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[Wannabegiant]

Hey Wannabegiant,

Thanks again for posting your experience in such detail and answering all those questions, like I had mentioned earlier I am considering Dr. Bagirov for bilateral tibial lengthening and I have booked a date in August.

I still had a few questions at this point, do you think it would be okay if I PMed you?

Thanks in advance for replying!

I dont remember if i answered your PM or not :p sorry, you are welcome to send me PM if you want.

[Wannabegiant]

Update:

Got some good news, I went to see the local orthopedic doctor in Sweden today, and as soon as he saw my frames the first thing he said was: "Ah so you have been to Russia" (in Swedish obviously). So he had seen other patients coming here with Ilizarovs before and he had prior experience with LL for non-cosmetic purposes (leg length discrepancy etc)

So when i told him how much i had lengthened, when i had the surgery and showed him my previous x-rays from May, he told me that it looked very good and that i probably dont need to wear the frames for that much longer. He also took into account the fact that i had no pain and could walk well unaided when he said this.

So he took x-rays and would analyze them and later send them to me through email along with his comments, and he will set up a proper time to meet up again depending on how well it has healed.

He claims to be able to remove the frames if i wanted to do it in Sweden instead of going back to russia (i dont want to bother with Visa again) and he seemed confident.

Since i will get the x-rays digitally this time, i will be able to post them here as soon as i get them. Shouldnt have to wait that long.

[RGKEY]

Awesome new man!!! Yeah taking off frames is not a big deal im sure if he says he can then he can!))) My inly concern is the xray. Make sure your doctor in russia also look at it before removing frames

[Taller]

Awesome update. Congrats on making it this far! If you get the chance, could you ask your Swedish doctor if Dr. Bagirov did indeed fixate your fibula? It would be awesome to know for sure if he does it or not.

Also, at this point, just how well and how far are you able to walk unaided? Is there still any reliance on crutches? How normally are you able to live your life with the frames now?

[Wannabegiant]

Awesome new man!!! Yeah taking off frames is not a big deal im sure if he says he can then he can!))) My inly concern is the xray. Make sure your doctor in russia also look at it before removing frames

Yes for sure! we agreed that i need to show the x-rays to Bagirov as well and need his allowance to remove the frames, but two doctors opinions are better than one 

Btw this swedish orthpedic knew a method similar to what Barinov did with you Rgkey, he said that if the x-ray is good, then the next time i meet him and the next x-ray is also good, he wil be able to remove some pins so the weight is transferred onto my bones instead of the pins, while keeping the outer pins and the frame so the bone cannot bend. This will speed up consolidation and remove a lot of the risk.

If i went to Bagirov, i would have to remove one frame at a time, with about a week in between, and also walk with crutches for maybe 2 weeks after both are gone and not put much weight on the frame free legs in the beginning. With this other method the risk will be much lower.

[GeTs]

can you post pics? not of the x ray but your body please please

[Wannabegiant]

Awesome update. Congrats on making it this far! If you get the chance, could you ask your Swedish doctor if Dr. Bagirov did indeed fixate your fibula? It would be awesome to know for sure if he does it or not.

Also, at this point, just how well and how far are you able to walk unaided? Is there still any reliance on crutches? How normally are you able to live your life with the frames now?

Thank you yes i will ask him but im almost 100% sure he did fixate them :p my legs wouldnt be so straight otherwise, their angle looks identical to before the surgery, almost straighter but im not sure :p

Also, after laying down for a while or sitting, i almost dont need any warm up any longer before i can start walking quite smoothly, they used to be stiff for the first 10 steps or so, but now i maybe feel a bit stiff for the first 4 steps or less. So i dont need the walker at all anymore.

In fact i walked from the car into the hospital with no aid, i was quite slow of course and the terrain is not even like the floor inside my home but it still went well 

I can pretty much take care of myself like i used to pre surgery, only im way slower of course. And i only have like 1 pair of pants that i can hide the frames in convincingly and still look somewhat "fashionable" (with that i mean not looking like a bum). So im still very limited because i cant see my friends and stuff.. i need to keep it secret, of course if someone saw me i would use the bow leg correction explanation but i rather not have to tell them anything  :p

[Wannabegiant]

can you post pics? not of the x ray but your body please please

hmm i really dont want too.. im very paranoid about stuff about me being on the internet :p i know there is a minimal risk anyone i know will see it and know it is me but i rather not.

