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Author Topic: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley  (Read 106015 times)

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BilateralDamage

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #155 on: June 28, 2014, 10:44:48 PM »

Are the buffets complimentary? Also how much does it cost to stay there a night? Thank you!

At the Homewood Suites, breakfast and dinner is complimentary.  Breakfast everyday of the week, dinner from Monday - Thursday.  With Paley, it costs $63 a night before taxes.


--


I wanted to add this: for going up and down the stairs, if you feel nervous with using the crutches (which I still do sometimes), a good way of getting up and down is to just sit down on the steps and lift yourself up each step.  If you're going upstairs, lower yourself down as regularly with your walker, fold up your walker, and then lift your butt up each step.  If you're by yourself, pull the walker with you after you move up each step.  If you're going down stairs, you can do the same, but to lower yourself down at the top, it requires at least 2 different banisters or leverages to hold onto when going down.  If you have a banister, this makes it much easier to lower yourself and raise yourself up.
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Grow

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #156 on: June 29, 2014, 12:32:40 AM »

Hi BD!
Great to hear that you are doing so well and at home! Being with family is so comforting.That's something I would like to do as well. I have kids and would not be able to get them out of school for the entire lengthening duration. Dr. Paley told me that PT is one of the most important aspects of this process. How are you managing this at home? Is you therapist familiar with LL and did you have to tell the therapist about your leg lengthening procedure? Keep us updated...Good luck!
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programdude

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #157 on: July 03, 2014, 11:33:08 PM »

So are you not in FL at all anymore? If you are let me know, I'd be interesting in meeting since I'll probably be crazy after a couple weeks of isolation.
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Dr. Paley Patient- Surgery completed successfully on July 22nd
My Diary for those who want a real play by play to know what to expect:http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=733.0

Starting height: 5 8
End Height-:5 11 +

BilateralDamage

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #158 on: July 10, 2014, 06:31:38 AM »

Hi BD!
Great to hear that you are doing so well and at home! Being with family is so comforting.That's something I would like to do as well. I have kids and would not be able to get them out of school for the entire lengthening duration. Dr. Paley told me that PT is one of the most important aspects of this process. How are you managing this at home? Is you therapist familiar with LL and did you have to tell the therapist about your leg lengthening procedure? Keep us updated...Good luck!

Just so I can understand, is your child doing this surgery for a deformity, and you're doing it for cosmetic?  If so, I really suggest against both of you getting the surgery at the same time, since it will be almost impossible for you to care for them.

PT is 100% the most important aspect to LL.  In the beginning, I didn't feel too much tightness, but now at 4 cm I feel the tightness more than ever.  My legs are becoming more difficult to get full extension, I feel my quad cramping while standing, light nerve pain in my right tibia, and I have a tight hip (fascia lata) that makes it difficult to close my legs when standing and is also causing my knees to bend slightly inwards.  I'll elaborate on all these problems and what's happened with PT in my update :)

So are you not in FL at all anymore? If you are let me know, I'd be interesting in meeting since I'll probably be crazy after a couple weeks of isolation.

Don't worry, you'll have lengthener friends, but this is important- try to leave your room as much as you can!  Even when you're on a laptop, just take it out into the dining area where it's sunny and across from the pool.  There will be people around and it will just make you feel better.  My dark lonely room was probably the source of my depressed feelings while in Florida...


--


Here's my x-ray from this Monday:



3.7 cm in the image.  Dr. Paley saw it, checked my flexibility, and gave me the the thumbs up.  ;D  Looks like lengthening at home hasn't given me any complications (but I won't get ahead of myself yet, I'm only at 4 cm now.. halfway there!)

