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[Body Builder]

I am sure that your self-proclaimed "wideness" will help you with the t-rex looking arms, just keep telling yourself that.

Also don't forget (if you don't mind) to post a picture of yourself after your second surgery. It will be enough for most people to not even think about doing 2 segments without AL.

The 99% of people who did LL haven't done AL.
And from that 1% the 90% haven't done it externally.
So I will post a pic after my second LL and I will look good as most of people who did LL without AL.
Till then show us your arms and the scars they have and we could talk better about AL.

Datum, especially about AL I am very strong minded.
It is a silly procedure for nothing. Even clavicle lengthening, which of course is a joke too, has more logic than AL.
So yes I am completely against that surgery and I haven't seen any sane person ever do it, especially with externals.

[Overdozer]

The 99% of people who did LL haven't done AL.
And from that 1% the 90% haven't done it externally.
So I will post a pic after my second LL and I will look good as most of people who did LL without AL.
Till then show us your arms and the scars they have and we could talk better about AL.

Datum, especially about AL I am very strong minded.
It is a silly procedure for nothing. Even clavicle lengthening, which of course is a joke too, has more logic than AL.
So yes I am completely against that surgery and I haven't seen any sane person ever do it, especially with externals.

99% of people who do LL only do 1 (one) segment. That allows them to stay within acceptable arm span to height ratio or ape index (no less than -5 cm or -2 inches).

So I will post a pic after my second LL and I will look good as most of people who did LL without AL.

Again, most people only lengthen one leg segment. And I am sure you will look good. That's a good autogenic training technique.

[Alu]

Dozer didn't you at one point intent to post pics when you've recovered? Wondering if you're still willing to do so.

[The Dreamer]

This thread is complete bullcrap and a scam. Anyone who belive this dude. Or that other dude for the matter. Seriously is lacking in critical thinking.

Not a SINGLE PICTURE HAS BEEN POSTED ON HIS BODY&PROPORTIONS&FRAME& nothing zip nada..nothing when he was lengthening and seriously one of the few that does external lengthening in femurs and yet no Pictures. nah dont belive that for one second. not to mention his tibia lengthening.


X-RAYS does not Count, You can easily fake those or find fake online.And if you are even a doctor who want cash you can get some from the stocks you got Mountains off in your office computer.

PICS!!! or didnt happen.

No exuses no nothing. Show us picks right now of your body or this thread is a hazard danger and could potentially lead to FATAL injuries who whoever was gullible to belive this nonsense. I might be a jerk or whatever but im seriously sick of these weird threads with no pics, they can give you alot of aloof answers like "yeh whatever it was pain and the usual that we see in everythread" yet i cant post a Picture.  -  GG

I definitely agree with you.No pics(excluding the Xrays)=no proofs
A lot of users asked him for pics and he promised that he would update but he didn't.Very strange

[Overdozer]

I definitely agree with you.No pics(excluding the Xrays)=no proofs
A lot of users asked him for pics and he promised that he would update but he didn't.Very strange

Are you blind and stupid? First of all I posted pics of the frames, the last page for example, that's excluding the xrays, which I have plenty. Second, I don't see how I'm entitled to prove anything to you - if you think I am, then you can go fk yourself. And third, as I said before, I won't be posting any pictures that compromise my privacy, that includes scar pictures, as they can be identified by placement and just, and full body pictures, no matter if you blur your face or not.

Now you are free to do the surgery yourself, create a diary and share videos of you playing with yourself in the bathroom, if the word "privacy" doesn't mean anything to you. I will pass on that one.

[GeTs]

I definitely agree with you.No pics(excluding the Xrays)=no proofs
A lot of users asked him for pics and he promised that he would update but he didn't.Very strange

I think he's right on not putting in pictures. Take a look at google search, most of these pictures are from diaries and they tend to get views very fast. Especially someone that did 14cm, both segments and arm lengthening as well




He posted x rays of tibia lengthening, femur lengthening and arm lengthening. I mean I don't have doubts in my mind he did the operation and as he described it

To each their own I guess

[liltunechi]

Hey overdozer
I have a question if you dont mind answering

I am looking to lengthen around 4cm next year with either mitkovic or a russian doc
Since my arms are already pretty short, i want to do arm lengthening too.. around 3-3.5 cm.

I want to ask, when do you recommend i undergo the ATL? once i have fully recovered with my tibias or can i lengthen during leg leghtening too? Also, could you please let me know the timeframe of when u lengthen ur legs then arms.

Thank you!

