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[Alittletooshort]

If you're 179 right now you are a total idiot if you do LL.

You will mess up your body for life. You need to get it that doing more than 5cm is catastrophic. Doing LL at your current starting height is useless and insane.

Don't do it.

No, he is 171 (or something around that height) If I remeber correcctly.
Aren´t you still thinking about femur lengthening?
How much better do you think would your recovery have been if you had only lengthened 3,5-4cm´s instead of the 7 you did?

[applesandoranges]

Sweden, my tibias measure in at 38cm long. If I keep lengthening to around 10%, so 4cm gain, would that be catastrophic? I value your opinion more since you actually did LL. Also In your opinion would I make a recovery close to 100%? do I need Achilles lengthening?

[crimsontide]

it's not the biomechanics, its the  soft tissue stretching which really messes everything up

[chineseguy]

Crimson,   if i lengthen only 5 cm,  will it be alot better?

[Sweden]

No, he is 171 (or something around that height) If I remeber correcctly.
Aren´t you still thinking about femur lengthening?
How much better do you think would your recovery have been if you had only lengthened 3,5-4cm´s instead of the 7 you did?

I'm thinking about it. Yes. But it will probably not happen in 5 years at least.

If I did 4cm instead of 7 it would be WAY better recovery. But I would feel cheated, not getting enough height ending up 176/177.

I should have stopped at a MAXIMUM of 5,5. No more.

[Sweden]

Sweden, my tibias measure in at 38cm long. If I keep lengthening to around 10%, so 4cm gain, would that be catastrophic? I value your opinion more since you actually did LL. Also In your opinion would I make a recovery close to 100%? do I need Achilles lengthening?

It won't be catastrophic doing only 4cm. You should ask yourself if you will be happy with only 4cm.

Forget 100% recovery. It will never happen.

Nobody can tell if you need Achilles lengthening. Probably not if you do only 4cm and stand up every day and do your physio.

[texasbruce]

Sweden, my tibias measure in at 38cm long. If I keep lengthening to around 10%, so 4cm gain, would that be catastrophic? I value your opinion more since you actually did LL. Also In your opinion would I make a recovery close to 100%? do I need Achilles lengthening?

Usually 15% is the cut off, although some doctor says 20% is max. 4cm is very safe.

You are unlikely needing AL as long as you stretch before and after surgery every day. Sweden had a very bad doctor, so be careful who you choose. Dr Lee in Korea said patients doing less than 5cm mostly had close to 100% recovery (and so as my mom)

[chineseguy]

sweden, how about 5 cm?

[crimsontide]

no, 5 cm is not better

i mean it might be better in terms of recovery, but is it really worth it

thats the thing about ll.. you go over 5 cm, and complications come... but is it really woryh it for 4 cm???

youre breaking your legs, and complications can still occur below 5 cm

this surgery is not worth it... the soft tissue damage is too much..

think about this... ill be better after a below knee prosthesis than I am right now

the soft tissue damage is tremendous

[applesandoranges]

It won't be catastrophic doing only 4cm. You should ask yourself if you will be happy with only 4cm.

Forget 100% recovery. It will never happen.

Nobody can tell if you need Achilles lengthening. Probably not if you do only 4cm and stand up every day and do your physio.

I would say it will make me happy, because I will be going from 5'7 to just under 5'9 which increases my height percentile drastically.

In what ways can a 100% recovery be impossible? Are there small pains and chronic discomforts? Can you expand on that? Thanks

[TIBIKE200]

It's somewhat annoying that people who went to bad doctors decide to make their own experience as a general experience... Tibial lengthening is also possible to a max of 10cm (There is an australian Israeli born politician that added 8cm to her tibias in Russia... You can check it out on google and she is perfectly fine...). Complications can happen even with the best doctor.. But what's important is if the doctor can heal/repair those complications... You sweden got malallignment which wasnt taken care of (And the Ilizarov method is also done for people with misallignment (or however you spell it). You went to an awful doctor not a good one.. Same goes for Crimsontide... If this method did destroy lives and cripple everyone, it wouldnt be done in children by the tens of thousends...... Sorry

