Topic: painless limb lengthening Finland? (Read 16545 times)

Satans_nipples · « **on:** May 19, 2015, 09:48:55 PM »

Hey guys, just wondering have any of you seen this?

http://www.goodnewsfinland.com/archive/news/finnish-company-develops-painless-limb-lengthening-treatment/

Seems quite innovative to me. What are your thoughts? Although it seems a bit too good to be true.

microman · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2015, 10:03:39 PM »

sounds way too good to be true.

sadboy · « **Reply #2 on:** May 19, 2015, 10:04:51 PM »

It doesn't sound logical I guess? They are basically chopping your whole bone is half... How can that be painless?

microman · « **Reply #3 on:** May 19, 2015, 10:17:28 PM »

wow no its actually real!

http://synoste.fi/

check the video and such, surely this is a medical breakthrough.

the wording seems strange though, so you only spend 20 seconds a day lengthening and it's totally pain free.

apparently the bone is fully healed after 6 months, but then the article says, it takes almsot 2 years for the operation to complete.

have I stepped into a completely different world all of a sudden.

looks like it can do both tibia and femur by the pictures on the website.

he says in the video 'its totally pain free', and apparently there is no external device.

Overdozer · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2015, 10:20:17 PM »

Is that Apo on the right?

And it looks like they didn't develop any new revolutionary methods of limb lengthening. Just a new self-lengthening IM nail. A lengthening process itself can't painless anyways, unless you abuse strong painkillers.

microman · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2015, 11:02:19 PM »

okay here is a better artical.

http://www.aalto.fi/en/current/news/2015-05-05-003/

KiloKAHN · « **Reply #6 on:** May 19, 2015, 11:38:58 PM »

I wonder if this is the Finnish team that Dr Parihar spoke with...

microman · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2015, 12:32:09 AM »

A much better and older article is here

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090415074843.htm

"Four times per day, the patient places his foot on an automatic home care device that produces a magnetic field, at which time a daily stretching of about one millimetre is divided into smaller steps. Lengthening can be carried out painlessly at home, even while lounging on the sofa, and only takes a few minutes of the day", continues researcher Juha Haaja.

okay so you can do it at home, surprisingly, but wont you need a doctor if something bad happens, and can you still move around easily during that time.

more information

http://www.clinica.co.uk/marketsector/ivds/Finlands-medtech-innovation-flow-bubbles-quietly-but-surely-358068

yeah might be 2 years until its out.

Satans_nipples · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2015, 04:59:32 AM »

Hope it's not expensive as fk, although it probably will be.
I actually sent them an e-mail asking approximately when their services will be available, aNY ideas on pricing, and if they intend to perform LL for cosmetic reasons or not. I'm Also curious as to how this differs fROM existing internal methods such as precice, guichet, etc.

Alittletooshort · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2015, 05:11:40 AM »

I didn't really get what the difference between a normal IM nail and this product is.
Does anyone know what it's going to cost?

Satans_nipples · « **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2015, 05:16:01 AM »

I will keep you guys updated if they reply to my email

microman · « **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2015, 07:27:57 AM »

I do wonder if they will do it themselves or if they are going to sell it to LL doctors.

and can you do 2xLL surgeries at the same time with this nail, was it only not possible with thet current devices due to the extreme pain anyway?

given that there is no risk of infection and other complications, along with what is said in those articles, I can heavily infer that you do go home straight after the operation to lengthen, in that case i think you would only return for device removal, however that apparently would be in over 12 months.

as far as price goes you have to keep in mind you save money on renting a place for 8 months depending on housing situation, and also lack of complications means you wont have to pay extra for extra surgeries required.

I wonder of PT is needed, and what mobility you have during lengthening, and after consolidation is finished, but the device is not removed, the articles imply after consolodation you keep the device in longer.

this artical says

This innovation, in Synoste’s case, is a system for treating bone deformities that result in limb length-discrepancies and cosmetic procedures for persons of short stature.

which implies they will do it for cosmetic cases, they may have a height requirement though, as they said short stature only.

will it even leave scars?

