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[Superfueled]

Hi everyone! 

(since there's no official introduction thread, I'm just going to try and weave one together in here along with my questions)

I just joined the forum today and would like to start off by saying that I'm glad to be here! I'm honestly pretty excited to start interacting with this community and learn about LL from some people who have some more knowledge about this topic and can perhaps answer some of my more specific questions about the procedure. Furthermore, I'd like to praise this community (at least from my first impression) as one of the more mature communities I've had the pleasure to come across over the interwebs. It feels very good to be apart of a group that isn't floating with trolls (As I'm sure they are always there) and is filled with people who share a lot of my emotions as well.

My Questions

So, here is where I ask my ultimate questions that have bewildered me throughout my time reading through these forums the past few days.

1) Who would be the utmost reputable doctors with the best success to work with?

2) What's the safest method to use in order to avoid complications whilst still keeping my goal in mind?

3) When do people start looking disproportionate after LL?  All I know is that I have a lot of muscle on my leg calves and thighs.

4) If all went well with little to no complications, would boxing and weightlifting at the gym still be viable?

5) And of course, what would be the safest way for me to obtain gaining 3.5 inches/9cm with the least complications?

All-in-all, what would your best advice be on considering such a procedure like this for someone like me? I know that I'm young and have many years to live, but I know that my youth is limited and I'd like to live it to it's fullest without having the mental stress of dealing with any of these problems when I get older. I'd honestly like to be able to walk into a bar/club without having to worry about being shot down because I'm not tall enough, or have to always worry about not taken seriously because I have a 'childish/younger' appearance.

Thanks again!

[Freewill]

1)Even the best of the Drs in LL can have negative results. But if money isnt issue for u then your best bet would be Dr.Guichet , Dr.Betz , Dr.Paley

2)there are basically 2 methods in LL i.e, External and Internal. both got their own pros and cons.But Internals are considered more safe when it comes for less infection problems and faster recovery rate.

3)Regarding proportion well it depends upon your own view. usually if tibias get longer than femurs it look disproportionate Plus it also depends upon your Wingspan. consult your Dr with this issue.

4)Weightlifting is possible at gym but Boxing specially professional boxing then i think nope just nope

[Superfueled]

When you state you think boxing is a nope? Are you stating you think 'professional boxing' is out of the ball-park or are you ruling boxing out altogether?

[Freewill]

When you state you think boxing is a nope? Are you stating you think 'professional boxing' is out of the ball-park or are you ruling boxing out altogether?

professional boxing for sure.

[Superfueled]

professional boxing for sure.

professional boxing for sure.

@Freewill,

Okay, than in that regard I'm fine with that. Not really looking to make a career out of professional.

On the other hand, regarding internals vs externals, what are their pros and cons?

[Superfueled]

Just updated OP to make it more specific. Decided to trim this to avoid making it a wall of post.

[Penguinn]

1) Who would be the utmost reputable doctors with the best success to work with?

Paley, Guichet, Betz.

2) What's the safest method to use in order to avoid complications whilst still keeping my goal in mind?

Externals for tibias, internals for femurs. Internals for femur are generally safer and more comfortable. The PRECICE nail method seems great to me.

3) When do people start looking disproportionate after LL? I'd like to gain about 4 inches but don't know if gaining that much height would work well with my body frame. All I know is that I have a lot of muscle on my leg calves and thighs.

Depends on your proportions. If you have a long torso, long arms and short legs, 4 inches won't look bad at all. Nobody can say until you post a picture. 4 inches in one bone segment is a tad gutsy and might require 2 LLs. (one for femur, one for tibia)

4) If all went well with little to no complications, would boxing and weightlifting at the gym still be viable?

Weight lifting, running, gym- yes. Boxing? Nope. Longer legs will increase your centre of gravity, and you'll get knocked out more easily in boxing. Your balance might not be as good. If you go into LL, do not go in expecting the best case scenario- that's foolish. I think a guy called Sweden here is an athlete and he seems to have recovered well. Talk to him.

All-in-all, what would your best advice be on considering such a procedure like this for someone like me? I know that I'm young and have many years to live, but I know that my youth is limited and I'd like to live it to it's fullest without having the mental stress of dealing with any of these problems when I get older. I'd honestly like to be able to walk into a bar/club without having to worry about being shot down because I'm not tall enough, or have to always worry about not taken seriously because I have a 'childish/younger' appearance.

How tall are you? LL requires a lot of time, money, endurance and some risk bearing. Make sure it's worthwhile.

[Superfueled]

4)Weightlifting is possible at gym but Boxing specially professional boxing then i think nope just nope

When you state you think boxing is a nope? Are you stating you think 'professional boxing' is out of the ball-park or are you ruling boxing out altogether?

