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[IwannaBeTaller]

Hello. With all the talk and speculation about growth stunting during puberty because of an "imperfect" lifestyle, which normally means imperfect nutrition or not enough sleep, which is often talked about here, I wondered something else. Can this imperfect lifestyle affect your adult voice? Quite often I notice that while my dad, now in his late fifties, has a quite deep and "strong" voice, while mine is, well, not a "girl's voice", but certainly quite higher and kind of less "masculine". So I wondered if this could have to do with the lifestyle you live during your growth phase? Can imperfect diet, imperfect sleep and imperfect exercise during puberty not only affect your final height but also your adult voice, or is this aspect rather purely dependent on genetics?

[TIBIKE200]

Hello. With all the talk and speculation about growth stunting during puberty because of an "imperfect" lifestyle, which normally means imperfect nutrition or not enough sleep, which is often talked about here, I wondered something else. Can this imperfect lifestyle affect your adult voice? Quite often I notice that while my dad, now in his late fifties, has a quite deep and "strong" voice, while mine is, well, not a "girl's voice", but certainly quite higher and kind of less "masculine". So I wondered if this could have to do with the lifestyle you live during your growth phase? Can imperfect diet, imperfect sleep and imperfect exercise during puberty not only affect your final height but also your adult voice, or is this aspect rather purely dependent on genetics?

Voice has to do with testosterone. Testosterone is known to accelerate the growth plates maturation... If you have low testosterone (and therefore a high estrogen/testosterone ratio) you should have had reached a highier final height. Also, testosterone according to medical literature is responsible for the length of your torso (this is why men with kleineftler syndrome are known to have really long limbs compared to their torso).
  Sleep does not affect testosterone levels... Exercise and nutrition, only to a certain extent

[ouroboros]

  Sleep does not affect testosterone levels...

I was under the impression that sleep did increase your testosterone levels..... How else would you explain morning wood? 

[Deads]

I was under the impression that sleep did increase your testosterone levels..... How else would you explain morning wood? 

Testosterone levels are at their highest in the morning when you first wake up..... I know that sleep induces HGH release, but haven't researched the effect that sleep has on testosterone.

[IwannaBeTaller]

Voice has to do with testosterone. Testosterone is known to accelerate the growth plates maturation... If you have low testosterone (and therefore a high estrogen/testosterone ratio) you should have had reached a highier final height. Also, testosterone according to medical literature is responsible for the length of your torso (this is why men with kleineftler syndrome are known to have really long limbs compared to their torso).
  Sleep does not affect testosterone levels... Exercise and nutrition, only to a certain extent

So is that a yes or no to my initial question? Would my voice be lower if I had had better nutrition, done more sports, etc. in my teenage years?

[TIBIKE200]

So is that a yes or no to my initial question? Would my voice be lower if I had had better nutrition, done more sports, etc. in my teenage years?

Not to my knowledge... I was a couch potatoe during my teenage years yet I have a baritone voice

[IwannaBeTaller]

Voice has to do with testosterone. Testosterone is known to accelerate the growth plates maturation... If you have low testosterone (and therefore a high estrogen/testosterone ratio) you should have had reached a highier final height.

Another question, if this is the case, why are men taller than women? Men after all have much higher testosterone levels then women, so their growth plates should close faster than women's?

[Jack1066]

High testosterone signals your body to stop growing, because as you reach the last stage of puberty your testosterone levels increase.

That's partly why people who start puberty early typically don't grow quite as much as those who start later.

I was a couch potato as well, I have quite a deep baritone voice.

Exercise and so on, I think it all helps but it has quite a negligible effect, not enough to be worried about. We haven't stunted our growth, I used to think that but I read up on it (and I spent my late teens as a messed up druggy and in my early teens didn't eat enough). Stunted growth literally means you were malnourished or anorexic.

[IwannaBeTaller]

High testosterone signals your body to stop growing, because as you reach the last stage of puberty your testosterone levels increase.

I just don't understand - if testosterone can accelerate growth plate maturation, why are men taller than women? Why are many high T men tall? The big American high school football players you can think of - square jaw, narrow eyes, built like a tank. Why are some of them 6'3'' and over, if their high T levels accelerate growth plates closing? Is it because testosterone isn't the only aspect influencing height?

