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[Rivers]

There are so many patients of Dr. Betz that develop major complications with the Betzbone!  Now we know Apotheosis is invested in Dr. Betz and the Betzbone.

Almost every single patient of Dr. Betz that I have ever met has broken or bent their nail or screws.  Almost every single patient!!

Dr. Betz advertises his nail as weight bearing but I don't believe it for one second.  He has used that as an advertising scam to make people think they will be mobile from the very beginning of lengthening and tells them to walk as much as possible.  When they walk as Dr. Betz tells them to they always break/bend their nails/screws and then require more surgery to fix the problem.  Oldiebutgoldie diary is the perfect example.  Andrewshizzles had titanium nail replacement and hid it from the entire community until someone noticed the difference in the x-rays and called him out on it.  Apotheosis completely broke his tibia nail almost a full year after his tibia surgery.

When you add up the cost of further surgery to fix the nail/screws or replace them altogether with the titanium nails it ends up costing way more than even the most expensive Dr. Paley.  It's a money making scam over there at the Betz Institute!

Update:  Dr Betz's respond in this post
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=24.msg6077#msg6077

[KiloKAHN]

How many patients of Dr. Betz have you met personally that can attest to this being a problem? Do you have a link/remember the page where someone pointed out the difference in Andrewshizzles nail replacement? I'm interested in delving deeper into this, especially since Dr. Betz has been on old forum 's recommended list since the beginning of the site.

Dr. Betz and Dr. Guichet seem to have something of a rivalry, which may explain why Guichet hasn't had a diary since the time Apotheosis bought old forum . It's funny, on the very first page of Apotheosis's internal tibias diary, he writes that Dr. Guichet told him "Would you rather do them (your tibias) now with Dr. Betz, or would you rather do them right?".

[Rivers]

Do you have a link/remember the page where someone pointed out the difference in Andrewshizzles nail replacement?

Here is the link- Page 15 of "Topic: Andrewshizzles - Internal Femurs - Dr Betz - 2011 - Blitzkrieg For 9 CM"

Look at the first and 5th post on the page.

[Adriano]

One of the reasons i considered Betz was because Apotheosis was able to work while he did his LL.

Now that we know Apo is advertising Betz I am starting to think that his working while LLing is a scam.
Maybe by work he meant sitting on his lazy ass and scamming LL hopefuls on old forum .

I really like how there r some smart guys out there. Sometimes I think to myself that " come on… it can’t be that bad" but then when u continue to see things that don’t tie in then u r left confused and really bothered.

Thanks for picking up why we don’t see many Guichet diaries.

I don’t blame Apo for promoting his business but he is doing it the dodgy way.

He is really doing his best to ensure that we don’t hear about other internal nails.

I have also just realized that Jamal's patients seem not to be updating their diaries  ha aha ha ahaha haha. Surely the guy does more cosmestic LLthan the 1 diaries we see crop up from him once a year!

Now that he wants or already has business with Dr Donghoon (or Lee) we start hearing about him and a detailed  diary also pops up and it turns out that the guy has something like 12 patients currently doing femur LL with precise.

I have learnt that in LIFE there is no smoke without fire.
not long ago all diaries where either Dr Sarin's or Betz. once in a while he would add  a different doctors diary lol.
Why, becuase he has/had business with these 2 doctors.

Now that he has business with Dr Siringari, there has been 3 or more diaries (some of them FAKE) from that doctor.

Why, because he has business with them.

I can assure u that he is trying to do business with Donghoon so early next year there will be many many diarries from the Dr.

He said he would even build a guest house for that doctor to bring prices down. Why ..out of his own good will!!!.....f*&%k   that crap.

[handy]

Building a guesthouse out of the goodness of his own heart is complete crap! He's such a fraud and liar! 

I disagree about Apotheosis doing business with Donghoon . The reason why is Donghoon already does surgery with the PRECICE and he is developing that new nail X-Tend so he has no need for Apotheosis and the Betzbone. Plus Korea is a rich country obsessed with technology where people can afford the high price-high tech PRECICE instead of the old tech-lower price leg ratcheting of the Betzbone.

On the other hand you have doctors in India like Sringari who need the Betzbone to attract patients who want that low price internal nail option. I'm sure there's other doctors in India that Apotheosis is trying to make money from by geting them the Betzbone so they can offer internal lengthening for cheap.