Weight lifting, running, gym- yes. Boxing? Nope. Longer legs will increase your centre of gravity, and you'll get knocked out more easily in boxing.

Well, this certainly just got more controversial.

Data:

Age: 18 Year Old Male
Education: Still in Highschool (woo!)
Current Height: 5 ft 5.5
Desired Height: 5 ft 9, (honestly though, I don't really know yet.)
Weight: 136 Pounds
Wingspan: ?? (I don't know how to figure this out )

[Metanoia]

1)Even the best of the Drs in LL can have negative results. But if money isnt issue for u then your best bet would be Dr.Guichet , Dr.Betz , Dr.Paley

I was just wondering why you recommend those doctors. Do you know them or did you just recommend them because they are well known? Betz among the best doctors? Are you kidding?

[Freewill]

I was just wondering why you recommend those doctors. Do you know them or did you just recommend them because they are well known? Betz among the best doctors? Are you kidding?

High amount of patients with success. the only negative case i came across from Betz patients list is that of "MasteryHY". but i do admit that Betz nail isnt stable concerning weight bearing unlike its competitor The G-nail or guichet nail.

[MRbones]

rubbish. you didn't even bother to research bets.

1 patient with problems.  haha what a joke.

as an example....... 
Re: Daigoro - Internal Femurs - Dr. Betz - 2013 - Height Up! 

dr bets is a really bad option.

even if your nail doesn't break your legs will bend, because the nail bends before it snaps.
just look at apotheosis x-rays for tibia. his tibia bones are bent along with the nail.

----------------

my 2 cents.

guitch apparently can lengthen along the mechanical axis, don't know it its true but it is claimed.
precise lengthens along the anatomical axis which means your knees end up closer.

I think guitch is superior and is weight bearing.

[microman]

9cm is really pushing the limits, i think the most people have generally done on tibia has been 7cm, but i have seen 9cm with internal femur.

how about doing 2x LL 5cm per segment, your post didn't exactly state that it had to be one bone segment.

wishing for 9cm complication free is a dream no one gets, generally going beyong 5cm brings complications its 10x safer to do 2x LL of 5cm.

its a tough decision we all make, to decide upon extreme lengthening of one leg, or moderate lengthening of both legs, each has its good and bad points.

be sure to measure your wingspan, look it up and report back.

[maximize]

I think if you're going over 3 inches you're best off in the long run having it spread over both femurs and tibias. There are no long term studies I'm aware of but it seems reasonable to assume we will suffer negative consequences to our knees and hips if we lengthen just one segment excessively. The alteration to the mechanics becomes quite considerable.

I only want 3", but I'm even debating doing 2" femur, 1" tibia. It's tough work doing all four segments though and with every added operation you potentially invite further mishaps.

Monegal/Baumgart and the whole Fitbone team seem to promote this perspective of spreading lengthening to maintain proportion. It just leads to horribly long recovery times with their nonweightbearing nails...

[Superfueled]

rubbish. you didn't even bother to research bets.

1 patient with problems.  haha what a joke.

as an example....... 
Re: Daigoro - Internal Femurs - Dr. Betz - 2013 - Height Up! 

dr bets is a really bad option.

even if your nail doesn't break your legs will bend, because the nail bends before it snaps.
just look at apotheosis x-rays for tibia. his tibia bones are bent along with the nail.

----------------

my 2 cents.

guitch apparently can lengthen along the mechanical axis, don't know it its true but it is claimed.
precise lengthens along the anatomical axis which means your knees end up closer.

I think guitch is superior and is weight bearing.

When you refer to nail what exactly do you mean? So far, I've learned and seen about two treatments. The external ilizarov method where you deal with pins (prone to infection from what I've seen) and the internal rod method that rozbruch uses on a good bit on his patients. But nail and bending? What does that mean?

[maximize]

When you refer to nail what exactly do you mean? So far, I've learned and seen about two treatments. The external ilizarov method where you deal with pins (prone to infection from what I've seen) and the internal rod method that rozbruch uses on a good bit on his patients. But nail and bending? What does that mean?

Internal "rods" are frequently referred to as self-extending or racheting "nails". So that's all the same thing.

[Metanoia]

High amount of patients with success. the only negative case i came across from Betz patients list is that of "MasteryHY". but i do admit that Betz nail isnt stable concerning weight bearing unlike its competitor The G-nail or guichet nail.