[crimsontide]

tbike, youre living in a fantasy land if you think 10 cm  on an adult is possible without complications

tbike...  do you realize that there's a major difference between children and adults when it comes to surgery???


children can do much more than 10 cm, and come out okay... certainly not an adult in his 20's or 30's

if you disagree, fine... 

tbike,  i want to see peer reviewed papers  on the outcomes of doing 10 cm lengthening on HEALTHY ADULTS

if these papers do not exist, then I think it's fair to say that your claim is false

[TIBIKE200]

tbike, youre living in a fantasy land if you think 10 cm  on an adult is possible without complications

tbike...  do you realize that there's a major difference between children and adults when it comes to surgery???


children can do much more than 10 cm, and come out okay... certainly not an adult in his 20's or 30's

if you disagree, fine... 

tbike,  i want to see peer reviewed papers  on the outcomes of doing 10 cm lengthening on HEALTHY ADULTS

if these papers do not exist, then I think it's fair to say that your claim is false

I said 10cm on children. No I do not recommend to do 10cm on adults... I still believe that the upper safe limit is somewhere around 6-7cm (reading diaries in old forum and seeing cases of limb disperancies in adults). Btw, where did I write anything about 10cm?

[crimsontide]

my apologies then

but even 6 or 7 cm... where are the studies on healthy and normal adults? this 6-7 cm limit seems to be largely  made up, though I might be wrong

I certainly don't think 7 cm is  safe, based on my own experience, and from reading many diaries, but   that's not very scientific

I just don't think theres much evidence out there to judge the safety of ll when performed on  healthy adults

[TIBIKE200]

my apologies then

but even 6 or 7 cm... where are the studies on healthy and normal adults? this 6-7 cm limit seems to be largely  made up, though I might be wrong

I certainly don't think 7 cm is  safe, based on my own experience, and from reading many diaries, but   that's not very scientific

I just don't think theres much evidence out there to judge the safety of ll when performed on  healthy adults

I compare my case (or any CLL case for that matter) with limb disperancies in adults. These operations are usually done when the disperancy is more than 3.5cm. Catagni (which together with Cattaneo brought the Ilizarov technique to the west and thought many orthopedic surgerons) put the numbers between 5-8cm. He has a case study (which you can see on this site going to the doctors list "catagni 2015 update") of 54 cosmetic patients who did CLL of 5-8 or even 9cm with a follow-up of a few years that was published in a british orthopedics journal. He said that there were complications but that they were treated. Also, our family friend that is one of the best orthopedics surgerons in Israel (PROFESSOR Rami moshayov which is the head of the Hadassa medical center of Jerusalem for traumatic orthopedics) said that they tried to do CLL in Israel with the Ilizarov technique but that almost no body passed the psycological test so that's why it wasnt worth it. I asked him about Catagni and about the risks of this surgery... He said to me that Catagni is "The best of the best" and that I will put myself in safe hands with him but that I should prepare myself for a very hard psychological journey (And that I should think if I am capable of this kind of feat). If this surgery was as dangerous and almost a sure way to cripple myself he would have told me and my mom to not even think about it.

[crimsontide]

tbike

you brought up a very important point

Israeli dr that that didn't perform ll because  basically no one passed his pre screening

also, getting 1 leg broken and lengthened is not even close to being the same thing as having 2 broken, so limb discrepancy cases while interesting, aren't that relevant

 having 2 legs broken compared to 1 is not 2x as bad, but like 10x as bad... there's a huge difference... and it has an effect on our recovery

[TIBIKE200]

tbike

you brought up a very important point

Israeli dr that that didn't perform ll because  basically no one passed his pre screening

also, getting 1 leg broken and lengthened is not even close to being the same thing as having 2 broken, so limb discrepancy cases while interesting, aren't that relevant

 having 2 legs broken compared to 1 is not 2x as bad, but like 10x as bad... there's a huge difference... and it has an effect on our recovery

Not no one... But not enought (He said that for state hospital to have a department open for only 10-20 people a year is not worth it economically... In Israel the system works in a way that a state hospital can also do private intervention.. Which means that if I as an Israeli want to do with a private doctor a gastric sleeve surgery for example, I only pay 30% of the fee while the state health security pays the other 70%... It's a complicated system in Israel to explain here... But basically in terms of healthcare we are almost communists which is great ). Yeah... The pain is much worse and being temporarly crippled is a huge toll on the psych.... But if you prepare physically and mentally good enough and long enough for it, you can make it.

