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[shawty]

I used to think that I could do 10 cm on my tibs, but after reading through the forums it's obvious that's asking for trouble,  plus no doctor should really even allow that. I'm already 5'7" and want to be 5'11". That's why im thinking do 5-6 on tibs and 5-4 on femurs. It seems also that externals are the way to go. Forget the nails. Sure frames for longer but at least you can save the knee.

[thetallerman]

I used to think that I could do 10 cm on my tibs, but after reading through the forums it's obvious that's asking for trouble,  plus no doctor should really even allow that. I'm already 5'7" and want to be 5'11". That's why im thinking do 5-6 on tibs and 5-4 on femurs. It seems also that externals are the way to go. Forget the nails. Sure frames for longer but at least you can save the knee.

You have virtually the same mindset as me: do a safe amount of lengthening, save your knees from terrible pain, and do externals...I'm also 5'7 (170cm) and though I'd love to be 5'11, I don't know if I'd have the will to go through it twice. I think I could do 2 surgeries no problem, but it's the lengthening part and fear of incredible boredom and life flying by that makes me want to do this only once. I want to do this once and get to at the very minimum 5'9, and maybe 5'9.5 as that would be great to be the US average, and 5'10 if my body is feeling up to the challenge and I still look ok proportionally. And if were to get to 5'9.5 or 5'10 (which would be awesome) I would be satisfied enough as I've worn lifts at those heights and feel pretty average, I am able to attract women just fine, and I feel overall confident enough at those heights.

[HK]

I used to think that I could do 10 cm on my tibs, but after reading through the forums it's obvious that's asking for trouble,  plus no doctor should really even allow that. I'm already 5'7" and want to be 5'11". That's why im thinking do 5-6 on tibs and 5-4 on femurs. It seems also that externals are the way to go. Forget the nails. Sure frames for longer but at least you can save the knee.

Hey !
So, you're saying internal nails probably lead to permanent knee pain/issues ?

[shawty]

Hey !
So, you're saying internal nails probably lead to permanent knee pain/issues ?

Tbh, I can't say for certain as I've never done it. I'm just using my own common sense. no nail through the kneecap in my mind seems like it'd save you from knee pains. I'm still doing as much research as I can as I won't be ready for at least a year financially for this.

Plus doing a smaller amount such as 5cm. I'm 5'7" and I don't want care to be 6ft. I'd be more than happy at 5'11". 4 inches split between two parts is more realistic than 3+ in one. Athletic ability is a HUGE factor. I need to be able  to perform at my current level

[amatan]

I used to think that I could do 10 cm on my tibs, but after reading through the forums it's obvious that's asking for trouble,  plus no doctor should really even allow that. I'm already 5'7" and want to be 5'11". That's why im thinking do 5-6 on tibs and 5-4 on femurs. It seems also that externals are the way to go. Forget the nails. Sure frames for longer but at least you can save the knee.

This is exactly the case I am in, I recently just did 5.5 on femurs and I'm considering doing 4 cm on tibias in a few years and can't decide between using another internal (maybe the precice) and going with externals on tibias. If price isn't a factor, the precice for tibias if you are looking for a smaller gain such as 4-4.5 cm imo can't be beat.

[shawty]

This is exactly the case I am in, I recently just did 5.5 on femurs and I'm considering doing 4 cm on tibias in a few years and can't decide between using another internal (maybe the precice) and going with externals on tibias. If price isn't a factor, the precice for tibias if you are looking for a smaller gain such as 4-4.5 cm imo can't be beat.

What was your experience like? How are you doing?  Do you have a diary? 

[KiloKAHN]

Hey !
So, you're saying internal nails probably lead to permanent knee pain/issues ?

There are studies showing that inserting a rod into the tibia has lead to persistent knee pain even after rod removal. Depending on the study you will see a different percentage, but there was one showing as high as 70% had that issue.

[shawty]

Hey Kilo,

Have you done any LL or are considering?  Would you do externals only?

[shawty]

Personally for me, LON/LATN isn't even an option..even in my femurs, I wouldn't do nails, only externals for a 5cm gain. If people/results show external femurs for even small gains are a bad idea, then oh well, looks like I'll have to be happy with 5cm on my tibias.

[KiloKAHN]

Hey Kilo,

Have you done any LL or are considering?  Would you do externals only?

Will start lengthening this April. I'm not going to do externals. I'd prefer to do plate fixation.

[amatan]

What was your experience like? How are you doing?  Do you have a diary?

Pretty bad compared to other precice patients, but I did achieve my goal in the end so I can't complain too much.

Pretty good right now.  I should be able to stand by the end of the month or early april. 