I can tell you this, i like my proportions now better than before. My arms used to be to long compared to my legs, so i kind of looked like a lower primate when i was wearing thick sweaters with the sleeves all the way down. it didnt look proportional, but in shorts and t-shirts it didnt look so bad.

Now i can already tell i will look better in all my clothes, and i will be confident enough to wear some other styles which i didnt before 

[Moubgf]

You are 5'10 now right? How does it feel.
Did it cure your height neurosis.
Like you can just put on your shoes and go out the door and unless a 6'4 dude comes along you wont even think about height?.

Also you have on your fixators still. Why did you not get the metal stick inserted?

[Wannabegiant]

You are 5'10 now right? How does it feel.
Did it cure your height neurosis.
Like you can just put on your shoes and go out the door and unless a 6'4 dude comes along you wont even think about height?.

Also you have on your fixators still. Why did you not get the metal stick inserted?

Yeah, im 5'10 or 178 cm during the day (close to 179 in the morning, drops to slightly below 178 in the evening)

And yeah it did cure my height neurosis, although i have to agree with Sweden that it is still common to run into some dudes that dwarf you, but there are more people that are smaller or same size as me when you account for girls, i maybe saw one girl at the hospital who might have been taller than me but it looked like she had some heel. (Karolinska is the name of the hospital and its huge and lots of people around)

Im also slightly bothered by my sitting height which is below average for my height (ca 89 cm) when sitting next to bigger dudes, although it doesnt look bad at all in terms of proportion, my torso looks a good length, i think my low sitting height is because of my thin groin bones. But most people dont sit straight anyway so i know i will be able to neglect this small issue.

also im still skinny as f**k so i bet the feeling of being small will be even more insignificant when i bulk up, but im very happy with the result already.

I chose to do external only because of better recovery potential and not needing 2 more surgeries, also to save a lot of money and avoid the risk of knee pain. Plating also requires extra money and surgery and i dont think it is reliable enough to try it, especially not at this point when i dont have much time left in frames anyway :p

[Moubgf]

Yeah, im 5'10 or 178 cm during the day (close to 179 in the morning, drops to slightly below 178 in the evening)

And yeah it did cure my height neurosis, although i have to agree with Sweden that it is still common to run into some dudes that dwarf you, but there are more people that are smaller or same size as me when you account for girls, i maybe saw one girl at the hospital who might have been taller than me but it looked like she had some heel. (Karolinska is the name of the hospital and its huge and lots of people around)

Im also slightly bothered by my sitting height which is below average for my height (ca 89 cm) when sitting next to bigger dudes, although it doesnt look bad at all in terms of proportion, my torso looks a good length, i think my low sitting height is because of my thin groin bones. But most people dont sit straight anyway so i know i will be able to neglect this small issue.

also im still skinny as f**k so i bet the feeling of being small will be even more insignificant when i bulk up, but im very happy with the result already.

I chose to do external only because of better recovery potential and not needing 2 more surgeries, also to save a lot of money and avoid the risk of knee pain. Plating also requires extra money and surgery and i dont think it is reliable enough to try it, especially not at this point when i dont have much time left in frames anyway :p

The height i want is 5'11 and maybe 6'0 if my legs can take it. But at 5'11 i don't want to feel discriminated anymore from society, that wont happen once i reach 5'10ish status right?

Yeah there is always gonna be dudes that are 6'4. Just like you are not gonna have the best body or face. But the "height" problem is gone so you are in the game again do you feel that now? like you can compete and actually get somewhere in life or are you still limited by your stature, like still psychologically hindered.

yeah i noticed that too with friends it's like they are overall massiver than me. But not by much. I and a 6'1ish friend was sitting on the floor or whatever together and his look when he noticed we was pretty much the same height mind f**ked him alot. Like he realised his Bigness is tributed by his legs and not his "massive" alpha frame. We smaller guys have a more gracefull waist bones and stuff like that. So we look more elegant than those taller clumsier people with a thick waist. But they do get another 4 cm increase from that though.

