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[needheight]

I have been contacting Dr. Barinov and here's the E-mail I was sent recently:

Hello Dan,

The package price for LON surgery is 14 500 euros for a month's stay in hospital. Now we practice mostly LON alongside with Ilizarov. Lengthening by 6-7 cm (2-2.5") takes about 3 months and each extra month costs 1 000 including accommodation, meals and medical care. After lengthening is over, the frames are taken off and the person can go home. The nails are usually removed about a year after the surgery when the bones fully heal.

If the price suits you, I can tell you what documents you need to apply for a visa.


What are people's experiences with this doctor, I've been having trouble finding too many diaries.

[jfk]

I have been contacting Dr. Barinov and here's the E-mail I was sent recently:

Hello Dan,

The package price for LON surgery is 14 500 euros for a month's stay in hospital. Now we practice mostly LON alongside with Ilizarov. Lengthening by 6-7 cm (2-2.5") takes about 3 months and each extra month costs 1 000 including accommodation, meals and medical care. After lengthening is over, the frames are taken off and the person can go home. The nails are usually removed about a year after the surgery when the bones fully heal.

If the price suits you, I can tell you what documents you need to apply for a visa.


What are people's experiences with this doctor, I've been having trouble finding too many diaries.

Well the price a couple of months ago was 14 500 € for operation and 3 months of hospital stay.
I saw some LON patients but I must say they had a lot of problems with the nail. I would not recommend LON there. LATN or external only patients were doing better. In general I would say it is a good place to do LL. But there are some things I did not like; especially that they dont offer a physiotherapist...

[needheight]

Well the price a couple of months ago was 14 500 € for operation and 3 months of hospital stay.
I saw some LON patients but I must say they had a lot of problems with the nail. I would not recommend LON there. LATN or external only patients were doing better. In general I would say it is a good place to do LL. But there are some things I did not like; especially that they dont offer a physiotherapist...

Hello jfk,

What type of problems did you witness?

[jfk]

Hello jfk,

What type of problems did you witness?

hello needheight,

problems concerning LON: the nail preventing the bone to move (lengthen). Screws coming out. Strong pain because of nail movement. That is what I have witnessed. LATN seems to be a better option there. Or externals only.

[needheight]

hello needheight,

problems concerning LON: the nail preventing the bone to move (lengthen). Screws coming out. Strong pain because of nail movement. That is what I have witnessed. LATN seems to be a better option there. Or externals only.

Hmm, that's not good. I noticed that in February you said

 "I understand why people want to do LATN or LON although there is a risk of permanent knee pain. Looking back, maybe I should have done it too. I think if people go over 6 cm they should strongly consider LON/LATN."

Do you still agree with this?

Also I've read that you're doing LATN.. so I'm a little confused about why you said you wished you had done it too?

[jfk]

Hmm, that's not good. I noticed that in February you said

 "I understand why people want to do LATN or LON although there is a risk of permanent knee pain. Looking back, maybe I should have done it too. I think if people go over 6 cm they should strongly consider LON/LATN."

Do you still agree with this?

Also I've read that you're doing LATN.. so I'm a little confused about why you said you wished you had done it too?

I dont think that LON is a bad thing in general. Especially for people with very straight legs (like mine) it could be a very good option. LON patients and the doctors told me that I would have been a good candidate for LON because most of the problems LON patients had were because of bent tibias and that I have very straight tibias. But I would choose a experienced LON doctor.

Dont get me wrong I am very happy with my decision to have done LATN instead of LON. Dr. Barinov has only had 2 LON-leg lengthening patients. That is one of the reasons why his patients have big problems. He is just not that experienced with LON.

So yes, I still think that LON/LATN is superior to externals only. Now I would even say dont do externals if you go over 5 cm.   

[needheight]

Oh okay makes sense,

What would you say is the benefit of LATN over LON? Will I be able to be out of frames around the same time? If I plan on lengthening 7/8 CM when would I be walking again?

btw how much have you lengthened by and how long do you think until you can return to a semi normal life?

[Morgenst.]

I dont think that LON is a bad thing in general. Especially for people with very straight legs (like mine) it could be a very good option. LON patients and the doctors told me that I would have been a good candidate for LON because most of the problems LON patients had were because of bent tibias and that I have very straight tibias. But I would choose a experienced LON doctor.

Dont get me wrong I am very happy with my decision to have done LATN instead of LON. Dr. Barinov has only had 2 LON-leg lengthening patients. That is one of the reasons why his patients have big problems. He is just not that experienced with LON.

So yes, I still think that LON/LATN is superior to externals only. Now I would even say dont do externals if you go over 5 cm.   

What would you advise for someone wanting 5 to 6cm but is tight on money?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

What would you advise for someone wanting 5 to 6cm but is tight on money?

I would advise you that you get what you pay for.

[jfk]

What would you advise for someone wanting 5 to 6cm but is tight on money?

If you are tight on money I hope you have at least a lot of time. It would take about 10 - 12 months to get 5-6 cm with externals. You could go to Dr. Solomin and do externals. He has a good reputation and is cheap although I have not seen his work for myself.

If you have about 12 000 € it is doable with him. But you have to stay at home for consolidation. 

If you want to do it with Dr. Barinov you will spend a little more (14 000 - 15 000 €).

I hope that helped.

