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[Overdozer]

So I was just thinking... I believe I've made quite some mistakes when deciding and planning my LL journay. The path I choose is taking too much time and I'm fking dying of impatience. So what could I've done better? What was the best way to get a huge height increase? Now I'll be assuming that you have usual proportions of a short male, no gorilla arms and no 100 cm sitting height. How would you do it, if you wanted, for example, a 15 cm gain?

The cheap way:
1. LON bilateral femurs 7.5 cm in Russia. Lenthening over nail eliminates some of the obvious and common problems of external fixation, while still staying pretty cheap. I've actually been offered LON by my surgeon here at Saint-Petersburg, but I declined it, thinking it's too invasive and traumatic. Guess he knew better in the end. I could lengthen 7.5 cm in under 3 months (I had a faster consolidation, thus higher lengthening rate), then the externals would be removed.
2. External tibias 7.5 cm right after femur externals removal. As many of you know already, intramedullary reaming of tibia carries significant risks of permament knee pain, so I don't consider it a valid option. It would take me another 3 months to complete the lengthening goal. That's 6 months.
3. External humerus 3 cm on month 8, two months in consolidation period. With an adequate fixation stability, you should be able to walk unaided at this point, and your arms should be free. Humerus lengtheing is necessary at this point, when you've lengthened more than 10 cm. Lengthening just 3 cm should take no more, than 4 months in total.
4. At month 12, all the externals would be removed. That's just one year for 15 cm (max) gain.
5. A HGH+Testosterone therapy should be initialized to enchance muscle and bone recovery speed. You still can't lift weights, because your bones aren't strong enough.
6. At month 16 you can start weight training (still continuing the therapy), beginning your transformation to Master Race 6' Greek God 100kg berserk pure shredded muscle rage machine SPILLING fkING TESTOSTERONE OUTTA YOUR EYES, SCREAMING LIKE A WILD ANIMAL SLAYING EVERYONE ON YOUR WAY, A BROTHER TO THE DARKNESS, A MASTER TO THE SLAVES I AM THE SOUL DESCENDENT OF THE FIRE AND THE RAGE I WAS WROUGHT UPON THE EARTH BORN TO RULE AND BATTLE WAGE BY THE TOTAL DOMINATION OF THE WORLD IN MY COMMAND BY THE AIR AND THE WATER BY THE FIRE AND THE LAND I GIVE NO EXPLANATION I WAS BRANDED BY THE WILL BRINGER OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION TO ALL THAT I NOW KILL AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH



Damn, ain't that a beasty plan? fk me with a stick, why haven't I thought about it earlier...

[Melan_sprint]

nice plan 2 bad you will be permanently crippled after month 6 without walking LMAO..

And stop the zeez referenses, cringeworthy stuff.

[Overdozer]

nice plan 2 bad you will be permanently crippled after month 6 without walking LMAO..

What are you talking about? Stop spreading nonsense I tell you. My plan is perfect.

[jfk]

Exclide you forget that it is not just about getting the centimeters but about getting back to "normal". 15 cm in one year is impossible!!! It is like saying if you lengthen 1 mm every day for one year you can get 36 cm in one year! It is pointless if you dont count the time it takes to get back to normal.

If someone wants these huge amounts then you do it in two steps with breakes of at least 2 years in between. It is just crazy in my opinion to do it in two stages without getting back to normal once.

So the best way to get 15 cm: Doing femurs 8.5 cm (internal preferred). Wait 2 years after first surgery to get back to "normal". Do tibias (LATN) 6.5 cm. In 3 years total you could be done.

One year, 15 cm??? IMPOSSIBLE!

[Uppland]

In my opinion 13CM should be the theoretical max whilst staying somewhat safe in terms of recovery and proportions.

That is 6CM in tibiae plus 7CM in femurs and perhaps also 2-3CM in humerus if you think you would benefit.

I would not recommend this to anyone though, your recovery will not be very good and neither will your look.

