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[spyratoss]

Thanks for that perspective.  Ive also suffered some past sports injuries so who knows how capable my recovery would be.   You have me pause for thought. 80k buys a lot of vacations.  But my recent, sudden single status and age has made me worried.  Even dating some single mothers has been exasperating
   It's not the only reason, though, I get that .

[Sweden]

I don't regret it but I would not do it over again.
Meaning: if time would switch back 2,5 years, and I was 45 again and 173cm, I would not do LL.

It's all psychological, it's all in your head. There are better ways to become happy and content with your life than doing LL.

For some people LL might be great and change their life but the vast majority either has nasty complications or realizes that a few inches more might make them taller but not necessarily happier.

I can relate to this.

It's mostly in your head.

But still - you can only do a first impression one time.......

[YellowSpike]

It is never too late to become the person you want to be. I won't be doing my second LL until I'm almost 33, but I don't care...even though I have to wait and still be depressed until I do, it's something to look forward to and something that no one and no failed relationships/woman can ever take away from me.

[ouroboros]

We all have different reasons why we are here and thinking about our height no matter our age.
Depending on how tall(or short) we are, we are going through certain situations that we are trying to deal with..... In your case spyratoss, you are 5'6", which is considered short in north America.

The following are some observations that are based solely on my opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt:

- at 5'6" you are officially short in North America and receive some privileges and consideration based on your height, like some people may stick up for you, or may feel sorry for you and not want to hurt your feelings. (they like you, just not in a romantic way)
- at 5'6" you will also be automatically disqualified from some advancement opportunities at work or with the ladies as a potential lover. 

- Now,you want to lengthen and become 5'8"-5'9", and that will make you average or very close to it.
- at 5'8"ish you will lose any consideration you received before, and now be expected to perform like everyone else.
- your appearance and personality are going to count much more than they did before, because you are no longer being automatically disqualified and are now allowed to "play the game"
- you will have a new set of challenges, might still be at a disadvantage to 6'+ guys, but you are not considered short-short.

If you want to go through with this surgery, I say go for it.   In the mean time, while you are waiting to get this done next year, try to always improve other aspects of your life because you will improve with height gain, and your standard of life should also improve along with it.

[Deads]

We all have different reasons why we are here and thinking about our height no matter our age.
Depending on how tall(or short) we are, we are going through certain situations that we are trying to deal with..... In your case spyratoss, you are 5'6", which is considered short in north America.

The following are some observations that are based solely on my opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt:

- at 5'6" you are officially short in North America and receive some privileges and consideration based on your height, like some people may stick up for you, or may feel sorry for you and not want to hurt your feelings. (they like you, just not in a romantic way)
- at 5'6" you will also be automatically disqualified from some advancement opportunities at work or with the ladies as a potential lover. 

- Now,you want to lengthen and become 5'8"-5'9", and that will make you average or very close to it.
- at 5'8"ish you will lose any consideration you received before, and now be expected to perform like everyone else.
- your appearance and personality are going to count much more than they did before, because you are no longer being automatically disqualified and are now allowed to "play the game"
- you will have a new set of challenges, might still be at a disadvantage to 6'+ guys, but you are not considered short-short.

If you want to go through with this surgery, I say go for it.   In the mean time, while you are waiting to get this done next year, try to always improve other aspects of your life because you will improve with height gain, and your standard of life should also improve along with it.

Some of the stuff I read on here is humorous to say the least....

Some people might feel sorry for a 5"6 guy. Really..
Automatically disqualified from some advancement opportunities. Really..

So many people on this forum over analyse everything think that they are sooooo disadvantaged by being short and that tall guys have soooo many perks. And women will only take you seriously if you are 5 feet 9.59875 inches tall to the exact millimetre.... Or men that are taller are 87% more likely to succeed, get that promotion, bang your woman......... Blaaaaaaaa.

The reason you don't get that promotion or find romance or whatever is based purely on self belief. If you fill your head with useless jargon, then you'll never get anywhere.

[TomD]

I am 49 and plan to finally go forward next year at age 50. I think its up to the individual and the doctor. Some folks are in such good shape and spirits they can probably do it at 70 , while I have seen guys so broken down to due to drug abuse that they probably wouldnt survive it at age 30.

Ideally you want to be between 22-30 to have it done as your body recovers the fastest during this period.

[Sweden]

I am 49 and plan to finally go forward next year at age 50. I think its up to the individual and the doctor. Some folks are in such good shape and spirits they can probably do it at 70 , while I have seen guys so broken down to due to drug abuse that they probably wouldnt survive it at age 30.