But are not the outtake of the inserted rod for free? if it costs money how much do you think it was?
Also you don't have to take away the rod at all you can leave it in there.

[Wannabegiant]

The height i want is 5'11 and maybe 6'0 if my legs can take it. But at 5'11 i don't want to feel discriminated anymore from society, that wont happen once i reach 5'10ish status right?

Yeah there is always gonna be dudes that are 6'4. Just like you are not gonna have the best body or face. But the "height" problem is gone so you are in the game again do you feel that now? like you can compete and actually get somewhere in life or are you still limited by your stature, like still psychologically hindered.

yeah i noticed that too with friends it's like they are overall massiver than me. But not by much. I and a 6'1ish friend was sitting on the floor or whatever together and his look when he noticed we was pretty much the same height mind f**ked him alot. Like he realised his Bigness is tributed by his legs and not his "massive" alpha frame. We smaller guys have a more gracefull waist bones and stuff like that. So we look more elegant than those taller clumsier people with a thick waist. But they do get another 4 cm increase from that though.

But are not the outtake of the inserted rod for free? if it costs money how much do you think it was?
Also you don't have to take away the rod at all you can leave it in there.

Yeah you ure right, i dont feel phychologically hindered anymore, i feel like there are so many hobbies and stuff i want to try now when i know i wont be judged right away for my height. Also just knowing that probably 40% more girls are within my options now is awesome.

Im gonna train MMA and  bulk up as mentioned. Then im going to be overall more active in social events and take my studies more seriously. Then soon enough i will aim for that perfect 1 trophy girl (lol il probably be satisfied with an 8 but i might get luckier than that), Ive scored with 8s and above but very rarely, and in my case they have never wanted anything serious lol..most likely because they thought i didnt have enough social value.

I feel like i can become one of those people in the upper social circle, of course excluding famous people who are unreachable unless i made it somehow (unlikely since so many of my youthful years where wasted on being being a nobody, its hard to catch up and go further)

At 5'10 i doubt anyone will call you short unless its a by 6'4 dude or you live in the netherlands where girls might have expectations of a 6 feet guy minimum.

LON or LATN are generally a lot more expensive than external only, and the place i went too only offers external only, and for that "low" price you wont be able to get LON or LATN. I also dont want anything left in my bones, i want to be as close to normal as possible when this is done, even if you dont feel the rods, me knowing they are there will still affect me.

[Moubgf]

How do your tibia feel now compared to the rest of your body, is it obvious?.

Also when you stand up do you feel more empowered like..on your way up from couch.... (up)..fk yeaah!.

[Wannabegiant]

How do your tibia feel now compared to the rest of your body, is it obvious?.

Also when you stand up do you feel more empowered like..on your way up from couch.... (up)..f**k yeaah!.

My tibia actually looks quite natural still, sure its a bit long but it doesnt look odd in anyway, and its still significantly shorter than my femurs. I agree with medium drink of water that longish tibias look aesthetically pleasing, my legs look kind of badass now actually, like they where shaped to be optimal for muay thai lol. At least with shorts on, without shorts, my thighs get exposed and i havent regained all the muscle there yet so it looks a bit weak at the moment..


well i dont notice really that i am taller when im just walking around, i got used to it so fast (and i didnt notice it much when lengthening since it is such a slow pace we lengthen at)

Only when i look at my family, and other people when i am outside do i feel a big difference, also when looking in the mirror i look bigger than i used to, and its an awesome feeling, especially when i imagine all the muscle im going to gain later. (its interesting that just by getting a bit taller, the whole bodyframe appears to be bigger even though it technically isnt)

Its also great because it improved my proportions, and it will make me look way better in pretty much all kinds of clothes compared to before. before LL i didnt bother with any of this stuff, its like i unlocked a new character in a fighting game and im super excited to try to learn all the tricks and stuff.

[Wannabegiant]

Big Update:

Okey so here are the x-rays from yesterday, my local doctor told me it looked really good, and that my right leg is almost ready to lose some of the pins (while still keeping the frame on to prevent bending) while my left leg needs another month or a little more before its ready.

