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[TomD]

If Christian had been upfront about the fact he wants to sell good products (and he could reasonably vouch for the internals he personally had done to himself) , I would be completely onboard with that.

I would even look into it personally, even though it would be too pricy for me.

He uses the old forum  site as some kind of personal wealth tool instead of trying to help us. The idea of banning anyone and everyone who 'cuts his grass' to me is myopic and childish. It crosses a line of ridiculous.

He obviously knows nothing about how business relationships work. He burns all his bridges.

[7cmwithsarin]

Hey guys, just wanted to let everyone know that everything Daemon has posted is accurate to the best of my knowledge. Glad someone decided to make and moderate an alternative to old forum , this is something that myself and captain and stewarthayes had been talking since we learned how corrupt Sysop was.

Gj Daemon.

[TomD]

We are just getting started buddy. We are going to snag all of the patient diaries from old forum  and copy the forum outlay.

But instead we are going to have a 'hands off' approach to the diaries. We can have a complaints section where guys can rant all they want if they back it up with personal experience.

We have no desire to steer anyone anywhere. We are short guys who want to have a safe surgery at a reasonable price.

 

[TomD]

old forum  has the right to the posts. We arent stealing the posts. We are COPYING them. The words belong to old forum . The actual concepts and thoughts belong to the patient and to anyone who reads it.

The patient could sue if we tried to SELL it and we made a profit which of course we would never do. We arent sysop .

[TomD]

All the power to you orlandoflorida. 

If they are your posts, you can ask for them to be taken down.

I am talking about someone like me who has no diary. I dont think sysop has any legal right of financial compensation if I copy the diaries to be used here. Only the patient like yourself could complain.

[FrankGarrett]

Those diaries are the intellectual property of the authors - it's their life they're writing about. In order to copyright something, you have to physically contact your local copyright office an officially copyright them - something SysOp obviously didn't do because I doubt they'd let him, you would need the permission of the authors to copyright them and that obviously didn't happen.

SysOp seems to think that they're copyrighted automatically because he's the owner of the site and everything posted on it belongs to him. That's not how copyright works and that's not how the internet works, either. He also seems to think that American law applies to international issues, which it doesn't, though, a lot of Americans seems to have the same mentality.

There's basically fúck-all SysOp can do about us copying the diaries. I wanted to tell him this outright on his forum, but I fear the banhammer will strike me down. Not to worry, I have several accounts on old forum  

[threenoted]

I'm glad I was able to find this forum. I stopped posting on old forum  recently because sysop is incredibly shady. He's obviously making money from these doctors. Why else would someone buy a forum? Is he doing it out of the goodness of his heart? No.
The site doesn't even have ads, so it can only make money through advertising doctors. This means that sysop and his gang have an incentive to distort the truth about some of these hack doctors. What a sick and twisted  . Now I'm doubting whether I'll ever get this surgery...everything I've read on old forum  these last couple years just aren't trustworthy and I'm really sad.

[Need2BTaller]

I'm glad I was able to find this forum. I stopped posting on old forum  recently because sysop is incredibly shady. He's obviously making money from these doctors. Why else would someone buy a forum? Is he doing it out of the goodness of his heart? No.
The site doesn't even have ads, so it can only make money through advertising doctors. This means that sysop and his gang have an incentive to distort the truth about some of these hack doctors. What a sick and twisted  . Now I'm doubting whether I'll ever get this surgery...everything I've read on old forum  these last couple years just aren't trustworthy and I'm really sad.

Don't let those jerks bug you with their crazy antics.  There have been successful surgeries way before SysOpotheosis took over.  His problem is his greed and misdirections of advice to many members.  Members here have enough knowledge and research to carryout in finding good and competent surgeons who can fulfill many of our dreams. 

[threenoted]

Don't let those jerks bug you with their crazy antics.  There have been successful surgeries way before SysOpotheosis took over.  His problem is his greed and misdirections of advice to many members.  Members here have enough knowledge and research to carryout in finding good and competent surgeons who can fulfill many of our dreams.

