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Author Topic: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)  (Read 6456 times)

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Peaceout

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Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« on: February 23, 2016, 09:22:06 AM »

On the tibias 6cm is fine.
No actually,i agree with Alittletooshort.Besides that i dont believe %100 recovery exists also more than 4-5 cm increase risks alot i believe.

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TIBIKE200

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2016, 09:34:00 AM »

No actually,i agree with Alittletooshort.Besides that i dont believe %100 recovery exists also more than 4-5 cm increase risks alot i believe.

 I have spoken with someone that have spoken with Catagni patients that did 6-7-8cm on their tibias and they are fine and dont regret it a bit (I will also get patients to contact and I will update).
  I dont know if they were lucky or not, but they are happy with the results (aesthetically and functionally)..
I dont think it's wise to base your opinions on experiences of people who went to third world countries... Let's also say that sleeve-gastronomy is super dangerous because everyone who does it in thailand dies... Common sense people.
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Alittletooshort

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2016, 12:36:29 PM »

I have spoken with someone that have spoken with Catagni patients that did 6-7-8cm on their tibias and they are fine and dont regret it a bit (I will also get patients to contact and I will update).
  I dont know if they were lucky or not, but they are happy with the results (aesthetically and functionally)..
I dont think it's wise to base your opinions on experiences of people who went to third world countries... Let's also say that sleeve-gastronomy is super dangerous because everyone who does it in thailand dies... Common sense people.
I spoke to an othopaedic surgeon who uses the precise2 on a regular basis (mostly when one leg is shorter than the other) and he said that no one fully recovers after 2-3cm´s . This might have been a little exaggerated since he didn´t want me to do this surgery. I honestly don´t believe anyone who did 8cm´s and says he is completely fine. Dr. Peng said that the peope who did more than 5cm´s only recovered 60-70% when it comes to sports, so doing 8 and being fine is not very realistic.
My tibias would be longer than my femurs if I did 8cm´s and I´m 178 so my bones are already longer then the average LL´er.
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TIBIKE200

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2016, 01:46:20 PM »

I spoke to an othopaedic surgeon who uses the precise2 on a regular basis (mostly when one leg is shorter than the other) and he said that no one fully recovers after 2-3cm´s . This might have been a little exaggerated since he didn´t want me to do this surgery. I honestly don´t believe anyone who did 8cm´s and says he is completely fine. Dr. Peng said that the peope who did more than 5cm´s only recovered 60-70% when it comes to sports, so doing 8 and being fine is not very realistic.
My tibias would be longer than my femurs if I did 8cm´s and I´m 178 so my bones are already longer then the average LL´er.

The question is, why the hell you wanna do LL with 178cm (5'10) in the first place...
  This is what I have been told and I am inclined to believe it... I am not advocating anyone to go beyond 6cm on one segment btw... I am still reclefting about either 5 or 6on my tibias.. And about the long legs which you have, longer legs are supposed to mean that you also have longer muscles (There are naturally 190 guys are are more flexible than a 160 guy so the starting height might not matter)
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crimsontide

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2016, 07:16:46 PM »

6 cm is not fine

it will depend

thats the thing... theres no way of knowing  whethere 6 cm is going to be fine  or a  load of trouble until you   actually  do 6 cm, which is a huge gamble
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Daylight

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2016, 07:59:33 PM »

6 cm is not fine

it will depend

thats the thing... theres no way of knowing  whethere 6 cm is going to be fine  or a crapload of trouble until you   actually  do 6 cm, which is a huge gamble
Yeah... thats seems to be the case. I just questioned all the first class doctors, just received 2 responses and basically they say that LL is very individualized. 5 cm does not mean you will be safe, and 7 cm does not mean you cant recover fully for sport activities. In general though, femurs and lesser amount mean more chance for you to recover.
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TIBIKE200

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 10:17:33 PM »

Yeah... thats seems to be the case. I just questioned all the first class doctors, just received 2 responses and basically they say that LL is very individualized. 5 cm does not mean you will be safe, and 7 cm does not mean you cant recover fully for sport activities. In general though, femurs and lesser amount mean more chance for you to recover.