Yes, I have a diary, I did the procedure with Dr. Donghoon Lee in south Korea.  To sum it up, my right leg was not lengthening properly from the start (Dr. Lee thinks this was due to my incredibly fast bone callus formation in the right leg), I wasn't getting enough from each lengthening.  At about 4 cm the device stopped lengthening completely and they had to do a second surgery and rebreak the bone.  Afterwards, the device still didn't lengthen properly, but I was getting enough from each lengthening that I was able to hit my target of 5.4-5.5 cm eventually, putting me at 176.5 cm.  It was fairly comfortable 99% of the time with the exception of a few moments that were incredibly painful.   

[mediocre]

Hi Amatan.

Congrats for achieving your goal although, lots of hiccups there.

The answer may be obvious but still I want to know your general experience on LL. Would you recommend precice? Wound you recommend Dr Donghoon Lee?

Thanks.

[amatan]

Hard to say so far, but based on patients I met who have done 6 or less cm lengthenings here (most Koreans are very conservative in how much they lengthen in comparison to Westerners, very rarely does anyone lengthen over 6.5cm here), they say they've regained all or pretty close to their previous athletic ability, although I have noticed that the femur patients  as a whole recovered better than the tibia patients.  One patient here who did 6 cm on tibias say his sprint speed for a certain distance I don't remember went from 12.0 seconds to 12.8 after two years post surgery, which I consider a pretty good recovery. Talking to a lot the patients made one trend stick out to me - stick to 6 cm or less if you want to recover very close to your pre-op athletic level.  This is the main reason I decided to stick in the 5-6 cm range rather than go for my original target of 7.5 cm. 

I believe the two cases of precice malfunctions here were more or less freak isolated incidents.  Looking back on it objectively, I would still recommend the precice, the only disadvantage it has is that most doctors do not let you weight bear with it.

Dr. Lee is probably one of the best surgeons in the world for LL.  It's something I've heard a lot of surgeons here say, and he is regarded as possibly the top orthopedic surgeon in the whole of South Korea in LL and deformity correction.  Dr. Paley himself even said that he could not have done a better job with the surgery than Dr. Lee did when he was observing him.     

[ChrisIsaak]

Looking back on it objectively, I would still recommend the precice, the only disadvantage it has is that most doctors do not let you weight bear with it.   

Thanks for sharing this. I have observed the same thing with Turkish doctors, they are usually conservative and don't allow you to bear weight with Precice, even though it's technically possible. May I ask what level of weightbearing are you referring to? Were you on a wheelchair like me during your lengthening phase, or were you able to use crutches, at least for making transfers? Wish you a quick recovery.

[shawty]

Does anyone have any experience or information on external femur lengthening for 4-6cm gains

[sadboy]

Reading this forum made me realize that it is actually better to lengthen 5cm on the femurs or at least 5.5cm. On the other hand there is a chance that people might not be satisfied.

If anyone could please help me and answer me this question. Are there people who lengthened on Dr. Guichet and have any complications with how much they lengthened?

[KiloKAHN]

5 cm may seem insignificant just by looking at the number, but a 2 inch height gain makes a whole world of difference in actuality, especially if you're shorter to begin with.

[sadboy]

5 cm may seem insignificant just by looking at the number, but a 2 inch height gain makes a whole world of difference in actuality, especially if you're shorter to begin with.

I agree with you, but most people would say that doing such a surgery for 5 cm is not worth it

[Blackhawk]

At first I was planning on doing 7 but I don't think the potential complications are worth it.  I plan on doing 5-5.5.  Also I think 7 would make my tibs way too long.  Guys with tibs about 7 cms longer than mine are about 6' tall and I am about 5'6" right now.  I think that 5 cms makes a huge difference for most people.

[Smallguy]

I agree with you, but most people would say that doing such a surgery for 5 cm is not worth it

Hey sadboy,

Just read your message. My surgery was screw up but I can walk/run. You can check my video from my diary.

My orthopaedic said the work that was done to my legs were actually an insult. The plates were all bent to begin with. My knee axis are way off causing x-leg or knock knee as they call it here. I was luckly to have no pain and to be able to walk/run again. But having x-leg kind of make it arkward to run with. I would need to wait another year for Canada to operate on me again. They will fix my x-legs and bent plate. My ortho will break one leg at a time and align it back straight again.

My dream for +6 femur in early 2015 has to be postpone now. I wonder what I will do with all the money I save up.

[rickybobby]

to me 5 cm is not worth it, if I am going to spend close to 100K USD i better get ATLEAST 3cm or i will just wear lifts my whole life!

