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[Uppland]

It has helped me, it didn't cure my height neurosis mind you but I am at a point where I know that I will be satisfied with just a small gain of 4 cm or so. Height doesn't dominate my thoughts like it used to and I don't feel nearly as self counscious around taller people anymore. LL is now something I want to do quickly, safely and fast that I may close this chapter and move on and I think this is a much healthier attitude.

Finally I am also sober enough to realize that even though I would be ecstatic to gain 5, 6 or 7 cm, it makes more sense to aim lower. As I age and mature height will become less important and at that point I would rather have done too little than too much.

Bottom line is, try therapy to sober up before you rush into something dangerous.

[Alu]

I agree with this 100% Sure, mind you I actually just recently started my therapy two weeks ago, it has helped tremendously already. Even at my own height of just barely 5'4 I'm living life much better then what I was experiencing 1-2 months ago.

It is true that it won't cure your height neurosis 100% (or ever really depending on the person; I know it can't for me), I'm no longer in a pit of despair that once held me back. In fact I would say that the pit of despair I was in was what held me back socially the most.

Don't shy away from professional help because you think it won't help; the point is to alleviate the pain.

[Taller]

Me too. A big help was learning new skills, getting in really good shape, and hanging out with and befriending successful short people who legitimately don't give a crap about their heights and accomplish everything they set their minds to. This made me realize that mindset is much more important that any purely physical trait.

While I'd still love to be taller (and feel that I was supposed to be taller), I'm never depressed about my height anymore. Before, I almost hated myself because of it.

[YellowSpike]

I've been going to therapy once a week, and it doesn't help me at all. All I'm using it for is a means to tide me over until I do further LL (either in my femurs or tibias). Of course therapy is helping you guys, you guys ARE NOT SHORT (not sure about Alu's height). I am still short, and all I want is to be average.

For me I have to choose between:
1. Do femurs and have bad proportions (but be 5'9", the lowest one can be and still be considered "average" in most cases, or "low average" at worst). Fast recovery.
2. Do tibias (what I really want to do), but lose my career and be jobless and broke. Eternal recovery.

So I'm essentially forced to do femurs, it seems. The mockups (which I've considered sharing on here, but I feel like everyone is going to make me feel terrible) actually don't look that much different from how I am now with more on femurs...but the tibia mockups of course look better.

I don't mean to minimize anyone's problems, but you 5'10" and up guys will never appreciate how good you have it. You may not be tall, but most importantly...you do not have the negatives of being labeled as short.

[jfk]

I've been going to therapy once a week, and it doesn't help me at all. All I'm using it for is a means to tide me over until I do further LL (either in my femurs or tibias). Of course therapy is helping you guys, you guys ARE NOT SHORT (not sure about Alu's height). I am still short, and all I want is to be average.

For me I have to choose between:
1. Do femurs and have bad proportions (but be 5'9", the lowest one can be and still be considered "average" in most cases, or "low average" at worst). Fast recovery.
2. Do tibias (what I really want to do), but lose my career and be jobless and broke. Eternal recovery.

So I'm essentially forced to do femurs, it seems. The mockups (which I've considered sharing on here, but I feel like everyone is going to make me feel terrible) actually don't look that much different from how I am now with more on femurs...but the tibia mockups of course look better.

I don't mean to minimize anyone's problems, but you 5'10" and up guys will never appreciate how good you have it. You may not be tall, but most importantly...you do not have the negatives of being labeled as short.

You say with doing tibias you would be broke, but with femurs not. I dont understand that, because a femur operation costs usually much more than tibias...If I remember right you would re-break your femurs and only do 2.5 cm. Would your doctor do that with little money?

A tibia operation would be not more than 20 000 € if you do LATN/LON. So I dont get why that would make you broke. Lose your whole career? I assume you are talking of a office job. I dont think you would lose your whole career if you are out for 6-9 months...

So in my opinion it should be:

1. Re-break femurs: Be broke, bad proportions, little height gain, fast recovery
2. Do tibias (2-3 inches): Not be broke, good proportions, good height gain, be tall, longer recovery.
3. Do tibias (1 inch): Not be broke, good proportions, little height gain, fast recovery.

But maybe I did not get something here...

[YellowSpike]

No jfk, you don't understand...

