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[TIBIKE200]

tbike,

what is my assumption??? please  point out my baseless assumption.. I didn't even assert anything.. 

Please point  it out directly from my post.

thatdude, I tend to agree with you.. Certainly though, we can't conclude that people disappear because everything is great... we just don't know...

all we have are diaries... and a large number don't turn out great...

Your assumption is that the vast majority of people who undergo LL end up bad. We dont know that

[crimsontide]

thatdude makes a good point about being hopeful during the recovery process... I can confirm this

Patients might have complications, but since  recovery is not complete, and they seem to be getting better, they assume that the final  outcome will be positive, and post how great things are going

it's only after 2 or 3 years,  when you still have lingering issues,  and you finally realize things aren't going to end up as imagined... then awareness sets in and you  finally start to accept the   ty reality of the whole ordeal

[crimsontide]

tbike... I said diaries.,... since that's all we have to go on


and that's true...   most diaries don't end up  that positive.... even the so called great outcomes are full of guys at 70 or 80%...

guys that can't run, etc

all we have are diaries, like it or not


Let's see these videos of patients   running effortlessly, etc after lengthening 7 cm

I see swden, who admits he's nowhere near what he was

we see rgkey... who can't do 1  full squat with 90 lbs on his back, yet he says he's doing great

that's the thing...  we have evidence of  patients that say they're great yet  are not really functional

that should be a red flag

look at rgkey's squat video, and tell me if that's acceptable to you as a young man..

if it is,  then maybe this surgery is right for you.... it's not acceptable to me, and I think to the vast majority of readers

[TIBIKE200]

tbike... I said diaries.,... since that's all we have to go on


and that's true...   most diaries don't end up  that positive.... even the so called great outcomes are full of guys at 70 or 80%...

guys that can't run, etc

all we have are diaries, like it or not


Let's see these videos of patients   running effortlessly, etc after lengthening 7 cm

I see swden, who admits he's nowhere near what he was

we see rgkey... who can't do 1  full squat with 90 lbs on his back, yet he says he's doing great

that's the thing...  we have evidence that patients that say they're great  are not really functional

that should be a red flag

look at rgkey's squat video, and tell me if that's acceptable to you as a young man..

if it is,  then maybe this surgery is right for you.... it's not acceptable to me, and I think to the vast majority of readers

 I just saw the squat video and I am indeed in a complete shock... SMITH MACHINE!!!! LIKE REALLY?!?!?! WHAT ARE YOU A 10 YEARS OLD GIRL OR SOMETHING?!
  And on the serious note, his photo post removal was great... He didnt listen to the doc and he lengthened 9 cm.. Another thing on the squat vid, his legs are super thin.. He might also be a half squatter like 90% of gym goers

[crimsontide]

tbike.

I don't mean to pick on rgkey either... but people were saying how great he looks, etc

The guy does not do 1 squat with like 90 lbs... not even close.... and he looks like he's in pain doing it

there are half squatters, but that's a very light weight... and he looks like he's in serious pain... not normal for such a young man

 

[TIBIKE200]

tbike.

I don't mean to pick on rgkey either... but people were saying how great he looks, etc

The guy does not do 1 squat with like 90 lbs... not even close.... and he looks like he's in pain doing it

there are half squatters, but that's a very light weight... and he looks like he's in serious pain... not normal for such a young man

About pain we can't know. I can tell you that in my gym I see young people struggeling with 40kgs on the smith machine while I watch them from aside with my awsome 130kg squats

[YellowSpike]

thatdude makes a good point about being hopeful during the recovery process... I can confirm this

Patients might have complications, but since  recovery is not complete, and they seem to be getting better, they assume that the final  outcome will be positive, and post how great things are going

it's only after 2 or 3 years,  when you still have lingering issues,  and you finally realize things aren't going to end up as imagined... then awareness sets in and you  finally start to accept the  crapty reality of the whole ordeal

You may be right. You make a very valid point.