It makes sense that my left leg is lagging behind a bit, because of my knee injury from my childhood (shlatters disease) i couldnt put as much weight on that leg from the beginning, however it feels pretty much as strong and mobile as my right leg since about 2 weeks ago, my left knee doest hurt anymore when putting lots of pressure on it anymore. I also added 1.5 mm to my left leg because i could feel that there was a slight discrepancy, its natural to have a few mm difference between legs and i had 3 mm shorter left leg before my surgery. They told me at the russian clinic that they corrected this but im not sure they did completely, it feels more symmetrical after i added 1.5 mm at least.

He told me to ask my russian doctor about their opinion first before deciding anything, and im expecting them to be more reserved and maybe tell me that i need 3 months more (sadface). I have a friend who will translate an email for me to russian so they will understand what my local doctor thought.

My personal opinion from just looking at the x-rays: im no expert at all but they look decent, they dont look very solid compared to the surrounding bone but its probably not supposed to at this point, im afraid that they might shrink if i do anything to early, i think waiting another month for both legs before even loosening some screws might be more safe, with the frames on they cannot bend, but i dont want to risk any subsidence/shrinkage either.

I also dont really like how the callus is shaping on my right leg, it seems like it is slightly indented on one side while the other side of it is looking much thicker than before the surgery, it doesnt look balanced, im hoping the indented gap will fill in eventually, at least the indentation looks smaller compared to my x-rays i had in May. They didnt say anything about it in Russia and neither did my local doctor, so maybe it isnt a problem, but i would have a problem mentally with it if it ended up looking like that permanently, because it doesnt look as stable as it should imo.

Please tell me what you think of these:

edit: im having a problem uploading the pics, will get back to it as soon as i learn how to fix it, the system cant access my attachment path or something, dont know why..

[Wannabegiant]

x-rays:

[paco1]

Your callus looks like very good.

[just_me]

Wannabegiants, Your legs (X-rays) look very good - congratulation. You had your surgery in April and you write that you now can walk without aid but what about stairs - can you walk up and down the stairs without aid from anyone or anything now? 

[Wannabegiant]

Wannabegiants, Your legs (X-rays) look very good - congratulation. You had your surgery in April and you write that you now can walk without aid but what about stairs - can you walk up and down the stairs without aid from anyone or anything now?

No my surgery was Mars 01, and yes walking up stairs was possible on my own after about 2 months after surgery, but i had to use my arms a lot and on the way down i kind of scooted down on my butt one step at a time. Now i barely need to use my arms for the stairs but i do anyway in case i would trip.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Wow.  I just plain could not do stairs while I had my frames on.  I didn't have the leg strength to do it.

[YellowSpike]

its like i unlocked a new character in a fighting game and im super excited to try to learn all the tricks and stuff.

The inner nerd in me lol'd big time from this

[Sweden]

Jasså du går nere vid Solna. Hade din läkare sett detta innan?

Anyway, it looks alright. I'm impressed too that you dared to go up stairs and the fact you managed to. Great.

I think you need the device at least 1-2 more months. You will be in a world of regret if you remove them too early and your legs break.

Cool half ring frame you got there.

[just_me]

Wannabegiants, Great that you could manage the stairs so early.
Regarding your times in Ilizarov frames on your legs. Have you in all this times noticed at any times any small craking sounds coming from your Ilizarov frames when you stand and start to walk.
With Ilizarov frames like yours is it a big problem if one have small craking sound coming from the Ilizarov frames time to time when you stand up and begin to walk several times during the whole times in the Ilizarov frames?

[Wannabegiant]

Jasså du går nere vid Solna. Hade din läkare sett detta innan?

Anyway, it looks alright. I'm impressed too that you dared to go up stairs and the fact you managed to. Great.

I think you need the device at least 1-2 more months. You will be in a world of regret if you remove them too early and your legs break.

Cool half ring frame you got there.

Japp Solna ligger rätt nära från där jag bor.. Du menar om min läkare från Ryssland har sett röntgen bilderna än? Jag har skickat dem till honom men det är helg så lär få vänta på svar till nästa vecka.