 Who are the two that answered you?
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TIBIKE200

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 11:40:46 PM »

6 cm is not fine

it will depend

thats the thing... theres no way of knowing  whethere 6 cm is going to be fine  or a crapload of trouble until you   actually  do 6 cm, which is a huge gamble

6 is the max from what I have seen. Afterwards it gets risky (Btw when I mean safe, I dont mean 100% I just mean minimizing the risks which still exist).
  Also, it is to be noted that the videos on youtube of the two indian guys (The one that went from 4'11 to 5'2 with rozbruch and the other who did 4inches with paley all did EXTERNALS. I have yet to see good internals outcomes)
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goldenegg

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2016, 12:23:14 AM »

Also, it is to be noted that the videos on youtube of the two indian guys (The one that went from 4'11 to 5'2 with rozbruch and the other who did 4inches with paley all did EXTERNALS. I have yet to see good internals outcomes)

not sure why you feel the need to keep rationalizing externals over internals...

paley himself prefers internals for cosmetic lengthening and has described the shortcomings of externals compared to internals in his research

"external fixators are plagued by high complication rates secondary to pin-tract infections, associated risk of deep infection, neurovascular injuries, prolonged treatment time until removal, muscular and soft-tissue transfixation that lead to contractures and stiffness, pain and discomfort, refracture after removal of the fixators, as well as, psychosocial burden, requirement to perform daily pin cleaning, and physical awkwardness"

the main testimonial on the paley institute website is a guy who successfully did quad internals complete with links to youtube videos of his athletic recovery.  his diary is on the old forum too.  unless of course you want to accuse that of being fake too like shyshy.  there's also oldiebutgoldie and yellowspike off the top of my head.  I dont understand why, but you're refusing to acknowledge the number of successful internal femur recoveries out there
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TIBIKE200

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2016, 12:42:08 AM »

not sure why you feel the need to keep rationalizing externals over internals...

paley himself prefers internals for cosmetic lengthening and has described the shortcomings of externals compared to internals in his research

"external fixators are plagued by high complication rates secondary to pin-tract infections, associated risk of deep infection, neurovascular injuries, prolonged treatment time until removal, muscular and soft-tissue transfixation that lead to contractures and stiffness, pain and discomfort, refracture after removal of the fixators, as well as, psychosocial burden, requirement to perform daily pin cleaning, and physical awkwardness"

the main testimonial on the paley institute website is a guy who successfully did quad internals complete with links to youtube videos of his athletic recovery.  his diary is on the old forum too.  unless of course you want to accuse that of being fake too like shyshy.  there's also oldiebutgoldie and yellowspike off the top of my head.  I dont understand why but there are a number of successful internal femur recoveries out there that you're refusing to acknowledge

Paley also reccomended a max of 5 cm for femurs once... Than extended it to 6.5 and now to 8.5... The funny thing is that this max safe limit is the same as the max of the nails he helped create.
  No, I dont believe every internal diary is fake... I only said it about shyshy's diary. I dont have any proof... It's just my own feeling and it does not mean it's the truth...
  Yellowspike hasnt recovered yet and betz's diaries arent to be fully trusted with all the things that happened there regarding Sysop/apotheosis and betz's agreements...
  Paley's research contradicts Catagni's research about the safety of the external method (which btw, is still used much more worldwide in treating deformeties and disperancies in adults than internal methods).
 Rozbruch, Paley's and even that fraud Dr. Mahboubian used externals in their "most famous" success stories on youtube.
 About deep infections, it is much more common with internals than with externals for the simple fact that the internal nail is inside the bone. The superficial infections are easily dealt with.. Neurovascular damage is due to bad surgeons with lack of knowledge of anatomy.
 And if Paley who treats 150 patiens a year for cosmetic reasons has only one success story on his main website, it means something (and it's not positive in my opinion).
  Btw, if you search on Paley on the web you will see that he was kicked out because of some fraud or something from the hospital he used to work in.
  Do I advocate externals? Yes, but only for tibias (internals do seem the better solution for femurs). But the only thing I do advocate is to go to the best surgeon possible (not thinking about budget because money is not an issue here).
  I have chosen Catagni to be the only possible choice (If will do this surgery... I will decide after consultation) because he (with prof. Cattaneo) are the ones that imported limb lengthening from Ilizarov himself to the rest of the world. Catagni and Cattaneo were the ones that tought this method to the rest of the western world (even Paley says it) and as of today, there is almost no one that is as an expert on this technique as much as him(I mean external tibias).
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goldenegg