I'm still very hopeful because Dr. G told me from day one that full recovery (including soft tissue flexibility) can take several years. And my only real issues are soft tissue tightness (which has been improving) and the left screw issue (which will go away once it's taken out or adjusted). I can run, but it's a bit funny due to hip flexor/quad tightness, but my legs feel more than strong enough.

[Ozymandias]

I am challanging anybody to give link to a diary from Mitkovic or Guichet (excluding that crazy asian dude who did 10cm) who reported problems aftewards.

I am yet to find a negative diariy from Mitkovic..and there are plenty of diaries overall.

Do you consider this acceptable?:
http://imgur.com/pqSwjPB

Monorail without internal nail is a misalignment waiting to happen.

I think that for proportion purposes lengthening tibias is MUCH better. The average person has no clue that the femurs are supposed to be onger so he will notice 2 bones that are similar and will not think anything is wrong

The average person doesn't give a crap about tibia height. No one outside this forum is judging height basing on tibia/femur relation. For the 99,99% of the world's population a 175cm guy with 36cm tibias and 45cm femurs looks EXACTLY as tall as a 175cm guy with 39cm tibias and 42cm femurs.

[crimsontide]

hey yellow,

it definitely takes a few years... I don't positive info too much, but I do notice  now I seem to be walking quite a bit better, at least when doing short walks out of the cab,and around the store... I think there's a psychological aspect to it... I might post a video soon... so people can see...

I seem to even walk at a decent speed.....

soft tissue recovery for 7 cm definitely takes years

that's the part I was not prepared for... these dreams of hoping for a full recovery in 8 to 12 months are not realistic

I'm at like 17 0r 18 months... and achilles surgery  only 14 or 15 months ago...

I should probably be more optimistic... but I want 95% recovery....

 Members need to understand that being even 10% less than before is noticeable

[YellowSpike]

hey yellow,

it definitely takes a few years... I don't positive info too much, but I do notice  now I seem to be walking quite a bit better, at least when doing short walks out of the cab,and around the store... I think there's a psychological aspect to it... I might post a video soon... so people can see...

I seem to even walk at a decent speed.....

soft tissue recovery for 7 cm definitely takes years

that's the part I was not prepared for... these dreams of hoping for a full recovery in 8 to 12 months are not realistic

I'm at like 17 0r 18 months... and achilles surgery  only 14 or 15 months ago...

I should probably be more optimistic... but I want 95% recovery....

 Members need to understand that being even 10% less than before is noticeable

Yes. 100% this. I was expecting to be like 95% right now (just over a year after I stopped clicking). For the most part, I'm fine, but I'm really more like 70%-75% if I'm being super conservative and counting full athletic ability (I was never really an athlete, though I've always ran, swam and skied well).

Recoveries like ShyShy, I'll say again, are not the norm. I think I would have done better and be closer to him had it not been for my left screw issue and having to work right after clicking (and having no real breather to focus solely on walking normally after lengthening), but that wasn't the case, but I'm doing well now.

You will get there. This whole process just takes so much more time and is so much more demanding (physically, mentally, time wise, etc.) than people realize.

This surgery is not worth it if you are at least 5'9/5'10 to start with. I don't care where you live or how tall your siblings are...the world does NOT see you short at that height, it's all in your head! I understand part of the allure (at those starting heights) is that those guys can just do one surgery and get to the magical land of 6ft plus that makes all women cream their panties, but really, it's pretty rare for a woman to reject a guy solely based on his height starting 5'8" and up (and yes, I recognize the irony of what I'm saying given that I really want more LL for another inch, I just think 5'8" is a borderline height at the absolute best).

[Thatdude950]

with my awsome 130kg squats

must be sarcasm?

yellow + crimson, I hope that you guys do keep getting better as time goes on.

[paco1]

hi yellowspike, i think you should be very happy with 5,8 height.
That is 1.72, and with insole is a very good height. You will lose more athlety capability if you lengthen your tibias.
you should think that you lucky for that height and you don,t think in the person taller than you and yes in lot of persons and all womans are shorter than you.
good luck,cheers paco.

[KiloKAHN]

Microman has left the forum because he wants to move on with his life and doesn't want leg lengthening and height to become an addiction of his. Hopefully he'll return at some point to state how his recovery is coming along, but who knows.