Even for an inch, tibias are just a lot harder with a longer recovery than femurs. Dr. Guichet himself has advised me against doing tibias because my femur recovery was slow-ish (he said he always does femurs first to get a sense of how tibias will go for each patient), although another surgeon told me that was probably because rotary nails aren't the best for recovery and negatively impact blood flow to femurs. The thing is, everything Dr. G has told me so far has come true, so I really got scared when he advised against doing femurs. I trust him.

If I were to do a femur re-break, it would cost significantly less than what I just did, and about on par with what you listed as the cost for LON. And I can't do LON, because even with an inch, it'll take too long to consolidate. I'd have to suck it up and do an internal method for tibias (with the surgeon I want for tibias, it's gonna cost around 35-40K euros). Femurs would be super fast too, which I like. But f*cking God damned proportions...

Yes I have an office job, but having a gap in your resume really isn't kosher in this day and age, and I don't want to end up taking a pay cut in order to do this (when you have no job, getting a job and negotiating a good salary is much, much harder. I don't want to be put in that position). 

I don't even know if I have it in me to do tibias. They scare me, and they just are gonna take longer. I have a bad feeling about doing tibias, even only an inch terrifies me. But I've been in contact with Dr. G (who is still against tibias for me, but insists I can do another inch and not completely ruin my proportions) and the other surgeon as to the future for me.

[Uppland]

I've been going to therapy once a week, and it doesn't help me at all. All I'm using it for is a means to tide me over until I do further LL (either in my femurs or tibias). Of course therapy is helping you guys, you guys ARE NOT SHORT (not sure about Alu's height). I am still short, and all I want is to be average.

For me I have to choose between:
1. Do femurs and have bad proportions (but be 5'9", the lowest one can be and still be considered "average" in most cases, or "low average" at worst). Fast recovery.
2. Do tibias (what I really want to do), but lose my career and be jobless and broke. Eternal recovery.

So I'm essentially forced to do femurs, it seems. The mockups (which I've considered sharing on here, but I feel like everyone is going to make me feel terrible) actually don't look that much different from how I am now with more on femurs...but the tibia mockups of course look better.

I don't mean to minimize anyone's problems, but you 5'10" and up guys will never appreciate how good you have it. You may not be tall, but most importantly...you do not have the negatives of being labeled as short.

I too do not mean to minimize but surely you can recognize how important mindset is. My friend is 168 cm -that is 13 cm below average and he lives a more social and successful life than me despite being short. You are 5 cm taller in a country where the average is lower, try to gain some perspective mate as I have.

[jfk]

No jfk, you don't understand...

Even for an inch, tibias are just a lot harder with a longer recovery than femurs. Dr. Guichet himself has advised me against doing tibias because my femur recovery was slow-ish (he said he always does femurs first to get a sense of how tibias will go for each patient), although another surgeon told me that was probably because rotary nails aren't the best for recovery and negatively impact blood flow to femurs. The thing is, everything Dr. G has told me so far has come true, so I really got scared when he advised against doing femurs. I trust him.

If I were to do a femur re-break, it would cost significantly less than what I just did, and about on par with what you listed as the cost for LON. And I can't do LON, because even with an inch, it'll take too long to consolidate. I'd have to suck it up and do an internal method for tibias (with the surgeon I want for tibias, it's gonna cost around 35-40K euros). Femurs would be super fast too, which I like. But f*cking God damned proportions...

Yes I have an office job, but having a gap in your resume really isn't kosher in this day and age, and I don't want to end up taking a pay cut in order to do this (when you have no job, getting a job and negotiating a good salary is much, much harder. I don't want to be put in that position). 

I don't even know if I have it in me to do tibias. They scare me, and they just are gonna take longer. I have a bad feeling about doing tibias, even only an inch terrifies me. But I've been in contact with Dr. G (who is still against tibias for me, but insists I can do another inch and not completely ruin my proportions) and the other surgeon as to the future for me.

Dr. Guichet advised you against femurs and against tibias? That is what you have stated and that is strange. He basically says: You can not get any taller.