Alittletooshort · « **Reply #12 on:** May 20, 2015, 08:58:44 AM »

Whats your budget? You should have at least 100 000-120 000$ if not more for two internal surgeries and all the treatments it involves.
2 surgeries at the same time is too much to handle for the body, the chances of a non union are too high. No decent Dr. will do that.
You can do the lengthening at home with many internal devices, I don't see anything revolutionary about this device.

microman · « **Reply #13 on:** May 20, 2015, 09:42:25 AM »

it be willing to pay more than standard LL if its pain free and i can do the whole thing in the comfort of my home with little risk, spending 8 months in russia just blows.

lets say I would pay £20,000 for this 'luxury' LL, if that means only 1 surgery then I'd be happy with that, i was just getting carried away imagining 2 surgeries and being the male average, its okay i don't need to be the male average to be happy.

as far as revolutionary i would say it is because

it's pain free
has no risk of complications
you can lengthen at home 'risk free' so your only out of the country for merely 1 week as opposed to 8 months.

Alittletooshort · « **Reply #14 on:** May 20, 2015, 10:10:56 AM »

You won't get very far with 20 000 pounds I guess, don't fortget that this is just and advertisment. How can it be painless if the pain comes from the strechted tissue, how should that be avoided.
I don't believe the claim that it's complication free without studies to proof it. Do we know if it's wheight bearing?
It just seems like an ordinary IM nail, you can do the lengthening at home with most devices so that's nothing special either.

microman · « **Reply #15 on:** May 20, 2015, 10:19:52 AM »

yes but isn't it heavily discouraged because if complications arise you need the doctor to be there. i was under the impression that this device is complication free and thus you could lengthen at home with a piece of mind.

I phoned them today, they said they would call back tomorrow as they are busy today, so I will reply with answers.

I think it would be pain free, because if it wasn't they wouldn't say it, especially in a video.

crimsontide · « **Reply #16 on:** May 20, 2015, 10:32:49 AM »

you guys will believe anything

microman, are you serious or trolling? It's pain free because they say it is??? No one ever falsely advertises?

Every limb lengthening method involves stretching bone and tissue. I wanna know how that's painless, unless you're on painkillers.

only way to not make it painful is to have the bone stretched and regenerated in a day or so, with the ability to lengthen tissue rapidly without complications.. that day is not here

microman · « **Reply #17 on:** May 20, 2015, 10:54:31 AM »

There was one article that explained why it was pain free, it may be one of the ones i linked, if it isn't i will try and find it.

but yes i was surprised he said 'totally pain free', surely there would at least be major discomfort.

i think this case may be that they sell the nail to guichet, betz etc, and maybe mitkovik can get it and then i think £20K would be enough.

Alittletooshort · « **Reply #18 on:** May 20, 2015, 11:14:36 AM »

They call it pain free because they refer to external lengthening methods which are indeed more painful. However, pain shouldn't be your main concern, it just seems like an ordinary nail to me. The price would make a crucial difference if it's even worth considering.
Just take the fitbone as an example, the nails cost 24 000€ together, than you should add the Dr's fees, physio, transportation and flights and the stay in the hospital.
The cheapest product on the market is the nail used by Dr. Jamal, he charges 31 500 for the lengthening and the physio therapy, so even for him you should have ar least around 35 000€.

microman · « **Reply #19 on:** May 20, 2015, 12:11:11 PM »

so will all internal nails cost that much and there is no chance of this costing around the same price as external fixators?

Alittletooshort · « **Reply #20 on:** May 20, 2015, 12:23:00 PM »

No way, the external devices are just metal rings and pins. There is no such thing as a mechanisms that works by itself. If you are willing to pay up to 20 000£ than there is not really a way for you to get an internal device.
You'll have to stick to an ex fix (or Lon Latn) which is more painful, takes longer, will more or less force you to tibial lengthening and will leave scars.
For something internal you should add at least around 10 000£ to your current budget.

microman · « **Reply #21 on:** May 20, 2015, 12:33:08 PM »

okay thanks for the information, i will let you know what they say about the device.

id be willing to pay that kind of price if its pain free and i get to go home within a week of surgery.