[jfk]

Oh okay makes sense,

What would you say is the benefit of LATN over LON? Will I be able to be out of frames around the same time? If I plan on lengthening 7/8 CM when would I be walking again?

btw how much have you lengthened by and how long do you think until you can return to a semi normal life?

With LATN you dont have to deal with a nail inside your bones during the lengthening phase. You dont need a nail inside your bone during lengthening in my opinion. The nail could cause a lot of complications like preventing you from lengthening (friction), causing you pain because the nail is dislocating, risk of nail bending is highter, screws could break or come out so that you need another operation and of course pain. As far as I understood the LATN nail has a bigger diameter so that it gives more stability than the LON nail. Risk of nail infection is much less with LATN because it is inserted much later. Also recovery time is shorter with LATN. You lose less time during lengthening if you dont have the nail because of the above mentioned problems. If you have bent tibias, LATN is much superior to LON. Dr. Dongoon also says that you cannot prevent valgisation (x-legs) 100 % with LON.   

[jfk]

Oh okay makes sense,

What would you say is the benefit of LATN over LON? Will I be able to be out of frames around the same time? If I plan on lengthening 7/8 CM when would I be walking again?

btw how much have you lengthened by and how long do you think until you can return to a semi normal life?

I would say the timeframe with LATN is faster because of two reasons: You dont lose time because of nail-problems during lengthening and the diameter of the LATN nail is bigger so you dont need much calcification around the nail.

Walking unaided: 1 year.

I have lengthened 7.8 cm. 1 year at least to get back to a semi-normal life. No running, jogging, jumping, playing sports, carrying heavy things. Working 8 hours a day could also be difficult but probably possible if it is a desk job. 

[KrP1]

one year to walk unaided, this surgery takes so long for recovery...

[jfk]

one year to walk unaided, this surgery takes so long for recovery...

For tibias yes. Operation on femurs is another story.

[Alittletooshort]

What are the downsides of LON\LATN for femurs? Besides the discomfort obviously

[KrP1]

What are the downsides of LON\LATN for femurs? Besides the discomfort obviously?

i know that the lose of ROM is probably the worst, i havent seen any successful diary of LON in femurs yet, i really would like to see it , in the other fórum all the LON femur cases went really bad

[Alittletooshort]

Bluebarbie's case seems quit succsessful. If it's just the pain it shouldn't be too bad if you only aim for something below the 5cm mark.

[KrP1]

Bluebarbie's case seems quit succsessful. If it's just the pain it shouldn't be too bad if you only aim for something below the 5cm mark.

Yeah. But she is finishing her lengthening i wouldnt think a diary is sucessful before that person could walk unaided and normal without big issues

[Alittletooshort]

You're right, I'd be so awesome especially if you are not interested in large amounts like me. 50k+ for 4 or 5 cm's is simply not worth the amount.

[KrP1]

You're right, I'd be so awesome especially if you are not interested in large amounts like me. 50k+ for 4 or 5 cm's is simply not worth the amount.

yeah , im interested too, it will be great if we could see more LON in femur diaries

[Alittletooshort]

Lon or latn would both be fine, I just don't want to spend a fortune on the nails for only getting a couple of cm's.

[needheight]

I would say the timeframe with LATN is faster because of two reasons: You dont lose time because of nail-problems during lengthening and the diameter of the LATN nail is bigger so you dont need much calcification around the nail.

Walking unaided: 1 year.

I have lengthened 7.8 cm. 1 year at least to get back to a semi-normal life. No running, jogging, jumping, playing sports, carrying heavy things. Working 8 hours a day could also be difficult but probably possible if it is a desk job.

Hmm okay, how long do you think you'll be in Russia for? When you get home what do you think you'll be able to do? I just want to know how long it will be until I can be at home.

[KiloKAHN]

LATN has a disadvantage that LON doesn't have, which is that taking the frame off as early as you do with LATN and then putting a rod through the bone canal has a chance of injuring the regenerate because it's still soft.

[jfk]

LATN has a disadvantage that LON doesn't have, which is that taking the frame off as early as you do with LATN and then putting a rod through the bone canal has a chance of injuring the regenerate because it's still soft.

I doubt both of your arguments. I dont think you can take off the frame earlier with LON because of this: With LATN you dont have nail related breaks of lengthening. For example you have to take a break of lengthening because of pain that is caused by the nail or a screw coming out or the nail moving and causing pain. Thats why I think lengthening with LON takes longer and the frame is taken off later. That is exactly what I have seen from LON patients in Volgograd.

I heard the second argument also from another patient. I am not a doctor but it does not make sense to me. If you put a nail into the bone and through the marrow you "put aside" soft bone material right? The material has to "make room" for the nail and moves to the side. That means it compresses. In my thinking the material is compressed in less space now and is more dense now. It is not injured but compressed.

Kilokhan, did you hear that from your doctor or did you read studies about it? I would be happy to know more about this.

[bluebarbie]

Yes.. The new bone is not hard enough so it does get compressed. It's one of the disadvantages, but if you spend abit more time in frames and find your callus good enough for the internal nailing surgery it's not a big problem. I did 8.4cms, stayed 2.5 months in frames after finished lengthening and I lost only about 4 or 5mms. But each individual is not the same right? And also it depends on how skiLL Forumul and precise your doctor is, I think.