[crimsontide]

I'm gonna visit Israel in the next year

don't discount  how bad it is to have 2 broken legs... it's really bad... if I had 1 broken leg, I never would have had achilles surgery... having 2 broken legs with ballerina  makes life very very difficult

[TIBIKE200]

I'm gonna visit Israel in the next year

don't discount  how bad it is to have 2 broken legs... it's really bad... if I had 1 broken leg, I never would have had achilles surgery... having 2 broken legs with ballerina  makes life very very difficult

 I will be happy to give you a tour of Jerusalem

[crimsontide]

sweet:)))

let's do it

[Nightwish]

I'm gonna visit Israel in the next year

don't discount  how bad it is to have 2 broken legs... it's really bad... if I had 1 broken leg, I never would have had achilles surgery... having 2 broken legs with ballerina  makes life very very difficult

This is why for me I keep coming back to Dr Monegal in my mind. The idea of having two broken legs and essentially being crippled (not that one is exactly a walk in the park) genuinely freaks me the hell out.

[LLuser1]

This is why for me I keep coming back to Dr Monegal in my mind. The idea of having two broken legs and essentially being crippled (not that one is exactly a walk in the park) genuinely freaks me the hell out.

I'm not against doing one leg, you can ask other doctors to do one leg at a time, but don't go to Spain. Cooper had just one tibia done and had problems. Musicmaker had just one femur done and had problems. None of them could walk although they had done one-stage surgeries. Both crippled and needing corrections. Getting just one leg done doesn't mean you will be complication-free. Just my 2 cents, my opinion (I can give my opinion as Crinsomtide does and everybody else here).

[applesandoranges]

Out of the people who were unsatisfied in the collection of diaries, they all did 6cm and above. How much safer is just doing 3.5cm?

For those who have already done tibias, do you think you would have a better recovery and almost no complications if you stopped at 3.5cm?

Hypothetically, you would have done it with only external fixators.

[Joubran]

I want to make this surgery but I m afraid...
Can u advice me? Which dr can I have?
Germany dr Betz? No complications?



i lengthened over 7 cm... i lewngthened more than .66 mm a day often...


guess what... I'm in no pain, and on no painkillers... ill see dr agaon on wed, but i'm pretty sure im ok

I can already walk. etc etc

i might need to realign my left leg, which is a bit annoying, but other than that... and a very tiny amount of numbness that seems to be going away(already cant even notice it unless i consciuously think of it)... and  it has zero impact on function


Will I be 100%... well, Considering the fact that I, as well as most others, never pushed our bodies to ithe maximum anyway, I doubt it even matters

For most people, while technically they will  not be 100%, for all intents and purposes, they will not even notice theres a difference


the people that have done ll, ask them if they regret it, almost all will confidently say no...


I know I don't regret it... even with the potential of fixing one last issue... for me to regret it, I'd have to suffer loss of a limb or  motor function


Being short sucks
[/quote]

[Morgenst.]

What was your starting height Crimson? Some of us here are 163 man

[hamilton]

I want to make this surgery but I m afraid...
Can u advice me? Which dr can I have?
Germany dr Betz? No complications?



i lengthened over 7 cm... i lewngthened more than .66 mm a day often...


guess what... I'm in no pain, and on no painkillers... ill see dr agaon on wed, but i'm pretty sure im ok

I can already walk. etc etc

i might need to realign my left leg, which is a bit annoying, but other than that... and a very tiny amount of numbness that seems to be going away(already cant even notice it unless i consciuously think of it)... and  it has zero impact on function


Will I be 100%... well, Considering the fact that I, as well as most others, never pushed our bodies to ithe maximum anyway, I doubt it even matters

For most people, while technically they will  not be 100%, for all intents and purposes, they will not even notice theres a difference


the people that have done ll, ask them if they regret it, almost all will confidently say no...


I know I don't regret it... even with the potential of fixing one last issue... for me to regret it, I'd have to suffer loss of a limb or  motor function


Being short sucks

Dear Joubran:

who is your dr?

