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[Alu]

Also I just realized you made your inseam to height ratio wrong. It's supposed to be 80/170 not 80/162.

Yeah I can understand those constraints but considering that this is permanent I'd rather have the absolute best proportions between Femurs and Tibia. Also I'm sure you can only measure your tibia and femurs with X-rays

[Madmax_01]

Also I just realized you made your inseam to height ratio wrong. It's supposed to be 80/170 not 80/162.

Yeah I can understand those constraints but considering that this is permanent I'd rather have the absolute best proportions between Femurs and Tibia. Also I'm sure you can only measure your tibia and femurs with X-rays

Ahhhhh... Thanks so much for discovering that error! 

You are right. Maybe one should go that way. Do you have already a specific plan?

[Alu]

Well considering everything I want to get it all done in one go; so Quadrilateral form. I know people constantly say that it's a bit unrealistic but considering my motivation and will I'm going to to do everything I can to get it done.

So in truth I only have 2 options so far: Paley (like Iamready) or M (like Glenn). All things considering, I am leaning Paley, but taking it terms of cost benefit analysis, he's the most expensive option (and one that is arguably not worth it considering my minimal gain of 4 in each segment; total cost would be 170K), but he's one of the most experienced doctors with what seems like good protocol and care in regards to limb lengthening (which is the absolute most important thing for me). I know I can fit a time frame for me to do this in the next 3-4 years, so that's not much a problem. At the same time there are bound to be improvements with the current nails and possibly introduction of new nails that give a better experience.

[Madmax_01]

I see. You seem like you have figured out what you want.
Does Quadrilateral LL require a specific preparation process? And do you think it is do-able in the same time frame, as bilateral? (f.e. 4 cm each in one month)

[Alu]

QL is basically the same preparation as bilateral: with the preparation of more pain to boot.

As for the time frame, I'm still trying to figure that out; I would assume it would be very different since tibia and femurs regenerate at different rates from what I've seen.

[Madmax_01]

Do you guys think that going from 5'4'' to 5'7'' will make a difference in ones life? I sometimes think that being 5'7'' would still feel being short, and I am not quite sure if this would "cure" my height neurosis.

[KiloKAHN]

Do you guys think that going from 5'4'' to 5'7'' will make a difference in ones life? I sometimes think that being 5'7'' would still feel being short, and I am not quite sure if this would "cure" my height neurosis.

From my personal experience, although I still feel below average (since I still am), I feel one hell of a lot better at 5'7 than just under 5'5. You might not cure your neurosis completely but I think you'll feel better about yourself and people will subconsciously treat you better than before even if they don't quite know why. LL might not completely erase your neurosis, but it's about improvement. Your dating pool will increase a great deal as well.

[aspirant185]

Going from 162 to 170 would make a HUGE difference. Its like being significantly below average to being somewhat below average. I remember a few months ago I went to Prague (Central Europe) and I was overwhelmed by how tall the young people are. Eastern and Central European nations are like the tallest places on Earth, except for Holland. The average in Croatia for example is above 180. And these averages are somewhat biased because they include many Roma (gipsies) that have Indian background and are significantly shorter than average. So I would really look forward that surgery if I were you.
btw, do not forget that once you hit 170, you can always do 5-6 cm tibia and become even closer to average Good Luck

[Madmax_01]

Thanks guys for your encouraging words and your feedback!!
You are absolutely right, about what you said about central Europe. If I even would have been born in the US or in the UK, I think my neurosis would not have been that bad, because people here in central europe are that tall. (Only places worse would have been Sweden or Netherlands).
Moreover, I think if I would have been born in the decade of my parents, I also do not think that height would have been that kind of problem, since people are getting taller and taller.
I sometimes think that the 162 cm today would have been the 172 cm of the 70's-80's.

[aspirant185]

Actually in Western Europe the population is becoming shorter on average because of all these people with migrational background that come from the Middle East and who have much more kids than the native Europeans. In Eastern and Central Europe though that is not happening

[endomorphisme]

Actually in Western Europe the population is becoming shorter on average because of all these people with migrational background that come from the Middle East and who have much more kids than the native Europeans. In Eastern and Central Europe though that is not happening

lol, it's true but many statistics don't include people with migrant backgroung.
I went in austria which is in central europe  and i swear that at 183 cm, i was a bit taller than young men, my opinion is they must average 180-181 cm

[Alittletooshort]

lol, it's true but many statistics don't include people with migrant backgroung.
I went in austria which is in central europe  and i swear that at 183 cm, i was a bit taller than young men, my opinion is they must average 180-181 cm

You are right about that height thing, an average of 181 seems pretty much what I have experienced in years I was living there. I'm always a tad shorter than most guys, but not by much.
Austria may be located in central europe but the numbers of imigrants is as high as those in northern\western europe. So the average gets pushed down as well.

[Madmax_01]

Yes, but you have to take in account that also people - in this case immigrants  - from developing countries also get taller and taller. The best example for that is the Asian region. So yes and no.