I'm lengthening at home which means I need to fly back to Florida at least every 2 weeks to see Dr. Paley for our follow-up and have x-rays taken.  I did this roundtrip to Florida in one day.  :o

This time, flying was much more uncomfortable for me.  My flight each way was only 2 hours long and 30 minutes long, but my first flight was delayed on the tarmac for 2 hours, so I ended up spending the first flight sitting down for almost 5 hours.  During the flight, I started getting an annoying nerve pain in my right tibia, which doesn't hurt so much.  It feels more like a muscle soreness/pinching sensation that you need to stretch out.  Mid-flight, I took out my blanket that I use to stretch and did my tibia nerve stretches.  It relieved some pain, but I started experiencing a real worse pain, which is my hips.

From day 1 since surgery, I've had swollen hips which are very sensitive.  I can't sleep on my side because my hips experience too much pain from this.  I was told (by a PA) it would only last a week but 42 days later, I still have very bad hip pain when sitting down. At my follow-up, I talked to Paley about it and he pointed at my x-rays and explained, "you're very skinny.  Those screws are sticking out and pushing into your muscle, which is causing the swelling and pain.  A lot of people complain about this problem, but it will eventually go away."  The explanation sufficed for me, but it leads to another problem I'm having.

I have trouble closing my legs while standing and it almost feels like my hips tighten up and prevent me from closing them.  I also noticed my left foot was slightly turning inwards.  I mentioned this to Dr. Paley and he immediately said, "tight fascia lata.  It's the tendon located right in your hip that will cause this when it gets tight.  The solution for this is to do the OBER stretch."  I groaned.  The Ober stretch is the bane of my existence.  The reason why?  The Ober stretch requires you to lie on your side.  This induces HUGE amounts of pain because of the screws popping into my muscle and having the Physical therapist force more pressure down on this area while stretching me.  I almost can't do this stretch because of how painful it is, and it's probably why this area has been tightening up for me.  I explained why I'm having trouble doing it and Paley suggested soft pads, which I've tried, but haven't done much for me.  So mostly I have to suck it up, take some more pain meds before PT, and do the Ober stretches at least 3x everyday.

Paley was satisfied with my flexibility when he saw me, but I'm not happy with it, and there's a reason why- my PT has been lacking severely. 

When I moved back home from Florida, I already had plans to do PT with a place that obviously didn't have any experience with LL, but was good with fractures and other injuries.  It was also very cheap for 1 hour and 15-30 minutes, only $40 out of pocket.  What I didn't realize was that the PTs were too incompetent to use the videos my PTs from Paley's clinic provided me, and wanted to do the stretches the way they were familiar with.  They also didn't do 1-on-1 PT (which you NEED) and instead would give me the stretches to do by myself, and leave me while I did them.  Why the hell would I go to a place and pay them for   I can do at home!?  I only went to this place twice and never returned.

So after ditching this place, I continued to do PT on my own, but only self-stretches, and sometimes a family member would help me.  Stretching yourself, while I was taught on all the stretches to do, is difficult and not nearly as productive as having someone else stretch you.  The reason?  You don't want to inflict pain on yourself, so you go easy while stretching.  It's also difficult in some positions to push harder when you're in so much pain.  I spent the last week looking for someone, and finally found a PT for 1-on-1.  They understand that they need to do everything I say, and what my PTs in Florida say.  The biggest stretches we're focusing on are Ober, hamstring, quad, and the stretch for the sciatic nerve running down my tibia (which is pretty easy to do by myself as well).

Besides all the complaining I've done in this post, I have to say I'm happier than I've ever been during my lengthening. :) Being at home with my family has made LL so much better.  Not a day goes by where I'm not actively moving about and doing something, and talking to someone and keeping busy.  The days have passed by much quicker this way.  I'm a musician, and have already joined a new band to practice and gig with.  I'm swimming in my pool almost every day, playing with my pets in our yard, and I've already seen a few friends (I just told them I had a sporting accident and broke my leg, no one questioned it).  Also none of them noticed my height because I'm slightly hunched on crutches and also they're much taller than me, so they wouldn't even notice if I grew a few inches.