I would like to get more information for your dr

thanks

[IwannaBeTaller]

It's somewhat annoying that people who went to bad doctors decide to make their own experience as a general experience... Tibial lengthening is also possible to a max of 10cm (There is an australian Israeli born politician that added 8cm to her tibias in Russia... You can check it out on google and she is perfectly fine...). Complications can happen even with the best doctor.. But what's important is if the doctor can heal/repair those complications... You sweden got malallignment which wasnt taken care of (And the Ilizarov method is also done for people with misallignment (or however you spell it). You went to an awful doctor not a good one.. Same goes for Crimsontide... If this method did destroy lives and cripple everyone, it wouldnt be done in children by the tens of thousends...... Sorry

What children are you talking about? 

[TIBIKE200]

What children are you talking about? 

children with Acondroplasia and leg disperancies
 

[theuprising]

This post is for those interested in athletic recovery following limb lengthening, its been posted multiple times but finally it's on a permanent thread. It is a quote from Dr Donghoon Lee who has successfully performed hundreds of cosmetic limb lengthening operations. The quote is from Walk6 diary on old forum who had tibia lengthening with Dr Lee.

"I personally asked Dr. Lee what he thought about this (lengthening past 6 cm) and he has told me that from his experience in talking to former lengthening patients (2-3 years post recovery) those that only lengthened 5 cm recovered fully and their previous athleticism returned close to 100% to pre-LL levels. On the other hand, those who chose to lengthen between 6 and 7 centimeters recovered 100% in performing daily functions (walking, light jogging, etc), BUT only recovered about 60-70% of their pre-LL athleticism when engaging in serious sports/strenuous activities (full sprinting, jumping, basketball, rugby,etc..). Additionally, those that lengthened beyond 7 cm saw an ever greater decline in their previous athletic abilities.

In short, those who lengthen beyond 5 cm will not be able to recover all of their pre-LL athletic abilities because their muscles, nerves, tendons will be stretched well beyond their natural limits and will be permanently damaged. He used the rubber band analogy and Dr. Lee believes strongly in this. Once a rubber band (muscle) is stretched beyond its natural limit, even if its by only half a centimeter, then it will begin to tear and will forever lose its previous elasticity. The muscle's natural limit seems to be at 5 cm for many patients, though it can be higher or lower depending on the patient's initial tibia/femur length."

[TIBIKE200]

This post is for those interested in athletic recovery following limb lengthening, its been posted multiple times but finally it's on a permanent thread. It is a quote from Dr Donghoon Lee who has successfully performed hundreds of cosmetic limb lengthening operations. The quote is from Walk6 diary on old forum who had tibia lengthening with Dr Lee.

"I personally asked Dr. Lee what he thought about this (lengthening past 6 cm) and he has told me that from his experience in talking to former lengthening patients (2-3 years post recovery) those that only lengthened 5 cm recovered fully and their previous athleticism returned close to 100% to pre-LL levels. On the other hand, those who chose to lengthen between 6 and 7 centimeters recovered 100% in performing daily functions (walking, light jogging, etc), BUT only recovered about 60-70% of their pre-LL athleticism when engaging in serious sports/strenuous activities (full sprinting, jumping, basketball, rugby,etc..). Additionally, those that lengthened beyond 7 cm saw an ever greater decline in their previous athletic abilities.

In short, those who lengthen beyond 5 cm will not be able to recover all of their pre-LL athletic abilities because their muscles, nerves, tendons will be stretched well beyond their natural limits and will be permanently damaged. He used the rubber band analogy and Dr. Lee believes strongly in this. Once a rubber band (muscle) is stretched beyond its natural limit, even if its by only half a centimeter, then it will begin to tear and will forever lose its previous elasticity. The muscle's natural limit seems to be at 5 cm for many patients, though it can be higher or lower depending on the patient's initial tibia/femur length."

Tell that to Lumier and the other ex Catagni patients I have spoken to who all lengthened between 7-8cm

[crimsontide]

I have  seen zero evidence that suggests patients will recover pre surgery athletic abilities

I mean 0.

I have never seen evidence that even 1 patient  has recovered 100% of their athletic abilities as determined by actual testing

None