Let me tell some things here. You really overestimate breaking tibias. I dont know where your fear of breaking your tibias is coming from but I did tibias and it really is not that bad. What I often read is that people make up something in their mind and take it as a fact. Like you take the assumption of "tibias is too hard" and take it as a fact. What happens then is that you restrict yourself and your possiblities without having facts but assumptions. Like people say: It is not possible to be a millionaire so they never try and never will be. They just assume something and take it as a fact and therefore never reach their goals. That is why they never will get millionaires. What I am trying to tell you is that you should not block yourself in your head. Dont think of breaking your tibias as something you can not do or can not recover from. Try to fight your fear from breaking your tibias. Make yourself free of restrictions.
You say "I cant do LON" and "If I do tibias my career will crush". Why do you restrict yourself? These are assumptions, not facts. You really need to get over your fears of breaking your tibias.

Anyway I am just trying you to see some aspects you havent before and it is your decision.
If you ask me you can get 2-3 inches in your tibias. And yes you can do LON/LATN. And no, your career will not fall apart. Will it be easy? No. Will it take some time? Yes.
But will you be happy with your height afterwards? Hell yeah

If you make it to be able to do tibias I am sure you would come out stronger. You would find peace with yourself because you reached a very good height. Never ever thinking about height problems again. But you need to push yourself to make that step...
 

[YellowSpike]

Nope, that was my goof. He advised against tibias, and only tibias. He says that my "best option" to get a bit taller is one more inch on femurs and that my proportions won't be that bad. He had said a lot of his patients started shorted than me, and did 10cm+ and look ok. He showed me a pic of one of them (face blurred out) and the guy looks great in clothes (as do I, and I think I would even after 2.5cm more)...but nked might be another story.

Maybe I'm overestimating tibias, but they just scare me, even before Dr. G said what he said. He basically said tibias can take a very long time to heal, and sometimes are still healing after a year. And he said that my femurs healed kind of slow (by his standards, I suppose), and for that reason, he thinks tibias will take super long for me.

I know that more LL is 100% in my future...I just don't know what form it will take. I really do not want a gap on my resume...if I were rich/just out of college/had my own company then no problem - but that isn't the case for me.

I'll figure it out eventually.

I too do not mean to minimize but surely you can recognize how important mindset is. My friend is 168 cm -that is 13 cm below average and he lives a more social and successful life than me despite being short. You are 5 cm taller in a country where the average is lower, try to gain some perspective mate as I have.

I know man. Just doesn't change the way I feel. But thanks.

[Taller]

Of course therapy is helping you guys, you guys ARE NOT SHORT (not sure about Alu's height). I am still short, and all I want is to be average.

may not be tall, but most importantly...you do not have the negatives of being labeled as short.

As much as I hate to say it, I think you are right about this one. At least you have a lot of other things going for you that many tall people out there will never have.

[Sean Connery]

Drinking makes you happy with your body the way it is. I suggest that as an alternative to therapy.

[Alu]

Nope, that was my goof. He advised against tibias, and only tibias. He says that my "best option" to get a bit taller is one more inch on femurs and that my proportions won't be that bad. He had said a lot of his patients started shorted than me, and did 10cm+ and look ok. He showed me a pic of one of them (face blurred out) and the guy looks great in clothes (as do I, and I think I would even after 2.5cm more)...but nked might be another story.

Maybe I'm overestimating tibias, but they just scare me, even before Dr. G said what he said. He basically said tibias can take a very long time to heal, and sometimes are still healing after a year. And he said that my femurs healed kind of slow (by his standards, I suppose), and for that reason, he thinks tibias will take super long for me.

I know that more LL is 100% in my future...I just don't know what form it will take. I really do not want a gap on my resume...if I were rich/just out of college/had my own company then no problem - but that isn't the case for me.

I'll figure it out eventually.

Honestly Yellow, I have two pieces of advice for you.

First, I can understand the need to be average or what not. After all you're not that far from it, and it would feel good to be part of a bigger group. However, I don't think that you should beat yourself over and over about it. I don't know how it's personally like for you being 5'8ish, but I can tell you that you're already at great height. My first advice would be in the mindset of don't do any more LL, try to find a nice hobby that takes your mind of your neurosis. 5'8 is shorter then average...but by an inch and a half; and really no one who isn't 6'+ can call you short in the same manner society calls men below 5'7 short. Another thing, don try beat yourself over not being at that average; 1 inch of difference isn't worth it jumping from 5'8 to 5'9 (but again I respect your own view on this) if I'd have to endure the trauma of LL.