I'm on crutches now and they are the fastest and best way of getting about for me.  It's much quicker than using a walker.  But be careful- if you're on a slippery surface your crutch WILL slip.  Almost fell down after using my crutches on a wet floor.

Halfway there, I can almost see the finish line!  I'm pleased with my 4 cm so far.. and have already felt average while standing in a lot of places.  But I'm a bit greedy, and I want my 8 cm.  ;D  I'll probably even try my 3 inch lifts after consolidation just to experience what it's like at 6'..  ;)
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programdude

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #159 on: July 10, 2014, 06:53:53 AM »

You go for it man! Glad you are feeling better about everything. Pity about the PT though, that is certainly one perk of staying in FL.
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Dr. Paley Patient- Surgery completed successfully on July 22nd
My Diary for those who want a real play by play to know what to expect:http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=733.0

Starting height: 5 8
End Height-:5 11 +

KiloKAHN

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #160 on: July 10, 2014, 08:58:18 AM »

Man I know what you mean about physio, some stretches just suck. And I have noticed that even though I do physio on my own I don't seem to get as much pain as when the physiotherapists at the hospital were there instructing me and making sure I did the movements properly. Maybe it is a subconscious way of holding myself back. That's cool you're home and with friends and all. I don't think I could do those constant flights though. Isn't going through security at the airports discouraging enough? lol From the pain you describe I kind of wonder how much less painful internal methods really are compared to external. Then again, maybe external femurs would be a million times worse.

By the way, how long can you walk with crutches typically before you start to feel tired? I get sapped of energy every time I make a trip to the front desk and back to my room in the hotel. Takes forever on the walker.
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Initial height: 164 cm / ~5'5" (Surgery on 6/25/2014)
Current height: 170 cm / 5'7" (Frames removed 6/29/2015)
External Tibia lengthening performed by Dr Mangal Parihar in Mumbai, India.
My Cosmetic Leg Lengthening Experience

Grow

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #161 on: July 14, 2014, 05:56:31 PM »

Just so I can understand, is your child doing this surgery for a deformity, and you're doing it for cosmetic?  If so, I really suggest against both of you getting the surgery at the same time, since it will be almost impossible for you to care for them.

Yes BD, my daughter has been Paley's patient for a while. (I can't believe I just learned about cosmetic lengthening!!!)She has a couple more surgeries and a few more years to go before she is done. I am keen to get this done for me ASAP because I want to enjoy my height and complete this surgery before I get any older. (I will be 30 this year) The main reason I want to complete my lengthening at home is because I can get a lot of help, my family would all be able to pitch in and help out.

Thanks for your updates, BD. I always learn so much from them.
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Plzen

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #162 on: August 11, 2014, 12:53:32 AM »

BD,
Any updates. How is your pain? How is walking with crutches? Are you able to sleep ok at night?
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GPS

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #163 on: September 22, 2014, 04:51:14 AM »

So you get everyone to tune in for your diary after six months of advertising, just to leave everyone hanging once you do the surgery? So much for becoming a second Leechlet
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goodlucktomylegs

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #164 on: November 23, 2014, 02:44:37 PM »

Hey BD any updates
How have you been?
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Nicki

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #165 on: January 04, 2015, 01:39:29 AM »

How much did it cost?
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sagsag

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #166 on: April 01, 2018, 10:07:48 AM »

HI All,
I'm new to this forum ,
My daughter  (15.5) had the precice 2 operation a week ago in her right femur  , due to length discrepancy .
one of he PT exercises given was , to bear a wight of 20KG on the operated leg .
once she does this PT , she complains about feeling  movements in the leg , did anyone experiences  anything  like it 
10x,

Sagi



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BilateralDamage

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #167 on: August 19, 2018, 02:36:43 AM »

Haven't posted on these forums in a long, long time...

