for men in west.
Anyone less than 5.10 will face some problems on dating and the less you are thw more problems you face. At 5.7 you are not doomed but still many women will reject you for your height. At even less than that you are doomed, period.


except if you want to date a tall girl (and still), no it won't be a problem to be 5-8 or 5-9

[IwannaBeTaller]

If your uncle had more than one gorgeous looking gf each year you could say that what I wrote is false.
Having 1 woman 15 years and a house does not mean that you have a good sxxual life nor that you are generally successful.

That's not what you said.

You said a man at that height cannot "live normal" and will be a constant joke by others at his workplace and anywhere else. That is pure BS.

And of course having several short-term relationships instead of one long-term one doesn't guarantee a person is sexually satisfied either.

[Body Builder]

That's not what you said.

You said a man at that height cannot "live normal" and will be a constant joke by others at his workplace and anywhere else. That is pure BS.

And of course having several short-term relationships instead of one long-term one doesn't guarantee a person is sxxually satisfied either.

But it guarantees that you are attractive.
And I said that if you are less than 5.6 (or 5.5 max) you cant live normally.
I doubt if your uncle had a so "happy" life if he was 5.3 for instance.

Knik, many women nowadays are more than 5.7 so at that heights you can't have a large amount of women only because you are not even significantly taller than them.
But even shorter girls like men of average height and more like fat men want fit women. What is attractive is the same for short and tall women too so the more a man is far from average (in height or anything else) the more unattractive he is, to all women.