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[Quincy]

So I just got off a FaceTime session with Guichet, and am quite sure I am going to go through with the surgery, likely this very summer.  The cost isn't an issue, the pain I can handle, and I know I have the discipline to adhere 100% to the pre- and post-op training requirements.  My ONLY, ONLY concern is making a 100% athletic recovery, and I mean 100% — even 99% recovery would be unacceptable to me (this is why I have decided to go with Guichet -- because of his emphasis on full recovery through a rigorous training regimen.)

Now, before you shoot my goal down as unrealistic, know this:

1) I am only lengthening 5cm, and not a mm more.  Again, full recovery is my only concern, so I am being very conservative.  Also, because I am already 176 cm tall, there isn't really a need for me to be greedy (Please don't lecture me about how I'm already "tall enough".  That's subjective.)

2) As I stated above, I have the discipline of a Spartan, and will follow all of the doctor's guidelines TO A TEE, without exception.

I know that the only documented case of a 100% ATHLETIC recovery (not just of everyday functions), is ShyShy, who did the surgery with Guichet and followed his guidelines.  And he lengthened 7.5 cm, a full 50% more than my goal.

What concerns me is that with the rest of Guichet's diaries, they are either incomplete (the patient just abruptly stops posting in the middle of their recovery), or the patient did not make a full athletic recovery.  However, for this latter set, those patients either got greedy and continued clicking after Guichet instructed them to stop, or they did not adhere 100% to his training regimen.  So it's hard to draw conclusions from these.

I am looking to get a better idea of how realistic 100% athletic recovery is, if I follow Guichet's instructions like ShyShy, AND only lengthen 5 cm. 

I am looking for past LL patients who STUCK TO THE PROTOCOL and are willing to chat via phone/Skype about their experiences, good or bad.  Guichet patients would be ideal, but that is not necessary.  What's important is that you are a patient who was fully committed throughout the entire process and followed your doctor's instructions like gospel.  Since this is such a big decision, I am willing to pay you for your time, via PayPal, Square, Venmo, or whatever method you prefer.  If you're willing, please PM me.

Look forward to speaking with some of you,
Quincy

[KiloKAHN]

So I just got off a FaceTime session with Guichet, and am quite sure I am going to go through with the surgery, likely this very summer.  The cost isn't an issue, the pain I can handle, and I know I have the discipline to adhere 100% to the pre- and post-op training requirements.  My ONLY, ONLY concern is making a 100% athletic recovery, and I mean 100% — even 99% recovery would be unacceptable to me (this is why I have decided to go with Guichet -- because of his emphasis on full recovery through a rigorous training regimen.)

Imo, if you can't accept possibly never reaching your 100% pre-op athletic potential, then this surgery is best avoided. Amount of distraction is only one part of it. You could still run into complications that happen on the operating table, or your soft tissues could respond very poorly to the lengthening and you'll have problems at the 1st centimeter of distraction. I think it's very likely that you'll recover 100% of your walking ability, but unrealistic to think your running endurance won't take even a 1% hit.

[Quincy]

KiloKAHN,

Thanks for your input.  In your opinion, what do you think is realistic as far as athletic recovery, if one has a dogged commitment to the training, etc?  How well have you personally recovered?

[Alittletooshort]

I didn't do the surgery yet, getting a 100% recovery is unlikely in though. If you are not willing to accept loosing some of your atheletic abilities, don't get this surgery.
Doing a resonable amount with a good Dr. seems like a safe choice, you will probably loose some explosiveness and endurance non the less.

[Peaceout]

You will NEVER reach your pre-op athletic potential,so dont expect that.But (assuming you wont have any problems in lengthening and recovery phase) you can still get to a decent athletic level.
This surgery is a trade off.You will have to sacrifice something for extra cms.Every LLer will trade their athletism with those extra cms and some will go further and trade their proportions too.