[CaptainAmerica]

I just don't understand - if testosterone can accelerate growth plate maturation, why are men taller than women? Why are many high T men tall? The big American high school football players you can think of - square jaw, narrow eyes, built like a tank. Why are some of them 6'3'' and over, if their high T levels accelerate growth plates closing? Is it because testosterone isn't the only aspect influencing height?

The aromatase enzyme is responsible for converting excess testosterone to estrogen. Broscience, but I personally believe that this is one of the major ways in how height is "inherited." (An overractive aromatase enzyme that produces lots of estrogen, thus leading to early growth plate fusion).

What I've personally observed is that a lot of the "freakishly" tall people, over 6'1-6'2, have very long, low-T faces and odd body shapes.

And, again, anecdotally for me, the most "high-T" looking men I've observed have usually been 5'8'-5'9, very strong brow-ridges, jawlines, wide faces, etc...

And I think this is where the myth of "weightlifting" stunting height comes from. Young 13-14 year old guys lift weights -> generate lots of testosterone -> estrogen -> growth plates fuse. As well as the myth of "masturbation" (as high T guys are more frequent to fap, so someone who jacked off a lot probably thinks they fused their growth plates early).

I'm rambling at this point, but this is why I also think growth can be stunted by as much as 2-3 inches. Say you spend ages 13-16 not sleeping very well, so you don't produce much GH or IGF-1. Well guess what, your body doesn't gaf. It's still going to keep pumping out testosterone that will eventually turn into estrogen and close your growth plates. You could argue that testosterone would also lower if you don't get much sleep, but it's nowhere near as dramatic as the amount of HGH you would miss out on.

[Jack1066]

XD I personally have the belief that 5'8 is the *perfect* male height (society just has the retarded ideals). It's no coincidence, for example, that Johnny Depp is exactly the same height as me. The looks come as a package with the height. :-)

And yeah, you're right. In real life most of the tallest guys I know look pretty feminine. I know some pretty masculine looking 6'0-6'1 guys though. And sometimes you do see the odd 6'3 beast, but it's more unusual than waifish looking (typically young) very tall guys.

There is other stuff influencing height I am sure of it but I don't know. Yeah, CaptainAmerica was right, it's actually basically estrogen that fuses your growth plates, but that's because of testosterone levels.

[Jack1066]

We don't really know how much height is influenced by environment yet. Some say as low as 10% some say as high as 40%, but even the 40% would probably only mean an inch or so. I wouldn't say 3 inches though. I mean unless your body has to shut down because it's in survival mode, it will continue to grow until your growth plates fuse, just at a slower rate if you are taking drugs or not sleeping enough for example. That's why it's so hard to stunt your growth.

I'm sure it could be possible, by doing everything right (or wrong), to gain or lose an inch. I could perhaps see 2 inches of difference there. But I think that's kind of unlikely. Overall I'm pretty sure almost all of us here have reached around our full potential heights unless we had hormone problems or were malnourished or something.

[CaptainAmerica]

We don't really know how much height is influenced by environment yet. Some say as low as 10% some say as high as 40%, but even the 40% would probably only mean an inch or so. I wouldn't say 3 inches though. I mean unless your body has to shut down because it's in survival mode, it will continue to grow until your growth plates fuse, just at a slower rate if you are taking drugs or not sleeping enough for example. That's why it's so hard to stunt your growth.

I'm sure it could be possible, by doing everything right (or wrong), to gain or lose an inch. I could perhaps see 2 inches of difference there. But I think that's kind of unlikely. Overall I'm pretty sure almost all of us here have reached around our full potential heights unless we had hormone problems or were malnourished or something.

Idk man. I'm personally the shortest male in my entire family (5'4.5). But my parents were also the shortest in there's at (5'6 and 5'2). I did spend a LOT of my adolescence stressing and not sleeping over my parents' divorce though, and my diet was awful.

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

I was sleeping tons and eating like a truck but i'm the shortest male in the family.

When comparing to my uncles that are 6'8 and they were living in times when my grandparents had almost nothing... idk.

