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[Morgenst.]

What was your starting height Crimson? Some of us here are 163 man

[hamilton]

I want to make this surgery but I m afraid...
Can u advice me? Which dr can I have?
Germany dr Betz? No complications?



i lengthened over 7 cm... i lewngthened more than .66 mm a day often...


guess what... I'm in no pain, and on no painkillers... ill see dr agaon on wed, but i'm pretty sure im ok

I can already walk. etc etc

i might need to realign my left leg, which is a bit annoying, but other than that... and a very tiny amount of numbness that seems to be going away(already cant even notice it unless i consciuously think of it)... and  it has zero impact on function


Will I be 100%... well, Considering the fact that I, as well as most others, never pushed our bodies to ithe maximum anyway, I doubt it even matters

For most people, while technically they will  not be 100%, for all intents and purposes, they will not even notice theres a difference


the people that have done ll, ask them if they regret it, almost all will confidently say no...


I know I don't regret it... even with the potential of fixing one last issue... for me to regret it, I'd have to suffer loss of a limb or  motor function


Being short sucks

Dear Joubran:

who is your dr?

I would like to get more information for your dr

thanks

[IwannaBeTaller]

It's somewhat annoying that people who went to bad doctors decide to make their own experience as a general experience... Tibial lengthening is also possible to a max of 10cm (There is an australian Israeli born politician that added 8cm to her tibias in Russia... You can check it out on google and she is perfectly fine...). Complications can happen even with the best doctor.. But what's important is if the doctor can heal/repair those complications... You sweden got malallignment which wasnt taken care of (And the Ilizarov method is also done for people with misallignment (or however you spell it). You went to an awful doctor not a good one.. Same goes for Crimsontide... If this method did destroy lives and cripple everyone, it wouldnt be done in children by the tens of thousends...... Sorry

What children are you talking about? 

[TIBIKE200]

What children are you talking about? 

children with Acondroplasia and leg disperancies
 

[theuprising]

This post is for those interested in athletic recovery following limb lengthening, its been posted multiple times but finally it's on a permanent thread. It is a quote from Dr Donghoon Lee who has successfully performed hundreds of cosmetic limb lengthening operations. The quote is from Walk6 diary on old forum who had tibia lengthening with Dr Lee.

"I personally asked Dr. Lee what he thought about this (lengthening past 6 cm) and he has told me that from his experience in talking to former lengthening patients (2-3 years post recovery) those that only lengthened 5 cm recovered fully and their previous athleticism returned close to 100% to pre-LL levels. On the other hand, those who chose to lengthen between 6 and 7 centimeters recovered 100% in performing daily functions (walking, light jogging, etc), BUT only recovered about 60-70% of their pre-LL athleticism when engaging in serious sports/strenuous activities (full sprinting, jumping, basketball, rugby,etc..). Additionally, those that lengthened beyond 7 cm saw an ever greater decline in their previous athletic abilities.

In short, those who lengthen beyond 5 cm will not be able to recover all of their pre-LL athletic abilities because their muscles, nerves, tendons will be stretched well beyond their natural limits and will be permanently damaged. He used the rubber band analogy and Dr. Lee believes strongly in this. Once a rubber band (muscle) is stretched beyond its natural limit, even if its by only half a centimeter, then it will begin to tear and will forever lose its previous elasticity. The muscle's natural limit seems to be at 5 cm for many patients, though it can be higher or lower depending on the patient's initial tibia/femur length."

[TIBIKE200]

This post is for those interested in athletic recovery following limb lengthening, its been posted multiple times but finally it's on a permanent thread. It is a quote from Dr Donghoon Lee who has successfully performed hundreds of cosmetic limb lengthening operations. The quote is from Walk6 diary on old forum who had tibia lengthening with Dr Lee.

