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[Uppland]

Here's another proportion discussion on something I've been thinking about.

Often see pretty thin tall guys where I live and what strikes me is that they mostly seem to have very long legs. I actually think tall men are more prone to having more of their height in their legs than average or short guys. What do you think?

[Taller]

Yes, you are correct. The  former site member GrowTallOrDieTrying posted a few research papers confirming this.

[Uppland]

Yes, you are correct. The  former site member GrowTallOrDieTrying posted a few research papers confirming this.

Is there a large difference on average?

Also if you have the links to these papers please add them, I can't find anything.

[Shor7Guy]

yeah but its minor, look at sitting height percentiles, they go up less and less every 5% extra percentile you go, but it is very small difference.

[ItsMyLife]

Wow this is great, it means when you have longer legs as a result of LL people might just think you are born with it.

The ex-Premier of Singapore is 187 cm and it looks like his torso height is similar to the rest :http://superadrianme.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/NHLC-SM-Goh-Chok-Tong-posing-for-the-camera-with-the-HPM-Mall-Representatives.jpg

[Uppland]

What is the consensus on torso-to-leg ratio anyway?

I read somewhere that ones inseam should always be less than 50% of ones height.

[YellowSpike]

I read somewhere that ones inseam should always be less than 50% of ones height.

This was my experience. My inseam before LL was 30, and my total height was 65.3-65.5 inches, so it was less than 50%. Now, with a 32 inch inseam, it will probably be about 50%. The only thing I worry about is that I kinda have big hips, and so my pants always tend to make my legs look longer than they are (even before LL). So having to tuck in my shirt may be an issue.

[Shor7Guy]

Wow this is great, it means when you have longer legs as a result of LL people might just think you are born with it.

The ex-Premier of Singapore is 187 cm and it looks like his torso height is similar to the rest :http://superadrianme.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/NHLC-SM-Goh-Chok-Tong-posing-for-the-camera-with-the-HPM-Mall-Representatives.jpg

Old people lose height on their torso, not what he wouldve looked like when he was younger. As I said, just look at sitting height percentiles and all the information you need is there, id recommend not going below a black man ratio if your white.

[ItsMyLife]

Where are the sitting height percentiles?

[Taller]

Where are the sitting height percentiles?

I was spending a relaxing evening looking up articles about human proportions and came across this:

There are also biologically and statistically significant variation between human populations in body shape. Eveleth and Tanner [45,46] published data for body proportions and leg length, estimated via the sitting height ratio, from dozens of human populations, distributed across most geographic regions of the world (Figure 9). The sitting height ratio (SHR) is a commonly used measure of body proportion. Measured stature minus sitting height may also be used to estimate leg length but this measure does not standardize for total height making it difficult to compare individuals with different statures. Mean SHR for populations of adults varies from minimum values, i.e., relatively longest legs, for Australian Aborigines (SHR = 47.3 for men and 48.1 for women) to the maximum SHR values, i.e., relatively shortest legs, for Guatemala Maya men and Peruvian women (SHR = 54.6 and 55.8 ).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2872302/

My ratio at the moment is 53%. I am Caucasian, but I am now less concerned about my proportions knowing I'm on the upper end of the spectrum. I'll be 51% after LL.

[Taller]

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F1660-4601%2F7%2F3%2F1047%2Fpdf&ei=5TxSVI2LJuXUmgW4moLAAg&usg=AFQjCNESdZntA0xM4z9TWtPFt0w3L5xC4g&bvm=bv.78597519,d.dGY




Quote
on general principles that children continuously underfed would grow
into underdeveloped adults. . .with normal or nearly normal size head, moderately retarded trunk and
relatively short legs.’ Reviewing the literature available at the time (pre-1950), Leitch found that
improved nutrition during infancy and childhood did result in a greater increase in LL than in total
height or weight.

Quote
Frisancho et al. [107] emphasize the
environmental effects in a study that finds that leg length of Mexican-Americans aged 2–17 years old
is significantly associated with socioeconomic status of their families. In that study, individuals from
better-off families have significantly longer legs, but equal trunk length, when compared with boys and
girls from poorer families.