Maybe he'll even through in building a guest house to seal the deal 

[TomD]

I know we are mad at sysop and we some pretty drastic reasons to be pissed off. However, lets just stick with finding his real name and where he is. This way he can be held accountable by patients who are physically disfigured by doctors he had on his stupid 'endorsed list' and those who he made a commission off of.

But as for the actual doctors themselves, lets separate that. What if this 'Betz nail' is actually a good thing? We dont know. Let not write it off as a credit to us as patient just because sysop makes a cut off it.

If we can independently prove its good, we can tell Dr Betz it had nothing to do with sys and not to give him a cut from our patients.

[ChrisIsaak]

Hey guys,

I'm joining this website from the old forum. I've been a member there for quite a while, and to avoid giving out who I am, I have chosen a different nickname here. I intend to follow old forum  as well, and have no intention of getting banned there - hence the privacy.

I can guarantee 100% that the information here is correct, but please don't ask in detail. SysOP is indeed trying to sell the Betzbone to other doctors. That's all I can say. He didn't deny that he made an investment, so I'm okay with it so far.. However, I was troubled by the fact that the "Complications with Dr. Betz" thread was deleted. I don't exactly remember who opened it, but a few members realized that the thread was gone. Some patients, such as TibandFemur and OldieButGoldie, have had their nails or screws bent or broken. As of today, I have lost confidence in the Betz clinic. There are many diaries from Germany, true, and I trust German people in general. I however feel that Betz is sugarcoating LL a bit. Some other doctors, such as Guichet and Paley, have a more "no-nonsense" approach. I feel safer with an attitude like that, so I've changed my course.

My suggestion for this website's admins would be this: Copy old forum 's diaries and save them. If, for some reason, old forum  is shut down, we can keep them here as backup.

Open new sections. We need 2013 updates from every doctor. Let's prepare questions and tell the doctors that we have a new website, and demand updated information.

Another website (Imtallernow) was opened when old forum A shut down the old forum before handing it over to SysOP, but that forum didn't survive. If we want this forum to survive, we need to keep it very organized.

[handy]

Look at all the diaries from Dr. Betz on old forum . Basically everyone of them just end and you never hear from the patient again. The only post surgery video from Dr. Betz is Andrewshizzles and he tried to lie and hide the fact he had titanium nail replacement. I've heard so many people tell me that when they visited Dr. Betz they saw people with horrible complications that never get reported on old forum .

People who don't walk correctly even two years after surgery. People with permanent contractrues and nerve damage. Tons and tons of bent/broken nails and screws. Dr. Betz allows anyone and everyone to lengthen as much as they want and tells them to weight bear before they should. This leads to horrible problems for the patient.

I don't trust Dr. Betz and the Betzbone!

[Need2BTaller]

I definitely agree with ChrisIsaak.  Any good information in old forum  should be saved and be made public here in case if anything happens to old forum .  Aside from all of that Sysopotheosis fiasco, old forum  still carry more information pertaining to LL than any other place. 

[TomD]

Oh definitely.

I say whatever diaries we can get we take and put up here.

I also think the rules and the 'dos and dont's are also worth duplicating as it cuts down on the questions.

[Adriano]

Building a guesthouse out of the goodness of his own heart is complete crap! He's such a fraud and liar! 

I disagree about Apotheosis doing business with Donghoon . The reason why is Donghoon already does surgery with the PRECICE and he is developing that new nail X-Tend so he has no need for Apotheosis and the Betzbone. Plus Korea is a rich country obsessed with technology where people can afford the high price-high tech PRECICE instead of the old tech-lower price leg ratcheting of the Betzbone.

On the other hand you have doctors in India like Sringari who need the Betzbone to attract patients who want that low price internal nail option. I'm sure there's other doctors in India that Apotheosis is trying to make money from by geting them the Betzbone so they can offer internal lengthening for cheap.