I truly hope so, but it's hard to believe/trust anything anymore. I've never felt this kind of disappointment before.
How do we know that old forum , the previous admin, didn't whore out to doctors or falsify diaries as well?

[KiloKAHN]

I truly hope so, but it's hard to believe/trust anything anymore. I've never felt this kind of disappointment before.
How do we know that old forum , the previous admin, didn't whore out to doctors or falsify diaries as well?

It's a possibility, but that doesn't mean that 100% of what you read is bs. Read essays and medical articles about leg lengthening from legit surgeons experienced in the subspecialty of Ilizarov surgeries, find tips on physiotherapy that have worked for people who have undergone the procedure, but most importantly, when you decide to go through with the surgery you should have a consultation with as many doctors or your first choice doctors. Ask them as many questions as possible and look for any red flags, i.e. the doctor says complications hardly ever happen, surgery is simple, etc.

[Need2BTaller]

The previous Admin was also a douche in that he wouldn't hesitate to ban a member if he didn't like them.  But in my opinion that is it.  He looked at LL as more of a socializing network, rather than a business venue (Though he did write that book in which I never purchased).  The past members gave full written diaries with the good and bad with no censorship.   Even had bad diaries written by members who were screwed by their docs with no censorship.  The current old forum  as of now is nothing but censorship.  SysOpotheosis goes to as far as creating fake diaries, censor, edit, and delete any posts trying to reveal his true motive.  Any member who has at least a half a brain and speaks up to this gets banned.

[Need2BTaller]

With that being said, Admin whenever you di have the time, it would really be nice to tranafer as many viable information in old forum  and structure it over here.  That way, new members wouldn't be as lost when embarking into this new forum  .

[KiloKAHN]

The previous Admin was also a douche in that he wouldn't hesitate to ban a member if he didn't like them.  But in my opinion that is it.  He looked at LL as more of a socializing network, rather than a business venue (Though he did write that book in which I never purchased).  The past members gave full written diaries with the good and bad with no censorship.   Even had bad diaries written by members who were screwed by their docs with no censorship.  The current old forum  as of now is nothing but censorship.  SysOpotheosis goes to as far as creating fake diaries, censor, edit, and delete any posts trying to reveal his true motive.  Any member who has at least a half a brain and speaks up to this gets banned.

The way Sysopotheosis runs old forum  is very similar to the way this pyramid scheme business next door to my office runs their business. They are constantly going through new employees because they prey on the naive young people straight out of college and tell them that they can be millionaires, yet they only pay them commission on sales and don't give them an hourly salary. They hold these rallies and pump everyone up to get them all excited about the business, but eventually everyone realizes it's a lot of crap and leaves. I am friends with someone who used to work there and he was telling me that the hiring department only hires people that they don't think are clever enough to pick up on what's really going on. If they feel you're a really smart person during the interview, they never call you back, and if they do hire you but feel you're catching on to what the reality of the job is, they let you go. Similarly, Sysopotheosis is cool with you if you kiss his butt and go along with everything, but as soon as you ask a question based on something suspicious, you get silenced.

[threenoted]

The previous Admin was also a douche in that he wouldn't hesitate to ban a member if he didn't like them.  But in my opinion that is it.  He looked at LL as more of a socializing network, rather than a business venue (Though he did write that book in which I never purchased).  The past members gave full written diaries with the good and bad with no censorship.   Even had bad diaries written by members who were screwed by their docs with no censorship.  The current old forum  as of now is nothing but censorship.  SysOpotheosis goes to as far as creating fake diaries, censor, edit, and delete any posts trying to reveal his true motive.  Any member who has at least a half a brain and speaks up to this gets banned.

Yeah, I remember the other Admin banning people he didn't agree with, but he never deleted their posts IIRC. I've honestly never seen anything like this in any old forum...ever. Sysop is a sociopath. I stopped posting the moment he began saying how his job is to promote LL. That's the shadiest crap I've ever seen. He makes it seem as if he's some humanitarian who bought old forum  out of the goodness of his heart. He bought the forum to make $$, why else would he buy the place? Nobody buys something to lose money. /rant

[somecm]

And Tall? I think he is also earning money to prmote his doctor or doing his second LL for free.