Ideally you want to be between 22-30 to have it done as your body recovers the fastest during this period.

How tall are you now and how much are you planning on lengthening? Femurs or tibias?

Do you feel that it was a waste being in your 20 and feel short?

Just curious. No offense.

[spyratoss]

Awesome way to look at this.  Thank you

[spyratoss]

A lot of what you say is true.  I was married to beautiful woman, it just didn't work out.  Which brings up a story....I recently tried online dating.   One lady's requirements were, get this, must be taller than her, NOT the same height, and certainly not shorter.   Now tell me, how fulfilled will this loser be the rest of her life focusing on just one such parameter . How successful do you think she'll be in a long term relationship?  I get it, if you just want to get laid at the bar, ok.....if you want subgenre who will stock with you, punt that crap.   Do you want to be with subgenre like that?  I'm older, hence why I started this post.....$100k ? A year of difficulty walking? Possible complications.   If you're going, and your still scoping  the scenei would certainly do it.  But eventually we all get to an age where loyalty and stability are more important.   ,

[DoingItForMe]

A lot of what you say is true.  I was married to beautiful woman, it just didn't work out.  Which brings up a story....I recently tried online dating.   One lady's requirements were, get this, must be taller than her, NOT the same height, and certainly not shorter.   Now tell me, how fulfilled will this loser be the rest of her life focusing on just one such parameter . How successful do you think she'll be in a long term relationship?  I get it, if you just want to get laid at the bar, ok.....if you want subgenre who will stock with you, punt that crap.   Do you want to be with subgenre like that?  I'm older, hence why I started this post.....$100k ? A year of difficulty walking? Possible complications.   If you're going, and your still scoping  the scenei would certainly do it.  But eventually we all get to an age where loyalty and stability are more important.   ,

Like I said, I wouldn't recommend wasting time and money on this surgery if it's only for dating women. If a girl is superficial enough to not want to date someone because of their height, then they are probably not very open-minded or bright people. Dating people like that who are superficial is bad, because as you get older, it's inevitable that you'll be uglier and even shorter. And then what happens? Will she still be attracted to you then? It's better to avoid this surgery and find someone who likes you for your personality and would prefer financial stability.

Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily call superficial people losers. They just can't override their genetic instincts or social pressure to date someone tall. Luckily not all girls are like that or else half the population of short men will die off.

[YellowSpike]

We can all say all we want "Do you really want to date someone so superficial she can't see past your height," and "Don't do LL for women, you don't want a type of woman who cares about height so much," blah blah blah. I actually agree with this...but let's face it...would a lot of us really be here if it weren't for womens' strict (and steadily getting worse) height requirements?

I think we all need to admit that this is in large part why this surgery exists. Of course, we all do it for many other reasons...to be as tall as our friends/father, to be average, to be less short...and even to be tall. But I think those of us who say "I did not do this at all for women" are lying to themselves, even if only a little bit. I mean...HELLO...height makes us more attractive and "appear more confident"...and aside from how we appear to our friends and men (maybe in the workplace)...we do this sh*t for women! Duh...lol

Even for those of us who were able to get attractive women before LL (I know I was, thank God for facial aesthetics, because I'm still very short)...in the back of our heads (or at least, in the back of my head), we always worried what would happen if we'd end up single again...because we know, even if it is possible, we have to work that much harder and face that much more rejection than the average guy until we find a girl we like who likes us back.

Let's keep it real. Women care about height, and they always will, even as they get older. I've dated my fair share of cougars (or used them for sex), and can confirm - they ALL care about height, even if at varying degrees. And you all need to remember, women have it much easier than men in dating and can afford to be extra picky (and height is usually the first thing they use to make the first cuts).

Hence why I'm doing round 2. People say "accept your height," eff that, not stopping until I'm average, even if it nearly kills me.

[jaymorgan712]

I agree with Yellowspike. Women do care about height, even though (if you ask them) they say they don't. They say things like "be happy with what you have, accept who you are" an then they say "Oh, and I prefer men taller than me."

[YellowSpike]

I agree with Yellowspike. Women do care about height, even though (if you ask them) they say they don't. They say things like "be happy with what you have, accept who you are" an then they say "Oh, and I prefer men taller than me."

This is because women, even though they are just as superficial as men (if not, more!), they REFUSE to admit it.