[CaptainAmerica]

I was sleeping tons and eating like a truck but i'm the shortest male in the family.

When comparing to my uncles that are 6'8 and they were living in times when my grandparents had almost nothing

Damn. I do know 5'3 and 5'2 dudes who were really athletic and sleeping well as teens. lol I guess I just want to refuse the reality of this being my genetically determined height. The doctor always told me I'd be tall cause I had long legs growing up, dad thought so too. I just feel very awkward and stunted.

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

You aren't the only one, i was whole childhood in the 70-80 percentile of height. I had prediction range from 5'9 to even 6'7 but i stopped growing at my 12 birthday and finished 5'5.

[CaptainAmerica]

You aren't the only one, i was whole childhood in the 70-80 percentile of height. I had prediction range from 5'9 to even 6'7 but i stopped growing at my 12 birthday and finished 5'5.

Holy crap. Sounds like that good old aromatase enzyme was your downfall. If I was you I'd spend the rest of my life huddled in a lab zapping those bastards.

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

Well theoretically my uncles/dad hit their final grow spurts around 20-23yo but i highly doubt that i will grow even an inch.

[CaptainAmerica]

Well theoretically my uncles/dad hit their final grow spurts around 20-23yo but i highly doubt that i will grow even an inch.

Lol at least take some melatonin. Since running Ibutamoren my moms said I look taller even though I think I've only grown maybe half an inch at most (I now hit my head on this lamp post I used to be able to slide a finger on top of my head between in the morning). Just an inch would be a lot if you eventually plan on doing LL anyway.

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

Well you need to have money, health and time for LL and i currently have none of these things.

I don't really need melatonin, my hypothyroidism already makes me sleepy af

[CaptainAmerica]

Well you need to have money, health and time for LL and i currently have none of these things.

I don't really need melatonin, my hypothyroidism already makes me sleepy af

Damn sorry to hear that. I've always thought of myself having hypo as well just cause I have odd dry skin and weird lines on my nails but I doubt it.

If your thyroid is truly the issue then this means that your enzyme may be okay and you may have a similar growth pattern to your dad and uncles who stopped at 20-23. If I was use I'd blast some roids to get that puppy pumping out HGH. Hexarelin+CJC-1295. I'm just trying to help man.

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

I get it that you are trying to help, i'm just explaining my situation.

When i checked my wrist x-ray year ago it was already fused so as i said, i highly doubt that i will grow anymore.

And i don't have money for any hormones/steroids. Month cycle of HGH will cost me 4/5 of my current salary and i have many other expenses.

Tbh first thing i will do if i had the money would be fixing my leg finally. Literally as i'm writing this i've already eaten a lot of ketoprofenum so i can ease the pain and finally go to sleep.

[IwannaBeTaller]

We don't really know how much height is influenced by environment yet. Some say as low as 10% some say as high as 40%, but even the 40% would probably only mean an inch or so. I wouldn't say 3 inches though. I mean unless your body has to shut down because it's in survival mode, it will continue to grow until your growth plates fuse, just at a slower rate if you are taking drugs or not sleeping enough for example. That's why it's so hard to stunt your growth.

I don't quite understand how the 10%, 40%, etc. calculation works. You say it could be 40%, but 40% of someone's height is easily 70 centimetres. Nobody stunts their growth by that much. 10% of 5'11'' are also 7 whole inches. So when we say that environmental factors contribute 20% of height, and I've had the worst environment possible, how much did that stunt growth?

Sorry just confused about that percentage stuff ever since I saw it.

I'm rambling at this point, but this is why I also think growth can be stunted by as much as 2-3 inches. Say you spend ages 13-16 not sleeping very well, so you don't produce much GH or IGF-1.

I personally don't believe this one since at least in America, most teens don't sleep enough. This has been reported several times by studies. So if that were true, most Americans would have stunted their growth by that much, which I don't believe.

[Jack1066]

The 10%, 40% thing as far as I remember is just how much your height can vary based on environment on top of genetics.

As far as I remember this variability is calculated off the average height.

