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[YellowSpike]

The only reason I'm considering internal tibias is because Dr. Paley said they're safe in the hands of the right doctors. Dr. Catagni said the same.

I would do externals if I didn't have to be in frames for months for just 3cm. Obviously I still need to think about all of this. LATN/LON are options too.

[ouroboros]

Why didn´t anyone mention LATP? This is the best option for tibial lengthening imo. You can get rid of the frames fairly quickly and you do not ruin your knees for the rest of your life by splitting them twice, it´s also fully wheight bearing and a lot cheaper than internals.
You can hide the scars by (mostly) removing them with a laser , in combination with hairy legs this shouldn´t be too difficult I guess.

Something is not quite right about this method, probably has to do with severe infection complications and gangrene.  Although I hear that dr shah likes to do this technique.

[Alittletooshort]

Dr Birkholtz and the Dr. who practices in Instanbul (forgot the name) both offer it, If there is no obvious drawback I don´t see why you would ruin your knee when you can have plates inserted instead.
The only thing I know is that plating is often used when there is a complicated fracture on the tibias to keep everything in place and allow wheight bearing, so I assume it works for LL as well.

[TIBIKE200]

There's no argument that externals are better than internals for complications and deformities. In my opinion, that's where it ends.

Something members here don't talk about is the psychological downsides to having externals. You have to wear that hunk of metal for a long time, often holing yourself in for an entire year, and having carry significantly more scars. Dunno bout you, but it takes a different breed of person to do externals and come out ok--I am not one of them. I've noticed many of the external patients having to start a 'new life', whereas many of the internal guys are significantly more positive.

Internals have increased comfort, better recovery when done right, and it allows you to feel normal. The feeling normal part is sooo important. At month 2, I was comfortable with the general public seeing me hobble around on a walker/crutches. The other day I was able to do some fine dining with my doc and another patient without having to feel like people are staring or judging. For me that feeling is priceless.

For these reasons, I can only recommend internals for LL. It's worth saving for, even if you have to do it in your 30s. Now one can have internals done for ~50k to Western standards. Anyone can do this... save 1k each month for 4 years. For determined post-grads, you can do this surgery at 26 or 27.

Cheers

  How do you know they have better recovery if you still haven't recovered yet (I believe you are still lengthening/consolidating?) ? Yes... It's a psychological burden to have those frames on for a year... But if you dont go crazy with the amount lengthened, I dont see why it should be a problem... It depends on the doc you go to. As I said in an earlier post, I dont mind the difficulty of the lengthening itself.. All I care is the result... And frankly? I haven't seen even a single good result with internals (femurs or tibial for that matter)

[ub40]

Why didn´t anyone mention LATP? This is the best option for tibial lengthening imo. You can get rid of the frames fairly quickly and you do not ruin your knees for the rest of your life by splitting them twice, it´s also fully wheight bearing and a lot cheaper than internals.
You can hide the scars by (mostly) removing them with a laser , in combination with hairy legs this shouldn´t be too difficult I guess.

I asked Dr Birkholtz and he said the same knee issues are present in LATP as are in LON. He prefers that method for misalignment issues but for healthy legs he said his preference is still LON

[texasbruce]

  How do you know they have better recovery if you still haven't recovered yet (I believe you are still lengthening/consolidating?) ? Yes... It's a psychological burden to have those frames on for a year... But if you dont go crazy with the amount lengthened, I dont see why it should be a problem... It depends on the doc you go to. As I said in an earlier post, I dont mind the difficulty of the lengthening itself.. All I care is the result... And frankly? I haven't seen even a single good result with internals (femurs or tibial for that matter)

shyshy is good... others... hm...

[Adonis]

On the old forum old forum , Andrewshizzles and OldieButGoldie both posted videos of them jogging/running and even skiing. I would count that as complete recovery. Both did internal femurs (Andrew up to 9cm) with Betz.

[YellowSpike]

On the old forum old forum , Andrewshizzles and OldieButGoldie both posted videos of them jogging/running and even skiing. I would count that as complete recovery. Both did internal femurs (Andrew up to 9cm) with Betz.

