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0 - not distorted (*same as general population)

1 - quite distorted.

2 - more than quite distorted

3 - very distorted

4- extremely distorted

[ItsMyLife]

There are many weird posts which lead me to think that my worldview of height which is already slightly distorted, is not as distorted as the majority of the forum members.

They seem to (falsely and perhaps to too great extent) think that:
1. height is important for career success
2. height is important for girls (and I don't know why girls would come into the equation unless you are very much below average, but okay?)
3. The average height  is >2-5 cm taller than the official  statistics
4. That the younger generation is taller when it is negligibly so based on the data we now have
5. Height is causing their depression/whatever mental issue, or failure in life, when they are already of above average height
6. 6' is not tall. 5'11 is not tall, etc. And they wanna lengthen to 190 cm.
7. 190 cm is not tall enough 'for business'. (what?)

They also think too much about proportions, but that is a diferent story (yes, it shocks me)

[endomorphisme]

1) it's true, especially if you have to carry responsibilities
2)it's true, women prefer tall men over very tall men Though.
3)...
4)it's true young people are on average 2.5-3 cm above the national average.In western countries, the average height overall is 175-178 cm, depends where you live, and 178-181 cm for young people, depends where you live too
5)I don't get where you're coming from, you were already average in you country, so why did you do leg lenghtening.
Seems you have the same issue you describe.
6)And?of course 5'11 is not tall, is it sarcasm?beside none of us want to be 190 cm, except one or two persons
7)no one said that

[ItsMyLife]

My reply
1) it is not the case In asia but I read a post that says that westerners have a f-ed up conception of height and it was this concept that was brought to Asia, that now we start to have this problem (but less)
2)yes, women prefer tall over very tall. however, according to a street survey, most women interviewed said that they don't mind as long as the dude is taller and/or average height. but this was done in Singapore.
4) not true; someone posted figures up. for a few countries. the average height remained the same (at 176 cm, or 179 cm etc) for various age groups. I also did a test on a social app. The younger generation, ie, 18/19/20 are not taller than the older generation (I did data up until 25 year old). in that post, a few members , we agreed that It is fortunate that the average height is Not going up. From the figures, for guys from 18-40, the average height is the SAME. I think it is perception, you notice younger dudes more often and compare urselves to them. there are many short younger dudes these days, so say my friends. ie, we have many very tall pple and some very short. (I heard it is opposite in America, it is pretty averaged)
5)I do not have mental issues. I did this to feel better about myself and cause I do not want to wear lifts anymore. I am actually 174 cm which is 2 cm above my national average. I also feel short at times when playing basketball
6) 5'11 is tall in most or all Asian countries
7)yes, see the thread posted by kevin11 in LL discussions, if I recall his username right
[/quote]

[KrP1]

1. height is important for career success

True

2. height is important for girls (and I don't know why girls would come into the equation unless you are very much below
average, but okay?)

True, it depends in the height of the girl, but ideal height is about 1,82/185 , less tan 1,70m isnt atractive for any girl.

3. The average height  is >2-5 cm taller than the official  statistics

True, in Young people

4. That the younger generation is taller when it is negligibly so based on the data we now have

Ture, Young people is taller

5. Height is causing their depression/whatever mental issue, or failure in life, when they are already of above average height

False , if you are average , height is not  causing any failure in your life, your personality or other factors cause it.
6. 6' is not tall. 5'11 is not tall, etc. And they wanna lengthen to 190 cm.

´6` is tall , 5`11 is a Little above average in most western countrys

7. 190 cm is not tall enough 'for business'. (what?)

190 is very tall for everything unless you are a profesional basket player.

[FutureLengthener]

1. height is important for career success

Its not a requirement, but many of us have found shorter men to be taken less seriously/have to work harder

2. height is important for girls (and I don't know why girls would come into the equation unless you are very much below average, but okay?)

In most cases, it is. While most women don't require their dates to be over 6ft, most want men at least a few inches taller than them, and when you are close to the average female height you''ll find your options getting limited.

3. The average height  is >2-5 cm taller than the official  statistics

This is probably just an illusion created by those knuckleheads who exaggerate their heights

4. That the younger generation is taller when it is negligibly so based on the data we now have

You're right, younger generations are only taller if the previous ones were severely malnourished and had stunted growth. Evolution takes longer than 30 years/a generation to happen!