So, say a 174 cm guy in Holland is 6 cm off the average, and the average is 180 cm, if his genetic heritability was 80% (varies from person to person), 80% of this deviation from the average might be explained by genetics and 20% by nutrition and environment. Which would mean his maximum genetic "potential" was 175.2 cm but he only reached 174 due to poor nutrition.

80% is considered the average heritability for white males. I worked out once I could have been about half an inch or an inch taller myself based on that, but then again I'm not sure as my dad has always claimed 5'8, my height, but I am pretty sure I am already 1.5-2 inches taller than him (he is 60 though so I assume he's shrunk an inch or so, maybe even more by now). And as I said I did practically everything I could to stunt my growth in my teens.

I think this is all really situationally dependant though. Short people can have tall parents and families and tall people can have short parents. Random genetic mutations happen.

[CaptainAmerica]

I personally don't believe this one since at least in America, most teens don't sleep enough. This has been reported several times by studies. So if that were true, most Americans would have stunted their growth by that much, which I don't believe.

ches).

Well, every person I've met who was taller than their parents by 3-4 inches. They all sleep 12 inches every night and always talk about how much they sleep and how badly they "need it." This is anecdotal.

I checked statistics. I've always felt that Aussies were taller than Americans, (just from tourists I've seen), but it turns out that their average also lingers around ~5'9-5'10 which makes sense since both are pred. WASP.

Germans are ~1 inch taller but it hasn't always been this way. Americans were taller when facing the Nazis off in WW2. And Germany has a very-involved social system for raising children/adolescents. I also couldn't find any studies on German sleeping habits.

Overall, I refuse to believe that sleeping ~2-3 hours less than average couldn't have a significant affect on height. It just doesn't make sense, you just won't be exposed to the same amount as HGH as someone who does, but you will both have growth plates that fuse. The difference could be negligible, maybe an inch or two at MAX but it would *have* to exist.

[IwannaBeTaller]

The 10%, 40% thing as far as I remember is just how much your height can vary based on environment on top of genetics.

As far as I remember this variability is calculated off the average height.

So, say a 174 cm guy in Holland is 6 cm off the average, and the average is 180 cm, if his genetic heritability was 80% (varies from person to person), 80% of this deviation from the average might be explained by genetics and 20% by nutrition and environment. Which would mean his maximum "potential" was 175.2 cm but he only reached 174 due to poor nutrition.

80% is considered the average heritability for white males. I worked out once I could have been about half an inch or an inch taller myself, but then again I'm not sure as my dad has always claimed 5'8 but I am pretty sure I am already 1.5-2 inches taller than him (he is 60 though so I assume he's shrunk an inch or so by now). And as I said I did practically everything I could to stunt my growth in my teens.

I think this is all really situationally dependant though. Short people can have tall parents and families and tall people can have short parents. Random genetic mutations happen.

That's a weird way of calculation since your body doesn't know what the average height is. A kid with short parents could have the best development years possible, optimal nutrition, optimal sleep, optimal exercise, but still be under the average height, and therefore is supposed to have stunted his growth. Wouldn't a better calculation be to take the calculated height (dads height + moms height), because that one is more telling of the individual?

I'm just rambling here and it's 3 am, but let's say I'm 171 My calculated height, based on my parent's height, would have been about 177. 20% of that difference is 1.2 cm. So my bad lifestyle would only have affected my growth by that much, correct?

They all sleep 12 inches every night

LOL! I'm off to bed, good night ya.

[Jack1066]

Yeah, I agree it's not perfect, mostly because you can't tell what heritability you have and averages are kind of bull  when it comes to the individual. Then again, I'm gona contradict myself and say I think there's something to it because "regression to the mean" in terms of looks and height does exist, so in that sense it's quite a sensible way of calculating this. But basically I'm gona contradict myself again and say all that stuff is junk really haha and you can't ever tell what height you would have ideally been and anyway, what's the point of it?

As far as I remember yes, averaging the parent's height and adding a little bit is the way it's normally done. I got 5'9 for myself when I did both, not sure if that's just a coincidence.

I'm going to bed too, lol.

Yep, 1.2 cm sounds right.

[Moubgf]

Height is linked to a few things..sunlight, jumping up and down generating hgh..bone growth. Sleep 8 hours 4 hours of deep sleep.(sleep after 24.00 Does not count.)