"I personally asked Dr. Lee what he thought about this (lengthening past 6 cm) and he has told me that from his experience in talking to former lengthening patients (2-3 years post recovery) those that only lengthened 5 cm recovered fully and their previous athleticism returned close to 100% to pre-LL levels. On the other hand, those who chose to lengthen between 6 and 7 centimeters recovered 100% in performing daily functions (walking, light jogging, etc), BUT only recovered about 60-70% of their pre-LL athleticism when engaging in serious sports/strenuous activities (full sprinting, jumping, basketball, rugby,etc..). Additionally, those that lengthened beyond 7 cm saw an ever greater decline in their previous athletic abilities.

In short, those who lengthen beyond 5 cm will not be able to recover all of their pre-LL athletic abilities because their muscles, nerves, tendons will be stretched well beyond their natural limits and will be permanently damaged. He used the rubber band analogy and Dr. Lee believes strongly in this. Once a rubber band (muscle) is stretched beyond its natural limit, even if its by only half a centimeter, then it will begin to tear and will forever lose its previous elasticity. The muscle's natural limit seems to be at 5 cm for many patients, though it can be higher or lower depending on the patient's initial tibia/femur length."

Tell that to Lumier and the other ex Catagni patients I have spoken to who all lengthened between 7-8cm

[crimsontide]

I have  seen zero evidence that suggests patients will recover pre surgery athletic abilities

I mean 0.

I have never seen evidence that even 1 patient  has recovered 100% of their athletic abilities as determined by actual testing

None

[theuprising]

Tell that to Lumier and the other ex Catagni patients I have spoken to who all lengthened between 7-8cm

I think I'll take the word of a top orthopedic surgeon who has seen hundreds of follow up cases over your
complete lack of evidence.

[TIBIKE200]

I think I'll take the word of a top orthopedic surgeon who has seen hundreds of follow up cases over your
complete lack of evidence.

Funny thing is that I am doing the same

[theuprising]

Tell that to Lumier and the other ex Catagni patients I have spoken to who all lengthened between 7-8cm

The only running that has been seen that was close to normal was OBG who did 6cm on femur, shyshy looked OK at 7.5cm but not really natural. Not surprising that you didn't post supporting video for your claims. That's not a personal attack as everyone on here wants to justify their preselected lengthening amount.

[meursault]

permanent effects of LL:

- sexual attractiveness
- respect from your peers
- more likelihood to climb the corporate ladder
- 'leadership skills'
- 'confidence'

[aplane]

I'd like to get an overall increase of 2", which on top of 1.5" boots and 0.7" lifts would bring me to an even 6'. Would I still have these problems if I went 1" (2.54cm exactly) on both femur and tibia? I don't want to go too far with limb lengthening, since my wingspan is around 5'9".

From what you guys are saying, I would be able to do this without much in the way of complications. Has anyone tried combining rGH and/or IGF-1 injections with limb lengthening to increase recovery/promote faster soft tissue production?

(I can't touch my toes and am not flexible, my lumbar region doesn't bend, if that makes a difference)

[asfastaslight]

Everyone here wants to LL to much and maybe your not even able to do 5cm on YOUR bone segment the longer your legs are the better it might be to do for you.  People who look great and like models have to eat diets no one wants to eat and take drugs to stay thin don't be shocked if your good looking and you have to get hooked on pain killers like most people are or on Xanax.

[CCMidwest]

Everyone here wants to LL to much and maybe your not even able to do 5cm on YOUR bone segment the longer your legs are the better it might be to do for you.  People who look great and like models have to eat diets no one wants to eat and take drugs to stay thin don't be shocked if your good looking and you have to get hooked on pain killers like most people are or on Xanax.

Lol, ok.

Thanks for sharing.

[onemorefoot]

Would you do 7 cm with fitbone, how much time I recover.

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

I wouldnt do 7cm on any segment unless you will enjoy hard recoveris additional complications(like nerve injury) and have a huge chance to walk like 60yo.

[onemorefoot]

So, Yourspaceboyfriend what amount do you  recommend with an internal nail

[LLuser1]

Some doctors advise you to do more because they dont care like Betz

[onemorefoot]

6 cm is safe?

[LLuser1]

For all cases, youll never be 100% ok
For some of them you wont come alive or wont walk anymore. There are some examples in this forum

[LLCaptain]

For all cases, youll never be 100% ok
For some of them you wont come alive or wont walk anymore. There are some examples in this forum

Why do you keep on resurrecting 1 year old topics to scare people? You haven't done LL and won't even do LL.