Quote
Dangour [115] reports similar findings for two tribes of Amerindian
children living in Guyana. The tribes are both of low socioeconomic status, but differ markedly in the
quality of their living conditions. Children in the tribe with better living conditions are taller than their
age-mates in the other tribe. The difference in stature is due almost entirely to differences in leg length,
as there are no significant differences in sitting height between the tribes.

Quote
The values indicate that about 60% of the increase in stature is due
to longer legs. Consequently, the taller Maya-Americans have a significantly lower average sitting height
ratio than do the Maya in Guatemala.


Quote
Overall, mean stature is greater for the centre group than the slum group, but relative leg
length as measured by the sitting height ratio does not differ.(NHANES II),

all slum girls,all slum boys,  show relatively shorter legs.



and finally. drum role.......a medical study link showing crotch at half the height for an adult human of 25 years of age [/b]as an average.

Quote
Figure 6. Changes in body proportion during human growth after birth. Ages for each
profile are, from left to right, newborn, 2 years, 6 years, 12 years, 25 years. The hair style
and shading of the cartoon silhouettes are for artistic purposes and is not meant to imply
any ethnic, eco-geographical, or “racial” phenotypic characteristics of the human species
[provided courtesy of Dr. J. V. Basmajian].




the bottom line is simple. if your short your going to have short legs, and it is probably from under nutrition. almost all of the population suffers from malnutrition. the body preserves sitting height first when you suffer from malnutrition. your sitting height remains unaffected and your leg length becomes crap. that's how it works!

as you become taller from LL you become closer to the golden ratio. this is because when you stunted your growth from under nutrition your body preserved your sitting height with the nutrients it had and took your height from your legs( this is genetic programing). it did not do this to people who were not malnutritioned and became taller compared to average.

every single person suffers from malnutrition to different degrees.

this is why people who are short can get a lot of LL compared to people who are tall(and still stay in proportion), it is because your body decided to steal your height from your legs specifically!  that's how genetics work! that's what the medical studies state.

the problem with this world is that everyone has an opinion and no one reads.

[Taller]

medical studies used and more reading.

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[Uppland]

This was my experience. My inseam before LL was 30, and my total height was 65.3-65.5 inches, so it was less than 50%. Now, with a 32 inch inseam, it will probably be about 50%. The only thing I worry about is that I kinda have big hips, and so my pants always tend to make my legs look longer than they are (even before LL). So having to tuck in my shirt may be an issue.

We need to talk more about hips, when I wear really tall lifts my hips are so high up in relation to my torso that it looks really strange when I move, even though it appears normal if I'm just standing still. This effect can be highly mitigated by increasing my shoulder width, if I wear a suit for example it becomes much less noticeable.

I think an important part of male proportion is making sure that the torso is always dominant, otherwise the legs and hips will be the most prominent part of ones body. Avoiding loose pants and building muscle helps with avoiding this.

My inseam is about 45-6% of my total height, if I add 7CM through LL it will be 47-8% and with 3CM shoes my legs will appear even longer.

Edit, Taller I really appreciate the info you quoted but could you please avoid taking up so much space. With all that text it becomes a chore to scroll through the thread.

[ForcedPuberty]

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=1110.msg19310#msg19310

I was spending a relaxing evening looking up articles about human proportions and came across this:

There are also biologically and statistically significant variation between human populations in body shape. Eveleth and Tanner [45,46] published data for body proportions and leg length, estimated via the sitting height ratio, from dozens of human populations, distributed across most geographic regions of the world (Figure 9). The sitting height ratio (SHR) is a commonly used measure of body proportion. Measured stature minus sitting height may also be used to estimate leg length but this measure does not standardize for total height making it difficult to compare individuals with different statures. Mean SHR for populations of adults varies from minimum values, i.e., relatively longest legs, for Australian Aborigines (SHR = 47.3 for men and 48.1 for women) to the maximum SHR values, i.e., relatively shortest legs, for Guatemala Maya men and Peruvian women (SHR = 54.6 and 55.8 ).

if you read the comments from the original thread and the study in detail. yes I know its long. it covers this fact.

perhaps not all factors, but temperature causes same populations at different areas of the globe to develop different size limb lengths based on temperature. the warmer climates produce longer limbs. basically a nations environment(where you are in the world geographically) is a contributor to height and limb length even with the same genetics.