I feel like I'll be able to run fine as soon as I either get the nails out or at least have the left screw on my left hip adjusted (which Dr. G said he'd do if I chose to lengthen femurs a bit more and leave the rods in for the time being). Aside from that, i've recovered pretty well with no real complications (I'd say I'm 90% recovered, including athletic ability).

[ub40]

I feel like I'll be able to run fine as soon as I either get the nails out or at least have the left screw on my left hip adjusted (which Dr. G said he'd do if I chose to lengthen femurs a bit more and leave the rods in for the time being). Aside from that, i've recovered pretty well with no real complications (I'd say I'm 90% recovered, including athletic ability).

So you can't run right now? How long has it been since you've had the surgery. From my understanding you did ex fix with LON right?

[crimsontide]

this is where I have to point something out

we all have different definitions of what 90% is

If I can't run, I'm more at 50% instead of 90%

90% to me is that I can do  EVERYTHING  I could do before, and even at a high level... but  not quite at the level I was at before.. that is 90% to me

Not being able to run or jump is something I would consider a big issue... I' could never consider myself at 90% if I couldn't do basic things like run easily

this forum warps the mind.... running is made out to be some some super elite athletic task

in the real world,   any normal young male should be able to run easily and without thinking about it

[YellowSpike]

Let me clarify...I AM ABLE TO RUN. And pretty well. Just takes effort at the moment, mainly because of the screw in my left hip. So to me, I am 90%. I think if it weren't for the left screw issue (which causes a lot of pain and weak gluteus medius, which has its own issues), I'd be closer to where I'd like to be. My legs are strong enough and my flexibility is making great strides. But running with a thorn in your side hip (quite literally) is very unpleasant. It's frustrating because I think I'd be able to do it much more easily if not for that.

[YellowSpike]

But I'll concede, maybe im more like 80%. I feel totally normal and feel like running would be totally effortless (just ran a little while ago) if not for my weak glute medius due to the stupid left screw.

[crimsontide]

lots of pain    means less than 90% to me, but can't argue if it's good enough for you.  We're all different

I just think a lot of members fool themselves into believing they're better than they really are.... I don't think you should get another surgery, and think it would be a huge risk for little reward

breaking your legs for 3 more  cm???  I've seen your photos... don't get another surgery,not needed

I am so against this surgery now.... If  1 person doesn't get this surgery because of me, then I've done my job

DON'T DO IT  YELLOW

[YellowSpike]

My legs look much better now because I've bulked them up much more, dude. I should also add...I went skiing two weeks ago. Had to stay on green circles and went slower...but I did it!!

Not sure what I'm doing yet, but im getting those last 3-4cm. And nothing is going to stop me. And I'm gonna be fine. But I'm takin my time, planning, doing my research, and will pick another great doctor. I'd never go to India or to a doctor without a proven track record. Not for this.

* Edit - I did blue squares too when I went skiing and I was fine. Main issue is that I had to watch my speed and certain movements where the left screw issue acts up.

[TIBIKE200]

BTW, you can also do a double osteotomy (Catagni and Pili do them). It means that you will lengthen 1-1.5mm a day which will shorten your lengthening period. I know that they assess the possibility of doing it based on your stats during the consultation. After the lengthening period you can go back to your home country with the frames on (some people do it) and go back later to remove them.

[crimsontide]

ll warps the mind

yellow, you seem like an intelligent fellow

you just said you're in a lot of pain because of this surgery, and you're telling us you're going to rebreak your legs to gain 3 cm no matter what?