Anyone expecting to be 100% did not do enough research, but we all know that a high level of recovery is possible. You can go back to playing sports, hike the Alps, jump off walls, dance the night away, just your muscles won't be as explosive as they once were.

[LLCaptain]

I wouldnt do 7cm on any segment unless you will enjoy hard recoveris additional complications(like nerve injury) and have a huge chance to walk like 60yo.

Not sure if you're a doctor, but many people breeze through 8cm internal femurs and walk at 4 or 5 months

Source: me, I did LL.

[Deads]

Not sure if you're a doctor, but many people breeze through 8cm internal femurs and walk at 4 or 5 months

Source: me, I did LL.

Really dependent on the individual.. Check out Doingitforme's diary if you haven't already... 7-8cm is typically a harder recovery.

[Deads]

permanent effects of LL:

- sexual attractiveness
- respect from your peers
- more likelihood to climb the corporate ladder
- 'leadership skills'
- 'confidence'

Had to comment on this.... Hate getting sucked into this s**t haha..... Climbing the corporate ladder has nothing to do with height. Leadership skills are based on your character and the interpersonal skills you possess.. Respect from your peers; I'd say that this has a ring of truth to it, but over emphasised. Sexual attractiveness; it's one tick in the box when it comes to overall attractiveness.  Confidence; Hell yeah!

[CCMidwest]

Had to comment on this.... Hate getting sucked into this s**t haha..... Climbing the corporate ladder has nothing to do with height. Leadership skills are based on your character and the interpersonal skills you possess.. Respect from your peers; I'd say that this has a ring of truth to it, but over emphasised. Sexual attractiveness; it's one tick in the box when it comes to overall attractiveness.  Confidence; Hell yeah!

Lol, so true.

I haven't done as well as I have professionally because of height, that's for damn sure. Hell, the guy I bought out in the company I own half of is 6'4

(I know, because he's a friend of mine and likes to brag about it. He's now married to a 6'2 amazon that likes to wear 4" heels. Wanna feel short? Stand next to a woman that is 6'6 in heels...  )

[CCMidwest]

For all cases, youll never be 100% ok
For some of them you wont come alive or wont walk anymore. There are some examples in this forum

Yes, LL is so deadly that some guys don't even survive the initial consultation. 

I have a consultation in September...I hope I don't deaded.

[YourSpaceBoyfriend]

(I know, because he's a friend of mine and likes to brag about it. He's now married to a 6'2 amazon that likes to wear 4" heels. Wanna feel short? Stand next to a woman that is 6'6 in heels...  )

She probably has pretty dopeass legs lol.

[CCMidwest]

She probably has pretty dopeass legs lol.

Let's just say...at her current body weight I feel sorry for her heels.

[El Greco]

One thing that I find mind shattering on this forum(and on the old forum as well) is the kind of issues people obsess over as they are inquiring about or even doing LL. I find people obsessing over proportions(which does not even register as a concern for me.)

Even 'health' related discussions are mostly about soft tissues, while no body is addressing(or maybe even noticing) the elephant in the room. Your main concern should be: what kind of bones will I have after this is all over? and how will my LL choices affect this aspect of the outcome.

Here, I am referring mainly to osteoporosis(since bone deformities are a short term complication, and by the time lengthening and consolidation are finished a patient will have known if he\she has to deal with it or not.) I have found forums to provide little to no information on this complication. A patient's LL might be over for 15-40 years before they suffer this condition, and it just MAY BE that it was caused by LL.

Upon comparing methods(internal vs external) with this in mind, I find a strong tendency to think that externals provide better LONG TERM outcome(what a shock, right? I mean this is totally against conventional wisdom.) With internals you lose the bone marrow(and perhaps other stuff as well) of the operated bone segments. Bone marrow plays a major role in your bone remodeling

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7816067

I am guessing here(but this is an educated guess) that when this process becomes faulty one becomes likely to develop osteoporosis. Sure your body might find a way to compensate for the absence of bone marrow, when you are still young, but will this go on through your older-elderly years?