[IwannaBeTaller]

5,000 Euros for three entire LL surgeries, that's very hard to believe. Living standards in Russia aren't so cheap to warrant such a low doctor's salary. No doctor would work on such a low wage.

[Overdozer]

Hey overdozer
I have a question if you dont mind answering

I am looking to lengthen around 4cm next year with either mitkovic or a russian doc
Since my arms are already pretty short, i want to do arm lengthening too.. around 3-3.5 cm.

I want to ask, when do you recommend i undergo the ATL? once i have fully recovered with my tibias or can i lengthen during leg leghtening too? Also, could you please let me know the timeframe of when u lengthen ur legs then arms.

Thank you!

You can't really lengthen your arms and legs at the same time. You need your arms when lengthening legs. If I recall, I did AL one year after I had last external frame removed, but I could have done it earlier, I just had some things to do.

You can finish lengthening your legs, remove the external frames, then do AL in 1-2 months. That is fine I believe.

Do review if you actually need AL though, as LL alone is quite tough.

[Overdozer]

5,000 Euros for three entire LL surgeries, that's very hard to believe. Living standards in Russia aren't so cheap to warrant such a low doctor's salary. No doctor would work on such a low wage.

5000 EUR or 340 000 rubles for just the surgeries without other costs included. Everything included was a little less than 1 000 000 rubles, and I'm a local.

Don't forget the 2014 ruble crash. It dropped half in value. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_financial_crisis_(2014%E2%80%932017)

[liltunechi]

Thanks for the response! Having done my mockups, after 4cm of leghtening i shouldnt look TOO BAD. however, since i will be wearing lifts (that give 1.5inches in height) it may look bad then. I have two threada posted about my proportions in the 'proportions' section, if u dont mind l would be happy to hear your thoughts.

Whats strange however is that, when i got in my tip toes and gain the exact amount I would post surgery and wearing lifts, i look pretty normal in the mirror. In pictures however it looks off 

[Overdozer]

Thanks for the response! Having done my mockups, after 4cm of leghtening i shouldnt look TOO BAD. however, since i will be wearing lifts (that give 1.5inches in height) it may look bad then. I have two threada posted about my proportions in the 'proportions' section, if u dont mind l would be happy to hear your thoughts.

That's a humble lengthening amount, I don't think you need AL.

[GeTs]

How was the experience with external femurs? How much did you lengthen with externals on femurs? At what point did you encounter problems? How painful was it compared to tibias?

[Overdozer]

How was the experience with external femurs? How much did you lengthen with externals on femurs? At what point did you encounter problems? How painful was it compared to tibias?

Externals femurs are rough.

The main problem is discomfort from the large external frame around your thighs that goes up your ass (almost). I did cross-lengthening so I only had one of these at a time and that's the only reason for x-lengthening that they also use on dwarf patients in Kurgan. Also, because of the pins going through your soft tissues, you will instantly after the surgery develop knee bending issues. I don't think I was able to bend my knees more than 40 degrees during lengthening.

The second problem is the pain, which in my case was mainly caused by a high distraction rate of 1.5-1.75 mm a day. I had to lengthen at that rate to prevent premature consolidation. Tibias in my experience are painless to lengthen, but that's just my experience.

[liltunechi]

Since I am looking to do 4cm I should be fully recovered within around 7 months. I will need to see when to start arm lengthening.

Overdozer, have you seen other patients in Russia get arm lenghtening surgery? Is it common there?

Also are you worried about any sort of permanent damage? Someone people say humerus  lengthening is the most dangerous but then some say its the easiest. Just wanna know your thougjts since im sure you researched it properly before getting it.

Also, once fully recovered, is our arm usage the same as before? E.g punching, taking punches, driving etc.

[Overdozer]

Since I am looking to do 4cm I should be fully recovered within around 7 months. I will need to see when to start arm lengthening.

Overdozer, have you seen other patients in Russia get arm lenghtening surgery? Is it common there?

Also are you worried about any sort of permanent damage? Someone people say humerus  lengthening is the most dangerous but then some say its the easiest. Just wanna know your thougjts since im sure you researched it properly before getting it.

Also, once fully recovered, is our arm usage the same as before? E.g punching, taking punches, driving etc.

Arm lengthening for cosmetic purposes is not common, no.

Arm (or hand? I think it's hand - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5367587/ ) paralysis is a possible complication during the surgery if you hit one of those nerves

If the surgery went fine you have nothing to worry about.


Can't comment on recovery yet, I still have frames on.