Me? I will flat out admit I would never date a fat or curvy woman, an ugly woman, and I definitely prefer red heads (without frizzy hair and tons of freckles) and blondes. My dream woman is Katy Perry (with those eyes, she can dye her hair any color of the rainbow and still be super hot). I'm superficial to a certain degree...but guess what? I readily admit it! Will I end up with a girl who looks like Katy Perry? Probably not, it's not realistic, and that's ok! But I definitely have my preferences. I make pretty decent money for my age and location, have great facial aesthetics (9/10 on my best day), am in great shape...just being 5'8" (post LL) ruins the package. So I know I won't be able to get a girl like that, but that's fine, as long as she's not fat and is above average looking.

Women, on the other hand, will crucify short men behind their backs, but will never admit out loud that they objectify us just as much as we do them. We are "pigs" for not wanting to date fat women (who can easily change, and don't have to break their legs), but they're justified in their overt (and sometimes, malicious) disdain for short men?

Yeah...ok.

[jaymorgan712]

It's true, Yellowspike. Well, all girls (even tall ones who are around 6 foot tall) say I am not a short guy. I still think they are full of it.

Watch that video and fast forward to 6 mins and tell me what you think. That's me by the way, measuring myself in the Tom cruise video.

[spyratoss]

Agree.  Finding myself single, I know I'm a good looking guy.  Tried online dating again and after a week, dropped out....too depressing to see women, even washed out forty year olds with kids, still have the same height requirements.   But damn, to go through this amidst poor house, diff walking or even worse.   It's a lot to take in.   The question I have is still does someone care who hadn't seen you before ...I mean 5 8" isn't that much better with respect to all that pain, money.  I go back and forth .    Fear of nothing changing after all that.   But agree. It's mostly about these shallow chicks

[YellowSpike]

Agree.  Finding myself single, I know I'm a good looking guy.  Tried online dating again and after a week, dropped out....too depressing to see women, even washed out forty year olds with kids, still have the same height requirements.   But damn, to go through this amidst poor house, diff walking or even worse.   It's a lot to take in.   The question I have is still does someone care who hadn't seen you before ...I mean 5 8" isn't that much better with respect to all that pain, money.  I go back and forth .    Fear of nothing changing after all that.   But agree. It's mostly about these shallow chicks

I've read some of your posts, and can relate to you a lot more than you  might realize, even though I'm younger and have never been married. I know the pain that a breakup and subsequent dating can cause for a short guy.

I was a little over 5'5" before and am a solid 5'8" at night now. Living in America, 5'8" is still terrible, but at least at 5'8", I now register (still don't know how I got women before...). Being 5'8", you can build a decent body, and if you're handsome, women around 5'3"-5'6" will be your target market (very short women will always want men 6'6" and up, and I personally don't like women taller than me, even if I've done it before). LL has helped me a bit with women.

But I'm personally not even looking for another relationship until I'm average. Hookups and such are fine, but I refuse to put myself out there until I have the future dating/post-divorce "insurance" of being average.

That's the way women are these days (like you said, even the older, used up, single moms all care about height, and are very outspoken and b*tchy about it).

[DoingItForMe]

LL has helped me a bit with women.

How much has it helped you, though? Is one extra inch really going to make that much difference between whether a girl will date you or not? If so, don't you think that that relationship is skating on thin ice if one inch in height is the deciding factor between her dating you and her dumping you?

[YellowSpike]

How much has it helped you, though? Is one extra inch really going to make that much difference between whether a girl will date you or not? If so, don't you think that that relationship is skating on thin ice if one inch in height is the deciding factor between her dating you and her dumping you?

Maybe in my specific situation and given what I've said, I can see your point.

I never said, nor do I believe, that the girl who really broke my heart after a good number of years left me because of my height. That thought never even crossed my mind.

However, the breakup in and of itself, and subsequent dating that inevitably comes after (online height requirements, and let's face it, that's how most dating is done these days) sucks for short men. Just as you've said before, some people should "try to find a wife/gf." You're partially correct - my height neurosis was at an all time low when I had an attractive gf. BUT... a woman can leave you in a heartbeat, and you can be blind-sided big time. Just the way a woman can divorce you after many years together, take your home, your kids, etc.

Any woman who leaves a man after developing feelings for him over an inch of height...I won't even qualify such a woman with a name. HOWEVER...you'd best believe that an inch or two of height equals more dates/opportunities in the future. Even if we're not talking about online dating (where we know every inch below 5'10" is exponentially worse and more and more penalized), there is definitely a visual difference between 5'8" and average 5'9+/5'10.

