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[TIBIKE200]

I dont know if that LLuster says is true or not, neither do I care (Since I dont consider to be operated by mongreal)... BUT, I do think that people should think about safety before they think about budget when it comes to a surgery like this (Or to any medical procedure of any kind). Dont let money be the thing that make you choose to which doctor to go to. You dont have enough money to go to the top notch docs? Save it up

[ouroboros]

I dont know if that LLuster says is true or not, neither do I care (Since I dont consider to be operated by mongreal)... BUT, I do think that people should think about safety before they think about budget when it comes to a surgery like this (Or to any medical procedure of any kind). Dont let money be the thing that make you choose to which doctor to go to. You dont have enough money to go to the top notch docs? Save it up

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[hanshi]

The sad truth, which unfortunately people don't recognize is that good doctors don't perform cosmetic LL on normal patients at all. A doctor needs to be ruthless to do this. Therefore i can only recommend to everybody not to go to a doctor who does cosmetic LL in case they get complications. Better go to a doctor who doesn't perform cosmetic LL at all. The simple reason is: they won't lie to you.

[Thatdude950]

I dont know if that LLuster says is true or not, neither do I care (Since I dont consider to be operated by mongreal)... BUT, I do think that people should think about safety before they think about budget when it comes to a surgery like this (Or to any medical procedure of any kind). Dont let money be the thing that make you choose to which doctor to go to. You dont have enough money to go to the top notch docs? Save it up

No, not doing the surgery is what makes sense if safety is your concern. More money doesn't mean significantly less risk. We don't have a situation here with a few cheap rogue doctors ruining patients, and then a few experienced expensive guys with little risk and awesome results. There's *signifcant* risk everywhere you go, throwing more money at "good" doctors doesn't change this.

[chineseguy]

scary.     this makes me change my plan

[TIBIKE200]

No, not doing the surgery is what makes sense if safety is your concern. More money doesn't mean significantly less risk. We don't have a situation here with a few cheap rogue doctors ruining patients, and then a few experienced expensive guys with little risk and awesome results. There's *signifcant* risk everywhere you go, throwing more money at "good" doctors doesn't change this.

  There is always a risk. But a doctor with 20% complication rate and one with 5% complication rates it what makes the difference

[TIBIKE200]

The sad truth, which unfortunately people don't recognize is that good doctors don't perform cosmetic LL on normal patients at all. A doctor needs to be ruthless to do this. Therefore i can only recommend to everybody not to go to a doctor who does cosmetic LL in case they get complications. Better go to a doctor who doesn't perform cosmetic LL at all. The simple reason is: they won't lie to you.

 So I can conclude that every plastic surgeon is a ruthless doctor? A ruthless doctor is one who will tell you "With me, nothing will happen to you". A good doctor will tell you "even with the best complications may arise". The first trait to know if a doctor is good or not is honesty... Afterwards come to rest.

[Thatdude950]

  There is always a risk. But a doctor with 20% complication rate and one with 5% complication rates it what makes the difference

Try 50- 60% (probably higher!) vs 30- 40%. Based on diaries anyway.

[TIBIKE200]

Try 50- 60% (probably higher!) vs 30- 40%. Based on diaries anyway.

mostly diaries with third world countries... Frankly, I have no idea how can someone even think to go to india

[PatientZero]

The sad truth, which unfortunately people don't recognize is that good doctors don't perform cosmetic LL on normal patients at all. A doctor needs to be ruthless to do this. Therefore i can only recommend to everybody not to go to a doctor who does cosmetic LL in case they get complications. Better go to a doctor who doesn't perform cosmetic LL at all. The simple reason is: they won't lie to you.

By your logic, you're saying Paley and Guichet are not good doctors. I better cross those guys off my list!

[hanshi]

So I can conclude that every plastic surgeon is a ruthless doctor? A ruthless doctor is one who will tell you "With me, nothing will happen to you". A good doctor will tell you "even with the best complications may arise". The first trait to know if a doctor is good or not is honesty... Afterwards come to rest.

