Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[handy]

Sorry handy, but what you are writing is absolute bull  and I kindly ask you to stop spreading this nonsense and confusing people.

this conspiracy thing -this time directed towards all the "bad" vets- really drives me crazy...

And one last time: nails can bend during lengthening, but not the bone!

This is something that always concerns me about Dr. Betz, and that is how little information his patients actually know about limb lengthening. During internal femur lengthening the bone can ABSOLUTELY bend. This can be caused by weight bearing too early and often which is very common among patients of Dr. Betz, or by the muscles surrounding the femur bone becoming too tight.

This is something Dr. Paley told me months ago when I met with him. The muscles around the femur bone are incredibly strong and can bend the bone during lengthening. If the muscles become too tight or if weight bearing is done too early and often they will force a deformity of the femur bone.

This is just the truth OBG. Just like like how Sysop/Apo uses people as guinea pigs with Dr. Sarin and Dr. Sringari and has Crazy+6 promote these butchers. Tall is nothing but a salesman for Dr. Mahboubian. Those are the three veterans who posted in your diary after you posted your x-rays and that's who i'm talking about when I say corrupt veterans.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

This is something Dr. Paley told me months ago when I met with him. The muscles around the femur bone are incredibly strong and can bend the bone during lengthening. If the muscles become too tight or if weight bearing is done too early and often they will force a deformity of the femur bone.

The bend would happen at the osteotomy site not 8 inches below it.

[Metanoia]

Hi Oldie,

you can easily check the bending by holding a ruler to the x-ray of the nail.
As already mentioned the bending is not big, so you won't need the titanium
rip-off. You are quite lucky to have such a quick regeneration and didn't lengthen
too much. Also you were relatively lightweight and had the 13mm nail fitting naturally.
These factors in your favor, you still had the broken screw complication which fortunately
Didn't have a big impact either.  Wishing you all the best.

edited on user request

[somecm]

Xrays look completly normal for me!

[Adriano]

I'm not defending anyone here BUT Betz patients are also the ones who lengthen the most in the diaries I have read " on average"

My guess is that those betz patients who lengthen below 6cm have significantly lower complication rates (mostly mechanical failures).

The reason for this "if it is the case" is obvious right.

Its unfair to compare betz with doctors who don't let their patients lengthen significant amounts.

The same goes for those Drs in asia who apparently have a limit on what they will allow you to lengthen.

We all know that risks increase after 5-6cm.  we also know that LLing beyond 8cm increases ur risks exponentially.

So lets compare apples with apples. a good example is OBG. he lengthened below 6cm and he has come out alright. if he had been in a wheel chair and been extra cautious he would not even have had bent screws.

I agree that betz can be too optimistic and maybe be too much of  a sales men by allowing patients to weight bear so early like he did with OBG.

other than this I think Betz is a great doctor for those of us who need to lengthen significant amounts. how hard is it to b extra cautious and avoid the expensive replacement titanium nails.

the thing that I don't understand is why the replacement nails r so expensive!!!...  that's the bit that makes it seem like they do it to suck what ever is left of ur money  h ah ah ah ahaaah aaa

why cant he use the same rod that is used in LON ( atleast for patients who are not heavy)

[Metanoia]

Hi Adriano,

The titanium rods cost around 200 US$ per piece. The rest is profit minus cost for the hospital which cannot be too expensive since rod removal surgery is much cheaper. In defending Betz you still haven't understood the main problems with him:
-His nails are always bending and breaking
-He is lying to his patients about it
-He has a commercial interest in doing more surgeries with his patients
-He is sloppy and not well organized
-He is tinkering with his patients, always willing to experiment with his patients
-He never refuses a patient, never looking at bone density or blood values or bone structure before surgery
-He has an extremely high % of complications due to all of this.
-He after surgery treatment sucks big time( medication, physiotherapy, recommends lots of walking)
-He has no preparation whatsoever. His consultation is just about selling. No serious examination.
If you don't believe me go ask some people in Neunkirchen Hospital. They see all his cases. Betz has an extremely bad reputation there.