[Overdozer]

If someone wants these huge amounts then you do it in two steps with breakes of at least 2 years in between. It is just crazy in my opinion to do it in two stages without getting back to normal once.

Sorry, this doesn't make any sense. Your muscles start recovering as soon as you stop lengthening them. Try to understand that. It's all about time managment, you don't want to spend all your life lengthening your limbs. Plus, a blasting combo of growth hormone and testosterone should speed up your recovery. I'm talking from experience. I've made a mistake and that resulted in one year down the toilet. Sharing my thoughts for people, who don't want to go the same route.

In my opinion 13CM should be the theoretical max whilst staying somewhat safe in terms of recovery and proportions.

All 'limits' are highly dependant on the individual. Their starting proportions, the ability of soft tissues to stretch, bone healing capabilities, mental stability, etc. The only reason I stated '15' because it's a rounded number. It makes sense, because the next closest ones is 20, which will be too much for almost all the cases, and 10, which is not that much to call it a limit. It's a general guideline, though I should've stated that it's only valid when you're no taller than 170 cm.

[Blackhawk]

So I was just thinking... I believe I've made quite some mistakes when deciding and planning my LL journay. The path I choose is taking too much time and I'm fking dying of impatience. So what could I've done better? What was the best way to get a huge height increase? Now I'll be assuming that you have usual proportions of a short male, no gorilla arms and no 100 cm sitting height. How would you do it, if you wanted, for example, a 15 cm gain?

The cheap way:
1. LON bilateral femurs 7.5 cm in Russia. Lenthening over nail eliminates some of the obvious and common problems of external fixation, while still staying pretty cheap. I've actually been offered LON by my surgeon here at Saint-Petersburg, but I declined it, thinking it's too invasive and traumatic. Guess he knew better in the end. I could lengthen 7.5 cm in under 3 months (I had a faster consolidation, thus higher lengthening rate), then the externals would be removed.
2. External tibias 7.5 cm right after femur externals removal. As many of you know already, intramedullary reaming of tibia carries significant risks of permament knee pain, so I don't consider it a valid option. It would take me another 3 months to complete the lengthening goal. That's 6 months.
3. External humerus 3 cm on month 8, two months in consolidation period. With an adequate fixation stability, you should be able to walk unaided at this point, and your arms should be free. Humerus lengtheing is necessary at this point, when you've lengthened more than 10 cm. Lengthening just 3 cm should take no more, than 4 months in total.
4. At month 12, all the externals would be removed. That's just one year for 15 cm (max) gain.
5. A HGH+Testosterone therapy should be initialized to enchance muscle and bone recovery speed. You still can't lift weights, because your bones aren't strong enough.
6. At month 16 you can start weight training (still continuing the therapy), beginning your transformation to Master Race 6' Greek God 100kg berserk pure shredded muscle rage machine SPILLING fkING TESTOSTERONE OUTTA YOUR EYES, SCREAMING LIKE A WILD ANIMAL SLAYING EVERYONE ON YOUR WAY, A BROTHER TO THE DARKNESS, A MASTER TO THE SLAVES I AM THE SOUL DESCENDENT OF THE FIRE AND THE RAGE I WAS WROUGHT UPON THE EARTH BORN TO RULE AND BATTLE WAGE BY THE TOTAL DOMINATION OF THE WORLD IN MY COMMAND BY THE AIR AND THE WATER BY THE FIRE AND THE LAND I GIVE NO EXPLANATION I WAS BRANDED BY THE WILL BRINGER OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION TO ALL THAT I NOW KILL AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH



Damn, ain't that a beasty plan? fk me with a stick, why haven't I thought about it earlier...

Mr exclide, what you've just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent plan were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Melan_sprint]

No its not..Its fking retatarded to be honest. My brain hurts to even explain further but god luck with that scenario.

[Overdozer]

Mr exclide, what you've just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent plan were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

You're a master of copy paste, huh?

God damn it, that's what you get for contributing to people. Fk off, punks.

[jfk]

You're a master of copy paste, huh?