Check this out. It might enlighten you: 

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=132.msg16324#msg16324




I have read all the Dr.Betz diaries on old forum  and would like to share my findings:There are currently 38 topics under the "Dr.Betz diaries" folder. 5 of them can't be used for this analysis: David-internal femurs, S-internal tiabias, Measurements, Nctham1, and Iwill. David cancelled his surgery, Nctham is not doing cosmetic LL and the other 3 don't contain enough information.This leaves 33 cases, which is not a small sample and quite representative since these cases cover a long time span(over 8 years).within this sample there are 12 patients  with confirrmed complications that required additional surgery:1. Romegas (titanium replacement in 1 leg, reason unknown)2. Tallix (titanium replacement in 1 leg due to delayed bone healing)3. TibAndFemur (Nail bending)4. Stillyoung (Nail bending/breaking)5. Geheimes (Nail malfunction, bone rebroken and nail taken out and repaired)6. Tall (Nail bending)7. Badboy (Nail malfunction, nail exchanged, broken screw)8. MasterHY ( wound opened and got infected, infected tissue removed surgically)9. T.dot (nail malfunction twice. Twice nail replacement)10. OldieButGoldie (2 broken screws)11. Andrewshizzles (broken nail)12. Apotheosis tibia (broken nail and delayed/non-union)Further there are 5 diaries which end abruptly and have a high probability that the patient got a complication:a. Timone (complains in his last post about bad bone consolidation)b. Torontonian (vanishes very early during his lengthening)c. Aymahano (has a lot of problems and vanishes)d. NoSleep (vanishes just after finished clicking, was the 1st patient to use the new 11mm Betzbone)e. DcLongFemurs (vanishes after finishing clicking, also has the 11mm Betzbone)Are the others without complication? For my calculation i will assume so, but of course we cannot be 100% sure since we know that Other patients have tried to hide their complications. What's worth mentioning is that Lucky did have a nail malfunction. However she chose to stop lengthening at that point and therefore didn't undergo additional surgery. But she didn't reach her goal.Also important is the vanishing of MasterHY. He had already a complication, but from his diary it is obvious that he has had a lot more problems. In my opinion he could very well have a dangerous bone infection.Anyhow, due to the analysis we come to the following result:Complication rate for Dr. Betz patients in our sample is between 36% and 52%. 36% is the best case scenario, 52% is the scenario where the 5 abruptly ending diaries all have had complications.The real figure probably lies between both numbers in case some of those 5 didn't have complications.

[Superfueled]

Check this out. It might enlighten you: 

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=132.msg16324#msg16324




I have read all the Dr.Betz diaries on old forum  and would like to share my findings:There are currently 38 topics under the "Dr.Betz diaries" folder. 5 of them can't be used for this analysis: David-internal femurs, S-internal tiabias, Measurements, Nctham1, and Iwill. David cancelled his surgery, Nctham is not doing cosmetic LL and the other 3 don't contain enough information.This leaves 33 cases, which is not a small sample and quite representative since these cases cover a long time span(over 8 years).within this sample there are 12 patients  with confirrmed complications that required additional surgery:1. Romegas (titanium replacement in 1 leg, reason unknown)2. Tallix (titanium replacement in 1 leg due to delayed bone healing)3. TibAndFemur (Nail bending)4. Stillyoung (Nail bending/breaking)5. Geheimes (Nail malfunction, bone rebroken and nail taken out and repaired)6. Tall (Nail bending)7. Badboy (Nail malfunction, nail exchanged, broken screw)8. MasterHY ( wound opened and got infected, infected tissue removed surgically)9. T.dot (nail malfunction twice. Twice nail replacement)10. OldieButGoldie (2 broken screws)11. Andrewshizzles (broken nail)12. Apotheosis tibia (broken nail and delayed/non-union)Further there are 5 diaries which end abruptly and have a high probability that the patient got a complication:a. Timone (complains in his last post about bad bone consolidation)b. Torontonian (vanishes very early during his lengthening)c. Aymahano (has a lot of problems and vanishes)d. NoSleep (vanishes just after finished clicking, was the 1st patient to use the new 11mm Betzbone)e. DcLongFemurs (vanishes after finishing clicking, also has the 11mm Betzbone)Are the others without complication? For my calculation i will assume so, but of course we cannot be 100% sure since we know that Other patients have tried to hide their complications. What's worth mentioning is that Lucky did have a nail malfunction. However she chose to stop lengthening at that point and therefore didn't undergo additional surgery. But she didn't reach her goal.Also important is the vanishing of MasterHY. He had already a complication, but from his diary it is obvious that he has had a lot more problems. In my opinion he could very well have a dangerous bone infection.Anyhow, due to the analysis we come to the following result:Complication rate for Dr. Betz patients in our sample is between 36% and 52%. 36% is the best case scenario, 52% is the scenario where the 5 abruptly ending diaries all have had complications.The real figure probably lies between both numbers in case some of those 5 didn't have complications.

This information is reassuring! Are there any worse stories than those of which you mentioned who perhaps had real bad experiences with Betz? Furthermore, is there any doctors 'second-up' to Betz which are perhaps a bit cheaper? I realize that it's not probable to get a 'perfect' doctor, but I'd like to atleast get one that can work with me financially and has a good reputation at that.