[LLL]

Mime, it'd really put your claims in perspective and give them more validity if you could tell us what your relation to Betz and LL in general is and where you have gotten this information and/or impression. Are you a former patient? Are you a friend or relative of a former patient? Are you a health care professional who's worked with or around Betz or his patients? While I don't exactly doubt your claims because honestly I don't know what to believe anymore, how can we know what you're saying is correct? And if it is, shouldn't it all be reported to some kind of German medical oversight authority who could take action and straighten things out? I'm sure Betz has some kind of doctor's license that he doesn't want to lose.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Dr. Betz is what he his.  Do you want LL?  He'll do it.  After getting rejected in Serbia for BS reasons and then getting some no questions asked LL in Beijing, I love that about a doctor.  It's the patient's choice whether to do LL and how much to lengthen.  If you've got money and want 1st world medical treatment, but "aren't a good candidate" according to the more fussy doctors, Betz is there to provide LL for you.  Getting turned down for LL was one of the worst experiences of my life.

The pros and cons have been stated in this thread, so people can go in with their eyes open and make their own decision about him.

[LLL]

Dr. Betz is what he his.  Do you want LL?  He'll do it.  After getting rejected in Serbia for BS reasons and then getting some no questions asked LL in Beijing, I love that about a doctor.  It's the patient's choice whether to do LL and how much to lengthen.  If you've got money and want 1st world medical treatment, but "aren't a good candidate" according to the more fussy doctors, Betz is there to provide LL for you.  Getting turned down for LL was one of the worst experiences of my life.

The pros and cons have been stated in this thread, so people can go in with their eyes open and make their own decision about him.

Of course it's the patient's choice, but the doctor should show caution and responsibility and inform the patient of the risks. Doesn't sound like Betz does that?

It's a shame that he gives the impression of being of the same caliber as other western surgeons like Paley, Guichet, etc. If what Mime says in that list he posted, Betz must be way overpriced. Also, Germans are known for correctness and reliability in engineering. Myself, I thought that would make Betz a good choice, because a sloppy surgeon couldn't possibly operate in a rich country like Germany. Obviously, first impressions and stereotypes aren't always accurate.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

But is he really as bad as some say he is?  Many people on this forum will believe any bad thing written about him and his patients, even making up reasons why he's a bad doctor.

[LLL]

But is he really as bad as some say he is?  Many people on this forum will believe any bad thing written about him and his patients, even making up reasons why he's a bad doctor.

Exactly, and who knows. That's why I am asking for more evidence for these claims or at least some hints at how someone would know such things.

[Metanoia]

Hi guys,

long time no update to this thread. I needed to take a break from this very bitter subject. I won't yet disclose my exact relationship with Dr. Betz, but it is one of the 3 possibilities mentioned by medium drink above.
I will also disclose the story of a patient of Dr. Betz which gives an example why examinations and test before LL are indispensible.
The patient was refused by Dr. Guichet because her bone density was not good enough. So she went to Dr. Betz and started lengthening. After a few weeks she had a fracture in 1 leg. She needed another surgery and stop lengthening the leg. Dr. Betz convinced her to continue lengthen the other leg and after healing her fracture restart lengthening the other leg. She lengthened 6.5cm on the good leg and waited to heal the other leg. After the leg had healed, she got another surgery and lengthened the leg. She stayed over 1 year in Germany for this whole process. After lengthening she had another surgery to get titanium nails. She went home for consolidation.
Over 1 year later she returned to get the titanium nails removed. After removal while she was taking a first walk outside the Park Hotel - crack! Her leg broke again. She got another surgery and got another titanium nail inserted. She never removed this nail and will probably keep it for the rest of her life.

I don't know exactly how much she paid for the 6 surgeries plus the long time in Germany, but anybody can guess it was a fortune.

[KiloKAHN]

Holy crap, that sounds terrible. Do you know if her bone density was an issue just for using an internal device like the G-nail or would that have been a problem too if she wore external fixators?

[Metanoia]

That's a good question. I don't know but certainly there are many reasons why internals might not be suitable for a patient. The external fixator is more universal. Internals are more comfortable but ultimately have more risks. Another factor is the osteotomy which has a lot of influence on the whole healing process. Certainly Dr. Betz doesn't put much effort here either. He just uses a saw.
He is always cutting corners.