[TomD]

Calic what are your thoughts on

1. Sarin horror stories
2. Dr jamal / jamal nail?
3. censorship from old forum
4. censorship from Sarin?

There arent any Sarin 'horror stories' . That pile of crap Sysopthesis has been shilling has been debunked. There have been issues , but none life threatening and all have been dealt with.

old forum  is a pure sales site to make the guy money. The whole site is geared to steering people to specific doctors. You know that. Everyone knows old forum  is on its way out as outright fraud.

The BBB, police, and other authorities have been alerted to the fraud there. Its just a matter of time and collecting evidence that they wiLL Forumully pretended to be objective when they were making a kickback off steering patients.

Sensorship from old forum  is fraud. The guy thinks he can do whatever he wants .He thinks he can play God by hiding behind a fake name on the internet where nobody can expose his fraud. Unfortunately for him, he has exposed himself to too many people. Its just a matter of time.

I still cant get over the fact , that after all the self serving fraud. The banning of members, the lying about who to steer patients to. The kickbacks for steering. This isnt enough for the guy.

He is so self serving, he has a DONATION BOX for people to give him even more money. Like he is a charity or non profit evoking images of Mother Theresa being so proud.

As for the Jamal nail, I havent heard much about it. I would like to hear more patient testimonials.

[Leonardo2013]

I agree. I followed the old forum for years, and it used to be a very serious and good source of info for future cosmetic leg lengtheners, but now it is just a matter of time for it to go down the drain if SysOp doesn't get his act together and cuts all the bull  -- what a shame!

[Adriano]

I think it is cool Sysop wants to push LL forward but the way he is going about it is wrong. Promoting a fake diary for an inexperienced doctor and removing all traces of Dr. Sarin without any legitimate reason is not right.

I will be surprised if there is any member on this forum who doesn't know he did those 2 things purely for his own benefit.

if u still think Dr Sarin was banned because he was incompetent then u have a lot of growing up to do.

I actually like Apo for what he is doing though...Looking at the bigger picture ( assuming he is trying to bring an internal nail to India) then I expect we will all benefit.

Can u imagine an indian Dr using the Betz nail and allowing his patients to Retun home after 3 weeks from surgery and possibly charging under 35K. this would just be great.  Whether he makes 5K or more from the deal wont bother me.

One of the hardest things about LL is taking  5-8 months off and living in another country.
I have more income and profits to lose by being away for that long than the actual cost of surgery and PT.

The best thing would be to have precise 2 but since he wont benefit from the use of those nails we cant expect any break throughs with that nail in india.

[TomD]

I will be surprised if there is any member on this forum who doesn't know he did those 2 things purely for his own benefit.

if u still think Dr Sarin was banned because he was incompetent then u have a lot of growing up to do.

I actually like Apo for what he is doing though...Looking at the bigger picture ( assuming he is trying to bring an internal nail to India) then I expect we will all benefit.

Can u imagine an indian Dr using the Betz nail and allowing his patients to Retun home after 3 weeks from surgery and possibly charging under 35K. this would just be great.  Whether he makes 5K or more from the deal wont bother me.

'Apo' presented himself as two people. One who did leg lengthening in Europe as a patient. The other ID he poses as an objective  moderator of old forum  . Right off the bat he is lying and not operating in good faith. Its misrepresentation and he can be sued.

Then he booted off good members off his site who caught wind of the fact something was wrong and dared asked him about it. He never even answered them. Just disconnected them from the site. That is the way someone who knows they are doing wrong acts out of pure selfishness.

As for bringing the external to India, we here encourage it to be brought to Russia and China to boot. Not just India where we can make a cut as salesmen. I would strongly prefer there were no 'leg lengthening salesmen' at all. Its too drastic a procedure to start involving subjective motives with conflicts of interests.