5. Height is causing their depression/whatever mental issue, or failure in life, when they are already of above average height

Some of them do have issues way deeper than their height...but think about a guy that's 5'10 and shorter than all his family and co-workers...is it wrong for him to feel not tall in enough? In his little world, he IS short. Height is all relative.

6. 6' is not tall. 5'11 is not tall, etc. And they wanna lengthen to 190 cm.

When members who DON'T live in Northern Europe/Netherlands say this, its sometimes because they have gotten into the "more height is always better" mode. They don't wanna stop at average, they actually want to be tall.

7. 190 cm is not tall enough 'for business'. (what?)

I'm not even going to comment on this one...

[ItsMyLife]

1. height is important for career success

Its not a requirement, but many of us have found shorter men to be taken less seriously/have to work harder

Agree;but there are many short successful people, at least in asia where there is less of a height culture (I heard)

2. height is important for girls (and I don't know why girls would come into the equation unless you are very much below average, but okay?)

In most cases, it is. While most women don't require their dates to be over 6ft, most want men at least a few inches taller than them, and when you are close to the average female height you''ll find your options getting limited.

6 feet is not required but it appears that many women want guys at six feet or above, or at least 1.80, in Asian countries. The bare minimum appears to be 170 cm in Singapore. (2 cm plus below national average).
\3. The average height  is >2-5 cm taller than the official  statistics

This is probably just an illusion created by those knuckleheads who exaggerate their heights

I think it is distorted worldview. Just take 100 people and eyeball them. Chances are, the average is the average.
4. That the younger generation is taller when it is negligibly so based on the data we now have

You're right, younger generations are only taller if the previous ones were severely malnourished and had stunted growth. Evolution takes longer than 30 years/a generation to happen!

Yes, statistics (we had a thread on this with a few PDF files) have shown that the various age groups have the SAME HEIGHT. sometimes the older age group even has a higher height. in America, average height stagnated at 176 cm and 178 cm for all americans and white americans respectively. a young American (white) is 178cm tall. An older American is, also 178 cm tall, plus or minus less than 0.5 cm. The same goes for Danish youngsters (179 cm, is the height for youngsters and middle aged and even 40+) and Norway.

In western countries that have been developed for a long time, the height of youngsters IS THE SAME as the general population (maybe, excluding the 60s guys)

In countries that are newly industrialised ie, developed a lot in recent years, perhaps Singapore,, Korea, etc, the average heigt did increase, but it increased only a few centimetres over 10-20 years.
5. Height is causing their depression/whatever mental issue, or failure in life, when they are already of above average height

Some of them do have issues way deeper than their height...but think about a guy that's 5'10 and shorter than all his family and co-workers...is it wrong for him to feel not tall in enough? In his little world, he IS short. Height is all relative.

I agree. my brother is 180cm and it feels so weird. I feel short even though I was above average. I always feel short in my university. my perception of average is 175 -176 cm but the national figure is 172 cm.But I don't buy the "youngsters are taller" story.

6. 6' is not tall. 5'11 is not tall, etc. And they wanna lengthen to 190 cm.

When members who DON'T live in Northern Europe/Netherlands say this, its sometimes because they have gotten into the "more height is always better" mode. They don't wanna stop at average, they actually want to be tall.

more height is not actually better. I think past 6 feet , in most countries, the returns are negligible (or even negative returns)

7. 190 cm is not tall enough 'for business'. (what?)

I'm not even going to comment on this one...

this was posted in the forum, he wanted to be 195 cm
[/quote]

[ItsMyLife]

4. That the younger generation is taller when it is negligibly so based on the data we now have

Ture, Young people is taller

Its not, surprisingly to me as well. In USA, Norway and Danish males, at least.


And no for the second time I repeating, I do not have mental issues

[Shor7Guy]

I dont think we over rate it, I think the general population under rate it, to be easier on peoples ego.

[Puertoricanwasp123]

Some members have opinions so distorted that I suggest they go seek mental help but I won't point fingers at user names ( limb shortening crowd have distorted views as well as some tall dudes in here that don't currently live in Netherlands). In my case I don't know because there's no height average in my country so all the data I have is from eyeballing people and labeling them with guessed heights.