[Disobedient]

There are studies showing that inserting a rod into the tibia has lead to persistent knee pain even after rod removal. Depending on the study you will see a different percentage, but there was one showing as high as 70% had that issue.

how about the femur? I'm considering doing internal road in femur.. don't decided the doctor yet.. but yeah I do think of the internal sometime, and maybe I'll add 3-4cm more to my femur.. ..  but I don't want to damage my knee,! ..
seeing ppl who did LON/LATN I think they're doing fine like smallguy and others however, Sweden in the other hand has a lot of problems ..

[BullSurfer]

I think if you don't do too much like 8 or 9 cm you should be ok.

Just to be safe, doesn't matter which method, lengthen 5 to 6 cm max.

[Moubgf]

nah, waste of money to only lengthen 5 cm, the increase will be so little that you could have not done the surgery at all.

7-7.5 or Don't do it at all.

[amatan]

nah, waste of money to only lengthen 5 cm, the increase will be so little that you could have not done the surgery at all.

7-7.5 or Don't do it at all.

So doing 5 cm is almost nothing, but 45-50% more than nothing is huge.

Makes sense. 

[ChrisIsaak]

Even 5 cm makes a significant difference on your legs' appearance. Being bedridden for two months, one thing I did for fun was keeping a ruler by my side at all times. I would place the ruler vertically to the ground and imagine standing on a box at 5 cm, 6 cm, 7 etc. on my former height to imagine how the difference would be.

[amatan]

Thanks for sharing this. I have observed the same thing with Turkish doctors, they are usually conservative and don't allow you to bear weight with Precice, even though it's technically possible. May I ask what level of weightbearing are you referring to? Were you on a wheelchair like me during your lengthening phase, or were you able to use crutches, at least for making transfers? Wish you a quick recovery.

By the end of the month, full weightbearing (standing without crutches, taking first steps) should happen for me.

During lengthening and right now I am exactly like you are, on a wheelchair almost all the time. Dr. Lee only recently cleared me to stand with a walker and walk in place.  I can't stand totally normally yet (I still have a bit of duck ass) but it felt amazing.  Even though my eye level is only 3-3.5 cm taller than before (the rest will come as my back straightens), it is a huge difference in your perspective.   

[sadboy]

Hey sadboy,

Just read your message. My surgery was screw up but I can walk/run. You can check my video from my diary.

My orthopaedic said the work that was done to my legs were actually an insult. The plates were all bent to begin with. My knee axis are way off causing x-leg or knock knee as they call it here. I was luckly to have no pain and to be able to walk/run again. But having x-leg kind of make it arkward to run with. I would need to wait another year for Canada to operate on me again. They will fix my x-legs and bent plate. My ortho will break one leg at a time and align it back straight again.

My dream for +6 femur in early 2015 has to be postpone now. I wonder what I will do with all the money I save up.

Thanks for replying and I'm so sorry to hear that your surgery was a screw up, after all this surgery isn't easy. Do you think 7 cm on the femurs will be ok and safe?

[ForcedPuberty]

Hard to say so far, but based on patients I met who have done 6 or less cm lengthenings here (most Koreans are very conservative in how much they lengthen in comparison to Westerners, very rarely does anyone lengthen over 6.5cm here), they say they've regained all or pretty close to their previous athletic ability, although I have noticed that the femur patients  as a whole recovered better than the tibia patients.  One patient here who did 6 cm on tibias say his sprint speed for a certain distance I don't remember went from 12.0 seconds to 12.8 after two years post surgery, which I consider a pretty good recovery. Talking to a lot the patients made one trend stick out to me - stick to 6 cm or less if you want to recover very close to your pre-op athletic level.  This is the main reason I decided to stick in the 5-6 cm range rather than go for my original target of 7.5 cm.

4-6cm is the safe zone for athletic function. only go beyond that 4-6cm range if you think that the extra height is worth having, in exchange for an athletic function of 60-70% your current level.

your daily life function becomes affected at a higher cm level than this safe zone.

those who chose to lengthen between 6 and 7 centimeters recovered 100% in performing daily functions, BUT only recovered about 60-70% of their pre-LL athleticism when engaging in serious sports/strenuous activities

and above 7cm is an even greater decrease in function.

it is almost like after 5cm each additional cm is a new level of impairment. of course their are exceptions to the rule.

[ReadRothbard]

I would disagree that 5cm on the femurs and/or tibias is necessarily the limit. I would go with what Dr. Paley says: 7 cm (or maybe slightly more) on the tibias and 8 cm on the femurs. 

[ForcedPuberty]

ok. I look forward to your diary proving this claim. I hope you don't end up like Sweden RR.

I will pray for you.