Maybe he'll even through in building a guest house to seal the deal 

check out out this:
- Sarin builds or moves patients to a new guest house
- Sarin and Apotheosis/Syop have a fall out
- Dr Sarin is removed from old forum  in all kinds of form
- there is a new diary from a new LL Dr in India
- This new Dr sends his LL patients to a guest house
- staff at Dr Siringaris guest house have some connection with Dr Sarin
- these ex-staff of Dr Sarin start trash talking Dr Sarin
- Dr Siringari's guest house has the same equipment (gym), wall pantings, colours, etc AS DR SARINS OLD GUEST HOUSE!

a haaha ha a this so interesting.....WE  r being fooled....this guys is a classic...He is a business  and if u think his advice is honest then u have a lot of growing up to do.

This guy invests in LL Dr purely for his gain. I like that he is tryng to bring internal nails to india. I am also OK with him making money in the process. Lets face it there is no such thing as a free lunch.

What i hate about his processes is that he discredtis other LL Drs to promote the ones that he is in business with. The Dr Sarin, Dr Siringari, Phantom's Fake diary show his true colours.....

He is doing everything he can to ensure the HLN does not succeed. (at 35K and not making any cut from the profit his LL business will be over and he would have to go back to his old desk job he ehe h ehe eheeh )

I mentioned a day ago that he is limiting other internal LLpatients diaries with other doctors to a mimum level. the next day i saw that he had openned a new diary for a Jamal patient haaah a ha aha aha aha......

By the way, OldButGoldie, only kengthenned 5 cm and his equioment gave in!!! all the while ppl r being told they can do 10cm with betz and that the mechanism will still be wait bearing....a load of crap.

[Adriano]

Syop/Apotheosis gave the his guest house (Dr Sarins old guest house) to Dr Siringari.

[Carter]

He is doing everything he can to ensure the HLN does not succeed. (at 35K and not making any cut from the profit his LL business will be over and he would have to go back to his old desk job he ehe h ehe eheeh )

By the way, OldButGoldie, only kengthenned 5 cm and his equioment gave in!!! all the while ppl r being told they can do 10cm with betz and that the mechanism will still be wait bearing....a load of crap.

Ah see, now I have realized that the Betz nail is actually not as good as they claimed.  And we really can start building a database of RELIABLE and HONEST doctors here who are NOT using the Betz nail.     Everyone should have a safe limb lengthening surgery as top priority, if they can do that without the Betz nail, even better.   

[TomD]

Hey .

This is why I was so mad to the point of foaming at the mouth. I have since decided to simply find out his name and make sure the clients who go to old forum  are aware he is a salseman, not some objective facilitator of a website. They need to know if they go through the 'approved doctor list' , Sysop may get a commission and that needs to be disclosed right up front.

I am no socialist. I believe in the free market. What made me so mad was he was pretending to be a non profit non biased guru here to help . We arent talking about buying a used car here. We are talking about busting our legs for christs sakes. If he steers us to a quack, we may never walk again.

And that to me, makes what he is doing very serious.

[Muse]

I have contact with one of Dr Betz patient,  here's the feedback on the Betz nails.

" The 13mm nail is much more safe.  I agree the 11mm nails frequently break and bend and there should be a better 11mm nail available. There is certainly no issue with the 13mm nail from what I have seen. "
 

[handy]

I have contact with one of Dr Betz patient,  here's the feedback on the Betz nails.

" The 13mm nail is much more safe.  I agree the 11mm nails frequently break and bend and there should be a better 11mm nail available. There is certainly no issue with the 13mm nail from what I have seen. "
 

This quote is very misleading! Very few people have the bone canal to naturally support the full 13mm nail. The only way Dr. Betz can make enough room for the 13mm nail is to ream the inside of your bone far more than is recommended for someone whose bone canal should have the 11mm nail.

There are plenty of patients who have had the 13mm and still bent or broke the nails and screws. Dr. Betz simply has his patients weight bear too early and often regardless of the diameter of the nail that is used for lengthening. There are so many examples within the Dr. Betz diaries (both hidden and out in the open) and countless more when you visit Dr. Betz in Germany and talk with his patients.

[handy]

I should mention this extra reaming of the bone by Dr. Betz to implant the 13mm for patients who request/beg for the larger diameter nail when they should have the 11mm nail is very dangerous. This is why the PRECICE 2 is producing a 8.5mm nail to support people whose bone canal is too small for even the 10.5mm nail they currently offer. It's not as simple as just reaming more bone canal to make room for the larger diameter nail. Reaming the bone canal more than it should drastically increases the risk to the patient during surgery, during lengthening and during recovery.

