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[Taller]

We, the LL community, are all too familiar with Sysop/Apotheosis. Unfortunately much of his fame has come from his habitual lying, or at the least, stretching of the truth.

One area in which the prophet, a former (and possibly current?) patient of Dr. Betz, stretches the truth is by claiming that he is completely proportional after lengthening over 20 CM. He posted before and after-LL pictures of himself to "prove" this. Shown first are the pictures he posted, taken straight from the lion's mouth. Notice how, while the waistlines are aligned in both pictures, in the after picture, Sysop's torso is smaller. The picture was taken from farther away and from a different angle! He is also wearing his briefs lower to make his torso look longer and his shoulders are also pushed down compared to the first photo.

To be completely fair in the representation of how Sysop looks following ~21 CM of LL, I took his before photo and added 11 CM to his tibiae and 9.5 CM to his femurs. This way, his shoulder position, and the photograph distance and angle remain constant. The result: the real Sysop.

You be the judge of whether you'd like to look proportionally similar to him or not. At least now the community has an accurate visual representation of what he actually looks like. I chose to post this because I feel that Sysop should have been honest about his proportions from the start if he was going to use them for educational/informative purposes on old forum .

[Daylight]

the best thing to judge someone proportion is to put him next to somebody else who is naturally at his height.

[An_Apple_A_Day]

You know what?

I actually think he looks fine.

I realise that is perhaps not what some people will want to hear but I don't personally think his proportions are off at all.

[KiloKAHN]

I don't think he looks all that bad, but hopefully people don't take what he did and automatically assume it's the right choice for them. He may look okay but he'll never get anywhere close to prior strength or flexibility having lengthened as much as he did. I'm sorry, but no amount of persuading is going to convince me that one can lengthen that extensively and not be met with severe complications later down the line.

Don't sacrifice an absurd amount of function just for that extra height.

[LLL]

The trick is to look at the pictures a bit zoomed out. You'll see it looks like he is standing on stilts. Also then picture him sitting down on a chair or a sofa to reveal his short torso with way too long legs.

Did anyone who met him in India take any pictures?

[Taller]

You know what?

I actually think he looks fine.

I realise that is perhaps not what some people will want to hear but I don't personally think his proportions are off at all.

I have to partially agree with you and admit that I would probably be much more physically intimidated by him, if I met him in person, at 6'3 than at a hair under 5'7. And I can't deny that, with a long shirt on, few would notice his disproportionality. Honestly, I think getting his humerus bones lengthened may not be such a bad thing. He'll look more proportional and, since few people have done it while many are interested, he'll be the guinea pig for once. I do greatly admire that he followed his dream to be taller. I was just a bit upset about how he gave a skewed image of what he looked like after LL by manipulating camera angle and a number of other variables, and not stating it, when these variables clearly affected the image he showed old forum  members significantly, possibly giving them unreasonable expectations or impressions regarding LL.

[ChrisIsaak]

Apo does look unproportional at the second photo, which you photoshopped, but since we don't usually walk around, go to work, go to the park, to the movies etc. with boxer briefs, I think he should be fine. He just has to remember to wear something when going out 

[KiloKAHN]

I have to partially agree with you and admit that I would probably be much more physically intimidated by him, if I met him in person, at 6'3 than at a hair under 5'7. And I can't deny that, with a long shirt on, few would notice his disproportionality. Honestly, I think getting his humerus bones lengthened may not be such a bad thing. He'll look more proportional and, since few people have done it while many are interested, he'll be the guinea pig for once. I do greatly admire that he followed his dream to be taller. I was just a bit upset about how he gave a skewed image of what he looked like after LL by manipulating camera angle and a number of other variables, and not stating it, when these variables clearly affected the image he showed old forum  members significantly, possibly giving them unreasonable expectations or impressions regarding LL.

You have to figure that if he tried to physically intimidate anyone with his height and they called him out on it, he'd be in trouble. With weakening his legs from that much lengthening, a 5'3 guy could embarrass him physically with little difficulty.

2¢

[ChrisIsaak]

Kilokahn,

Theoretically this might be absolutely true, but in the "modern world" we human beings don't usually beat the crap out of each other to intimidate others. Physical intimidation, however, exists in height, which Apo now has plenty of. So in a practical sense, his legs might not be strong, but who would know about it except for himself, which makes him intimidating at the end. I agree that it's not functional (physically), but it's functional (socially).