God damn it, that's what you get for contributing to people. fk off, punks.

Hey exclide,

you see in the reactions of people how far your scenario is from reality. You try to make lengthening 15 cm look easy! But the reality is that it is very very hard and it takes YEARS to recover from that. What wonders me the most is that these statements come from someone who is actually a LL patient himself! Everyone who recovers from LL experiences that recovery takes AGES!!! I did almost 8 cm myself and it will take me about 1 full year until I can walk "normally". Running??? Forget about it. Maybe another 1 year after that.

This is not the first time you make statements like this. Last time you tried to tell people that you can do 4 cm with LON by wearing the frame for only one month! Totally bull  and I try to put things right and tell you that I know LON patients. I mean they were my roommates! I talked to them and nobody could confirm what you said. Then I try to explain to you that your statements are not right but you insist that you are right.

Your problem, not only in LL but probably in general is that you think you know everything. And you dont listen to no one. Thinking to know everything is even worse than not knowing things. Because if you dont know things you can get the information, but if you think you know everything and YOU HAVE NO IDEA then you make wrong decisions. That is also the reason why you rejected to think about LON that was offered to you in St. Petersburg. Now you regret it. You thought you knew BUT YOU HAD NO IDEA.

Anyway you have my respect for doing cross- and then humerus lengthening. But you have to know that the line between heroic and super-dumb is very thin. You are not superman and you can not bend spacetime! Didnt you watch the latest trailer of Superman vs. Batman? Batman promises Superman in the end of the trailer "Tell me, do you bleed? You will!". That reminds me of that scene Even Superman will bleed

15 cm takes about 3 years. Dont tell people differently because it is not true. You do cross-lengthening and I think you want something like 15 cm right? If you post a video of you running before 3 years are up you are my personal hero. I dont think it will happen.

I think it is good if you go on contributing to this forum because you do something really special. But please stick to reality and dont mislead people.

[Descreteuser]

It's really frustrating reading this post.. Your talking about gaining 15cm in 1 year and being recovered as if you know what your talking about.. Why don't you listen to peoples advice.. You wouldn't know the 1st thing involved with this whole process.. It's bloody tough.. So I suggest you listen to what everyone else is telling you cause they are making much more sense than you are.. Or you can be mr 'know it all' and do your so called 'plan' and regret it for the rest of your life..

[Overdozer]

I'm no batman, but I can tell that the whole lengthening experience wasn't all that bad for me. We have enough people here advocating how painful and complicated it is, now let me not join that, as I've got MY experience to share.

You're accusing me of ignorance and that I "don't listen to anyone". But who should I listen to, you? You're claiming you need 3 years to recover and yet you fail to provide any reasoning. It's just an empty claim, speculation. I claim you can lengthen 15 cm, also lengthen your arms and recover in 1.5 years, if you do it my way. Why are you so strongly against accepting that it is possible? If you had a bad LL experience, it doesn't mean everyone else is going to have it bad too.

This is not the first time you make statements like this. Last time you tried to tell people that you can do 4 cm with LON by wearing the frame for only one month! Totally bullcrap and I try to put things right and tell you that I know LON patients. I mean they were my roommates! I talked to them and nobody could confirm what you said. Then I try to explain to you that your statements are not right but you insist that you are right.

Oh, lets get back to this, shall we? The thing is that I too had roommates doing LON and they all did 3.5 cm under 36 days. Here's how:
1. They had the surgery. After they waited 5 days before initalizing distraction.
2. They lengthened at a rate of 1mm/1.25mm a day. That results in 3.5 cm in 31 days. (16*1.25 + 15*1)
3. They had their external fixators removed. That's 36 days total.

Now tell me why are you calling this a "total bullcrap". Can you actually reason?

It's really frustrating reading this post.. Your talking about gaining 15cm in 1 year and being recovered as if you know what your talking about.. Why don't you listen to peoples advice.. You wouldn't know the 1st thing involved with this whole process.. It's bloody tough.. So I suggest you listen to what everyone else is telling you cause they are making much more sense than you are.. Or you can be mr 'know it all' and do your so called 'plan' and regret it for the rest of your life..