[liltunechi]

Arm lengthening for cosmetic purposes is not common, no.

Arm (or hand? I think it's hand - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5367587/ ) paralysis is a possible complication during the surgery if you hit one of those nerves

If the surgery went fine you have nothing to worry about.


Can't comment on recovery yet, I still have frames on.

Hmm i see. When i said common, i pretty much meant to ask 'have u seen other patients getting arm lengthening done during ur stay?'  If you could answer that i'd be greatful.

In terms of paralysis, what did your dr say about the possibility of it?  With every surgery there is a  possibility of extreme conplications, but if u have a good dr you should be fine. Pretty much what im trying to ask, are the chances of paralysis really small?

[Overdozer]

Hmm i see. When i said common, i pretty much meant to ask 'have u seen other patients getting arm lengthening done during ur stay?'  If you could answer that i'd be greatful.

No.

In terms of paralysis, what did your dr say about the possibility of it?  With every surgery there is a  possibility of extreme conplications, but if u have a good dr you should be fine. Pretty much what im trying to ask, are the chances of paralysis really small?

He warned me that hand paralysis is a possible and serious complication of AL. I didn't ask on the chances, I did assume they are low enough if he agreed to perform it on me.

[FDR101]

Hey Overdozer,

Hope your recovery is proceeding well.

Do you by any chance know if new soft tissue is created during LL around the bone in question, or is it simply stretched on a permanent basis?

If it is the latter, will you not suffer some kind of permanent pain/complications due to soft tissue with so much lengthening?

[Overdozer]

Do you by any chance know if new soft tissue is created during LL around the bone in question, or is it simply stretched on a permanent basis?

For all I know
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9167625

Studies of limb lengthening have demonstrated successful bone formation in the distraction gap. Failure of the muscle units to lengthen leads to many complications that significantly limit the success of this approach; it is, therefore, of paramount importance to characterize the behavior of the muscle during limb lengthening. In this study, tibiae of adult rabbits were lengthened for 10 days at a rate of 1 mm/day. The proliferative ability of the lengthened muscle was characterized using bromodeoxyuridine, a thymidine analogue that is incorporated during cell division, and desmin, a muscle-specific marker. We observed a large number of proliferating cells, specifically in the lengthened muscle, that were co-localized with many desmin-positive cells. The presence of bromodeoxyuridine nuclei inside desmin-positive muscle fibers suggests that limb lengthening promotes muscle growth by triggering myoblast proliferation and fusion into the lengthened muscle. Our findings are consistent with those of other studies in the reviewed literature that also suggest that limb lengthening promotes muscle growth.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10672601

Experimental animal studies and clinical investigations show three processes going on during extremity lengthening with the Ilizarov-method. At first degenerative changes including cell necroses in the muscles, the nerves and the tendons [corrected] occur as well as denervation of muscle fibers resulting in neurogenous muscle atrophies. These alterations are followed by reperative and regenerative processes as well as the reinnervation of the denervated muscle fibers. Secondly histoneogenesis occur which leads to a high increase of tissue-specific cells and a growth of the muscles, tendons and vessels. Therefore tensile-stress is an important factor of tissue growth. Thirdly adaptive processes proceed during leg lengthening. For example the high biosynthetic activity during tissue growth seems to indicate an increase of vasa vasorum.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23049683

Skeletal muscle responds to passive overstretch through sarcomerogenesis, the creation and serial deposition of new sarcomere units. Sarcomerogenesis is critical to muscle function: It gradually re-positions the muscle back into its optimal operating regime. Animal models of immobilization, limb lengthening, and tendon transfer have provided significant insight into muscle adaptation in vivo. Yet, to date, there is no mathematical model that allows us to predict how skeletal muscle adapts to mechanical stretch in silico. Here we propose a novel mechanistic model for chronic longitudinal muscle growth in response to passive mechanical stretch. We characterize growth through a single scalar-valued internal variable, the serial sarcomere number. Sarcomerogenesis, the evolution of this variable, is driven by the elastic mechanical stretch. To analyze realistic three-dimensional muscle geometries, we embed our model into a nonlinear finite element framework. In a chronic limb lengthening study with a muscle stretch of 1.14, the model predicts an acute sarcomere lengthening from 3.09[Formula: see text]m to 3.51[Formula: see text]m, and a chronic gradual return to the initial sarcomere length within two weeks. Compared to the experiment, the acute model error was 0.00% by design of the model; the chronic model error was 2.13%, which lies within the rage of the experimental standard deviation. Our model explains, from a mechanistic point of view, why gradual multi-step muscle lengthening is less invasive than single-step lengthening. It also explains regional variations in sarcomere length, shorter close to and longer away from the muscle-tendon interface. Once calibrated with a richer data set, our model may help surgeons to prevent muscle overstretch and make informed decisions about optimal stretch increments, stretch timing, and stretch amplitudes. We anticipate our study to open new avenues in orthopedic and reconstructive surgery and enhance treatment for patients with ill proportioned limbs, tendon lengthening, tendon transfer, tendon tear, and chronically retracted muscles.