I was at a big party recently, very formal event. Can't say more. If the average woman in America is 5'5" or so, let's add 3-4" inch heels. Women consider their heel height as their "True height," which we must equal or best. So, the average woman is 5'9"...maybe I'm 5'9" in my own normal shoes, but being a flat footed 5'8" is still cutting it way too close.

How has LL helped me so far? I definitely get more unsolicited emails/winks/date offers from more attractive women. I've been on dates with women this past summer who flat out said they'd never date a man below 5'7" and guessed me at "5'9/5'10"" so it's made a difference. But I refuse to look for anything serious because I know relationships usually come to an end, and I want to be fully secure in knowing when the next relationship falls apart/marriage ends in divorce, I'm at least average height, and can at least get dates/casual sex and enjoy that lifestyle much easier.

So yeah, another inch or two in my case is crucial.

[YellowSpike]

And before I get flamed - yeah, I had my heart badly broken (duh lol) and yes, I'm in therapy (for both that, and my height neurosis).

I just want to be fully resolved on this before trying again. I want to know that I have all the options of an average man after the next breakup/divorce, and I want to know at the end of the day even if I'm alone, that I'm average height.

[spyratoss]

Yellow Spike .In total agreement. I'm on the fence....but I think I'll do it by end of next year.   My friends all say rhevsamr thing......look at Tom Cruise .Prince.....blah blah .  These are hardly representative of typical short guys.   And ask the friends that say that are 5 10" or more.   I'll take 5 8" , even at my age.  I mean, another twenty years of being more desirable....sign me up.   My latest disaster after divorce, granted, I was aiming higher , but this woman, hardly that attractive....maybe 6/19 but 5 10" was really into me.    But I'll never know but my suspicion is that after seven months of promise and an ex that abused her,  she suddenly changed her mind about me.   "I'm sorry" .  She just kept saying.   No explanation.  Disappeared, never returned my call.  So was it height ?   I mean she was chill with it fire awhile bit I can't help but feel that was the reason.   I'll be 46 by the time I'm dune but seeing do many sickle low life losers use the same measure is depressing .   

[spyratoss]

Completely man, I hear.    Love hate relationship with women .  I'm completely down and depressed ....entered a dark area I'm my life I'm still trying to get over.   I always walk by women and notice no matter how I walk straight with a one inch lift, it's never enough

[YellowSpike]

I have to stop myself eventually from saying too much...but I'll say this...

Women absolutely have the power when it comes to dating these days, and they know it. Our mothers/women of past generations were much the same, but were raised to be polite and civil. That veneer of civility is cracking, and it's getting worse. As I say, women are the new men.

I'm all for female empowerment, I really am (I'm not being patronizing). But women, even with all their newfound power, still want to be dominated. The only ways really to dominate a woman are to make a ton of money (DoingItForMe, congrats bro, you've got that one covered!), or be physically more powerful than her. And with women earning as much as us (or much closer, on average), dominating via money is much harder to do.

Hence - the great importance of a man's height.

[spyratoss]

"So true.  I was on Okcupid......totally not recommended but just for giggles....I messaged one girl, 5'1"......she's looking for a guy taller than 5'8" .   I mean, how disillusioned are these women.   She wasn't even all that .  And women being fascinated themselves about being taller only makes it harder for us. The more I think of this, the more I wanna do it.    It's just an unspoken advantage, like you said, a woman will never admit that, but it's true   

[DoingItForMe]

Why not just lie about your height online, YellowSpike? Almost everyone adds about 2 inches to their actual height on OkCupid. There was a study that showed that the average height of males on OkCupid was 2 inches higher than the actual male average. And the reason is because males are probably lying about their height. And you yourself said that a girl thought you were 5'9/5'10. I'm 5'9" and a guy who was the same height as me thought that I was 5'11"!

As for Spyratoss, I won't lie. At your height, getting taller will likely help you in the dating scene slightly. I strongly believe that you're letting your emotions cloud your judgement, though. Who cares about that 5'1" girl who wants a guy who's 5'8". That's just one girl. It doesn't mean that every girl is like that. Yes, I do feel that it's harder to date when you're short. I'm also Asian in a mostly-white city, where white girls dismiss asian guys simply for their race. So I had two disadvantages in the dating scene. Yes, it sucks, but it doesn't suck as much as losing $100k and more than half a year of my time. Everyday for the past 6 months, I've been feeling pain in my legs after the surgery. If I had done this simply because of the dating scene, I'd regret my LL surgery. There are girls out there who don't care about my height. I've dated them. You've dated them. They are harder to find, but they are out there. I'd rather find those girls and not suffer all this pain, time loss and financial loss. I can only date one girl at a time anyway, so it's not like I'm missing out on anything if the girls who require a certain height don't want to date me. Sorry, but I don't want to date you shallow girls, too.