I'm a LL patient, you aren't in a position to tell me that.

[jfk]

I'm no batman, but I can tell that the whole lengthening experience wasn't all that bad for me. We have enough people here advocating how painful and complicated it is, now let me not join that, as I've got MY experience to share.

You're accusing me of ignorance and that I "don't listen to anyone". But who should I listen to, you? You're claiming you need 3 years to recover and yet you fail to provide any reasoning. It's just an empty claim, speculation. I claim you can lengthen 15 cm, also lengthen your arms and recover in 1.5 years, if you do it my way. Why are you so strongly against accepting that it is possible? If you had a bad LL experience, it doesn't mean everyone else is going to have it bad too.
Oh, lets get back to this, shall we? The thing is that I too had roommates doing LON and they all did 3.5 cm under 36 days. Here's how:
1. They had the surgery. After they waited 5 days before initalizing distraction.
2. They lengthened at a rate of 1mm/1.25mm a day. That results in 3.5 cm in 31 days. (16*1.25 + 15*1)
3. They had their external fixators removed. That's 36 days total.

Now tell me why are you calling this a "total bullcrap". Can you actually reason?

I'm a LL patient, you aren't in a position to tell me that.

So you do say your roommate got the frame off after 36 days? If you had roommates who did this then I believe you. I have seen people with different complications like it was not lengthening because of the nail or the nail moved and caused pain or because of friction between nail and bone they could hardly lengthen. But what wonders me more is after they stopped lengthening they had to wait 1 or 2 months (consolidation) until they could actually take the frame off. Was that not the case with your roommates?

And I dont know why you changed it now to 1.5 years but anyway. For me you have to be almost normal so that you can say you are done with it. That means you have to be able to run. I really cannot imagine someone doing 15 cm and being able to do that after 1.5 years. I cannot even imagine myself doing that after 1.5 years and I lengthened almost half of 15 cm!!!!! This is my reasoning. What is your reasoning that it is possible in 1.5 years?

I mean look at you, can you even imagine to be able to run after 1.5 years or even 2 years? Seriously, man. You need more time for all of that. And I would strongly recommend to take your time. Rushing through LL is a bad idea man. Rushing and doing 15 cm? INSANITY.

But look how you count: You just add up the lengthening phases and thats it. 3 months + 3 months and you are done. Lets go surfing now... Man are you joking??? How can I reason with that? Your theory is a fking joke. EVERYBODY on the forum tells you that. But you dont even have a single doubt in your mind that you might be too optimistic.

[Overdozer]

But what wonders me more is after they stopped lengthening they had to wait 1 or 2 months (consolidation) until they could actually take the frame off. Was that not the case with your roommates?

No, you're probably confusing LON with LATN. With LON the nail is inserted at the same time with external device. And with LATN it is inserted after distraction phase, at the same time with external device removal and you need some bone density in the first place, so you can safely remove the external.

About running - well, I never mentioned it. It's going to take more time obviously, before you can run adequately, but for 'general recovery' - that is, when you're able to walk fine, do everyday activites - I believe it's a reasonable timeframe. If everything goes smooth of course. Honestly, I'm not worried much about running - when I get to weight training and steroid abuse, I'll never have to run, because everyone will be running away from ME.

[Descreteuser]

So your basing your theory on the fact that it can't be disproven? Your a fool..

[Melan_sprint]

No, you're probably confusing LON with LATN. With LON the nail is inserted at the same time with external device. And with LATN it is inserted after distraction phase, at the same time with external device removal and you need some bone density in the first place, so you can safely remove the external.

About running - well, I never mentioned it. It's going to take more time obviously, before you can run adequately, but for 'general recovery' - that is, when you're able to walk fine, do everyday activites - I believe it's a reasonable timeframe. If everything goes smooth of course. Honestly, I'm not worried much about running - when I get to weight training and steroid abuse, I'll never have to run, because everyone will be running away from ME.