[KiloKAHN]

KiloKAHN,

Thanks for your input.  In your opinion, what do you think is realistic as far as athletic recovery, if one has a dogged commitment to the training, etc?  How well have you personally recovered?

My walking and going up/down stairs is back to pre-op level. Running feels a bit weird and I have to stop quickly because of pressure that builds up, but I think I have CECS and it's something that not everyone will encounter. From what I've gathered, explosiveness and endurance are what take the biggest hits when running. I'm going to be reuniting with my old judo team on Monday and my old coach brought an extra gi so I can practice with them. I'll let you know how that goes and probably post a vid of what I'm able to do.

[Nightwish]

If 99% recovery is unacceptable to you, then I have bad news... You will not recovery 100%, it is impossible. You can have an excellent recovery, but 100% isn't happening. Based on what I've read and my dealing with sports injuries anyway...

[Lgazer]

@ Nightwish and others - Sure 100% not possible? Which are the worst results you've seen?

@OP - I know some patients who would be interested in talking. For how long would they have to talk? Would you sign a confidentiality contract?  Do you want their real names? Would you expose them in the forum or keep the secrets for yourself?

[programdude]

100% Is not happening.

[Thatdude950]

100% Is not happening.

this. Lurk more. See the compendium of diaries thread. What you want is not possible with current technology.

[programdude]

Exactly. Thats not to say people cant be happy or NEARLY fully recover- Or fully recover in all senses except high level sports etc.

But to not be even open to the option of a 99% level recovery means this surgery isn't for you.

[goodlucktomylegs]

Exactly. Thats not to say people cant be happy or NEARLY fully recover- Or fully recover in all senses except high level sports etc.

But to not be even open to the option of a 99% level recovery means this surgery isn't for you.

Hey dude
If i want 90-95% of speed and agility,could it be possible?

[toafrica]

Besides you will never get 100% recovery (I would say not even 90%), that Spartan attitude doesn't work like that.

I'm current LLer, and although there are guys who have a really easy time, but if not, when pain 10/10 comes, no man on earth would be able to do any exercises (I hope you never get to 10/10)

[AimHigh]

I have had a lot of painfull mototorbike related bone/joint/road rash njuries over the years - but only with LL (RFemur only) could i not sleep through the night 😉

[Knik]

KiloKAHN
when you say that we will never find our level of yesteryear, is it not the case every time that leg breaks ?
and can t we always do sports in a moderate level?

[Thatdude950]

Hey dude
If i want 90-95% of speed and agility,could it be possible?

99% not possible. There's been no post LL squats or deadlifts over 100kg. No examples of something like a mediocre broad jump or vertical leap. What are your current stats re: strength and agility??

[goodlucktomylegs]

99% not possible. There's been no post LL squats or deadlifts over 100kg. No examples of something like a mediocre broad jump or vertical leap. What are your current stats re: strength and agility??

Nah
My current stats: i dun no, never measured yet
I just ask for probability for maximize functional and athletic ability post ll

[YellowSpike]

Agree with PD, 100% isn't possible. I'd say at best, depending on how much you lengthen, 90% might be possible. I'd say (conservatively) I'm at like 85% right now. I can lift weights on my legs (squat, press, etc.) no problem, and my running is improving. It'd be perfect if the left screw issue didn't cause me to have a weak glute medius on my left side (thus causing a very slight sway).

[Quincy]

100% Is not happening.

Agree with PD, 100% isn't possible. I'd say at best, depending on how much you lengthen, 90% might be possible. I'd say (conservatively) I'm at like 85% right now. I can lift weights on my legs (squat, press, etc.) no problem, and my running is improving. It'd be perfect if the left screw issue didn't cause me to have a weak glute medius on my left side (thus causing a very slight sway).

YellowSpike and Programdude,

Thank you both for your input.  I've read both of your diaries -- two of my favorites.  Ok, so say 100% athletic recovery isn't possible.  The reality is, I'm not a professional athlete nor do I even participate a great deal in sports.  But I will do the occasional 5K, mud run, or pick-up football game, and I wouldn't want to be barred from continuing those activities.