Maybe i didn't make myself clear enough. A good doctor always tries to make sick people healthy again. But looking at cosmetic LL and it's extremely high complication rates it is inevitable for a doctor not to transform from time to time a completely healthy person into a cripple. In order to do this, the doctor has to be ruthless. Think about it. A doctor who specializes in cosmetic LL, i.e. who hardly does anything else actually has to be a sociopath.
The sentence 'complications may arise' is misleading since it still doesn't mention the high probabilities because they are highly relevant. When you enter an airplane you know it might crash, however you know the probability is very low. And none of those drs. specialized in cosmetic LL will tell you the truth about your odds, let alone long-term consequences.

[Knik]

what are long term consequences ?

[TIBIKE200]

Maybe i didn't make myself clear enough. A good doctor always tries to make sick people healthy again. But looking at cosmetic LL and it's extremely high complication rates it is inevitable for a doctor not to transform from time to time a completely healthy person into a cripple. In order to do this, the doctor has to be ruthless. Think about it. A doctor who specializes in cosmetic LL, i.e. who hardly does anything else actually has to be a sociopath.
The sentence 'complications may arise' is misleading since it still doesn't mention the high probabilities because they are highly relevant. When you enter an airplane you know it might crash, however you know the probability is very low. And none of those drs. specialized in cosmetic LL will tell you the truth about your odds, let alone long-term consequences.

  You dont know what are the % of complication rates with the top notch docs (Paley, Guichet, Catagni), since almost all diaries here are of people who went to third world countries like india, russia, egypt (what the hell were they thinking!), Serbia (No offence to the serbs) and other under-developed countries. Best thing is (in my humble opinion), get a consultation long before you plan to do the surgery, prepare good and though questions, and also, visit some doctors before doing this thing... Not just one. I am planning on seeing Catagni, Paley and guichet before deciding what to do.

[aspirant185]

Try 50- 60% (probably higher!) vs 30- 40%. Based on diaries anyway.

The vast majority of people who undergo CLL do not experience complication and never even write on these forums.  Out of the people who post here, significantly more people do not have any complications or if they do, they are treated easily.

[goldenegg]

The vast majority of people who undergo CLL do not experience complication and never even write on these forums.  Out of the people who post here, significantly more people do not have any complications or if they do, they are treated easily.

I have to disagree and this line of thinking is how people rationalize going to bad doctors.  There's a reason why so many orthopedic surgeons refuse to do cosmetic lengthening.  LL is dangerous and risky even with the best doctors, though your odds much are better with good doctors as others have said.

[TIBIKE200]

I have to disagree and this line of thinking is how people rationalize going to bad doctors.  There's a reason why so many orthopedic surgeons refuse to do cosmetic lengthening.  LL is dangerous and risky even with the best doctors, though your odds much are better with good doctors as others have said.

  It's not as risky as some people here believe it to be... Many doctors won't do it for the simple reason that many doctors dont see themselves as good enough to do it. Do you know how many doctors in Israel agree to perform bariatric surgery for cosmetic reasons (not when the person is obese enough)? 2-3 out of maybe 100-200 who know how to do so.

[goldenegg]

Many doctors won't do it for the simple reason that many doctors dont see themselves as good enough to do it.

that may be true in some developed and regulated countries, but if you read enough bad diaries you'll see there are plenty of doctors in third world countries who will gladly perform LL on you if you pay them.

[TIBIKE200]

that may be true in some developed and regulated countries, but if you read enough bad diaries you'll see there are plenty of doctors in third world countries who will gladly perform LL on you if you pay them.

  That's why I said in the first post (That was a comment of mine on another post that somehow became an indipendent post) that people should not consider budget but safety first.

[goldenegg]

  That's why I said in the first post (That was a comment of mine on another post that somehow became an indipendent post) that people should not consider budget but safety first.

ah my bad.  if you were referring to just top doctors as less risky then I totally agree

[TIBIKE200]

ah my bad.  if you were referring to just top doctors as less risky then I totally agree

  Yeah. I means that with the top doctors (Paley, guichet, Catagni (maybe Pili as well), your risks of complications that can not be treated are much lower than the risk if you are going to third world countries doctors who also post fake diaries...
  Btw, didnt you do LL with guichet? If so, how are you today?