[crimsontide]

agree with yellow

ty thatdude

paco, you mean tibias in general? or  just the fact that yellow has already lengthened 7 cm?

[YellowSpike]

must be sarcasm?

yellow + crimson, I hope that you guys do keep getting better as time goes on.

Thanks. I'm not doing badly, but not 100% yet. I will get there!

[Keep Growing]

all we have are diaries... and a large number don't turn out great...

Not sure if they don't turn out great, but many of them are left undocumented which is a pity. So then, what is the purpose of the forum if we cannot get a proper feedback from someone who did the surgery? I would really love to see all the diaries continued so that we can know all the aspects of the procedure and maybe advise the guys. Some advice given on this forum are to be taken into account event though they are not from qualified doctors.

[TIBIKE200]

The bagirov patient just came back 2 years later and said he is fine. I believe that's to be the case with most external tibias (After doing alot of research and seeing all the videos of rozbruch and paley and the other russian doctors and also alex's story of doc.Mon youtube) it is pretty obvious that external tibias with the right doc can get you very good results (unlike the internal femurs which I have yet to see a single good case... Probably because the internal method is pretty new).

 My only conclusion is that if you go and lengthen, do external tibias first with a good doc.

[YellowSpike]

Not sure if they don't turn out great, but many of them are left undocumented which is a pity. So then, what is the purpose of the forum if we cannot get a proper feedback from someone who did the surgery? I would really love to see all the diaries continued so that we can know all the aspects of the procedure and maybe advise the guys. Some advice given on this forum are to be taken into account event though they are not from qualified doctors.

Did you mean to compare internal tibias to external tibias, or external tibias to internal femurs?

Because you can do fine with internal femurs with the right doctor. I just think that internal femurs is harder on your soft tissues because you're stretching larger muscles and also because it involves your hip flexors (which many of us take for granted - I never will again).

I think lengthening tibias is easier on soft tissue, but it sucks that they just take so much longer to consolidate. I know one thing I greatly underestimated was how long it takes the soft tissues to recovery their flexibility. That's what has made my recover (and the stupid left screw issue) not be as great as it could be. I actually feel fine otherwise and my legs feel strong as never.

[crimsontide]

tbike... thats your conclusion based on 1 guy with no videos???

I had another patient of Bagirov pm me 2 weeks who still cant walk after 7 or 8 months... he's a member on this forum too


Almost everyone I talk to has tendon issues of some kind... whether it's internal femur or external tibia


 keep growing...I can give you advice.... Do not get this procedure... if you do 3 cm, maybe you'll be great, but is it really worth breaking your legs and losing a year of your life for 3 cm???  might as well as wear insoles and shoes with a nice heel

risk vs reward  isn't good for this procedure

[crimsontide]

yellow... if  tibial lengthening is easier on soft tissue... femurs must be a nightmare.... look at me, look at sweden

I hope I can jump again

[TIBIKE200]

tbike... thats your conclusion based on 1 guy with no videos???

I had another patient of Bagirov pm me 2 weeks who still cant walk after 7 or 8 months... he's a member on this forum too


Almost everyone I talk to has tendon issues of some kind... whether it's internal femur or external tibia


 keep growing...I can give you advice.... Do not get this procedure... if you do 3 cm, maybe you'll be great, but is it really worth breaking your legs and losing a year of your life for 3 cm???  might as well as wear insoles and shoes with a nice heel

risk vs reward  isn't good for this procedure

This patient did the procedure 7-8 months ago? If so, he needs to wait till frame removal. How much did he lengthen? Also recovery takes 1 year+
  Also, the bagirov's patient that said he is fine did post a video a while back but deleated it.

[crimsontide]

it's still 1 patient
I go by the numbers... it's not impossible to have a good outcome

maybe in the next year I'll improve enough to be considered good by some members, but I still wouldn't recommend this surgery

This surgery has  a serious complication rate  that is far above almost any other surgical procedure I can think of... and this is an elective surgery for healthy patients

if the serious complication rate was only 30%, that would still be an absurdly high rate for a cosmetic procedure.....