Probably my biggest concern, athletics-wise, is what affect it will have on lifting weights, both in terms of bodybuilding and the amount of weight I'll be able to lift.  Will I permanently lower the ceiling on my strength potential, and on my ability to build muscle?  Programdude, I know you do some modeling and presumably lifting weights is a regular part of your life.  Have you been able to reach or exceed your pre-surgery strength levels, or experienced any hindrance at all in developing your muscular "aesthetics"?  I know your leg snapped in half shortly after your surgery and that obviously hindered your recovery in these areas, but as far as the surgery itself, do you feel there is any permanent deleterious effect? 

YellowSpike, have you regained your previous strength levels on those lifts you mentioned?

I ask the same question of anyone else reading this who's had the surgery and lifts weights.

[Quincy]

@OP - I know some patients who would be interested in talking. For how long would they have to talk? Would you sign a confidentiality contract?  Do you want their real names? Would you expose them in the forum or keep the secrets for yourself?

Well, obviously you don't know me so you'd have to put some trust in me here, but yes, I'd keep it confidential.  I don't have any need for real names, as that isn't relevant to the information I'm seeking here.  As far as "exposing" people, I don't really see what my motivation would be to do such a thing.  Especially if I'm paying for it, I'd want to keep it only to myself if that's what was asked.  I suppose I could sign a contract, but a true contract would have to include both party's names, which would undercut your desire to remain anonymous.

I'd expect the conversation would be anywhere from 30 mins to an hour.

[programdude]

You can definitely get your legs muscular and look great.

If you want 90% recovery, sure it might be possible, but my point is that if you aren't willing to accept anything less than X% amount of recovery you are setting yourself up for disappointment. You need to be potentially ready to not walk properly for awhile, and then not be as strong/athletic for awhile- And perhaps have signifigantly decreased athletic performance.

Again, thats not to say you can't/won't be quickly and almost fully recovered but there is a big difference between what is possible and what is guaranteed. Neither I or anyone else can say "yeah you will recover X amount for sure". Even with the best dr. you could die on the operating table, never walk again, have numerous complications, walk poorly, walk well but not be able to run, and the list goes on.

You are signing up for a risk with LL and some areas of your quality of life WILL change- and the best anyone can do is give you an average of how much that change will be. Anyone giving guarantees is a liar/irresponsible.

[YellowSpike]

Full athletic recovery I would say is impossible, but your satisfaction depends in large part on your lifestyle. My main concern (as vain as this sounds) is to look good, so I wanted to be taller and still be able to lift weights/squat etc. and do cardio at least at the gym (row machine, stairmaster, elliptical, etc.). Running/jogging is important to me, but I've never been a runner per se, so it's not a dealbreaker as it might be to some. But I remain committed to as full a recovery as I can.

As far as my leg strength, my quads/hamstrings/glutes are filling in nicely. I actually have a nice ass again lol. And I think my strength in squats/weights for legs is pretty much what it was pre-LL. Or, VERY close to it.

[Quincy]

You can definitely get your legs muscular and look great.

If you want 90% recovery, sure it might be possible, but my point is that if you aren't willing to accept anything less than X% amount of recovery you are setting yourself up for disappointment. You need to be potentially ready to not walk properly for awhile, and then not be as strong/athletic for awhile- And perhaps have signifigantly decreased athletic performance.

Again, thats not to say you can't/won't be quickly and almost fully recovered but there is a big difference between what is possible and what is guaranteed. Neither I or anyone else can say "yeah you will recover X amount for sure". Even with the best dr. you could die on the operating table, never walk again, have numerous complications, walk poorly, walk well but not be able to run, and the list goes on.