If you have any questions for an LLer who is now over 4 years post-op (holy sh*t! It's been forever ago) feel free to ask away!
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CaptainAmerica

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #168 on: August 19, 2018, 03:31:40 AM »

Haven't posted on these forums in a long, long time...

If you have any questions for an LLer who is now over 4 years post-op (holy sh*t! It's been forever ago) feel free to ask away!

Hey man, I'm turning 21 soon and I've been planning and saving since I was 17. I hope you don't mind this wall of questions, but seeing as we're getting it done at a similar age (and not to many people do) I have a lot to ask.

- Can you go hiking? Go to festivals? Walk for a full day at theme parks? Do you feel leg pain?
- Do you feel like getting this done at a young age helped your career, your business and professional relationships?
- What is your parent's opinion of the surgery now 4 years later? More approving? Assuming you've become a happier, better version of yourself?
- Have you ever had anyone comment about your proportions, or ever felt weird about looking in the mirror or putting on certain clothes?
- Do you remember what it was like to be short? What does it feel like? A nightmare in comparison? Not that different? etc...
- What has been the biggest difference in your life since you had LL? Do you feel like it impacted your personality drastically, your social life, your romantic life?
- Given the result and recovery, was it worth the cost, or would you go for a cheaper alternative (being young and having that kind of money can really lead to some great long-term investments).
- Do you still think about lengthening more on your tibias?

You don't have to answer everything point by point, or even answer all of them at all. Just any information you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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JON SNOW

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #169 on: August 19, 2018, 04:07:41 AM »

Haven't posted on these forums in a long, long time...

If you have any questions for an LLer who is now over 4 years post-op (holy sh*t! It's been forever ago) feel free to ask away!


I wonder if it's true that veteran LLers reach the point where they forget they did CLL?

knowing what you know now, Will you do LL again?





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BilateralDamage

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #170 on: August 19, 2018, 08:58:38 AM »

Hey man, I'm turning 21 soon and I've been planning and saving since I was 17. I hope you don't mind this wall of questions, but seeing as we're getting it done at a similar age (and not to many people do) I have a lot to ask.

- Can you go hiking? Go to festivals? Walk for a full day at theme parks? Do you feel leg pain?
- Do you feel like getting this done at a young age helped your career, your business and professional relationships?
- What is your parent's opinion of the surgery now 4 years later? More approving? Assuming you've become a happier, better version of yourself?
- Have you ever had anyone comment about your proportions, or ever felt weird about looking in the mirror or putting on certain clothes?
- Do you remember what it was like to be short? What does it feel like? A nightmare in comparison? Not that different? etc...
- What has been the biggest difference in your life since you had LL? Do you feel like it impacted your personality drastically, your social life, your romantic life?
- Given the result and recovery, was it worth the cost, or would you go for a cheaper alternative (being young and having that kind of money can really lead to some great long-term investments).
- Do you still think about lengthening more on your tibias?

You don't have to answer everything point by point, or even answer all of them at all. Just any information you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Whoo, bunch of questions! I'll go through them one by one.

>- Can you go hiking? Go to festivals? Walk for a full day at theme parks? Do you feel leg pain?

This question made me chuckle, just because I would have had the same ones at your stage in life. :)
The answer is yes to doing all of those. I don't feel leg pain and the only time I do is minor when I have been running fast for a long distance (without previously running for a while.) Almost like a "getting used to it" sort of pain.

>- Do you feel like getting this done at a young age helped your career, your business and professional relationships?

This is a good question, and again one I have had the same before doing LL at your age. It's hard to say. I know as a fact it has helped in my romantic life, and overall my confidence, so you could say by that token it has helped me in my work life. Being more confident will assist you in all areas of your social, career, and personal life.

> What is your parent's opinion of the surgery now 4 years later? More approving? Assuming you've become a happier, better version of yourself?

We don't talk about it. We almost pretend as though it hasn't happened.  Which in a way, is pretty easy to feel because all of us have moved on from it. It's almost a non-factor because it doesn't play into our daily lives whatsoever.