I know you think the pain issue will be resolved, but surely a more  logical thing would be to think..  I wanna get 3 cm, but I'm still not recovered yet, and am in pain, so if it doesn't get much better, I'll just accept my current height of 5'8

getting another surgery is almost assuredly a mistake, even if it turns out okay

5'8 is an ok height....   getting both legs broken   is a big deal... especially when it's an elective surgery, and one is 5'8... and already had  the same surgery yet it didn't fix the height neurosis

I  made a mistake getting this surgery, and will fix my issues... but  I accept it was an error... fixing my issues won't absolve my  past errors

Even after I'm ok... I'm not sure  I'll be thinking  that my ll surgery was positive

 You can't get  the time back that was wasted  having two broken legs... or the money that was spent

anyone that is worrying about athletic recovery should avoid this surgery... be happy you  have both your legs, and can live a normal life

being short is  not even close to being the worst problem you can have

[YellowSpike]

And one last thing on my assessment of my own recovery. When I say 80-90%, I'm factoring in that my running would likely be effortless if not for the left screw issue. The pain has improved greatly, as ive forced myself to work through it. But my legs feel strong and my flexibility has gotten a lot better as I've worked on it a lot more recently. I am diligent, and with the amount of work i put in, with no real major issues, I am confident I'll get to where I need to be.

I think considering that I did this sh*t all on my own, started working while still clicking and was one of the unlucky Guichet patients that got the left screw hip pain, I've done pretty well, at least average.

[YellowSpike]

ll warps the mind

yellow, you seem like an intelligent fellow

you just said you're in a lot of pain because of this surgery, and you're telling us you're going to rebreak your legs to gain 3 cm no matter what?

I know you think the pain issue will be resolved, but surely a more  logical thing would be to think..  I wanna get 3 cm, but I'm still not recovered yet, and am in pain, so if it doesn't get much better, I'll just accept my current height of 5'8

getting another surgery is almost assuredly a mistake, even if it turns out okay

5'8 is an ok height....   getting both legs broken   is a big deal... especially when it's an elective surgery, and one is 5'8... and already had  the same surgery yet it didn't fix the height neurosis

I  made a mistake getting this surgery, and will fix my issues... but  I accept it was an error... fixing my issues won't absolve my  past errors

Even after I'm ok... I'm not sure  I'll be thinking  that my ll surgery was positive

 You can't get  the time back that was wasted  having two broken legs... or the money that was spent

anyone that is worrying about athletic recovery should avoid this surgery... be happy you  have both your legs, and can live a normal life

being short is  not even close to being the worst problem you can have

I'll respond to this more in detail later. I only want an inch more and am confident I could recover quite well if I do it right and carefully. My height neurosis isn't gone because 5'8" is still bad for where I live and my career.

Will add more thoughts later. I don't disagree entirely with what you say.

[crimsontide]

btw

I don't know what this means, but I can touch my toes with both legs straight

Guess my flexibility is ok... but my left leg is just about dead

nerve damage

arthritis  in my ankle... achilles wrecked.... bone hurts,  back of the leg hurts... limp,

disaster

Ill challenge you to a sprint after I get this left leg fixed

[Daylight]

I did 7cm on femurs (166 to 173). My evening height is usually right around 173 (sometimes a mm or two above or below). But never have I gone below 5'8" since I've mostly fixed my duckass by now.

I want to be at least 175-176. Will have to suck it up and do tibias, but trying to figure out the least suckiest way possible to get those 3cm added to my tibias and be done with this sh*t forever. Not stopping until I get it

Is your explosiveness still as before or worst? I saw videos of people who ve done 7 cms running (sweden, Shyshy). It did give me a feeling that the surgery did decreased their explosiveness. What do you say about this?

[Polycrates.]

I'm focusing on my athletic abilities more than ever now that I can decently walk. At my age I want to be able to do more than just walk around. My main issue is dorsiflexion. I'll probably inquire about nail removal this summer, and if my dorsiflexion is still  ty, possibly for a tendon lengthening as well.

[chineseguy]

polycrates.    what did you lengthen?  how
many cm and which doctor did you do it -and is it ok to know your age?


thanks

[Polycrates.]

tibia 6cm external lon 27 yo

[chineseguy]

how is your recovery?    polycrates

[ub40]

tibia 6cm external lon 27 yo

That's exactly what I want to do.

Do you have a diary posted? How has your recovery been, any knee pain?

[YellowSpike]

ll warps the mind

yellow, you seem like an intelligent fellow

you just said you're in a lot of pain because of this surgery, and you're telling us you're going to rebreak your legs to gain 3 cm no matter what?