My second advice, still pertaining to the notion of not rushing to do LL, but if you absolutely feel like you have to...I'd recommend going the tibia route. Sure this route is father away but at the same time it can be the most rewarding if you seek to go an extra cm or two where's you can't do that in your femurs. It will also ensure less trauma for your thighs already and better proportionality (it's underrated but extremely important). Another benefit from this would be that maybe as your saving up for tibia operation and you miraculously decide against it and lose your neurosis.

My humble opinion. Best wishes.

[G-Man]

I know that more LL is 100% in my future...I just don't know what form it will take.

The question is: is it really safe to lengthen 10cm?  Even if it's 2 ops, it is still the same nerves, tendons, etc. and they have a limit.  I would do 4-5cm in tibs, that would bring you to 5'10" and restore your proportions.  The only downside are the scars.

[YellowSpike]

I sincerely appreciate everyone's kind words. Thank you.

Nothing will change the way I feel. No amount of therapy or positive speaking is going to make a difference. It's a bit funny, though, how some people on here taller than me (who also want LL) are trying to tell me that 5'8" is ok. I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I mean, you guys are above 5'9"...you don't even really need LL, but I respect everyone's choice to do as they please (I know everyone has their particular reasons).

Whenever you hear articles and the media talk about "short men"...it's usually men under 5'8" or (I would argue more often) men under 5'9". Unlike many on here, I have had the short label my entire life, and I don't want it anymore. 5'8" is still objectively short by these standards (anything under 5'9", based on online dating, Hollywood "short male celeb" lists, articles that talk about how being short for men sucks always use 5'9" as the cutoff). After all I've been through, I will not settle for anything less than 5'9".

I just don't know how I'm going to pull off tibias without destroying my career. I'm not rich (though I can afford a second LL in cash right now) or have parents paying for my surgery or run my own company. I'm an average joe (maybe slightly above average, financially). I just wish I knew of a diary of someone who did a small amount on tibias (like 3.5-4cm tops) using an internal method, and how they recovered. I need this sh*t to be as fast as possible. Pain doesn't mean a thing to me, it's just the time factor.

[Taller]

Yellowspike, perhaps you should email or talk to Dr. Monegal. He is extremely honest and has done more successful cases of cosmetic internal tibia lengthening than almost any other doctor. I'm sure he could give you valuable information/recommendations that carry much more stock than what anyone on this forum can give you.

[YellowSpike]

Yellowspike, perhaps you should email or talk to Dr. Monegal. He is extremely honest and has done more successful cases of cosmetic internal tibia lengthening than almost any other doctor. I'm sure he could give you valuable information/recommendations that carry much more stock than what anyone on this forum can give you.

Him and I have been talking. If Dr. Guichet won't change his mind on doing tibias on me (which still kind of scares me), Dr. Monegal is on my short list to do tibias (for just 1-1.5 inches tops) when the time comes.

[Uppland]

Him and I have been talking. If Dr. Guichet won't change his mind on doing tibias on me (which still kind of scares me), Dr. Monegal is on my short list to do tibias (for just 1-1.5 inches tops) when the time comes.

Surgeons will do (and thus recommend) what procedures they are proficient at, Guichet doesn't do tibias but that doesn't mean it is dangerous in and of itself.

[YellowSpike]

Surgeons will do (and thus recommend) what procedures they are proficient at, Guichet doesn't do tibias but that doesn't mean it is dangerous in and of itself.

You are right, but I believe Dr. Guichet does do tibias. At least, based on the conversations I've had with him, it sounds like he does (but he seems to strongly prefer femurs, and does femurs 95% of the time). If he does do tibias, I have no idea what method he uses.

[KiloKAHN]

Dr Birkholtz also seems a safe option for internal tibias if you want to go that route.

[Taller]

I think it's also worth mentioning that if one goes into therapy with the attitude that it definitely won't work, then you destroy any chance it may have had of working before you even start. You have to believe that it may fix your height neurosis, or at least put your insecurity vs how much height alone actually affects you into perspective.

[Uppland]

I think it's also worth mentioning that if one goes into therapy with the attitude that it definitely won't work, then you destroy any chance it may have had of working before you even start. You have to believe that it may fix your height neurosis, or at least put your insecurity vs how much height alone actually affects you into perspective.

As strange as this may sound, you also have to want it. You need to really try and not expect the shrink to work some kind of magic.