Thank you man! Well it was neccessary, and it made life much easier when i could change floors on my own to get stuff.

I agree, im gonna be very careful here, at least 2 months more, but i might remove a few pins slightly earlier while keeping the frame as that will make the consolidation even faster, but it depends on what Bagirovs thinks too.

[Wannabegiant]

Wannabegiants, Great that you could manage the stairs so early.
Regarding your times in Ilizarov frames on your legs. Have you in all this times noticed at any times any small craking sounds coming from your Ilizarov frames when you stand and start to walk.
With Ilizarov frames like yours is it a big problem if one have small craking sound coming from the Ilizarov frames time to time when you stand up and begin to walk several times during the whole times in the Ilizarov frames?

Hmm no i dont think so, some times before when my knees where stiff there would be noises coming from them occassionally when i tried to walk etc, but it stopped happening a long while ago. The frames themselves havent made any noise though..

[Wannabegiant]

Wow.  I just plain could not do stairs while I had my frames on.  I didn't have the leg strength to do it.

Maybe its harder to do it with the internal nail inside, at least initially since im guessing the trauma to the legs would be worse with the LON surgery.

[just_me]

Wannabegiants, You say that you maybe will remove some of the pins before you remove your frames. Can you please show/tell by referring to your very good X-ray pictures where these pins is placed that can be removed before you remove your frames?

[Wannabegiant]

Wannabegiants, You say that you maybe will remove some of the pins before you remove your frames. Can you please show/tell by referring to your very good X-ray pictures where these pins is placed that can be removed before you remove your frames?

Im not sure since he didnt tell me what pins he will remove (i didnt ask for specifics at the time) But im guessing he will remove the middle pins that are right under the knee, (i guess he removes 2 or 3 of them, keeping the outer ones and the thick one in the lower half ring. He probably doesnt remove any of the ankle pins before its done.

Btw i want to add, that Dr Bagirov also actually does this method of removing some pins at an earlier date before the frame removal.
I didnt know about it since he hadnt mentioned it before but he did it to another patient which i have contact with.

Its not optimal to do it with him if you are a foreign patient though, as you would either have to fly back and forth several more times or stay at the hospital again for an extended period of time which would be expensive, or rent some apartment in Moscow.

[Wannabegiant]

Small update:

Dr Bagirov thought it was a bit to early to remove some pins, didnt give me an estimate how long i have left though. I expected this and intend to be careful. He knows about this stuff better than the local orthopedic, but at the same time its hard to get concrete answers from him, since he is mainly talking through his assistant. He did say that the bone healing looked very good though.

I think i have at most 3 months left until im completely done with the frames, so not to bad. My lower leg muscles have regained so much of their strength now that the frames feel very light when walking and moving. Recovery goes very fast it seems when lengthening smaller than average ammounts.

[yudha]

hi wannabegiants...i read your diary and you mentioned that you prescribed blood thinning pills...other patient KILOKAHN with dr mangal in india doesnt get it, from what i read on internet blood thinner is required to avoid blood cloth which is a very dangerous complication if occur...i would like to know what kind of blood thinner you'd given and at what cost because i want to go to india for surgery since i can't stand cold weather....i want to ask KILO also why he doesnt given this med by the dr....thanks, i wish you have successful journey...

[Wannabegiant]

hi wannabegiants...i read your diary and you mentioned that you prescribed blood thinning pills...other patient KILOKAHN with dr mangal in india doesnt get it, from what i read on internet blood thinner is required to avoid blood cloth which is a very dangerous complication if occur...i would like to know what kind of blood thinner you'd given and at what cost because i want to go to india for surgery since i can't stand cold weather....i want to ask KILO also why he doesnt given this med by the dr....thanks, i wish you have successful journey...

Hi Yudha, im sorry but i do not know the names of the painkillers i used, since they had russian names and they use a different alphabet. they where included in the daily price for staying at the clinic, and when it was time to go home to continue lengthening, i bought a few packs of them (2 i think) along with lots of other medicines. So i dont know the specific price. But considering how much meds i got for the combined price i dont think they where expensive at all.