[mediocre]

Wow, just some heavy accusation.
I thought Dr Betz was a top doctor, and since stumbling upon this forum, I've been reading otherwise.

He is always cutting corners.

[Metanoia]

Hi Mediocre,

Dr. Betz is most certainly among the worst doctors for limb lengthening and i can only warn people who consider going to him. It is actually quite funny how many people give him credit because he is German. Germany is famous for crappy service. Take on top of that the weird legal system which gives all protection to doctors and none to patients and you'll quickly discover that Germany is a bad place to undergo medical treatment in general.

[OverrideYouGenetics]

Hi Mediocre,

Dr. Betz is most certainly among the worst doctors for limb lengthening and i can only warn people who consider going to him. It is actually quite funny how many people give him credit because he is German. Germany is famous for crappy service. Take on top of that the weird legal system which gives all protection to doctors and none to patients and you'll quickly discover that Germany is a bad place to undergo medical treatment in general.

dude, can you stop spreading   without backing it up.
Germans are known for pefection. They certainly do not provide 'crappy services'.
I think you need a little bit of blitzkrieg up your arse

[LLL]

I agree with kusop. What you're saying wouldn't surprise me at all, but you can't just say things like that and expect us to believe it after all the biased  misinformation that's been flying around the last year. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Why can't you even give us just a little?

[ChrisIsaak]

There's nothing extraordinary about claiming Dr.Betz is a shady doctor. Up to last year, he always seemed like one of the best options to go for LL. Then a lot of patient diaries abruptly stopped, some patients had problems like broken or bent screws (which is why this thread was opened). Some patients did exactly what the doctor told them to do, followed his word exactly, yet still faced such complications.

I am very positively prejudiced against Germans too (I believe in "German perfection" as well, especially in technology) but Dr.Betz simply doesn't seem like a good option anymore. At least not to me.

[OverrideYouGenetics]

Hey stupid,

you don't seem to have much first hand experience with Germans. Have you ever lived in Germany? I won't stop anything just because you want me to. Go to Betz and experience yourself 'German perfection'.

You are ruining this forum when you write serious accusations like that and don't back it up with evidence. I don't plan to do Betz. I am planning on Guichet, Paley or Donghoon.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if german law protects the doctor, all we are interested in the surgeons skills.

Apotheosis real name cannot be confirmed as real or fake. You gave common name which ten thousands of people have. It is hard to find him on fb,linkedin or any other social media.

[Metanoia]

There's nothing extraordinary about claiming Dr.Betz is a shady doctor. Up to last year, he always seemed like one of the best options to go for LL. Then a lot of patient diaries abruptly stopped, some patients had problems like broken or bent screws (which is why this thread was opened). Some patients did exactly what the doctor told them to do, followed his word exactly, yet still faced such complications.

I am very positively prejudiced against Germans too (I believe in "German perfection" as well, especially in technology) but Dr.Betz simply doesn't seem like a good option anymore. At least not to me.

Hello Chris,

Don't get me wrong here. Germans do have their good traits as well as bad traits. However, the Germans created themselves the word "Servicewüste" which means service-desert to characterize their own everyday experiences in Germany. You don't have to agree with that, however it is something widely known among people who live in Germany.
I mentioned this only in order to make people aware that they are unprotected when they go to Germany to undergo LL. This is important information and should be taken into consideration for people who want to undergo LL . For example doctors in the US have to play it safe because their risk to lose a lawsuit in case something goes wrong is not negligible. The legal framework for the whole Limb Lengthening process does have huge implications.
That's the main reason why Betz patients are allowed to walk with or without crutches during lengthening while e.g. patients of Dr. Paley are not.

Best wishes

[mediocre]

I think it's very important thing to note seriously how each nation protects patients from any negligence from doctors. For this reason alone, I won't be considering India. Something can happen from an operation to the lengthening phase. This happens even to the best of doctors. (People die from as simple as tonsillectomy). I believe that if a nation's law on negligence is not strict, doctors however good they are, won't make extra effort to up the standard.

I didn't know Germany's law is wanting in patient protection. But Mime, do you think Germany's law is subservient to a more compressive EU law, which I would assume, more patient-centric?