[Uppland]

I've seen a lot of people with long legs where I live, and it's plenty cold let me tell you.

I know aboriginals and africans often have very long legs in relation to torso though, there is probably some truth to this study.

[ItsMyLife]

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=1110.msg19310#msg19310


if you read the comments from the original thread and the study in detail. yes I know its long. it covers this fact.

perhaps not all factors, but temperature causes same populations at different areas of the globe to develop different size limb lengths based on temperature. the warmer climates produce longer limbs. basically a nations environment(where you are in the world geographically) is a contributor to height and limb length even with the same genetics.

heard something about the small island effect too

[ItsMyLife]

Whats the definition of SHR?
Is it sitting height divided by height??

[Taller]

Whats the definition of SHR?
Is it sitting height divided by height??

Correct.

[ItsMyLife]

Correct.

Pre-op: 90/174 = 0.52
Now Im 90 cm/179 cm = 0.50
final ratio: 90 cm/182 cm = 0.49

so I guess im fine? what is the lower limit? 0.48??

[ItsMyLife]

We need to talk more about hips, when I wear really tall lifts my hips are so high up in relation to my torso that it looks really strange when I move, even though it appears normal if I'm just standing still. This effect can be highly mitigated by increasing my shoulder width, if I wear a suit for example it becomes much less noticeable.

I think an important part of male proportion is making sure that the torso is always dominant, otherwise the legs and hips will be the most prominent part of ones body. Avoiding loose pants and building muscle helps with avoiding this.

My inseam is about 45-6% of my total height, if I add 7CM through LL it will be 47-8% and with 3CM shoes my legs will appear even longer.

Edit, Taller I really appreciate the info you quoted but could you please avoid taking up so much space. With all that text it becomes a chore to scroll through the thread.

don't basketball players usually have so long legs (the nba ones).. or is it illusion?

[ItsMyLife]

on general principles that children continuously underfed would grow
into underdeveloped adults. . .with normal or nearly normal size head, moderately retarded trunk and
relatively short legs.’ Reviewing the literature available at the time (pre-1950), Leitch found that
improved nutrition during infancy and childhood did result in a greater increase in LL than in total
height or weight.

Quote
Frisancho et al. [107] emphasize the
environmental effects in a study that finds that leg length of Mexican-Americans aged 2–17 years old
is significantly associated with socioeconomic status of their families. In that study, individuals from
better-off families have significantly longer legs, but equal trunk length, when compared with boys and
girls from poorer families.


Quote
Dangour [115] reports similar findings for two tribes of Amerindian
children living in Guyana. The tribes are both of low socioeconomic status, but differ markedly in the
quality of their living conditions. Children in the tribe with better living conditions are taller than their
age-mates in the other tribe. The difference in stature is due almost entirely to differences in leg length,
as there are no significant differences in sitting height between the tribes.

Quote
The values indicate that about 60% of the increase in stature is due
to longer legs. Consequently, the taller Maya-Americans have a significantly lower average sitting height
ratio than do the Maya in Guatemala.


Quote
Overall, mean stature is greater for the centre group than the slum group, but relative leg
length as measured by the sitting height ratio does not differ.(NHANES II),

all slum girls,all slum boys,  show relatively shorter legs.



and finally. drum role.......a medical study link showing crotch at half the height for an adult human of 25 years of age [/b]as an average.