Maybe one day but not now. 

[FrankGarrett]

I think it is cool Sysop wants to push LL forward but the way he is going about it is wrong. Promoting a fake diary for an inexperienced doctor and removing all traces of Dr. Sarin without any legitimate reason is not right.

He doesn't want to push leg lengthening forward, he wants to push his nail forward or receive money for allowing doctors to use his website to advertise their businesses. He is driven by nothing but money and greed. Introducing an inexperienced leg lengthening doctor into the fray is counter-productive. Dr. Sringari doesn't know what he doing.

I actually like Apo for what he is doing though...Looking at the bigger picture ( assuming he is trying to bring an internal nail to India) then I expect we will all benefit.

Can u imagine an indian Dr using the Betz nail and allowing his patients to Retun home after 3 weeks from surgery and possibly charging under 35K. this would just be great.  Whether he makes 5K or more from the deal wont bother me.

I'm sure a lot of member wished Dr. Sarin selected the Betz bone, but, unfortunately, that isn't the case. So, guess what happened next? They found an inexperienced hip replacement doctor preform leg lengthening surgery on anyone naive enough to go there. There's like, what, 4 people in the guesthouse? What are the chances of these guys ever walking again? We don't know because Dr. Sringari doesn't have a track record.

SysOp and Crazy+6 know this, but all they care about is money. That does not make them nice guys or likeable people, that makes them scumbags with no regard for anyone's life but their own.

You need to wise up, Adriano, you post some awfully stupid things on here and old forum , you're giving Groove311 a good run for his money.

[Blackhawk]

SysOp and Crazy+6 know this, but all they care about is money. That does not make them nice guys or likeable people, that makes them scumbags with no regard for anyone's life but their own.

I agree, Doucheosis and Crappy +6 are scumbags!!!

You think that if people have gone through LL that they would be genuinely interested in helping others who were like them.  But these guys care more about money than they do about you, and they don't care about things like integrity and honor.

I always wondered why some people were on that site so much and contributed so much.  It makes sense now.  A lot of things make more sense now.

[Adriano]

I always wondered why some people were on that site so much and contributed so much.  It makes sense now.  A lot of things make more sense now.

I didnt know that Syop was Apo untill i saw this forum.

BUT i always knew that who ever owned the website or forum of old forum  was making money of it.

I also knew that all those patients who tend to talk about how great their doctor is have some form of agreement/compensation/reward. Even if i could not tell Apo was syop i knew the two new each other some how and that they were both there to promote betz nails.

There is currently a precise patient in (i think Korea...Walk 6 or something..). His diary is just full of advertsing his doctor. if u think he is doing all that writting out of goodwill then u have been fooled.

You also have members like Tall...well i dont need to go into detail about him.

There is also Stadiometter who seems to be doing some work for the wedbsite for free...Well F that  crap.... that dude is also getting paid by someone.

By saying i like what Apo is doing I was obviously refrerring to him trying to bring expensinve & proven nails to india so patients can use these nails at affordable prices. I am not stupid enough to think that a guy will spend all that time and effort if he did not expect to make money out of it.

In this world, if there is no money on the table NOTHING gets done.
If it was not for his actions many patients would have sacrificed their thighs with external devices and gotten horibbly ruined like carazy + 6.
But guess what,  most have delayed their femur surgeries because we know that he will soon introduce an internal nail in india. He was very close with Sarin but Sarin decided he wanted a bigger cut from this operations.

I think we should be clear on a few things. His INTENT is what i like. It is his METHODS that i do not agree with.
The failure to disclose that he is not doing things for free and use of fake diaries is not good at all.

As for LL, I stand by some one who once said the surgery itself is not that complicated. We can all think of even more dangerous surgeries going on around the world. 
Some Drs like Sinngari do similar prcedures and have a lot of experience. just because they have not done LL for cosmetic reasons does not discredt them.

And wats this thing of always putting down first timers. Yes its very risky but i think the first guinne pig of Singari was that kid who APo/Syoup helped with finances because he could not afford the surgery in the first place.