[endomorphisme]

You are right about that height thing, an average of 181 seems pretty much what I have experienced in years I was living there. I'm always a tad shorter than most guys, but not by much.
Austria may be located in central europe but the numbers of imigrants is as high as those in northern\western europe. So the average gets pushed down as well.

i was only refering to white austrian, but i didn't see many migrants in Austria.I was in Vienna and i'm almost sure the average height for white young men in vienna is more 180 cm than 181 cm

[Alittletooshort]

i was only refering to white austrian, but i didn't see many migrants in Austria.I was in Vienna and i'm almost sure the average height for white young men in vienna is more 180 cm than 181 cm

You didn´t? In fact 49% of the viennese population has either been born in a forgein country or have parents that were born in a forgein country. The percentage for people below 30 is above 50%. It´s just weird that you didn´t see any because there are so so many.
The average of 180 for young men (wikipedia) includes men from every cultural background so the native white austrians have to be taller in order to compensate for the immigrants.
We won´t find out anyways since there are no statistics for Vienna.

[endomorphisme]

You didn´t? In fact 49% of the viennese population has either been born in a forgein country or have parents that were born in a forgein country. The percentage for people below 30 is above 50%. It´s just weird that you didn´t see any because there are so so many.
The average of 180 for young men (wikipedia) includes men from every cultural background so the native white austrians have to be taller in order to compensate for the immigrants.
We won´t find out anyways since there are no statistics for Vienna.

i was talking about the whites, most people i saw on the street were white, they were either native austrian, or austrian with european background, but to be honest i didn't see many african or asian austrian.In comparison with Paris, Vienna is a hundred times less cosmopolitan than Paris.
It was 4 years ago, so i do not exactly remember.All i can say, is that i didn't feel short,  i rarely did, i remember once being in a bar with 4 or 5 big 195 cm austrian, but the rest of the time, i felt about average to slighlty above it.

[Uppland]

Being 180 or slightly above seems very common in scandinavia, I tried to wear 4 cm lifts for the first time in my life and I was suprised at how much of a difference it made.

181-182 cm is quite typical for swedish men, of couse plenty are taller than that as well.

[aspirant185]

The Asian/African are getting taller as well but still they are well shorter on average than the Europeans.
btw I am currently a student at one of the best business schools in Germany and the average height for Male students, including many Austrians, should be around 185. It is ridiculous, the number of students that are above 190 is just astonishing. Even the Indians should be in the range 175-180 and the chinese in the one 177-183. I ve once talked with a German student who said that he did internship at McKinsey and there was not a single guy below 185 there.

[axelf]

a lot of people here on the forum will doubt that but I can fully support what aspirant185 is saying (although I study at a public university and would never go to one of those business schools with the three letters... )

but what I can report is that my estimation is that the average height will dramatically increase within the next  years (among young people). It's not uncommon at all that I see 14 year old male teenagers above 180cm. And usually a lot of the young girls at let's say 16-18 (within the legal limitations  ) are around my height ( ~178cm).

The old rule of thumb that if you're above 180 and male you can regard yourself as a tall person is no longer true. I'd say you should easily add 5cm to that number. And again, my perception of reality is clear. I don't exaggerate, sorry!

These are just facts. But I'd also like to add for everybody who's as tall as aspirant185 or me (slightly below average but soon a bit on the short side): height is not everything. And it certainly won't solve other problems in your life. And what I hate is that a decent amount of guys here go autopilot if they see a tall man: "ooooh, he's tall. I better kneel down and worship his social value".... and this might be especially true for competetive business surroundings       I just drop a clue: self-fulfilling prophecy

[Medium Drink Of Water]

I understand what the 178cm guys are talking about regarding feeling short in central Europe.  In Serbia the average young man is 6 feet tall.  When I'm there I see short people from far away, and when I get closer I realize that they're the same height as me at 178.  That's how tall a short guy is in Serbia.

The guy on here who's already over 6 feet tall and still wants more, I think is totally nuts and needs therapy rather than LL.  But I don't have a problem with you 178 guys.  In fact, I'm considering doing 5cm femurs.  Not because I really need the height as an American, but to balance out my leg ratio.  Being 6' would be a nice added bonus though.

[Donald Trump]

Gotta love the tall guys trying to convince everyone they're not crazy by claiming that the studies of average height are all wrong and that they're shorties who need lengthening to escape discrimination. So many mental gymnastics needed to reach their conclusion.

What's far more likely to be true is that you're all overstating the heights of these people by a whole forehead in height because you're looking at the tops of their heads and comparing them to your eye level XD

[DoingItForMe]

but what I can report is that my estimation is that the average height will dramatically increase within the next  years (among young people). It's not uncommon at all that I see 14 year old male teenagers above 180cm. And usually a lot of the young girls at let's say 16-18 (within the legal limitations  ) are around my height ( ~178cm).

Average height hasn't changed much in America in the last 50 years. "Data collected from the federal Centers for Disease Control show that average height for Americans has stabilized in the past 50 years to about 5 feet 9 inches for men and 5 feet 4 inches for women. " Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98438&page=1

Average height is increasing in countries where malnutrition used to be a problem and is not so much anymore - like Asian countries. But the problem with your estimation is that you have confirmation bias - meaning you are seeing more of what you want to see: tall, young males.