I know you think the pain issue will be resolved, but surely a more  logical thing would be to think..  I wanna get 3 cm, but I'm still not recovered yet, and am in pain, so if it doesn't get much better, I'll just accept my current height of 5'8

getting another surgery is almost assuredly a mistake, even if it turns out okay

5'8 is an ok height....   getting both legs broken   is a big deal... especially when it's an elective surgery, and one is 5'8... and already had  the same surgery yet it didn't fix the height neurosis

I  made a mistake getting this surgery, and will fix my issues... but  I accept it was an error... fixing my issues won't absolve my  past errors

Even after I'm ok... I'm not sure  I'll be thinking  that my ll surgery was positive

 You can't get  the time back that was wasted  having two broken legs... or the money that was spent

anyone that is worrying about athletic recovery should avoid this surgery... be happy you  have both your legs, and can live a normal life

being short is  not even close to being the worst problem you can have

I agree with most of what you said. And I concede that I should probably change my stance to "if I make a full recovery from this, I'll see how I feel then, then decide." That is a better way to look at it.

I just know myself very well. I never do things half-assed and never stop short of my goals. I still want to be at least a solid 5'9". That's really all I want now. Ideally, I'd want 5'10", but tibia lengthening is slower and riskier, so I'll just take an extra inch (which DOES make a difference, just not as huge as what I just did). I thought 5'8" would make me happy, but I feel like I told myself that because that was what I could realistically get to with one surgery. I'd cream my pants to be 5'10", but will happily take 5'9" (better proportions and less time). I can see how 5'9" is really a threshold...I feel like I'm just short of blending in (height wise).

The only pain I really have now is from the stupid left screw in my hip area. That should resolve when it comes out. This summer, I'm going to see Dr. G and Dr. Catagni (same trip).  I'll probably have the screw adjusted at that time (want to leave the rods in a big longer just to be extra safe).

Besides the left screw, my only general issues (from having a sitting job) are hip and quad tightness, but I've been trying to stretch more and more, and it helps. And the slight pain in my right knee has been improving with stretching.

[KiloKAHN]

Most of your strength in the legs is in the quadriceps muscles, so it's my opinion that if lengthening on either segment is done within a reasonable amount, femur lengthening will have a bigger impact on athletic performance than tibia lengthening, despite tibiae taking longer to heal.

[Polycrates.]

Other than my left leg being far worse off than the right (it had some nerve complications due to surgeon) and my crappy dorsiflexion, I am decently recovered. I was elated to be able to walk relatively normal that I gave up stretching too much about a year ago. Now that I want to commence exercise I got a rude awakening when I found out how limited my ankle mobility is. It's not even the minimum suggested for normal activity.

When I stand 13cm away from a wall and touch the wall with my knee, the heel comes up about an inch and a half on each leg when it should be flat, so that's what I need to work on. I am extremely worried I'll never overcome that amount because I can only stretch so much in one day and I just can't see my muscles and tendons stretching out yet another 2 inches from what they've already have had to stretch to.

At least for equinus it could be worked on by simply standing and walking, improving dorsiflexion to a normal range is painstakingly difficult. I will spend 5 or 6 months to see how much I can improved, but I may opt for a tendon release. I would rather have a weakened tendon that'll allow me normal mobility to run and workout than to have tightness for the rest of my life that confines me to brisk walking forever.

[texasbruce]

That's exactly what I want to do.

Do you have a diary posted? How has your recovery been, any knee pain?

What's up with everyone wanting to do LON? Isn't it a known fact LON (or any internal tibias) can cause permanent knee pain?

[crimsontide]

any nailing  will likely cause pain

I have it now in my left  tibia

also, kneeling on a hard surface with my left  leg is awful

[ub40]

How much did you lengthen Poly and with who?

What's up with everyone wanting to do LON? Isn't it a known fact LON (or any internal tibias) can cause permanent knee pain?

Because you can do the whole process and after 3 months go recover somewhere comfortable. It is more of a timing issue, I'm seriously considering LATP however. I just need to know how bad the scars will be