[TIBIKE200]

it's still 1 patient
I go by the numbers... it's not impossible to have a good outcome

maybe in the next year I'll improve enough to be considered good by some members, but I still wouldn't recommend this surgery

This surgery has  a serious complication rate  that is far above almost any other surgical procedure I can think of... and this is an elective surgery for healthy patients

if the serious complication rate was only 30%, that would still be an absurdly high rate for a cosmetic procedure.....

What do you consider as "serious" complication? Because for example the nerve damage is indeed serious but with a good surgeon is supposed to be extremely low.

[aspirant185]

I think people need to make trade offs. U cannot expect to be 100% as athletic as before the surgery. Hell, if u just break ur legs once without lengthening u will not be at 100%. Many great football players decline after routine breakage.

To me, if I am able to walk normally and jog, that is 100% acceptable. I am not the type of person who does ball sports. I go to the gym , but mainly focus on my upper body. You need to be realistic. My grandfather says - you cannot have both - the dck in the pussy and the soul in heaven You need to choose . Its a trade-off like soooo many things in life.

[YellowSpike]

yellow... if  tibial lengthening is easier on soft tissue... femurs must be a nightmare.... look at me, look at sweden

I hope I can jump again

Well it's just a hunch I have, given that femur lengthening not only tightens your quads, but also your hip flexors. Tibias, in a way, are more "local" surgery in that it's just your lower legs. But I could be totally off the mark, I don't know much about tibs.

If I do them, I'm doing a very small amount.

[YellowSpike]

I think people need to make trade offs. U cannot expect to be 100% as athletic as before the surgery. Hell, if u just break ur legs once without lengthening u will not be at 100%. Many great football players decline after routine breakage.

To me, if I am able to walk normally and jog, that is 100% acceptable. I am not the type of person who does ball sports. I go to the gym , but mainly focus on my upper body. You need to be realistic. My grandfather says - you cannot have both - the dck in the pussy and the soul in heaven You need to choose . Its a trade-off like soooo many things in life.

This is very true. I'm not much of an athlete per se. As long as I can still jog (which I can), weight train at the gym, swim and ski almost as well as prior to LL, I'm happy.

[crimsontide]

tbike...

if a normal healthy patient gets this surgery, and comes out at 90%, that to me is serious


you're taking a patient and making him  worse off medically than he was, and for cosmetic reasons

that's serious

[TIBIKE200]

tbike...

if a normal healthy patient gets this surgery, and comes out at 90%, that to me is serious


you're taking a patient and making him  worse off medically than he was, and for cosmetic reasons

that's serious

What do you consider 90%? I am willing to sacrifice some of my athletic abilities (I can even accept not doing deadlifts and squats with heavy weights). But for me, getting back 100% in terms of non athletic abilities (walking and short running for making it in time for the bus for example) is a must.

[crimsontide]

to me, 90% means you never even think of  going for a walk, or doing basic things... even jogging...

you don't think to yourself " ok, gotta   mentally prepare myself to go for a walk"

[TIBIKE200]

to me, 90% means you never even think of  going for a walk, or doing basic things... even jogging...

you don't think to yourself " ok, gotta   mentally prepare myself to go for a walk"

I agree with you 100%

[YellowSpike]

to me, 90% means you never even think of  going for a walk, or doing basic things... even jogging...

you don't think to yourself " ok, gotta   mentally prepare myself to go for a walk"

The only reason I have to sometimes mentally prepare myself (and crimson, I know exactly what you mean) is because of the stupid mutha f*cking left screw. My jogging aint bad at all...if it's still a bit funny looking, it's due to the fact that my left gluteus medius is still a bit weak (though I've forced myself to push through the pain when weight lifting, and the pain is only there with very specific angles and movements). But walking is effortless now and doesn't really require any mental preparing.

I honestly feel strong enough where I could have been closer to ShyShy had it not been for the left screw. I know I sound like a broken record, but I believe in my heart of hearts that's causing most of my remaining issues.