Go for it. Be our lab rat. See if it works and come back here 

[jfk]

No, you're probably confusing LON with LATN. With LON the nail is inserted at the same time with external device. And with LATN it is inserted after distraction phase, at the same time with external device removal and you need some bone density in the first place, so you can safely remove the external.

About running - well, I never mentioned it. It's going to take more time obviously, before you can run adequately, but for 'general recovery' - that is, when you're able to walk fine, do everyday activites - I believe it's a reasonable timeframe. If everything goes smooth of course. Honestly, I'm not worried much about running - when I get to weight training and steroid abuse, I'll never have to run, because everyone will be running away from ME.

No I am not confusing anything. Man I AM DOING LATN and I have seen people doing LON. I know exactly what I am talking about. Actually the exact opposite of what you are saying is the truth. The LATN nail is thicker therefore needs less consolidation around the nail to be able to get the frame taken off. With LON you need more consolidation to be able to get the frame off. That is why I am asking you again because I did not get any answer: Did you see with your own eyes that people got the frame off after 36 days doing LON? I cannot imagine that.

Then you say after having done 15 cm you should be able to walk unaided after 8 months so you could do humerus lengthening! I dont know if I should laugh or be angry about the biggest bullcrap I have ever heard here on the forum. Man exclide your reputation is damaged! I am doing almost 8 cm and I am 9 months post-OP and I am not walking unaided !!! How in the world do you make up these things??? That is completely false. Double or triple the time then you could be near reality. 

I mean you will have done 15 cm and you will see for yourself that it is fking hard and it will take you at least 3 years from first operation to be halfway back to normal...You are a fking joke with your unrealistic timeframes...

[Overdozer]

The LATN nail is thicker therefore needs less consolidation around the nail to be able to get the frame taken off. With LON you need more consolidation to be able to get the frame off.

Do you even know what LATN is? Is stands for Lengthen and Then Nail. You can't remove the external fixator to insert a nail, if the newly generated bone isn't strong enough, as that would result in its collapse. LON stands for Lengthening OVER Nail, which means the nail is installed with the external fixator, and as soon as the lengthening is complete, the fixator can be safely removed. There's not a single reason to leave the externals and wait for consolidation, as the nails now are carrying the weight, the only reason you install the external frames in the fisrt place is to get their LENGTHENING functionality. As soon as lengthening is over, they become useless, understand? Do you know what a self-lengthening nail is? You know, like G-nail, Betzbone, Precise 2? They don't need the external frames, because they can lengthen themselves! That's why they're so expensive!

Then you say after having done 15 cm you should be able to walk unaided after 8 months

So? I was walking unaided 2 months post lengthening, what are you trying to say, I'm lying? Like I said, if you had a bad lengthening experience, or you're just being lazy with walking and weightbearing, which results in muscle atrophy, don't project that into everyone else. Check ShyShy's diary for example - he was walking unaided two month post OP, he must be lying too, right?

Stop being so stubborn. You're by no means an expert of LL.

[crimsontide]

jfk,

since you got latn... how is the knee pain

[needheight]

I think there's a reason Exclide was banned from the old forum.... his other posts are weird and all over the place and some of the   he posts is perverted and unnecessary. Reminds me a lot of itsmylife.

[Overdozer]

I think there's a reason Exclide was banned from the old forum.... his other posts are weird and all over the place and some of the crap he posts is perverted and unnecessary. Reminds me a lot of itsmylife.

I wasn't banned actually it was a host bug, but I decided to stay anyways because I didn't like MT's censor policy. You're also the one trying to start a flame war in a random thread, which is completely unnecessary.

[heightangel]

I like Exclide. He isn't perverted! 

[jfk]

jfk,

since you got latn... how is the knee pain

Hi crimsontide,

I dont have knee pain but I have not kneeled on the floor or something. I need more time before I can really test my knees. But no pain when standing, sitting or walking...