This is why people should consult with a number of doctors before proceeding with surgery with Dr. Betz. It is well known among other LL surgeons that Dr. Betz cuts corners and puts patients at risk far more than is reported on any lengthening forum.

[Muse]

This quote is very misleading! Very few people have the bone canal to naturally support the full 13mm nail. The only way Dr. Betz can make enough room for the 13mm nail is to ream the inside of your bone far more than is recommended for someone whose bone canal should have the 11mm nail.

There are plenty of patients who have had the 13mm and still bent or broke the nails and screws. Dr. Betz simply has his patients weight bear too early and often regardless of the diameter of the nail that is used for lengthening. There are so many examples within the Dr. Betz diaries (both hidden and out in the open) and countless more when you visit Dr. Betz in Germany and talk with his patients.

Interesting, if you combine that with the information in "Creepy: old forum  stillyoung's disappearance" thread, it starts to paint a clearer picture about the Betz nail.   

[Metanoia]

Hello everybody. I'm new to this forum and quite happy there is no censorship like on old forum . By the way, if anybody still doesn't know: Apotheosis and Sysop are the same person. His name is Anderson and he is currently trying to lengthen his arms with Dr. Betz and having a lot of complications. Rumors are that Betz does the armlengthening for free to him, due to their business relationship.
As for the Betzbone nail, there exist several versions but none is as good as the Albizzia used to be. Since around 2011 Betz has no longer access to the Albizzia and is therefore using his patients as guinea pigs for his own developed nails.
The % of complications with Betz for Femur patients is currently around 30%. For Tibia it is even much worse. Dr. Betz is constantly lying to hs patients and actually gets very unfriendly if you ask too many questions. He is well protected by the rotten German law system, which is massively in favor of doctors.

Stay away from Dr.Betz, no matter which nail he uses.

[An_Apple_A_Day]

Hello everybody. I'm new to this forum and quite happy there is no censorship like on old forum . By the way, if anybody still doesn't know: Apotheosis and Sysop are the same person. His name is Anderson and he is currently trying to lengthen his arms with Dr. Betz and having a lot of complications. Rumors are that Betz does the armlengthening for free to him, due to their business relationship.
As for the Betzbone nail, there exist several versions but none is as good as the Albizzia used to be. Since around 2011 Betz has no longer access to the Albizzia and is therefore using his patients as guinea pigs for his own developed nails.
The % of complications with Betz for Femur patients is currently around 30%. For Tibia it is even much worse. Dr. Betz is constantly lying to hs patients and actually gets very unfriendly if you ask too many questions. He is well protected by the rotten German law system, which is massively in favor of doctors.

Stay away from Dr.Betz, no matter which nail he uses.

This is madness three separate surgeries?  That's madness in anybody's book.

He always seems to discourage AL too when people suggest it.

Man alive the guy has spent a lot on getting bigger!

[KiloKAHN]

Hello everybody. I'm new to this forum and quite happy there is no censorship like on old forum . By the way, if anybody still doesn't know: Apotheosis and Sysop are the same person. His name is Anderson and he is currently trying to lengthen his arms with Dr. Betz and having a lot of complications. Rumors are that Betz does the armlengthening for free to him, due to their business relationship.
As for the Betzbone nail, there exist several versions but none is as good as the Albizzia used to be. Since around 2011 Betz has no longer access to the Albizzia and is therefore using his patients as guinea pigs for his own developed nails.
The % of complications with Betz for Femur patients is currently around 30%. For Tibia it is even much worse. Dr. Betz is constantly lying to hs patients and actually gets very unfriendly if you ask too many questions. He is well protected by the rotten German law system, which is massively in favor of doctors.

Stay away from Dr.Betz, no matter which nail he uses.

Holy...seriously?

Sysop is a clear example of someone with extreme body dysmorphic disorder. I mean we all have it to some degree since we're on a forum for LLing, but this is going way overboard. He's already completely disregarded safety in how much he's allegedly lengthened already.