I would rather be a normal 5'11 (180 cm) guy than a 5'5 (165 cm) pro UFC fighter.

[KiloKAHN]

Kilokahn,

Theoretically this might be absolutely true, but in the "modern world" we human beings don't usually beat the crap out of each other to intimidate others. Physical intimidation, however, exists in height, which Apo now has plenty of. So in a practical sense, his legs might not be strong, but who would know about it except for himself, which makes him intimidating at the end. I agree that it's not functional (physically), but it's functional (socially).

I would rather be a normal 5'11 (180 cm) guy than a 5'5 (165 cm) pro UFC fighter.

I think most people would rather be an average 5'11 than a shredded 5'5 pro fighter. But what good is having the height if you're going to move like a grandfather the rest of your life and develop multiple problems down the line like early arthritis, permanent shin splints, complications with your blood vessels and nerves, etc? I don't think handicapped people get much social benefits, even the tall ones.

[ChrisIsaak]

Apo did too much lengthening indeed; but if someone stuck along with a good doctor and never did more than 8 cm on femurs and 6,5 cm tibias, I believe they would be fine. Do you have a reason to believe that Apo currently walks like an old man? Are there any videos of showing him walking?

[Moubgf]

I'm wondering does this stilt look apply to, i should not say only him but let's say like me i want 180 cm 5'11 (starting height 165-169).

My legs wont be lengthened as much as his. But i think they look like stilts if you go into the "tall over 6'0" cathegory no?.

Sorry if you did not understand what i ment.
Been checking proportions for the last 2 years and i have noticed that it is over 5'11 that proportions become a problem. At 5'11 you are still "too short" for it to be of big significance.

[Sweden]

The picture has to be taken further away. He is 20cm taller now.

--------------

I don't know about his pictures. If taken so close it's difficult to see if something's wrong with his proportions.
Some pictures of me doesn't look that good I think bc you can see that the legs are long. Doesn't look natural.
It could be bc I'm fit and Apo is fat that he gets away with it better.
I was taller than Apo to begin with. Height, wingspan, sitting height.

I still feel like a little guy being 180cm, especially when I sit down with people.

I have a hard time believing that Apo is lengthening his arms. I know he mentioned it before but actually doing it is completely something else.

[Moubgf]

Sweden, may i ask how is your eye level compared to the rest of the population around you. Could you put on slippers and just go down to the store without feeling "dwarfed" by other people?. And maybe you see what you want to see?. To be honest no one cares about sitting height.

i am close as tall as my 6'1 friend sitting down and he has the worst posture and he don't even care that he is smaller because standing up is all that really matters.

[Taller]

I was taller than Apo to begin with. Height, wingspan, sitting height.

I still feel like a little guy being 180cm, especially when I sit down with people.

Interesting that you feel this way. What is your sitting height, Sweden?

[Daylight]

The second picture looks really nasty... Seriously man, I showed it to my friends and they say he looks like an alien. I feel bad for him if he really looks like that in real life. I don't know why some of you think that he still looks normal in that second picture...

[Sweden]

Interesting that you feel this way. What is your sitting height, Sweden?

Around 93 something. I remember it was like ~2cm taller than Apo.

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I don't think I'm dwarfed but I can see that almost everyone is taller than me. I sometimes try to remember how small I must have been.

All of my friends are still taller than me. Well except maybe one that was 1-2cm taller than me before. I haven't seen him in 5 months now but we spoke the other day so I'll see him tomorrow.
Last time we met I was on crutches.
I can't say I felt significant taller than him.

[jenslarsen]

Around 93 something. I remember it was like ~2cm taller than Apo.

-------------

I don't think I'm dwarfed but I can see that almost everyone is taller than me. I sometimes try to remember how small I must have been.

All of my friends are still taller than me. Well except maybe one that was 1-2cm taller than me before. I haven't seen him in 5 months now but we spoke the other day so I'll see him tomorrow.
Last time we met I was on crutches.
I can't say I felt significant taller than him.

Do you mean that they are taller than you while sitting or standing?

I find it a bit weird that you almost only have friends taller than 180 even in Sweden, because there should be around 50% below that height, it's almost the average after all. Are you sure of their heights or could it be that perception and old height neurosis come into play? Here in Norway I am a little over 170 and almost always the shortest guy around, but there are many 175-178 guys and even some my height or a little taller than me (̃~172-173).. I even know of guys that are shorter (~165) but they're obviously a minority.