If only money is not a factor, most of our roads will lead to West Palm Beach with all of us sipping piñacolada at Paley Beach while lengthening our Precise.

[Metanoia]

Hi Mediocre,

I am not aware of any EU law which protects patients. The doctor's lobby is very strong in Germany and the German government could block any new law. I know regulations in other EU countries are more patient friendly like France. In Germany the doctor is not responsible for the result of a treatment. He is only obliged to give the treatment according to medical standard. Even if he makes a mistake he is not liable as long as the patient cannot prove the causality of his damage is due to the doctor's negligence. I.e. the patient must prove 2 things. In practice this means the patient has a 99% chance to lose a lawsuit against a doctor, no matter what happened to him.
Who would go to Germany for medical treatment if he knew about this?

[LLto180]

Hi Guys,

I am doing LL with Dr. Betz right now. As a patient of him I can just say its ridiculous what people post here. I am fed up with those people. They gave me such a hard time before surgery and I even believed all this not backed up nonsense. After the consultation I knew I want to go with Betz. But then again I had too much time to read on the forum and got concerned again because of all this nonsense people post here. So I decided to go Germany again and visit some more patients. All in all I met a lot of Betz patients and they were all doing fine. So I knew I will stop reading on the forum. Thats what the other patients recommended to me and it just makes sense. People come here and post whatever they want, give no back up and everyone believes it.
So I did the surgery a few weeks ago and I am absolutely happy with it. I justed reached 5cm and feel huge

Professor Betz is an amazing surgeon. I have many respect for Dr. Betz. He cares so much for his patients, every former patient would confirm that. He woke me up after surgery, dressed me, walked around with me, helped me going to the toilet and really took his time. He visited me every day in the hospital and made sure everything is fine.

You cant imagine how many patients I saw who were doing so well and never posted. They come, lenghten and then disappear. Dr. Betz is doing up to three LL surgerys a week. Its true there were some complications with the old 11mm. But that was still a tiny minority and Betz invented a new generation of the Betzbone. The 11mm is now nearly as strong as the 13mm. He didnt have any problems with that nail yet. I only met one patient with a bent 11mm nail (pretty sure it was one of the old generation) and he lenghtened 11cm and said himself that he just moved way too much without crutches while lenghtening.
My physio therapist Peter Woll said that most of the people who had a bent nail are just not completely honest. They try to hide the fact that they maybe slipped or did anything else they shouldnt have done.

A fact which even surprised myself: I am staying at Haus Liborius with Elke and she said to me that of over 100 patients she just had like 5 major complications (fractur, bent or broken nail).

My initially plan was actually not to post anything but the fact that all this false information about Betz nearly drove me crazy before surgery, because I was worried a lot, made me think twice. I want to help those people who are still deciding where to go.
Betz is not cheap, I am still very young and had to save up really hard. But I knew I want to do it right and its like everywhere: You get what you pay for.
So if you seriously think about LL stop jealous people (who probably cant afford the most skilled LL doctor inthe world) making you crazy. Go for a consultation with Professor Betz, meet his team, visit his patients and come and see for yourself.

cheers

[emanuel]

I don't have much sympathy for Dr. Betz (e.g. due to his 25k titanium nail replacement rip-off), but judging from the diaries he produces great results and quick recoveries. So I believe you are in good Hands 

But your following statement is actually not in Betz' favour:

A fact which even surprised myself: I am staying at Haus Liborius with Elke and she said to me that of over 100 patients she just had like 5 major complications (fractur, bent or broken nail).

In the medical context, a 1/20 chance of major complications is actually very high. If you know you have a 5% chance of fractur, bent or broken nail, would you go with that Dr?

[mediocre]

Hi LLto180, I hope you post a diary here chronicling your LL journey.
So far, those who have done LL with Dr Betz recommended him.

[Smallguy]

How did you manage 5cm in a few weeks ?  I'm amazed.   

Yes, I would like to know how anyone could get 5cm in just a "few weeks." If so, that would be a viable option for me next year and I can keep my job and I could take out a mortgage and pay him as much as he wants.