You are signing up for a risk with LL and some areas of your quality of life WILL change- and the best anyone can do is give you an average of how much that change will be. Anyone giving guarantees is a liar/irresponsible.

programdude,

I am prepared for the possibility, even the likelihood, that I won't be able to walk properly for awhile, and of course that I won't be as strong/athletic for awhile after the surgery.  What I'm concerned with here is the eventual recovery.

As with anything in life, I know that there are no guarantees — certainly not when it comes to a major surgery.  I was just trying to gauge the *likelihood* of recovering 100% of one's previous athleticism.  The consensus seems to be that the likelihood is close to zero, and I'm okay with that.  In truth, a 90% athletic recovery wouldn't be unacceptable to me.  I took an extreme "100% or bust" stance in my initial post because I wanted to invite the strongest possible criticism.

This brings me to another topic I wanted to raise: There was a interesting thread on here not long ago where the OP drew a distinction between one's "actual" athletic potential and their "realized" athletic potential.  In a nutshell, the idea was that unless you're a professional athlete who has pushed himself to his limit, you would really have no idea what your true pre-LL athletic potential was.  So to illustrate: Say that prior to surgery, you ran a 40-yard dash and clocked in at 5.2 seconds.  Now, if you had actually trained intensively for the 40, perhaps you had the innate potential to run a 4.7.  Now imagine that post-LL surgery, you take a renewed interest in athletics because, for the first time, you are actually PROUD of your body and want to maximize it.  I can certainly relate to this notion: for example, it's hard for me to get excited about bodybuilding because I don't have a foundational acceptance of my body's "frame".  I look at myself in those mirrors at the gym and think, "What's the point?  No matter how hard I work out, I'm just going to look like a buff teenager, never a man."  So I have little doubt that I would train harder post-LL than I do now.  Anyway, back to the example: Immediately after LL, your athleticism takes a big hit because you're recovering from a major surgery.  You now run a pathetic 6.0 on the 40.  But because you actually appreciate your body for once, you start training in earnest.  After some time, you eventually get up to the point where you're running a 4.9.  So here's where the important distinction comes into play: Due to the surgery, your "actual" potential on the 40-yard dash slowed from 4.7 seconds to 4.9 seconds.  However, you are finally pushing yourself to your athletic limit, and you are now running faster than you ever have before. 

Now, is the above scenario a realistic conceptualization of what decreased athleticism could look like, if one began training harder than they ever had before?  Again, I'm not looking for guarantees here — I'm just trying to get an idea of whether this is plausible.  Or does decreased athleticism mean accepting being "gimpy" for the rest of your life?

[Quincy]

As far as my leg strength, my quads/hamstrings/glutes are filling in nicely. I actually have a nice ass again lol. And I think my strength in squats/weights for legs is pretty much what it was pre-LL. Or, VERY close to it.

YellowSpike,

So you believe you'll eventually be able to exceed your pre-LL maximum's on those lifts?  Do you have any concern that the new bone in your femurs might not be strong enough to support heavy weight on the squat?  That's a biggie for me.  I've read that the new bone grows in just as strong or stronger than the existing bone, but I wanted to hear your thoughts since you are actually experiencing it.

[Quincy]

My walking and going up/down stairs is back to pre-op level. Running feels a bit weird and I have to stop quickly because of pressure that builds up, but I think I have CECS and it's something that not everyone will encounter. From what I've gathered, explosiveness and endurance are what take the biggest hits when running. I'm going to be reuniting with my old judo team on Monday and my old coach brought an extra gi so I can practice with them. I'll let you know how that goes and probably post a vid of what I'm able to do.

Hi Kilo,

How did your judo meet go? 

[KiloKAHN]

 

Hi Kilo,

How did your judo meet go?

Relative got in a car accident the Friday just before so I skipped the meet to take care of her while she was recovering.

[Chocolate Milk]

Relative got in a car accident the Friday just before so I skipped the meet to take care of her while she was recovering.

Yikes, are they ok?

[Quincy]

Damn, sorry to hear that.  Hope she recovers quickly.