To add to this though, this surgery and plastic surgery in general is incredibly out of the realm of ordinary for my family. Doing it might hang over my head a bit, but I don't pay much attention to it which in turn causes my family not to care about it either I believe.

>- Have you ever had anyone comment about your proportions, or ever felt weird about looking in the mirror or putting on certain clothes?

Never. No one has ever commented about my proportions. I do not feel weird looking in the mirror or putting on clothes HOWEVER; I do feel weird about tucking in shirts. My torso is way too short and my legs are way too long to be tucking in shirts. The only time I feel comfortable doing that is when I'm wearing a suit jacket along with it.

>- Do you remember what it was like to be short? What does it feel like? A nightmare in comparison? Not that different? etc...

Absolutely. Life sucked. I was uncomfortable in my skin and being unconfident hurt every area of my life. I'm still not entirely content in my skin, but I'm a lot happier than I used to be. Being short is not a nightmare in comparison but it is definitely worse.

>-What has been the biggest difference in your life since you had LL? Do you feel like it impacted your personality drastically, your social life, your romantic life?

This is a tough one to answer. For anyone reading this, I only went from around 5' 5" to 5' 8". That's not a tall height for anyone, but for me, it changed my world. I feel 'average' instead of feeling short for once. I felt like I no longer had to be "embarrassed" of my height.

My social life remained relatively unaffected but my romantic life has been a world apart. To put it bluntly, I pull a lot more girls than I would have 4 years ago. However, a year after surgery, I wasn't pulling any girls at all. It was only until a few years later when I was able to mesh a personality with my looks that would enable me to amplify my romantic life.

>- Given the result and recovery, was it worth the cost, or would you go for a cheaper alternative (being young and having that kind of money can really lead to some great long-term investments).

This is an interesting question. I still have money, and I still enjoy having money. But I have a much different perspective on money than I used to.

Back then, I saw money as something that you needed to invest/save at all costs. Now I view money as, well, why not spend it now? What I care about, what we readers on this forum care about, is being happy and content with ourselves now. And if it costs 100K to do it, and you have the money, then why not?

Would I go for a cheaper alternative? I can't say yes given my experience that 1) I am not dead and 2) still able to walk, but I wouldn't mind having an extra ~50K in my pocket.

>- Do you still think about lengthening more on your tibias?

This is probably why I've come back to the forum.

I do consider it on occasion (rarely, and I do not obsess over height like I used to. In some respects, I stopped caring altogether and enjoy being this height). But I would like to have an extra 1" or 2 inches MAX.  It feels like that would compliment my overall proportions well without being too crazy tall.

However, I'm 99% sure that I won't be doing the surgery. And the reason? Nothing to do with money/pain/lifestyle change.. actually, tibias are easier to lengthen than the femurs with precice. What I am worried about is a very cosmetic reason, and that is the SCARS. I have extremely noticeable keloid scars from the femur lengthening. And it's quite embarrassing and makes me uncomfortable to take even my shorts off around people. The release surgery left the largest and most noticeable scars next to my left and right knee which is very visible when I'm wearing shorts.
Unfortunately it's impossible to remove keloid scars so until it's possible to do so, I probably won't be lengthening my tibias...

Thanks for all those questions! It feels good to write my thoughts out which I haven't done in quite a while.

I wonder if it's true that veteran LLers reach the point where they forget they did CLL?

knowing what you know now, Will you do LL again?

It's not necessarily that we forget that we did CLL. It's more that we realize there isn't much to gain by reading these forums and posting on them anymore.

Everyone (myself included) highly active on these forums usually have not done LL yet or were in the process of getting it done. Before surgery, there is a lot of nervous excitement and of course anxiety about getting a surgery as drastic as this one. But once you get the surgery done, what is left for there to be said? You realize coming to these forums to vent about your experience is pretty much the extent of what you can gain from posting here. The best thing you can do for your mental health and happiness moving forward is to entirely forget about LL and focus on the other areas of life that you were neglecting or putting aside because of your unhappiness with your current stature.