As far as i can see those 4 patients of Dr Singari appear to be on track for succefull LL. There r many LL docs in india. Just because they have not done it for cosmetic reasons does not mean they should not be given a chance. All experienced LL docs out there once performed their first surgery.

It is good that we have Dr Singari now in india. He will provide competion for Dr Sarin. Dr Sarin's price increased by almost 100% in a few years for no particular reason except he was having a monopoly for cheap LL.

We can Also expect Dr Singari to use betz nails in the near future and put downward pressure on the 35K Dr Sarin is charging for an UNPROVEN nail built with even cheaper material in india.

This is the BIG picture i am talking about. I want internal LL next yr and only Apo at the moment can ensure that i only spend under 40K with a realiable nail.

I am not going to go on and on about how the guy is profiting from alll this. There is nothing for free in this world.

It is also about time we stopped talking about how the guy is scam and all those things. if u ever thought Syoup was pushing LL forward so strangers can benefit while he goes bankrupt then YOU are the fool.

We talk about very interesting things on this forum so lets get back to those conversations.

[kinglee]

hahaha. What the f**k. Thats good we have dr. Shringari in india? Who do not  know about LL. .a few month ago he was a knee and hip replacement surgaon and suddenly he pops up in old forum  .phanton start promiting him that time. Where is phanton now? This is bull sh**t.. The all patient of dr. Shringri are in bad hand ..

[TomD]

I didnt know that Syop was Apo untill i saw this forum.

BUT i always knew that who ever owned the website or forum of old forum  was making money of it.

In other words you deny knowing he was frauding everyone by pretending to be two people. He is also pretending to be an objective moderator when he is making money off sending people to specific doctors. Its called fraud.

You also suggest everyone should know hes making money off the site except he denies that is his intent and puts up a donation box so that we think the site lives off donations. Sorry. This wont do. His actions are FRAUD. Plain and simple. He never even hints he gets any money from the doctors and in fact bans anyone who dares ask him about it.

I also knew that all those patients who tend to talk about how great their doctor is have some form of agreement/compensation/reward. Even if i could not tell Apo was syop i knew the two new each other some how and that they were both there to promote betz nails.

There is no evidence they admit making  money off it and there is no way anyone coming to the site needs to EXPECT some shady deal riddled with kickbacks and other graft.

There is currently a precise patient in (i think Korea...Walk 6 or something..). His diary is just full of adverting his doctor. if u think he is doing all that writting out of goodwill then u have been fooled.

You also have members like Tall...well i dont need to go into detail about him.

There is also Stadiometter who seems to be doing some work for the wedbsite for free...Well F that  crap.... that dude is also getting paid by someone.

There is no way anyone can 'surmise' this . These are all actual patients and egro they would naturally have an opinion on these matters. These are called 'patient testimonials'. To find out they have a financial conflict of interest to pimp these doctors and techniques is not normal and is fraud.

By saying i like what Apo is doing I was obviously refrerring to him trying to bring expensinve & proven nails to india so patients can use these nails at affordable prices. I am not stupid enough to think that a guy will spend all that time and effort if he did not expect to make money out of it.

In this world, if there is no money on the table NOTHING gets done.
If it was not for his actions many patients would have sacrificed their thighs with external devices and gotten horibbly ruined like carazy + 6.
But guess what,  most have delayed their femur surgeries because we know that he will soon introduce an internal nail in india. He was very close with Sarin but Sarin decided he wanted a bigger cut from this operations.

This part of your post tries to suggest the guy is now a HERO of some kind and without him others would be MAIMED and in fact , its Sarin's fault he wanted a bigger cut. The goof doctor should be lucky he gets anything at all.

This is your story?

Apo doesnt need to MAKE A CUT off the  internal nail to be a hero. He does it because he knows the western doctors are overpriced and if he can just get a nail into India, he can make MONEY and the customers will do it because its still cheaper.