Do you plan on staying in Sweden?

[Sweden]

Do you mean that they are taller than you while sitting or standing?

I find it a bit weird that you almost only have friends taller than 180 even in Sweden, because there should be around 50% below that height, it's almost the average after all. Are you sure of their heights or could it be that perception and old height neurosis come into play? Here in Norway I am a little over 170 and almost always the shortest guy around, but there are many 175-178 guys and even some my height or a little taller than me (̃~172-173).. I even know of guys that are shorter (~165) but they're obviously a minority.

Do you plan on staying in Sweden?

Yes I plan to stay.

I'm taller than most of my team mates so doing another 5cm would totally embarrass myself.

[Blackhawk]

I'm taller than most of my team mates so doing another 5cm would totally embarrass myself.

F*ck 'em!  If you really want a few more cms then do it and don't worry about what people think.

[sadboy]

I know this is random but Apotheosis's femurs look really bad, and I've seen other cosmetic limb lengthening pictures with people who had thin femurs like him after doing the surgery. I guess mine will look bad as well? Oh great I don't even know how much I should lengthen to begin with and I don't even know if I will even be satisfied. Guys, what should I do?

[ewt]

he doesn't look unproportioned at all, if you look at male models, lots of them have longer legs than usual, sure there are lots of men with 6'1 frame, but most model chosen because they have disproportioned legs that make them looks taller and slimmer, i know this from my friends who work at modeling agency

[secondclasscitizen]

I don't personally think he looks any different. He's certainly not someone I would look at and automatically notice had these proportions. The only thing that does concern me which several people brought up is the sitting height. Although I do wonder if it is something that the general population would really notice. For Apotheosis, it may be somewhat noticeable but in the interview he did with 20/20 I could not see a major difference between him and the interviewer. Obviously we are aware of it because it has come to our attention, but with things such as slouching would sitting height really be a big deal...

[KiloKAHN]

Of course, the biggest issue with anyone lengthening the amount Apotheosis did is the range of lifelong problems you will have afterward. His potential for developing arthritis later down the line is higher than it would have been due to the extent of how much he lengthened as well as the increased pressure on his joints.

[Taller]

Of course, the biggest issue with anyone lengthening the amount Apotheosis did is the range of lifelong problems you will have afterward. His potential for developing arthritis later down the line is higher than it would have been due to the extent of how much he lengthened as well as the increased pressure on his joints.

Wouldn't he have the same, or less, pressure on his joints as someone that naturally had legs that long? There are many very tall people who do not get arthritis.

Maybe his IM nails may have messed up his joints, though.

[KiloKAHN]

Wouldn't he have the same, or less, pressure on his joints as someone that naturally had legs that long? There are many very tall people who do not get arthritis.

Maybe his IM nails may have messed up his joints, though.

Dr. Rozbruch said that going beyond 8cm increases the risk of arthritis because of the change in the ratio on the lengthened bone and excess pressure on the joints. Dr. Birkholtz said that arthritis developing after lengthening is likely due to increased joint pressures and related to the extent of the lengthening.

[Taller]

Very interesting. At least, by lengthening ~10 CM on both segments, his tibia:femur ratio shouldn't be too off. Having 11 CM added only to the femur is what caused Tall on the other site some early symptoms premature arthritis.

[mediocre]

I'm not into pedantic measurements of a proportional person based on actually measuring the cm, but I just by eyeballing, he looks good.

But I think the more important issue is what Kilokahn said: "what's the long-term effect?"

[secondclasscitizen]

The long term effects are definetely the most concerning issue here. I saw another girl's picture which I have attached. She lengthened both her Tibia and Femur bones. She looks perfectly fine to me, it just appears she's one of those girls who's "all legs" which the last time I checked was a compliment!

[secondclasscitizen]

I meant the long term affects when it comes to Apotheosis for lengthening well over the recommended amount, I'm not referring to the lady in the picture---just to clarify

[Taller]

Also, while "leggy" women are generally considered to look great, it's less clear whether similarly leggy men are considered nearly as attractive by women. I think that, after lengthening too much, many men look like they're walking on stilts. Does anyone have pics of men who lengthened a lot and still look great?