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[rapidvault93]

I have extremely disproportionate clavicles to the rest of my body, the only surgeon that actually advertised clavicle lengthening surgery was Dr Leif Rogers, but as far as I'm aware he doesn't do it anymore.

I've contacted a fair number of LL doctors and have received 3 replies so far - the first said they couldn't help, the second said they would consider and wanted some pictures first, but it seems unlikely now and the 3rd said they would do it if I can get hold of a 3d CT scan to prove that I'm short in the clavicles.

Does anyone know of somebody who's had this procedure done in the past? or know of any surgeons who are willing to do it for cosmetic purposes?

Thanks

[crimsontide]

i have advice for you

don't go to india

[rapidvault93]

i have advice for you

don't go to india

haha why's that? I've only been in contact with american/european doctors so far, but was considering getting in contact with some of the chinese surgeons.

[crimsontide]

because there seems to be a high rate of complications with Indian surgeons

And I can tell you from experience, the clinics these drs work at are nothing like the facilities youre used to in America,Europe or Asia, and this includes Russia

[Uppland]

What have you learned about the procedure so far?

-Comlications?

-Recovery?

-Cost?

-Time?

-Procedure, discomfort and/or pain?

[maximize]

I sincerely doubt you are actually short in your clavicles. If you had short clavicles, I suspect your shoulders would be chronically "rolled in".

If what you mean is you have narrow shoulders (a narrow build), isolated lengthening of your clavicles will not likely solve this and it will more likely lead to shoulder problems from rolling your shoulders outwards.

[rapidvault93]

What have you learned about the procedure so far?

-Comlications?

-Recovery?

-Cost?

-Time?

-Procedure, discomfort and/or pain?

I've had a cost quoted of 37,000 euros from one doctor so far, I'm in contact with a few others and waiting to hear back/compare prices. The common method used for a procedure such as this doesn't use an external fixator, instead they use a distractor intraoperatively, put a bone graft and stabilize it with a plate (that will be removed after consolidation), but as for the time frame of recovery and complications associated I am still finding out.

I sincerely doubt you are actually short in your clavicles. If you had short clavicles, I suspect your shoulders would be chronically "rolled in".

If what you mean is you have narrow shoulders (a narrow build), isolated lengthening of your clavicles will not likely solve this and it will more likely lead to shoulder problems from rolling your shoulders outwards.

This is a reasonable point and something I was concerned about at first - whether or not lengthening the clavicles will directly translate into a straightforward increase in shoulder width from side to side - and this is still something I'm trying to find out.

I've been in contact with several LL doctors so far, explaining my situation, sending photos and explained that it's for the purpose of broadening my shoulders, and so far 5 have told me that it's possible and that they can do it (several of them American surgeons). I'm still in the process of gathering information, but how much of an effect this procedure has on increasing shoulder width is the main question I'm trying to get answered.

Furthermore, Dr Leif Rogers advertised this surgery as 'shoulder widening' which leads me to believe that clavicle lengthing does translate into a direct increase in shoulder width/appearance.
http://www.leifrogersmd.com/site/old%20site/male_shoulder_widening.html

If I have missed the point of your post let me know, I understand there will be potential for complications. Whether it will be more or less than those associated with regular LL I'm trying to find out. Please elaborate on the rolling out of the shoulders and why you think isolated lengthening of the clavicles will solve the problem.

I hope the tone of my post doesn't come across as argumentative, I just want a reasonable discussion free of personal feelings.

[Uppland]

If you go through with it, will you tell us of your experience?

It would be very valuable.

[maximize]

To be honest, Rapidvault, I'm not 100% certain what will happen if you do isolated clavicle lengthening.

The problem as I see it is your shoulder width is set by both the shape of your scapula and your clavicle. If you are just lengthening the clavicle, maybe your scapula will just follow along laterally without any problem. But there are a lot of muscles that attach to the scapula, and normal scapular motion is essential for proper shoulder use.

If the scapula remains in its current position, the clavicle lengthening will push your shoulder into external rotation (roll it out). If the clavicle lengthening adds pressure at the acromioclavicular or sternoclavicular joints you could get early arthritis at these joints (which can be very painful). Even if the scapula follows the clavicle and moves laterally as you are hoping to give you broader shoulders, it could change the way the scapula moves and you might get altered range of motion to your shoulders.

Maybe it will be successful. But I think intuitively externally rotated shoulders and abnormal shoulder range of motion is the most likely outcome. Leg lengthening is simpler in many ways because the knee is just a simple hinge joint. The shoulder is one of the most complicated joints in the body. Changing the bony relationships around it will probably lead to more complicated outcomes. But I really don't know.

With leg lengthening there is plenty of published literature over decades to show the positives and negatives. The only clavicle lengthening articles I can find are for correction of clavicular hypoplasia (growth deformity of the clavicle). That does not apply to a cosmetic case. So you are likely going into uncharted waters. If you are comfortable with that, by all means proceed. But be aware that there could be shoulder problems from it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=clavicle+lengthening

[rapidvault93]

To be honest, Rapidvault, I'm not 100% certain what will happen if you do isolated clavicle lengthening.

The problem as I see it is your shoulder width is set by both the shape of your scapula and your clavicle. If you are just lengthening the clavicle, maybe your scapula will just follow along laterally without any problem. But there are a lot of muscles that attach to the scapula, and normal scapular motion is essential for proper shoulder use.

If the scapula remains in its current position, the clavicle lengthening will push your shoulder into external rotation (roll it out). If the clavicle lengthening adds pressure at the acromioclavicular or sternoclavicular joints you could get early arthritis at these joints (which can be very painful). Even if the scapula follows the clavicle and moves laterally as you are hoping to give you broader shoulders, it could change the way the scapula moves and you might get altered range of motion to your shoulders.

Maybe it will be successful. But I think intuitively externally rotated shoulders and abnormal shoulder range of motion is the most likely outcome. Leg lengthening is simpler in many ways because the knee is just a simple hinge joint. The shoulder is one of the most complicated joints in the body. Changing the bony relationships around it will probably lead to more complicated outcomes. But I really don't know.

With leg lengthening there is plenty of published literature over decades to show the positives and negatives. The only clavicle lengthening articles I can find are for correction of clavicular hypoplasia (growth deformity of the clavicle). That does not apply to a cosmetic case. So you are likely going into uncharted waters. If you are comfortable with that, by all means proceed. But be aware that there could be shoulder problems from it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=clavicle+lengthening

Yeah I can definitely see a big possibility of complications. One Russian LL surgeon has recently said "Extend the clavicle can be, but you have wider shoulders will not. Such treatment is expensive, but the effect is questionable. There may be complications".

On the contrary, another LL surgeon has said "The adaptive system of the body is very flexible and has great resources.
If you make the correction gradually, without stress, it is possible to achieve the desired results". He said they can increase the width slowly and that a recovery training specialist will be needed to make sure that the muscle and ligaments adapt correctly with the change. Furthermore, around just over an inch can be added in length - which for shoulders is actually quite a lot and would be noticeably wider.

So from what I gather altogether, it is possible, and it will add a slight increase in shoulder length - but recovery time may be a while. The only way it would be worth it in my opinion is if the doctor is confident that measurable shoulder width will come as a result, the cost was less than 20,000 euros and if the recovery is relatively safe and doesn't take months of inactivity.

If you go through with it, will you tell us of your experience?

It would be very valuable.

Of course, it will probably be a while before I decide whether or not to go for it though. Still loads of research to do because there aren't any cases of it being done for cosmetic purposes in the past.

[hadrian]

Have you tried contacting Rogers? He might have insight as to why he no longer performs cosmetic CL.