To answer your last question, would I do LL again given what I know now? 110% yes.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 09:24:12 AM by BilateralDamage »
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catcat

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #171 on: August 19, 2018, 01:08:46 PM »

what is the 'release surgery' you mentioned in your post?
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Pilor

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #172 on: August 19, 2018, 01:12:49 PM »

When could you walk normally again, completly without any aids. (Normally = full mobility and nobody notice/suspect anything that you had surgery)
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CaptainAmerica

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #173 on: August 19, 2018, 05:34:34 PM »

Hi BD, I can't thank you enough for all your answers man. That was extremely re-assuring and calmed down a lot of my minor doubts about getting this done. Yeah dude, 5'5->5'8 is huge! That's literally 5th percentile to like the ~30s, that's essentially standing in a crowd of people and feeling shorter than literally almost everyone, to being taller than 1 / 3 guys, I can't imagine the psychological impact that has.

Also, it's good to hear you only feel like you need 1-2 inches maximum on tibias if you were go around again. The fact that you're only aiming for 1-2 speaks volumes about the huge difference that only 3 inches has already made in your life, and it's what my long-term plan probably is to. 3 inches on femurs, recover well after a few years, and if I still feel like I need it, maybe go back for an inch on my tibias.

Once again, thank you so much. It's really rare to get these kind of post-LL answers from people because as soon as they're done lengthening they usually stop updating entirely and you never find out if they truly fully recovered, if their mental hood was improved, etc.. etc.. So I really appreciate you taking the time to answer all of those questions.
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KiloKAHN

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #174 on: August 19, 2018, 09:56:45 PM »

Good to know you're doing well, dude.
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Initial height: 164 cm / ~5'5" (Surgery on 6/25/2014)
Current height: 170 cm / 5'7" (Frames removed 6/29/2015)
External Tibia lengthening performed by Dr Mangal Parihar in Mumbai, India.
My Cosmetic Leg Lengthening Experience

YellowSpike

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #175 on: August 21, 2018, 04:17:56 PM »


This is a tough one to answer. For anyone reading this, I only went from around 5' 5" to 5' 8". That's not a tall height for anyone, but for me, it changed my world. I feel 'average' instead of feeling short for once. I felt like I no longer had to be "embarrassed" of my height.


Totally agree. I went from 166 to 173/174 (I don't measure myself anymore, but I'm usually like 5'8.25" at night), and it's a massive difference. Every inch between 5'5" and 5'8" is very important. I honestly have no issues at my height now, especially since I (and it sounds like this applies to you as well) have other things like build, facial aesthetics, success, etc. going for me.

No way in hell I would put myself through this sh*t again even if someone paid for it.
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ghkid2019

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #176 on: June 17, 2020, 03:43:27 AM »

I did not expect to find the Paley patient who actually got fat embolism.. this diary needs to be pinned. And this diary is very detailed, should've gotten way more traction.

BilateralDamage is one of two Paley patients who got fat embolism from LL. Imagine he did this in India or something instead of the US. Definitely going to Paley now, no more trying to save money.

Sorry for bumping a 6 year old diary, but this is a short, but must read
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184dream

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #177 on: October 09, 2020, 06:01:23 AM »

15 percent knee pain wtf
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ghkid2019

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #178 on: October 09, 2020, 06:47:15 AM »

I need to bookmark this shìt lol. Forgot this diary. Really good one.
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brondo

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Re: Big D is Growing - PRECICE 2 Internal Femurs - Dr. Paley
« Reply #179 on: October 09, 2020, 07:40:22 AM »

Hi BilateralDamage,

Thanks for sharing. I want to ask how are you athletically. That has been something I am worried about with this procedure and I want to know what percentage of pre-CLL are you back to? Thanks.
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