[LLuser1]

Maybe i didn't make myself clear enough. A good doctor always tries to make sick people healthy again. But looking at cosmetic LL and it's extremely high complication rates it is inevitable for a doctor not to transform from time to time a completely healthy person into a cripple. In order to do this, the doctor has to be ruthless. Think about it. A doctor who specializes in cosmetic LL, i.e. who hardly does anything else actually has to be a sociopath.
The sentence 'complications may arise' is misleading since it still doesn't mention the high probabilities because they are highly relevant. When you enter an airplane you know it might crash, however you know the probability is very low. And none of those drs. specialized in cosmetic LL will tell you the truth about your odds, let alone long-term consequences.

Hanshi master of masters. You're right. Ruthless is the good word for describing these doctors who don't care about patients but about our money. They underplay risks just to get more customers. LL is a gamble. Most non cosmetic doctors and some cosmetic doctors (Guichet, for example) admit it. Some others don't and deceive you. Unfortunately patients are delusional and don't see the truth until they are in.

[TIBIKE200]

Hanshi master of masters. You're right. Ruthless is the good word for describing these doctors who don't care about patients but about our money. They underplay risks just to get more customers. LL is a gamble. Most non cosmetic doctors and some cosmetic doctors (Guichet, for example) admit it. Some others don't and deceive you. Unfortunately patients are delusional and don't see the truth until they are in.

  Who are the doctors of europe and north america which you find ruthless (Besides Monegal)?

[PatientZero]

  Who are the doctors of europe and north america which you find ruthless (Besides Monegal)?

All of the doctors in Europe and USA are ruthless. If I read this thread before I went under the knife, I would've never done LL.

LL is a dangerous surgery, and all the doctors are dishonest salesmen. Not to mention they are usually bad people and switched from a honest career treating real trauma cases to making cold hard cash from our insecurities.

Final point: LL is the riskiest cosmetic surgery and doctors providing said services are almost always shady. Do not do LL.

[patientdad]

I guess my son was lucky.  Gained 3 inches, zero complications.

[TIBIKE200]

All of the doctors in Europe and USA are ruthless. If I read this thread before I went under the knife, I would've never done LL.

LL is a dangerous surgery, and all the doctors are dishonest salesmen. Not to mention they are usually bad people and switched from a honest career treating real trauma cases to making cold hard cash from our insecurities.

Final point: LL is the riskiest cosmetic surgery and doctors providing said services are almost always shady. Do not do LL.

 With who did you do LL? And why would this procedure (that is being regularly done on people with limb disperancies) be that much of a big deal? Yeah it is a big deal but every surgery is.

[LLuser1]

  Who are the doctors of europe and north america which you find ruthless (Besides Monegal)?

Betz is a good example. Ruthless and deceitful. However, Monegal is worse, IMO. Full of lies.

[LLuser1]

All of the doctors in Europe and USA are ruthless. If I read this thread before I went under the knife, I would've never done LL.

LL is a dangerous surgery, and all the doctors are dishonest salesmen. Not to mention they are usually bad people and switched from a honest career treating real trauma cases to making cold hard cash from our insecurities.

Final point: LL is the riskiest cosmetic surgery and doctors providing said services are almost always shady. Do not do LL.

All of them are shady, some of them very shady and ruthless, but some are worse than others. Paley tells the truth and Guichet shows statistical data to prospective patients. Catagni is good too. I've been told so at least. I never visited him.

[PatientZero]

Time to close the forum guys!

Glad I got my nails in before I found out all these bad things about doctors.  Looks like I made the cut, pun intended.

[ouroboros]

Yeah, I agree.  This whole LL thing was a big waste of time and money. 

I'll just stick to buying scratch tickets from now on.  No risk of major complications there, and the guy selling them behind the counter seems like a pretty honest guy.

[Tiny]

I agree. Don't do LL!

The whole LL industry is shadier than Obama's armpits. See those unfinished diaries? They're prolly all dead by now.

[Revenge]

what is going here