You just suffered a traumatic and painful event. Why put yourself through even more trauma and pain with LL? I suggest that you also lie about your height on dating profiles. When I was 5'5"-5'6", I'd write that I was 5'7" on my online dating profile. I got dates just fine. You just have to write a really good dating profile. Make sure that it's funny. And make sure that it's actually funny, because you might not actually be funny but think you're funny.

[YellowSpike]

You make a lot of valid points that I agree with in principle. I remember you saying you were 5'5-5'6 before the surgery (depending on the time of day)...so I guess we're pretty similar heights now. I know I'm 5'9" in the morning after a good night's sleep and generally a little over 5'8" at night before bed.

I do say I'm 5'9" when doing online dating...but that's who I want to be, who I wish I was. I'm lying. Even though I'm only lying by an inch, I don't like the fact that I have to lie, or feel strongly compelled to lie.

I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again...every inch below 5'10" is absolutely crucial, and the inches between 5'8-5'10" are very important.

I want to be average. I still don't know how I'm going to get there...I really don't. Tibias still scare the sh*t out of me, and I still toy around with doing 2cm more on my femurs to at least get close to 5'9" at night...but there is definitely more LL for me in the future. Even to the point, I would be willing sacrifice a relationship for it. A woman can always leave or divorce you, but the height is forever.

[spyratoss]

I like your perspective.  It is realistic and the reason why I am on the fence.  Online dating is a disaster, as many can attest, even for taller people.  The one good thing among a few I have going for me is I'm in great physical shape, good looking, but more importantly, well proportioned.  Of course my legs are shorter overall, otherwise I wouldn't be 5ft6" .   I think that if a woman dismisses you right out of the gate by listing just numbers, which most do online, it's a shame. But that's what we have to deal with.  I'm also tired of seeing an attractive girl, many of whom are taller or at least my height, pass me by.  You're right, there are women out there who don't care;  but I also don't want a four hundred pound pig just because no one else wants to date her.  So, I'd rather wait.  I have a year to figure it out while I save and have been in contact with Dr. Guichet for internal femoral lengthening.  Don't think for a minute that $100k, potential job loss, and pain/possible complications wouldn't bother me.  The "minus" column is definitely more weighted than the "plus" column right now.

[spyratoss]

BTW, I would say 5 7" online.  Good call. I think if you're well proportioned, in good shape, and decent looking/take care of yourself/dress well, that's the other thing.  So there are things that can be done.  It's not like some chick is gonna whip out a tape measure and I agree that most people would have a hard time knowing 5 7" from 5 5" or 5 6"  .

[DoingItForMe]

I want to be average. I still don't know how I'm going to get there...I really don't. Tibias still scare the sh*t out of me, and I still toy around with doing 2cm more on my femurs to at least get close to 5'9" at night...but there is definitely more LL for me in the future. Even to the point, I would be willing sacrifice a relationship for it. A woman can always leave or divorce you, but the height is forever.

YellowSpike, I support you no matter what you do. You seem convinced that being average height will make you much happier, so I say I support you if you did it. Just make sure that after you do it, you don't come back and say you think 5'9" is still short. And then repeat this whole problem again. Tibias scare me, too, especially since I'm healing slowly with femurs right now. The fact that a lot of tibia patients suffer from permanent knee pain also worries me.

BTW, I would say 5 7" online.  Good call. I think if you're well proportioned, in good shape, and decent looking/take care of yourself/dress well, that's the other thing.  So there are things that can be done.  It's not like some chick is gonna whip out a tape measure and I agree that most people would have a hard time knowing 5 7" from 5 5" or 5 6"  .

This only works for shorter girls btw. If you go on a date with an actual 5'7" girl, she'll notice that you're shorter than her, unless you wear shoe lifts. Also, most of the girls I dated are really attractive. None of them were four hundred pound pigs. There are a lot of attractive girls who are 5'4" and under. 5'4"-5'5" is the average height of women anyway, so you're already taller than most women.

[spyratoss]

I know , you're right.   But it seems even the shorter girls want much taller guys and those friggin heel requirements. 

[DoingItForMe]

I know , you're right.   But it seems even the shorter girls want much taller guys and those friggin heel requirements.

Haha, tell me about it. I've been there. But not every girl is like that.