[ItsMyLife]

I did not see any psychologist or anything though at points I thought it might be good to see one, or a counsellor at least.
But I realised my view is distorted by myself because:
1.  the average height for my country is really 172.4. even a 2009 hospital study on 18 year olds says that and measures it to be 172+ cm. the average height did increase from 169 cm, about 10-20 years ago. But it is pretty stagnant. This is confirmed in Korea with average military enlistee height being 173 and Koreans seem so much taller than singaporeans so it seems logical that Singapore's average is 172+. I thought the average is 175-176 at least. And so do many people here in my country.  I don't know what to believe, honestly.
2. I feel the younger generation is taller, but the above point invalidates my perception. (Unless people grew taller in the last 5 years which is absurd since our nutritional status has been good since 1990s since we are a developed nation)
3. I went on dating apps and averaged guys heights. The average 18 year old, 19 year old, 20 year old, 21 year old, 22 year old were all 172 cm+ tall. 15th percentile was 178. Bu when I saw the profiles I just saw SO MANY guys taller than me, I thought that (when I saw the profiles) that the average was about 174+ at least. But with my Excel spreadsheet, it is MUCH lower. At 172 cm. All this is psychological perception. We magnify the negatives. There ARE so many short people out there and we just do not pay attention to them.  Hence we think the average height is taller.
4. Univeristy where I go to, the average seems even higher at 176cm-ish. 180+ cm guys are so common. I don't know if this is because uni students are from richer families with better nutrition. This I cannot confirm.
I hope this post would help someone else rationalise all this.

From all this I realised I have a slightly distorted PERCEPTION of AVERAGE height or the INCIDENCE/how common 180cm+ people are in my country.

Regarding opportunities for the short, it has always not been a problem in Singapore. I don't know the case if you are very short, but 5 cm below average height is pretty fine.

[programdude]

I think the members get a bit demented when they get caught up in things like fighting ability etc.

I think those who get obsess with being 6 2 are a bit out of touch, or simply haven't had one operation to see life at 5 10- 5 11 is not so bad.

I think those who are around or above 5 7 and blame failures on women are setting themselves up for MAJOR disappointment when they realize height is not the end all be all. If you are 5 6 or lower I do think there will be a tangible difference in this field, but the expectation that women will start throwing themselves at you is deluded.

I do agree height helps for business and confidence, but I don't think it would outweigh the costs of going to one of the top dr.'s as an investment.

As far as mental issues like depression, I think other than those well below average, most who are really distraught over it have some kind of problem in the first place that develops into height neurosis, which can make it feel like it is the source for everything. For example, I had no problems in my life and yet became obsessed with those 3.25 inches completely and almost out of nowhere. For others it is gradual, but I think most are similar who are above 5 8.

A big part of if height is a root for depression etc. in someones life is likely to be how early they realized they were short, and/or had an instance where their height held them back or humiliated them. For me it was only when I was 22/23 I even realized I was below average or considered it an issue. If I had when I was much younger, I imagine my life would have been a lot worse.

[ItsMyLife]

Hi program, please see my thoughts In bold:

I think the members get a bit demented when they get caught up in things like fighting ability etc.

I think those who get obsess with being 6 2 are a bit out of touch, or simply haven't had one operation to see life at 5 10- 5 11 is not so bad.
I obsess with getting to 6' or close is that bad?

I think those who are around or above 5 7 and blame failures on women are setting themselves up for MAJOR disappointment when they realize height is not the end all be all. If you are 5 6 or lower I do think there will be a tangible difference in this field, but the expectation that women will start throwing themselves at you is deluded.

The thing is I am 180 cm with lifts and I hate taking them off when I invite girls over to my place, or I go to their place. So even though I was about 5'8, it was so troublesome to "hide" my insoles by having thick socks and putting them in my shoes.

I do agree height helps for business and confidence, but I don't think it would outweigh the costs of going to one of the top dr.'s as an investment.

I would think that its effect is negligible in Singapore. BUt since everyone thnks so, I suppose there must be at least some measurable difference and so I am glad I did this

As far as mental issues like depression, I think other than those well below average, most who are really distraught over it have some kind of problem in the first place that develops into height neurosis, which can make it feel like it is the source for everything. For example, I had no problems in my life and yet became obsessed with those 3.25 inches completely and almost out of nowhere. For others it is gradual, but I think most are similar who are above 5 8.