You can use google scholar to find more articles.

[IwannaBeTaller]

LL promotes soft tissue growth in which completely new cells of muscle, etc. are formed. It's not only stretched tissue. However, the newly created tissue is still inferior to soft tissue naturally grown during puberty.

[TIBIKE200]

LL promotes soft tissue growth in which completely new cells of muscle, etc. are formed. It's not only stretched tissue. However, the newly created tissue is still inferior to soft tissue naturally grown during puberty.

are you sure about that? Where did you read this?

[liltunechi]

No.
He warned me that hand paralysis is a possible and serious complication of AL. I didn't ask on the chances, I did assume they are low enough if he agreed to perform it on me.

Thanks so much for the response man. Is it possible the next time you ask him, how common it is?

[IwannaBeTaller]

are you sure about that? Where did you read this?

There was this study where animals' limbs where lengthened and they showed microscopic x-rays of the muscle tissue and you could see the damage.

[Overdozer]

Getting x-rays tomorrow, hopefully regenerate is formed enough to remove the god damn things. Tired as fk from doing nothing.

Meanwhile I'm preparing for hard recovery
Original Sustanon 250 + Cabergoline for PCT.

[Overdozer]

Back from Dr. Kulesh. Left arm is consolidated, external to be removed within next week after bone stability test. Right one will need to wait about a month. I'll upload xrays once I receive them

For anyone wondering about "arm proportions" or humerus to forearm ratio - here is how it looks.
https://imgur.com/yhH7IQh

I do believe I've made the right decision to lengthen 3.5 cm on each humerus - while the proportions are still altered and it is noticeable, it's not necessary bad looking, well not for me at least. At the same time I gained 7 cm in arm span, compensating one stage of lengthening (7-7).

[Bleda]

Really impressive what you've achieved, mate. You must have an iron will to get through all of that. Well done. Must have been extra hard doing all that external lengthening lugging around those giant balls too. 

For what it's worth I think your arms look fine, although I guess the frames could throw off the perception a little, but I think it all easily looks in the realm of normal.

If you wouldn't mind, could you tell me the length of your radius/ulna? I'm currently doing AL and almost a 3cm and was thinking I might have to stop it there. It seems we had the same starting armspan so I was just curious. It is a little hard for me to tell right now since my arm and shoulder muscles have pretty much dissolved.

Well done again.

[Overdozer]

If you wouldn't mind, could you tell me the length of your radius/ulna? I'm currently doing AL and almost a 3cm and was thinking I might have to stop it there. It seems we had the same starting armspan so I was just curious. It is a little hard for me to tell right now since my arm and shoulder muscles have pretty much dissolved.

Well done again.

I didn't have my radius/ulna measured radiographically and trying to measure it myself wouldn't be reliable. It was pretty standard I'd say. Before 2.5 cm lengthened I didn't notice any shift in proportions, 3 was slightly noticeable and at 3.5 I decided to call it a day, to be safe.

Got the xrays btw
https://imgur.com/a/VvDFD

[ShortArm]

I am not a doc, but seems like your arms are healing about fast to average speed. So 4 months post op and 4weeks of lenghtening, right? To be honest you are pretty mutch on my target 3-4cm lenghtening on humerus.

Its really nice to read from people go trough this type of lenghtening, thanks for that!

Wish you all the best!

[Overdozer]

I am not a doc, but seems like your arms are healing about fast to average speed. So 4 months post op and 4weeks of lenghtening, right? To be honest you are pretty mutch on my target 3-4cm lenghtening on humerus.

Its really nice to read from people go trough this type of lenghtening, thanks for that!

Wish you all the best!

Yes it's pretty average healing speed for the (external) humerus. 34-35 days per cm lengthened post op.

Good luck with your lengthening 

[ShortArm]

Yes it's pretty average healing speed for the (external) humerus. 34-35 days per cm lengthened post op.

Good luck with your lengthening 

Thanks.