Alittletooshort · « **Reply #22 on:** May 20, 2015, 01:01:22 PM »

This way of thinking is unrealistic, read the diaries of some internal patients. No matter which Dr. you choose it will never be completly pain free and going home during the distraction phase isn't the best idea either.
Keep us updates about what they say.
Cheers!

microman · « **Reply #23 on:** May 20, 2015, 01:22:03 PM »

Yes I know, but according to the video he says

'current devices are painful and leads to complications such as infections or refractions'

which is the main reasoning to stay during distraction, but in this case they have a 'home care unit', I really think people are meant to go home post op and do it on their own with no complications.

a quote

' The lengthening procedure itself... is totally pain free'

But I'm not saying they're lying, I'm just saying what they are saying, if it's true, i would go with that.

as far as advertisements go, i haven't really seen heavy advertiseing for LL surgeries, I belive most doctors do it on the side of their main job, and i don't think its comparible to plastic surgery where there is a strong marketability for it.

Alittletooshort · « **Reply #24 on:** May 20, 2015, 04:38:54 PM »

Infections and refractures are not occuring often with internal devices in general and the pain is not as bad as it is with the ex fix. All internal devices share these benefits so this one here doesn't bring up anything new that's what I meant.

microman · « **Reply #25 on:** May 20, 2015, 04:43:51 PM »

Oh okay, what about the distraction, why is it still not recommended to go back home for it for current internal devices, it seems with this new device you can go back home, it is encouraged and even called 'home care unit'

I think spending more time at home makes it a much better proposition, it would change LL quite a bit as it makes it significantly more appealing.

even if it was half the pain of standard internal devices that would also be very much appreciated.

microman · « **Reply #26 on:** May 21, 2015, 10:03:34 AM »

okay i called them, here is the information.

how much
we can't say

when will it be available for comersialation,
we can't say

does it leave scars,
yes same as any internal

can i lengthen at home, outside of finland, 'home care kit',
it is up to your doctor to advise that, but it is designed that way

will you offer the surgery,
no, not us, if will be a lengthening clinic.

is it truly pain free
the surgery is not, but the lengthening process may be pain free

Joel · « **Reply #27 on:** May 21, 2015, 12:42:29 PM »

It is painless unless you are doing it to be taller, it's easier to lengthen bones that were not as long as they once were. - true story

NO WHERE DID IT MENTION COSMETIC ANYWHERE ICELAND TAXES 70% EFF UUU

programdude · « **Reply #28 on:** May 23, 2015, 05:11:03 PM »

Having your bones broken, and muscles stretched will never be pain free. Anyone who's been through LL know the trauma alone make the first weeks terrible.

Satans_nipples · « **Reply #29 on:** July 03, 2015, 08:40:10 AM »

Dear Synoste

I recently stumbled upon a news article promoting your development of
painless limb lengthening.
I am a very short male (5'3) that has spent hours browsing around the
cosmetic limb lengthening forums. If what your team has legitimately
developed what the news article said, then that it is truly a dream
come true. So i'm wondering,

1. approximately when will your services be available to public?
We are entering the first in man clinical trials this year and we anticipate to be able to enter the market end of next year.

2. Will you offer the treatment for cosmetic reasons? i.e people well
below the average height and
Unhappy with their stature
It is the decision of the surgeon if he/she will perform this operation for cosmetic reasons. We will not be placing any restrictions on use from that perspective.

3.Does the team have any insight on pricing? part of the reason i
haven't already gone through with limb lengthening is due to financial
reasons.
I am sorry but it is somewhat too early to discuss pricing of our device. Also, as you know most of the costs arise from the hospital and the device cost is only part of the total cost. We have no influence on the hospital pricing and therefore hospital selection should play a very important role in your decision making, too.

4.It's hard to believe that it is "painless". Nowadays as i'm sure you
are aware of, already exist many internal methods for limb lengthening
such as the precice, guichet nail. While using these methods are
relatively less painful compared to traditional external methods,
there is still pain involved. So my question is, how does your method
DIFFER from these existing internal methods?
You are completely right in this matter. Any surgical procedure involves pain and in especially the limb lengthening the tissue stretching can be painful for some patients; especially when a lot of lengthening is performed. Since we are also developing an implantable system, completely painless is probably an overstatement. Albizzia/Guichet nail is of course an anomaly, as it is known to be very painful due to its principle of lengthening mechanism. That is not something we anticipate to have.

Thanks for your time and looking forward to your website's updates!
Thanks, working on that…

Regards, Jonathan

microman · « **Reply #30 on:** July 03, 2015, 11:33:18 AM »

had no idea guinchet nail was meant to be more painful than other devices

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Author Topic: painless limb lengthening Finland? (Read 16545 times)