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2016, 12:55:55 AM »

  Do I advocate externals? Yes, but only for tibias (internals do seem the better solution for femurs). But the only thing I do advocate is to go to the best surgeon possible (not thinking about budget because money is not an issue here).
  I have chosen Catagni to be the only possible choice (If will do this surgery... I will decide after consultation) because he (with prof. Cattaneo) are the ones that imported limb lengthening from Ilizarov himself to the rest of the world. Catagni and Cattaneo were the ones that tought this method to the rest of the western world (even Paley says it) and as of today, there is almost no one that is as an expert on this technique as much as him(I mean external tibias).

you could very well be right and I agree with a lot of what you're saying too, especially about going to the best surgeons possible for a surgery like this.  agree with your point about deep infections too what I've read about internals since they are inside the bone. and there are risks from having to ream the bone to fit nails.  Catagni seems like a great doctor and if I ever decide to do tibias he'd be one of my top choices.  I just wanted to point out that there are good internal femur cases out there and some of the best doctors focus on internal femurs  ;D     
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TIBIKE200

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2016, 01:17:56 AM »

you could very well be right and I agree with a lot of what you're saying too, especially about going to the best surgeons possible for a surgery like this.  agree with your point about deep infections too what I've read about internals since they are inside the bone. and there are risks from having to ream the bone to fit nails.  Catagni seems like a great doctor and if I ever decide to do tibias he'd be one of my top choices.  I just wanted to point out that there are good internal femur cases out there and some of the best doctors focus on internal femurs  ;D     

 I dont know how many of the doctors that do internals are as good as they sell themselves... The only internal doctor that I think is a real top notch is baugmart (He visited Tel-aviv's Sorosky medical center many times.. Guichet was never heard of in Israel and Paley was described as a farce by the head of the orthopedic units at the Hadassah medical center of the jerusalem which is our family friend).
 
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ub40

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2016, 06:48:28 PM »

I have yet to see a good internal diary as well. It seems like no one really recovers 100% and they're all partially happy with their outcomes. The external tibias all seem more promising and quite frankly that's the route I'm going to take. Just planning my trip now
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aspirant185

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2016, 07:30:14 PM »

I dont know how many of the doctors that do internals are as good as they sell themselves... The only internal doctor that I think is a real top notch is baugmart (He visited Tel-aviv's Sorosky medical center many times.. Guichet was never heard of in Israel and Paley was described as a farce by the head of the orthopedic units at the Hadassah medical center of the jerusalem which is our family friend).
 

Mitkovic is a top notch doctor. I ve read all the diaries, and they all seem spectacular. People were really happy with the outcome and recovery. Besides, his external device is not as heavy and impossible to hide as the ones of the other doctors. Just because he works in Eastern Europe and charges below 10 000 euro does not mean he is not a top doctor.
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Current afternoon height: 175.5 cm
Wingspan - 182 cm
Target height 184 cm
Considering doing 4.3 cm Femurs and 4.2 cm Tibias with Dr. Milorad Mitkovic in Serbia.

TIBIKE200

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2016, 07:35:19 PM »

Mitkovic is a top notch doctor. I ve read all the diaries, and they all seem spectacular. People were really happy with the outcome and recovery. Besides, his external device is not as heavy and impossible to hide as the ones of the other doctors. Just because he works in Eastern Europe and charges below 10 000 euro does not mean he is not a top doctor.

  From my understanding he is retired... That's why I didnt name him. There is also Barinov which seems good. I said that Catagni is one of the best... Not the only one
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aspirant185

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2016, 10:24:19 PM »

Mitkovic is very much active. In fact, he will be active next year too. I am exchanging emails with him and will do the surgery 5 cm - 5.5 cm with him in January - March next year
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Current afternoon height: 175.5 cm
Wingspan - 182 cm
Target height 184 cm
Considering doing 4.3 cm Femurs and 4.2 cm Tibias with Dr. Milorad Mitkovic in Serbia.