Girls usually reach their full height at 16-18 due to an earlier puberty, so it's not a surprise if some are around your height. I've lived in America all my life and I don't see many 178 cm girls.

[aspirant185]

What we are trying to argue is that the average height for the students at (top) universities as well as for the employees of the most ''elite'' companies such as the investment banks, management consultancy, law firms, people in these areas are a good 3-4 cm taller than the average for the country as a whole And there are no statistics for that, just random observations.

[aspirant185]

Oh and something else. Because the high birth rate of many Latinos that immigrate to the US, the average height more or less do not move. Statistically, that can be case for Western Europe, where we do observe very tall young white people, but the average remains the same. The reason being, the immigration from the Middle East and Africa.

Now, the case with Eastern Europe is profoundly different. A good 95% of the population is and has always been white caucasian. These countries are highly reluctant to accept new immigrants. I guess you all have heard how Hungary treated refugees. In formal Jugoslavic countries (Serbia, Croatia to name a few) there is pretty high sense of nationalism and people are proud with their Christian heritage and believe that immigration from the Middle East will harm their societies, so they don't accept any.

Because pretty much only white caucasian people participated in the sample, the increase in the average height is so evident in Eastern Europe. The same increase is also evident in Western Europe as well, however, the societies are so much more diverse and this diversity brings the average down.

[Uppland]

It's different days for me and also location strangely enough. For some reason I get dwarfed at the local supermarket and the train station of all places. However when I just walk through town I usually feel slightly below average -just like the statistics have it.

I won't argue that students appear very tall but I think it comes down to socioeconomic status, posture and perhaps differences in spinal shrinkage with age. I've read or heard no credible sources report anything about the overall average height increasing, I believe it has been reported to reach a plateau though which makes sense.

Also many of these eastern europeans statistics are doubtful, more often than not they have a small sample size measured at university -the difference between the educated and the overall populace is usually a few cm, in EE the disparity might be larger still- and give quite varying results. The Serbian average has been reported from 179-182 with the larger studies tending towards the lower end, of course the internet blows things out of proportion as per usual and hence the laims that serbians are 6 feet tall on average.

Good ol' Denmark has yearly measured studies of over 30 000 conscripts from all over the socioeconomic spectrum. Since the 1990's the danish average has been steady at about 180-181 cm and this is for 19-20 year olds.

There was a self-reported smaller study in Denmark that gave 182,5 cm and it's telling of our sensationalist nature that I've seen that number quouted far more often than the real average.

Basically the average white european is 178-182 -excluding the dutch, those really seem to be giants.

[patientdad]

Do you guys think that going from 5'4'' to 5'7'' will make a difference in ones life? I sometimes think that being 5'7'' would still feel being short, and I am not quite sure if this would "cure" my height neurosis.

My son went from 5'4" to 5'7" and I can tell you that it is a huge difference. 

[endomorphisme]

I agree with upland , I read the Norwegian, the danish nd the swiss studies which seems reliable as they have measured thousands men.
If I remember well , danish young males average 180.5 cm , norwegian almost average 180 cm, and it hasn't changed for 2 decades.The swiss average 178 cm .
I have created an account on meetic which is a famous dating website in Europe, I'm going to do statistics by using the search engine and I will post the results

[endomorphisme]

Having said that , I still believe that I'm not tall enough, 185 cm is the magical boundary, at 183 cm you can feel short a lot of time , and you re still below average in a couple of countries.

[Uppland]

Having said that , I still believe that I'm not tall enough, 185 cm is the magical boundary, at 183 cm you can feel short a lot of time , and you re still below average in a couple of countries.

But we can at least establish that if you are at least 180-183 you shouldn't be considered short in europe -again excluding the netherlands.

[Europa]

8cm is not so unrealistic, considering the average of Dr. G's patients is 7cm.  I did 8cm with him. I think beyond 8 may be a stretch and depends on how your body reacts once you actually start lengthening.

I would not go in with the expectation of 100% recovery of running and sprinting because you might be disappointed.

A bit late to answer… I don't mean to sound like a dck but did you really expect a good outcome by lengthening 8 cm? It's been well documented by now that pretty much anything exceeding 6 cm on femurs and 5 cm on tibias is bound to worsen your physical abilities by a significant margin.

Having said that , I still believe that I'm not tall enough, 185 cm is the magical boundary, at 183 cm you can feel short a lot of time , and you re still below average in a couple of countries.

Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone else mate – we all know the stats yet you're still confusing your own perception with comprehensive reality. That's fine, but spare us the   talk please.

[Deads]

A bit late to answer… I don't mean to sound like a dk but did you really expect a good outcome by lengthening 8 cm? It's been well documented by now that pretty much anything exceeding 6 cm on femurs and 5 cm on tibias is bound to worsen your physical abilities by a significant margin.


Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone else mate – we all know the stats yet you're still confusing your own perception with comprehensive reality. That's fine, but spare us the crap talk please.

Hi five!