Then we have genetics & epigenetics.

Every man your mom fked has their Cum dna inside of her. The one that was her first (virgin night) gets a premade position in the determined holographic structure of the first offspring. So if the first one was 5'8. Your first son is gonna have 5'8 MALE chart height + Moms existing height.

The second child is gonna get more of the current bf genes. So if he is 6'0 that is gonna be his chart height + - moms height.

Now epigenetics are your mind/mental * perceptional * emotional cercetry?) The loop you find yourself in during growth years. And this is also tied to insecurity. Single household families or one parent is not the real dad/mom the boys grow more taller because of unconcious/sunconcious facuilties..the same goes for feeling inferior and lack of something percieved as fight or flight* responsible. This will trigger the body to grow further and bigger to what it *perceptionally* percieves to be a threat in the exterior world.

So maybe you had a social group growing up all very similiar in thoughts and action. Then one of you stops for example doing the daily (schedual) that the others was doing (move to different city) (stops playing football bcus meh) (stops watching wwe raw 7 o clock everynight emulating moves in your bedroom with your friend* generating bone growth btw*) (you get to secured in yourself growing up, many girls dig you..start mastrubating loosing protein synthesis to grow) (big social circle so you dont percieve unconcoiusly need to grow body to remove inferiority emotional (section, in your dna "switch"..so body stops growing bcus you already set.

^^ you get the point. Anything that diverted you from the group hive mind growing up)

You might say i did all these things..plss just stfu you missed one of the big elements needed to grow wether it was external or internal processes. Im a prime example. Did everything my friends did until 13. Was bang on average all time growing up. Then i stopped growing when i switched habbits. Dead on. They kept on growing to average height some hit tall..but no one was short like me. 100% sure of that

Thats why you see kids much taller these days because of inferiority complex starting way younger and in more precise subconcious forms. That and the Animal speed up the chicken growth hormon that gives them a unnatural boost in size aswell.

Anything else anyone says ooh this is 80% genetics...hes right...its 80% your hologram and 20% your external and internal world sewing together so that the organism can survive its surroundings during its 18 years of decoding information.

I

[CaptainAmerica]

^ I have a a pretty open mind when it comes to things like bone growth because i feel like it's tough to study accurately and the medical community is far behind, but some of the psychological things you are proposing are really out there but interesting and I'd like to read more if you could pass some links.

When I was 13 got my first girlfriend. Me and my best friends were identically 5'2. Then I stopped hanging out with them and spent 13-17 mostly with that girl. Guess what? When I started hanging out with them again, they had both gotten identically to 6' lol. Meanwhile I got to 5'4. Aside from just the diversion from the "hive mind" I feel like being horny 24/7 from always being around her and having sex all the time may have really bumped up my test and caused early growth plates fusion, but that's a long shot.

My dad also left home at 15 to travel for a year and he's the shortest in is family. My uncle is 6'2.

I don't really believe what you're saying but it's interesting food for thought.

[Moubgf]

Somehow you became too secure somehow and the dna switch didnt get activates. Aint no man growing only to 5'4 normally. Just does not happen. That is a stunted height. But..but it might be what you where suppost to be. Bcus of hologram blueprint. But depends or your moms lovers and your dada height.

I searched different sections..we had giants roaming the earth 1000 generations ago. What was that anomaly for example.. so im certain im correct in my study/thesis on height growth.

China boy lives in canada...china boy does exactly what white boys do..dont even know he china boy..china boy gonna grow 3+ inches over his charted height. Might be 5'6 instead of 5'2...might be 5'10 instead of 5'6 depends on his hologram blueprint mapfile..but china boy gonna grow.

Just check out this for yourself. Our vessels contain the same prospects animal (maintenance creatures for natural cycles of change..and we eat them..wtf. moo cow made to eat grass..we kill them..so now we have to eat grass instead..idiot hybrid new-man..i mean human..so sorry.)
Contain the same bs that animals do..so ofcourse we gonna see same projectory in comparement.

[Jack1066]

Sorry man I really can't read all of that but the science sounds absolutely wack.. can you link any proof that women absorb the dna of all the men they sleep with lol