TIBIKE200

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2016, 10:45:16 PM »

Mitkovic is very much active. In fact, he will be active next year too. I am exchanging emails with him and will do the surgery 5 cm - 5.5 cm with him in January - March next year

K. My bad
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LLuser1

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2016, 10:56:07 PM »

I dont know how many of the doctors that do internals are as good as they sell themselves... The only internal doctor that I think is a real top notch is baugmart (He visited Tel-aviv's Sorosky medical center many times.. Guichet was never heard of in Israel and Paley was described as a farce by the head of the orthopedic units at the Hadassah medical center of the jerusalem which is our family friend).
 

Most of them are salesmen.
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Alittletooshort

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2016, 02:05:59 AM »

I don´t have a problem with the Doctors being salesmen, why shoudln´t they make money with their skills (like everyone else)? I don´t care if my Doctor drives a golden ferrari as long as I get a good treatment.
Offensive promotion is a different story, the way Dr. Mahboubian does it is kinda discusting imo.
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chineseguy

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2016, 02:07:50 AM »

who do you plan to go with, a littletooshort?
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Alittletooshort

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2016, 11:40:44 AM »

I don't know yet, I don't even know if I want to do this surgery. If I do externals, I'd probably go to Catagni, Mitkovich or Solomin.
If I decide to do it with internals it's either Birkholzt or Monegal. 
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Nate170cm

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2016, 12:07:58 PM »

Hi guys,

i'm new to the forum, i'm 170cm tall with the wingspan of 175cm is it possible to gain 4 inches in 1 operation? or is better if 2 succeeding operation of femur then tibia if 2 operations how quickly can i recover and do the 2nd operation? / sorry to hijack a thread as i am relatively new here in this forum. i want to be exactly 5'11 or 180.34cm

thanks :)
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Alittletooshort

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2016, 01:32:10 PM »

Hi guys,

i'm new to the forum, i'm 170cm tall with the wingspan of 175cm is it possible to gain 4 inches in 1 operation? or is better if 2 succeeding operation of femur then tibia if 2 operations how quickly can i recover and do the 2nd operation? / sorry to hijack a thread as i am relatively new here in this forum. i want to be exactly 5'11 or 180.34cm

thanks :)
It's too much for one operation and hardly anyone does two because it's so painful/expensive/time consuming etc.
Do 6cm's with an internal device an call it a day, -5 wingspan is too much anyways.
It can take years to recover if you do more than 2 inches (especially on the tibias). Don't plan the second operation before you have completed the first one.
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ouroboros

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2016, 04:43:11 AM »

Hi guys,

i'm new to the forum, i'm 170cm tall with the wingspan of 175cm is it possible to gain 4 inches in 1 operation? or is better if 2 succeeding operation of femur then tibia if 2 operations how quickly can i recover and do the 2nd operation? / sorry to hijack a thread as i am relatively new here in this forum. i want to be exactly 5'11 or 180.34cm

thanks :)

you can gain 4 inches in one operation, but I think you are going to become self-conscious about your tibia/femur proportions.... most of the guys that do 4 inches in one operation are usually 5'4" or 5'5", and all they care about squeezing every last centimeter with no regard for aesthetic appearance....I can't say that I blame them.   

Since you are 5'7" already, you should be a little more careful about your proportions, because if you play your cards right, you can become your dream height of 180.34cm and have your legs look normal at the same time, even at the beach, etc.
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MirandaProcerusa

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2016, 03:09:18 PM »

Hi guys,

i'm new to the forum, i'm 170cm tall with the wingspan of 175cm is it possible to gain 4 inches in 1 operation? or is better if 2 succeeding operation of femur then tibia if 2 operations how quickly can i recover and do the 2nd operation? / sorry to hijack a thread as i am relatively new here in this forum. i want to be exactly 5'11 or 180.34cm

thanks :)

How old are you and how much is your budget? If you can afford it, I think it's better to spread out the 4 inches into two operations. 2+2 would look better than just 4 inches on either just the tibiae or just the femur.
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TIBIKE200

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Re: Lengthening Amount For Tibia (Merged)
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2016, 11:27:37 PM »

Btw I just went through Catagni's CV. If it's all real and not exagerrated, than this guy is almost a god
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