A big part of if height is a root for depression etc. in someones life is likely to be how early they realized they were short, and/or had an instance where their height held them back or humiliated them. For me it was only when I was 22/23 I even realized I was below average or considered it an issue. If I had when I was much younger, I imagine my life would have been a lot worse.

A common misunderstanding is depression is as a result of circumstances. that's false. you can be disabled, and NOT depressed, for instance. it is all the chemicals in the mind; dopamine, serotonin, etc. But yeah I wanted to be tall since young....... It dragged on and on to 25 and I thought since YOLO, I shd do it.

[Puertoricanwasp123]

but the expectation that women will start throwing themselves at you is deluded.

When I was a young kid the girls flirted with me which stopped exactly when the rivals catch up and get ahead in height and I wasn't even that cute in my late childhood so good height is that good at any age you happen to be taller than average and in P.R. women do flirt so you know if you can make a move on them. You don't get that at a short height.

[ItsMyLife]

When I was a young kid the girls flirted with me which stopped exactly when the rivals catch up and get ahead in height and I wasn't even that cute in my late childhood so good height is that good at any age you happen to be taller than average and in P.R. women do flirt so you know if you can make a move on them. You don't get that at a short height.

I do know women do prefer tall guys but not too tall; but is it that bad?? I put my height as 183 cm on my profile. it used to be 178-ish. There's no difference! But I do get complimented once in  awhile for my height.

[Puertoricanwasp123]

I do know women do prefer tall guys but not too tall; but is it that bad?? I put my height as 183 cm on my profile. it used to be 178-ish. There's no difference! But I do get complimented once in  awhile for my height.

There's no difference because most of the women saw you updated your height, only the new ones will not know.

[ItsMyLife]

There's no difference because most of the women saw you updated your height, only the new ones will not know.

I mean the number of new females talking to me, or are interested when I talk to them, is the same, as before I changed my height.

Maybe this is Asia. Where height is not that important (ie, 178 vs 183), The other reason is of course our average is 172 cm so 178 cm is already tall, and 183 is probably close to too tall

[Puertoricanwasp123]

I mean the number of new females talking to me, or are interested when I talk to them, is the same, as before I changed my height.

Maybe this is Asia. Where height is not that important (ie, 178 vs 183), The other reason is of course our average is 172 cm so 178 cm is already tall, and 183 is probably close to too tall

I heard Asian women in general are not that greedy, they can satisfy their needs with any man that just towers them with no exact height requirements, not like western women who say it has to be x height and nothing else.

[programdude]

Peurtorican- From my experiences it really isn't true that height matters so much that you are discredited. at least at 5 8 I got a lot more girls than most guys who were taller than me.

Itsmylife- It depends. If 6 ft is an unrealistic goal then yes. I want 6 foot as well, but part of LL is accepting your limitations.

Wearing insoles with women does seem awkward. The important thing is becoming comfortable in your own skin and not needing them. I think in many ways the process of LL is actually healthier than the somewhat demented mindset of needing to always have thing stuffed in your shoes to be happy with yourself, and constantly worried about them coming off.

[Moubgf]

The average height these days is 5'11-6'3. Thank GMO food for that.

[Puertoricanwasp123]

The average height these days is 5'11-6'3. Thank GMO food for that.

GMO makes your life bad and it doesn't guarantee you growth so in my case I wish I had never eaten a single bit of GMO chances are I would still be the same height and live longer.

[ItsMyLife]

Peurtorican- From my experiences it really isn't true that height matters so much that you are discredited. at least at 5 8 I got a lot more girls than most guys who were taller than me.

Itsmylife- It depends. If 6 ft is an unrealistic goal then yes. I want 6 foot as well, but part of LL is accepting your limitations.

Wearing insoles with women does seem awkward. The important thing is becoming comfortable in your own skin and not needing them. I think in many ways the process of LL is actually healthier than the somewhat demented mindset of needing to always have thing stuffed in your shoes to be happy with yourself, and constantly worried about them coming off.

I totally agree. I hated myself cause I was a lie, at least with the insoles in..... I felt so insecure. It was so bad. Perhaps if I did not wear insoles I would have come to term with my height. So insoles are.. kinda evil? But at 6 feet, even if I wore small insoles, I will still feel confident about my height as statistically I am tall in Asia.