[chsn]

My dad begged me to go to psychologist in Stockholm last week, as a try to change y mind about LL...did nothing for me...After a session of 45 minutes I was 90 euros lighter and more determine the ever to do CLL

[Uppland]

My dad begged me to go to psychologist in Stockholm last week, as a try to change y mind about LL...did nothing for me...After a session of 45 minutes I was 90 euros lighter and more determine the ever to do CLL

Are you swedish then?

We make up like a third of all LL patients

[chsn]

Haha dude u already asked me that, im the one who gave u the stretching instructions...."memory like a goldfish" as we say in Sweden 

[Uppland]

Haha dude u already asked me that, im the one who gave u the stretching instructions...."memory like a goldfish" as we say in Sweden 

Sorry mate, I'm like that with names

[alps]

I sincerely appreciate everyone's kind words. Thank you.

Nothing will change the way I feel. No amount of therapy or positive speaking is going to make a difference. It's a bit funny, though, how some people on here taller than me (who also want LL) are trying to tell me that 5'8" is ok. I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I mean, you guys are above 5'9"...you don't even really need LL, but I respect everyone's choice to do as they please (I know everyone has their particular reasons).

Whenever you hear articles and the media talk about "short men"...it's usually men under 5'8" or (I would argue more often) men under 5'9". Unlike many on here, I have had the short label my entire life, and I don't want it anymore. 5'8" is still objectively short by these standards (anything under 5'9", based on online dating, Hollywood "short male celeb" lists, articles that talk about how being short for men sucks always use 5'9" as the cutoff). After all I've been through, I will not settle for anything less than 5'9".

I just don't know how I'm going to pull off tibias without destroying my career. I'm not rich (though I can afford a second LL in cash right now) or have parents paying for my surgery or run my own company. I'm an average joe (maybe slightly above average, financially). I just wish I knew of a diary of someone who did a small amount on tibias (like 3.5-4cm tops) using an internal method, and how they recovered. I need this sh*t to be as fast as possible. Pain doesn't mean a thing to me, it's just the time factor.

Couldn't you take a sabbatical? I thought taking sabbaticals was way easier for experienced guys.

[YellowSpike]

Couldn't you take a sabbatical? I thought taking sabbaticals was way easier for experienced guys.

I did that at my prior job, and was very lucky I had a supportive environment. I may be able to do that at this new job, but I'd need to be there a while longer. If I did 2cm or so in femurs, however (and don't say it's not worth it, it actually does make a difference, because then my evening height would be my morning height, about 5'9"), I'd be able to bang that out using just vacation.

I'm very torn between the two situations. I want to do tibias, but I'm scared of how long they seem to take to consolidate, even for short lengthening amounts. I would only do 3.5-4cm tops to keep the risks in check.

[Taller]

I'd say that doing tibs and spending a little longer consolidating and the short term employment-related consequences that come with it are very worth it considering the potential pemanent muscle weakness and bad proportions associated with 10CM on femurs. Another patient did 11CM on femurs and got knee pain that only went away after he lengthened tibiae. His doctor specifically said that it was due to the unnatural ratios. His starting height was 5'10, so 10CM on femurs might do the same to you. Plus, based on your proportions pics, if you do tibs, you'll look better imo, while longer femurs will make you look worse. You'll be that way for the rest of your life so I'd recommend thinking long term.

If you do under 5CM, consolation shouldn't be too bad, and there's always stem cell injection therapy if it is. I've heard good things about the Ignite stem cell bone repair procedure.

[microman]

yeah don't do more femurs lol

[theuprising]

Yellowspike

I read your diary from when you said you would never do another LL to this point where your determined to do more. As you mentioned you are a perfectionist you will have to factor in arm lengthening at some point if you choose to lengthen more on your legs. Height over 5cm on wingspan looks bad and I don't think you are the type who would tolerate t-rex arms.

[YellowSpike]

If I do tibias, it's gonna be 4cm tops. I really only want an inch more, but if I'm breaking my tibs, might as well get at least 3.5-4cm.

And I would never do arm lengthening. I'm a perfectionist, but this has to stop at some point. Maybe I'll literally just do an inch on my tibs. I still think I wouldn't need arm lengthening even with 4cm added to tibs. My wingspan is 172-173, so 3-4cm over I don't think will warrant arm lengthening.