[crimsontide]

ty jfk,

knee pain while walking is what i'd be worried about...  i think that nailing when done correctly isn't a big risk


a few top drs have told me as much... i definitely am gonna get  my left fixed acutely with a nail and be done with this once and for all

[jfk]

Do you even know what LATN is? Is stands for Lengthen and Then Nail. You can't remove the external fixator to insert a nail, if the newly generated bone isn't strong enough, as that would result in its collapse. LON stands for Lengthening OVER Nail, which means the nail is installed with the external fixator, and as soon as the lengthening is complete, the fixator can be safely removed. There's not a single reason to leave the externals and wait for consolidation, as the nails now are carrying the weight, the only reason you install the external frames in the fisrt place is to get their LENGTHENING functionality. As soon as lengthening is over, they become useless, understand? Do you know what a self-lengthening nail is? You know, like G-nail, Betzbone, Precise 2? They don't need the external frames, because they can lengthen themselves! That's why they're so expensive!
So? I was walking unaided 2 months post lengthening, what are you trying to say, I'm lying? Like I said, if you had a bad lengthening experience, or you're just being lazy with walking and weightbearing, which results in muscle atrophy, don't project that into everyone else. Check ShyShy's diary for example - he was walking unaided two month post OP, he must be lying too, right?

Stop being so stubborn. You're by no means an expert of LL.

Now you are telling a guy who is doing LATN what LATN is !!! Okay wait let me explain to you what cross-lengthening is ))))

Why are you talking of self-lengthening nails now?!?!? If you read what I have written then you would have seen that I recommended doing femurs with self-lengthening nails. So why would I not know what they are??? Are you actually reading your posts before you post something?

And about the walking unaided. Wow great, there was a little timeframe where you could walk unaided. Sensational. Guess what, me too!!! But later (7-8 cm) I could not. I assume you can not neither right now. Why would a little timeframe where you could walk unaided help with doing humerus lengthening afterwards??? You did 7.5 cm. You can not walk unaided now. But in your theory you do 15 and then you will be able to walk unaided??? Senseless...

Am I the only guy who is actually really talking in detail about your senseless theory? Man, why didnt I just say "do penis-lengthening after that" or "retarded theory" or something like the other guys....A waste of time. Really...

[jfk]

ty jfk,

knee pain while walking is what i'd be worried about...  i think that nailing when done correctly isn't a big risk


a few top drs have told me as much... i definitely am gonna get  my left fixed acutely with a nail and be done with this once and for all

You are welcome. I have the same opinion like you. If it is done correctly the risk is minimal. Dr. Barinov told me there is a minimal risk because he is going right under the knee and not touching the knee. So minimal risk he said.

Do you already know where you want to do it? Just curious...

[KrP1]

jfk, you got a private msg

[crimsontide]

im in ny cuurently,

not exactly sure yet, but have to get left leg fixed

if you ever saw rgkey's  deformity... mine is actually much worse

his ankle and knee are actually still aligned correctly... just that his bond has a weird  outward bend

my ankle and knee are badly malaligned... i have no idea how i  even walk, and i walk with zero pain

im gonna try to post x ray... but definitely getting nail in, and fixing it acutely in the surgery...

just wanna be over with this... time it took me to recover is gonna wind being average.....

 i wonder if  or when we will run  again though

[jfk]

im in ny cuurently,

not exactly sure yet, but have to get left leg fixed

if you ever saw rgkey's  deformity... mine is actually much worse

his ankle and knee are actually still aligned correctly... just that his bond has a weird  outward bend

my ankle and knee are badly malaligned... i have no idea how i  even walk, and i walk with zero pain

im gonna try to post x ray... but definitely getting nail in, and fixing it acutely in the surgery...

just wanna be over with this... time it took me to recover is gonna wind being average.....

 i wonder if  or when we will run  again though

Sad to hear that man! At least there is no pain! Yes x-rays would be greatly appreciated.

Hope you will get it fixed soon. Keep us updated !!!