Quote
Figure 6. Changes in body proportion during human growth after birth. Ages for each
profile are, from left to right, newborn, 2 years, 6 years, 12 years, 25 years. The hair style
and shading of the cartoon silhouettes are for artistic purposes and is not meant to imply
any ethnic, eco-geographical, or “racial” phenotypic characteristics of the human species
[provided courtesy of Dr. J. V. Basmajian].




the bottom line is simple. if your short your going to have short legs, and it is probably from under nutrition. almost all of the population suffers from malnutrition. the body preserves sitting height first when you suffer from malnutrition. your sitting height remains unaffected and your leg length becomes crap. that's how it works!

as you become taller from LL you become closer to the golden ratio. this is because when you stunted your growth from under nutrition your body preserved your sitting height with the nutrients it had and took your height from your legs( this is genetic programing). it did not do this to people who were not malnutritioned and became taller compared to average.

every single person suffers from malnutrition to different degrees.

this is why people who are short can get a lot of LL compared to people who are tall(and still stay in proportion), it is because your body decided to steal your height from your legs specifically!  that's how genetics work! that's what the medical studies state.

the problem with this world is that everyone has an opinion and no one reads.

so... if your SHR is smaller (eg 0.48) you look richer and more noble? makes sense.. I have always seen some short or average height guys who have such long torso compared to legs, it looks ugly!

im 94 cm from mid-crotch to head, and so I must be 85 cm from mid-crotch to legs. don't see how another 2-3 cm would mess things much?... even if there is some minor measurement error.. so final ratio should be about: 94 cm mid-crotch to head, and 88 cm from mid-crotch to legs.. haha I guess I am Asian so I have more leeway in terms of this ratio...

anyway I do not care about proportions aside from my short arms.. and even then I am not so concerned.. its since joining this forum I I am more concerned but not to the extent I would RESEARCH about it.. haha.

[Uppland]

Pre-op: 90/174 = 0.52
Now Im 90 cm/179 cm = 0.50
final ratio: 90 cm/182 cm = 0.49

so I guess im fine? what is the lower limit? 0.48??

It's supposed to be your inseam divided by height. For example my inseam is abut 80-82CM which is 45-46% of my total height. If I add 7CM it will be between 47 and 48% of my height which is acceptable to me but barely. If your glucosamine/yoga routine works maybe I can gain an extra 2CM and be 187-88CM with a better ratio...

[ItsMyLife]

It's supposed to be your inseam divided by height. For example my inseam is abut 80-82CM which is 45-46% of my total height. If I add 7CM it will be between 47 and 48% of my height which is acceptable to me but barely. If your glucosamine/yoga routine works maybe I can gain an extra 2CM and be 187-88CM with a better ratio...

so SHR is inseam/height?

And 48 percent is the limits of attractiveness?

[Uppland]

so SHR is inseam/height?

And 48 percent is the limits of attractiveness?

The way I understood it is that you divide your inseam with your total height. I read that some doctor recommended staying below 50% of your height -that is your inseam should be less than 50% of your total height.

Obvioussly 49 and 48% will look more or less weird as well considering 50% is the alleged maximum.

[ItsMyLife]

The way I understood it is that you divide your inseam with your total height. I read that some doctor recommended staying below 50% of your height -that is your inseam should be less than 50% of your total height.

Obvioussly 49 and 48% will look more or less weird as well considering 50% is the alleged maximum.

But my inseam is only about 80-85 cm.
0.80/1.79 =45%
0.85/1.79 = 47%

So I am 45-47% if we have measurement error.
Means I have short legs???

My post surgery ratios:
About 0.88/1.82= 48.3%

Is the best ratio 50%??

[Uppland]

45% is average and 50% inseam is the absolute most you should have. As far as I understood it at least.

[ItsMyLife]

45% is average and 50% inseam is the absolute most you should have. As far as I understood it at least.

Ah. Thanks bro. So, 47-48% is considered more-or-less close to the upper limit, and very leggy?

[Uppland]

Ah. Thanks bro. So, 47-48% is considered more-or-less close to the upper limit, and very leggy?

Something like that, but obviously everyone is different.