Too bad the Indian doctors have NO expertise in this kind of operation. Perhaps that should be taken into consideration too right? Hmmm?

Guess not.

 We keep correcting your false information and all you do is try to repackage it and come at us from a different angle. If you persist you may find yourself banned for being wiLL Forumully belligerent.

 

[KiloKAHN]

I just noticed this on old forum 's site intro written by Sysopotheosis. Had to share it because it gave me a good laugh. The outright lying is shocking. 

[KiloKAHN]

In my opinion, Sysopotheosis trying to push for internals in India actually does way more harm than good. There's a reason why things have to go through government approval to be used first. Sysop is in way over his head when he thinks that old forum  can actually sway government policy and push them to approve a device faster. The only effect Sysop would have is convincing unethical doctors to perform internals under the table before approval has been granted. His pushing is what I believe led Dr. Sarin rush to use the HLN (which of course pissed off Sysop) and the only person to use it got a deep bone infection and his status is currently unknown. Now Sysop invests in other doctors there and we get a hip and knee replacement surgeon posing as a limb lengthening surgeon in Dr. Sringari, who obviously lacks any sort of ethics since he clearly knows Crazy+6 was advertising him as a fake patient and he accepted a mentally unstable person for leg lengthening (the guy who threatened to kill himself if he didn't get someone to sponsor surgery with Dr. Sarin).

[TomD]

I just noticed this on old forum 's site intro written by Sysopotheosis. Had to share it because it gave me a good laugh. The outright lying is shocking. 

I know !!!!

Why do you think i am so pissed off. He makes a direct POINT of telling us he is the male version of Mother Theresa, and then to add insult to injury .........he has a DONATION box for us to give him money.

I dont know if this irates anyone else but it really put the hook in me . To find out the guy is a salesmen steering us to doctors where he can make a cut literally blew me away.

I had no idea there even was such a creepy thing as 'leg lengthening salesman' . Thats why I was so easily duped. I couldnt wrap my head around someone getting a kickback or commission for asking someone to fly half way around the world and break their legs.

[Muse]

- The cost of hosting nowadays is typically $10 a month.  For a forum with only 100+ members daily,  it's not far off that price range.  Feel free to ask any webhosting company to confirm that.

- SMF is a free software with auto spam filters built in, it's hand offs once you get the setting right. Certainly nobody will be spending hours fighting spam as is claimed.   

So.....draw your own conclusions about why Sysop-Apotheosis is asking for Donations.

[TomD]

- The cost of hosting nowadays is typically $10 a month.  For a forum with only 100+ members daily,  it's not far off that price range.  Feel free to ask any webhosting company to confirm that.

- SMF is a free software with auto spam filters built in, it's hand offs once you get the setting right. Certainly nobody will be spending hours fighting spam as is claimed.   

So.....draw your own conclusions about why Sysop-Apotheosis is asking for Donations.

Cuz he is a cheap c*nt 

[KiloKAHN]

I remember there was a contest he held for a free limb lengthening surgery. Well, two contests actually. I know one was to write an essay about why it sucks to be short, which would get you a surgery paid in full for Dr. Sarin. I forgot what the other one was for but it was to get a surgery paid in full for your doctor of choice, IIRC. Thing is you had to pay a few hundred dollars in order to submit your essay. Suddenly the contest got taken off the site and it was as if it didn't exist. I don't remember anything being said about who won or if he was even going through with it. Did he just take the money from submissions and call the whole thing off?

[TomD]

I remember there was a contest he held for a free limb lengthening surgery. Well, two contests actually. I know one was to write an essay about why it sucks to be short, which would get you a surgery paid in full for Dr. Sarin. I forgot what the other one was for but it was to get a surgery paid in full for your doctor of choice, IIRC. Thing is you had to pay a few hundred dollars in order to submit your essay. Suddenly the contest got taken off the site and it was as if it didn't exist. I don't remember anything being said about who won or if he was even going through with it. Did he just take the money from submissions and call the whole thing off?

What??? He made people pay hundreds of dollars to enter a draw?