[TomD]

Hello everybody. I'm new to this forum and quite happy there is no censorship like on old forum . By the way, if anybody still doesn't know: Apotheosis and Sysop are the same person. His name is Anderson and he is currently trying to lengthen his arms with Dr. Betz and having a lot of complications. Rumors are that Betz does the armlengthening for free to him, due to their business relationship.
As for the Betzbone nail, there exist several versions but none is as good as the Albizzia used to be. Since around 2011 Betz has no longer access to the Albizzia and is therefore using his patients as guinea pigs for his own developed nails.
The % of complications with Betz for Femur patients is currently around 30%. For Tibia it is even much worse. Dr. Betz is constantly lying to hs patients and actually gets very unfriendly if you ask too many questions. He is well protected by the rotten German law system, which is massively in favor of doctors.

Stay away from Dr.Betz, no matter which nail he uses.

Hi Mime and welcome ! 

Is 'Anderson' his first name or last name? If you have any further information regarding him  pls PM me or 'Dameon' . We plan to expose him for illegal steering of innocent patients while pretending to be an objective administrator of the other site.

As for Betz, do you know of any patients who would be willing to come here and tell us what happened? Let me know

[alps]

Hello everybody. I'm new to this forum and quite happy there is no censorship like on old forum . By the way, if anybody still doesn't know: Apotheosis and Sysop are the same person. His name is Anderson and he is currently trying to lengthen his arms with Dr. Betz and having a lot of complications. Rumors are that Betz does the armlengthening for free to him, due to their business relationship.
As for the Betzbone nail, there exist several versions but none is as good as the Albizzia used to be. Since around 2011 Betz has no longer access to the Albizzia and is therefore using his patients as guinea pigs for his own developed nails.
The % of complications with Betz for Femur patients is currently around 30%. For Tibia it is even much worse. Dr. Betz is constantly lying to hs patients and actually gets very unfriendly if you ask too many questions. He is well protected by the rotten German law system, which is massively in favor of doctors.

Stay away from Dr.Betz, no matter which nail he uses.

Thanks for coming here and telling us all this Mime.
But you would need to tell us how you found all this out too.
If you went as far as finding his name, your source of information is very important here.
Thank you

[bob101]

I was told the new 20 click 11mm betzbone nail is supposed to be almost as strong as the old 15 click 13mm betzbone. Has anyone heard anything about the new 11mm betzbone nail bending or breaking?

[randoma]

If you want to know whether Dr. Betz is reliable or not, ask these questions during your consultation.

There is no way anyone can get accurate facts about any doctor unless you gather all his previous patients(which is impossible)
Also being shown some patients who say good about the result should not add to the credibility of this doctor when you have a consultation. Bear this in mind.

You can decide it for yourself.

1. Tell him that you are recording this consultation just to be safe. (this is very important. imagine something happens later and you don't have a proof that you've been misled. And he should agree to this if not.... well.)

2. Ask him which company manufactures the Betzbone.(its name and location)
    a) its material
    b) whether it has any government-body approval on it or CE marking like Guichetbone
        U.S FDA approved Precice nail and its manufacturer is Ellipse technology(which you can google and find out)
                AND NOT about pending Patents. Pending patents does not mean it is medically safe. You can request patents for something that goes into iPhone.
    c) its weight bearing capacity and THE SOURCE OF that claim.(if he cites his own blah, ask for the documentation)
         also the extent of the weight bearing capacity.
3. The rate of complication for cosmetic limb lengthening by dr. Betz. Have it written down with his official signature.
    Bending, breakage. etc... also separate by categories 11mm,13mm , men or women, femur or tibia... with which nail, albizzia or betzbone...
    AND it does not matter if he says the reasons for most complications were due to the patients, if the number is high itself. that means he was not careful in satisfactorily informing the patients. (there is no way you can trust what I say but I second that claim the complication rate is closer to 30~40% for all his patients...)
    if he can't answer to #2, then this question about complication rate and official documentation shouldn't be a problem unless there IS a problem)

4. if you can speak German, ask around in the hopsital he practises, not the Komfort Clinic(it is not a medical clicnic but rather a private hotel with nurses equipped placed next to a real hospital). Well, if you can ask like five doctors, do it. also even if remotely related to orthopedics.

ASK THIS "IN YOUR OPINION, IS DR BETZ AN ETHICAL DOCTOR?".

they are on his payroll... so just watch their reaction. If Dr.Betz is a great doctor as is claimed by so many on the diary,  The reaction should be very uniformly warm and blah even though they do not agree with the idea of cosmetic limb lengthening.)