Any help in answering these questions would be appreciated(especially if it comes in the form of information extracted from medical articles.)

[Ozymandias]

One thing that I find mind shattering on this forum(and on the old forum as well) is the kind of issues people obsess over as they are inquiring about or even doing LL. I find people obsessing over proportions(which does not even register as a concern for me.)

Even 'health' related discussions are mostly about soft tissues, while no body is addressing(or maybe even noticing) the elephant in the room. Your main concern should be: what kind of bones will I have after this is all over? and how will my LL choices affect this aspect of the outcome.

Here, I am referring mainly to osteoporosis(since bone deformities are a short term complication, and by the time lengthening and consolidation are finished a patient will have known if he\she has to deal with it or not.) I have found forums to provide little to no information on this complication. A patient's LL might be over for 15-40 years before they suffer this condition, and it just MAY BE that it was caused by LL.

Upon comparing methods(internal vs external) with this in mind, I find a strong tendency to think that externals provide better LONG TERM outcome(what a shock, right? I mean this is totally against conventional wisdom.) With internals you lose the bone marrow(and perhaps other stuff as well) of the operated bone segments. Bone marrow plays a major role in your bone remodeling

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7816067

I am guessing here(but this is an educated guess) that when this process becomes faulty one becomes likely to develop osteoporosis. Sure your body might find a way to compensate for the absence of bone marrow, when you are still young, but will this go on through your older-elderly years?

Any help in answering these questions would be appreciated(especially if it comes in the form of information extracted from medical articles.)

Good post, Greco.

Yep, I'm also shocked by some people's priorities. Things like proportions or being or not able to squat 150 kg post-op should be the last concern!

As for the bone marrow thing, it is a serious question and it would be great if a doctor answers it. Too bad all the registered doctors have abandoned the forum after the continuous trollololing and false accusations.

I'm not an expert, but -as far as I know- the yellow marrow to be found inside femurs does not play the highly important roles the red marrow does.

"Yellow bone marrow is found in the hollow interior of the diaphyseal portion, or shaft of long bones. Its main function is to store adipocytes whose triglycerides can serve as a source for energy. The marrow fat is physiologically different than the subcutaneous fat in the body, and is the last fat to be lost due to starvation."

Source: http://www.conversantbio.com/blog/red-bone-marrow-vs.-yellow-bone-marrow-what-is-the-difference

There is also red marrow inside the femurs, but in adults it is mostly located at the epiphyseal ends ("heads") of the bones.



I'm not sure if this is also reamed when the nails are inserted.

I also appreciate any feedback on this topic.

[El Greco]

Hi Ozymandias,

Well I have asked one of the doctors who do internals about the effects of losing the bone marrow of the operated bone in an email, and he said that it would be better if I talk it over with him in a consultation(so no answer.)

There is also red marrow inside the femurs, but in adults it is mostly located at the epiphyseal ends ("heads") of the bones.



I'm not sure if this is also reamed when the nails are inserted.

The proximal end of the femur(this is the one highlighted in your picture) probably gets reamed as well(the drill goes right through it.)

Reaming also raises other concerns. Here it says that the surgeon would ream the canal so that it's diameter would become 1.5 mms greater than that of the nail to be inserted:

http://www.bjj.boneandjoint.org.uk/content/89-B/11/1421

I would expect that this would mean that your endosteum as well as part of the inner wall of your compact bone would have to go(the compact bone is only a few mellimeters thick)

This is a reference picture for the anatomy of a long bone:



the thinning of the bone wall as well as the loss of marrow also raises biomechanical concerns about the resilience of the resulting bone(a cylindrical object A that has some viscous material inside should be more resilient than a hollow cylindrical object B, even more so when B has a thinner wall than A)

Back to the cellular aspects of the topic:

Your body would still have red bone marrow in other bones, but could this marrow stored far away from your operated bones supply them with osteoblasts and osteoclasts in the same efficiency, as did the marrow which they lost?

It would be great if somebody gets these questions to a surgeon who does internals.

In any case... ideas?