[Moubgf]

GMO makes your life bad and it doesn't guarantee you growth so in my case I wish I had never eaten a single bit of GMO chances are I would still be the same height and live longer.

Nopp, it contains human growth hormone. look it up before you speak you idiot.

[Moubgf]

I totally agree. I hated myself cause I was a lie, at least with the insoles in..... I felt so insecure. It was so bad. Perhaps if I did not wear insoles I would have come to term with my height. So insoles are.. kinda evil? But at 6 feet, even if I wore small insoles, I will still feel confident about my height as statistically I am tall in Asia.

You where already average at 5'8 in asia, now your 6 foot. and your asian. lol must look odd

[ItsMyLife]

You where already average at 5'8 in asia, now your 6 foot. and your asian. lol must look odd

You have bad grammar which is why I think you're on drugs? Sometimes your sentences are totally illogical. But I will explain.

There are many six foot youngsters here.. I wish I can put the figure at 10%. But it is probably 15-20% of young people.

I live in Singapore, not China, or India where everyone is shorter due to malnutrition.
Here, 180 cm+ is a common sight (maybe 1.5 to 2 out of 10 in town) for young people below 30.
178 cm is even more common in youngsters(3 or 4 out of 10).
Basically, I suspect that, in Singapore, the short guys are pulling the average down.
I don't think 6 feet is odd at all in Singapore. There are in fact quite a few (quite common) 6'1 and 6'2 in university.

[YellowSpike]

I think the members get a bit demented when they get caught up in things like fighting ability etc.

I think those who get obsess with being 6 2 are a bit out of touch, or simply haven't had one operation to see life at 5 10- 5 11 is not so bad.

I think those who are around or above 5 7 and blame failures on women are setting themselves up for MAJOR disappointment when they realize height is not the end all be all. If you are 5 6 or lower I do think there will be a tangible difference in this field, but the expectation that women will start throwing themselves at you is deluded.

I do agree height helps for business and confidence, but I don't think it would outweigh the costs of going to one of the top dr.'s as an investment.

This is spot on.

I agree that you can experience height disphoria at any height. But it's really under around 5'7" where it's a tangible issue, and not just one in your head. As a guy who used to be under 5'6" I can tell you this much is true. I've never heard of 5'7" and up guys get called short. 5'8" is safer, but to me, 5'7" isn't too bad and I feel like guys around that height (as long as they're not too stocky) just manage to dodge most of the heightism that's out there. If I were 5'7", I would've seriously questioned doing LL. 5'7" is still taller than most women, even if barely.

[Puertoricanwasp123]

Nopp, it contains human growth hormone. look it up before you speak you idiot.

shows your lack of intelligence when you call someone an idiot without any evidence to back up your claim, you can't just order people to go read stuff you haven't read yourself, there's billions of short people that eat GMO modified foods and they are below average.

[ItsMyLife]

shows your lack of intelligence when you call someone an idiot without any evidence to back up your claim, you can't just order people to go read stuff you haven't read yourself, there's billions of short people that eat GMO modified foods and they are below average.

nonsense. why would only GM foods have human growth hormones?
I mean even normal chicken, can be injected with growth hormones to make them grow faster? and given how exorbitant the price is, I don't think they even use human-compatible hormones
and I don't see how GM-modified vegetables can make hormones

[Puertoricanwasp123]

nonsense. why would only GM foods have human growth hormones?
I mean even normal chicken, can be injected with growth hormones to make them grow faster? and given how exorbitant the price is, I don't think they even use human-compatible hormones
and I don't see how GM-modified vegetables can make hormones

Soy apparently makes hormones because one of my acquaintances is not allowed to drink cow milk or eat soy by her Doctor.

[ForcedPuberty]

soy will turn you gay. it doesn't actually make hormones technically. cant elaborate it will go off topic.

[ForcedPuberty]

I don't see how GM-modified vegetables can make hormones

they don't make hormones (the vegetables), but your statement is wrong. they can make anything.

they have corn which is genetically modified to grow the aids virus, and if you eat it you get aids. basically the sky is the limit.

side note: the guy who runs this program for corn with the aids virus also runs a massive charity to give "corn" to Africans.

yep hes a eugenicists also.

sad world.

[Puertoricanwasp123]

soy will turn you gay. it doesn't actually make hormones technically. cant elaborate it will go off topic.

Send me a note I am interested in what you have to say.