It is a big surgery and if he does not want to give you satisfactory asnwers... for that matter any doctors doing this procedure, just skip that doctor. The doctors should have no problem giving you asnwers unless he wants to hide something.

Also if you have the money to do internals with DR.Betz, surely you can afford Dr. Guichet or even DR.Paley. I can't say which one is an ethical doctor but please do have consultations with all of them. And also dont forget to ask whether prospective doctor has treated any complication case from other doctors(also details about them)


Best wishes.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

    AND it does not matter if he says the reasons for most complications were due to the patients, if the number is high itself. that means he was not careful in satisfactorily informing the patients. (there is no way you can trust what I say but I second that claim the complication rate is closer to 30~40% for all his patients...)

Actually, I think it does matter if the reasons for most complications were due to patient stupidity.  I was in Beijing during the height of its popularity as a clinic.  We had between 20 and 30 foreign patients there at any given time as vets finished and newbies arrived.  I couldn't believe some of the stupid sh*t I saw people doing there.  A guy walking all around the whole place, without crutches, ONE DAY after his frame removal/IM nail fixation when the doctors told him to stay in bed for one week and only walk to the toilet with the nurse's help.  A really petite girl turning 1.3mm a day when she was already past 7cm and having pain/mobility problems, when the doctors told her to turn no more than .67mm a day because they were worried she'd snap one of her tiny tendons.  So yeah, 30% patient-induced complications sounds about right to me.

[alps]

radoma, but I'm afraid many famous doctors are arrogant. Even if they're legit, they'll think we're questioning their integrity.
I don't know what the situation with LL is,  though.
Apparently with Dr. Guichet, _you_ have to convince him to do LL on you. Can you ask him such questions then? What if he says, "if you don't trust your doctor, you shouldn't be doing this".

[Metanoia]

I was told the new 20 click 11mm betzbone nail is supposed to be almost as strong as the old 15 click 13mm betzbone. Has anyone heard anything about the new 11mm betzbone nail bending or breaking?

Hi Bob,

 I know a bunch of people where it bent and 1 guy where it broke. The new 11mm nail seems be prone to bend quickly, after clicking a few cm. Anyway, the comparison is the typical kind of Bull  Betz is telling his patients. You can be sure that no Betzbone is as strong as the Albizzia. Most successful diaries With Betz are from the time he still had the Albizzia. Most new diaries end abruptly. I don't believe e.g. that Stillyoung wrote the last post in his diary. Letsgettaller also went quiet. Even Sysopeosis bent his Betzbone nails. All nails developed by Betz are non-weightbearing. He simply advertises them as weightbearing because the German law makes it easy for him to get away with.

[Adriano]

Hi Bob,

 I know a bunch of people where it bent and 1 guy where it broke. The new 11mm nail seems be prone to bend quickly, after clicking a few cm. Anyway, the comparison is the typical kind of Bull  Betz is telling his patients. You can be sure that no Betzbone is as strong as the Albizzia. Most successful diaries With Betz are from the time he still had the Albizzia. Most new diaries end abruptly. I don't believe e.g. that Stillyoung wrote the last post in his diary. Letsgettaller also went quiet. Even Sysopeosis bent his Betzbone nails. All nails developed by Betz are non-weightbearing. He simply advertises them as weightbearing because the German law makes it easy for him to get away with.

I like smart posts like this. very helpful to most of us out there who wonder what is really going.

still young used to post every day and all of a sudden he disappears!
That got me worried but bow that you have pointed out other bets patient who appeared to have suffered he same fate The PICTURE is now much clearer.

only a few bad posts about the betz nail are posted to ensure the majority of the posts paint a very good picture about the nail.
 This is so sad because when those nails break you have to spend another fotune for those titanium rods. how sad!
But guess what, those replacement nails  mean betz can perform another sugery at ur expense = betz making extra cash!!!

There are so many crooks out there!!!!   

[alps]

Mime, I hope you didn't miss my post.
May I ask you what your source of information about SysOp's real name and arm-lengthening odyssey is?

[Metanoia]

Mime, I hope you didn't miss my post.
May I ask you what your source of information about SysOp's real name and arm-lengthening odyssey is?

Hi,

Sorry but i cannot disclose my source in an open forum.