And I define "few weeks" to be 2-3 weeks at most. If it means 2 months, for the same price, I rather go with Guichet, Paley or Franz (using precise 2) and not have to put up with paying 25k euro on top of the overly charged fee for the titanium nail.

[LLto180]

How did you manage 5cm in a few weeks ?  I'm amazed.   

As you probably realized english is not my native language and for me a few is something between 3-7. My surgery was exactly 7 weeks from now. I grow 1 mm a day.
So I just got up and will click now and then I have my 5cm

I don't have much sympathy for Dr. Betz (e.g. due to his 25k titanium nail replacement rip-off), but judging from the diaries he produces great results and quick recoveries. So I believe you are in good Hands 

But your following statement is actually not in Betz' favour:


In the medical context, a 1/20 chance of major complications is actually very high. If you know you have a 5% chance of fractur, bent or broken nail, would you go with that Dr?

I talked to Elke again. I wasnt shure yesterday evening how many patients she already had, neither is she. But she said its close to 200. She isnt shure about it (dont forget she is doing it for 7 years now) but those 5 people had some bent screws or bent nails... a bent screw is easy and cheap fixable and a bent nail is fixable as well but costs you quite a bit of money. The really bad thing is when you have a fractur and she said she saw that only once... then you probably have to stop lenghtening, thats worst case. But if you have a fractur then you definately did something stupid.

About the titanium nails: As far as I know it costs you 16000 EUR (22000 USD). I am not sure what some guys think of that surgery but you you cant sit on a couch and Dr. Betz is putting titanium nails in your legs. He operates in a high modern surgery room. They have probably the most expensive devices you can get for money. Betz have to pay rent for the surgery room and thats expensive. He has to pay an anesthetist which is monitoring you during the whole procedur and like 5 other assistents who help him during the procedur. He has to pay the hospital to take care of you after surgery. There are a lot of hidden costs.
And if you do everything right you anyway dont have to go for titanium nails.

Whoever you choose you cant be faster than 1mm a day. But with Dr. Betz you can go to work (office job) once you leave the hospital. To tell you the truth I could have gone to work 3 days after surgery. No problem at all. Its individual of course but I think if someone really want to work he can do it. A lot of Betz patients work.

[jerry]

LL Forumorlife, will you be writing a diary about your LL experience?

[Metanoia]

As you probably realized english is not my native language and for me a few is something between 3-7. My surgery was exactly 7 weeks from now. I grow 1 mm a day.
So I just got up and will click now and then I have my 5cm

I talked to Elke again. I wasnt shure yesterday evening how many patients she already had, neither is she. But she said its close to 200. She isnt shure about it (dont forget she is doing it for 7 years now) but those 5 people had some bent screws or bent nails... a bent screw is easy and cheap fixable and a bent nail is fixable as well but costs you quite a bit of money. The really bad thing is when you have a fractur and she said she saw that only once... then you probably have to stop lenghtening, thats worst case. But if you have a fractur then you definately did something stupid.

About the titanium nails: As far as I know it costs you 16000 EUR (22000 USD). I am not sure what some guys think of that surgery but you you cant sit on a couch and Dr. Betz is putting titanium nails in your legs. He operates in a high modern surgery room. They have probably the most expensive devices you can get for money. Betz have to pay rent for the surgery room and thats expensive. He has to pay an anesthetist which is monitoring you during the whole procedur and like 5 other assistents who help him during the procedur. He has to pay the hospital to take care of you after surgery. There are a lot of hidden costs.
And if you do everything right you anyway dont have to go for titanium nails.

Whoever you choose you cant be faster than 1mm a day. But with Dr. Betz you can go to work (office job) once you leave the hospital. To tell you the truth I could have gone to work 3 days after surgery. No problem at all. Its individual of course but I think if someone really want to work he can do it. A lot of Betz patients work.

You shouldn't ask Elke, ask the other doctors in Neunkirchen and Orscholz. It is obvious that people who have a financial interest in Betz try to downplay the complications. Blaming the patients is also a good method. You have just been lucky until now but that doesn't mean that the bad things didn't happen.

[mediocre]

Hey Mime,

How many of the Betz patients do you know with issues with their nails/screws?

Thanks.