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[ItsMyLife]

First, I have consulted Bagirov (whom I hear from Russians is the BEST in Russia). He is so confident, together with Dr Fahri his assistant, that 7-8 cms will be good for me. The danger starts at 8 cm+.

Second, my Singapore orthopaedic surgeon did not really express shock or discourage me. He says to do the lengthening at a slow pace. Only worry is the common peroneal nerve. As we know SG has one of the highest standards of living and healthcare in Asia, on par or better than Japan and Korea.
I must say that the standard of care in a SG hospital was definitely better than Russia (and oh so more advanced, since it was a tertiary hospital I went to). Very impressed. When I went to dress my wounds, a few days later, my infections resolved. I will ask the SG surgeon more about athletic abilities and his opinion. He also trained under the disciple of ilizarov.

Third, according to the Chinese doctors, 15-20% is OK. 20% of 36 cm would be 7.2 cm. I other words, the upper limit for my lengthening is 7.2 cm. But upper limits are not set in stone. If I push this figure to 22%, the answer is 8 cm. So 7-8 cm It will be.

Fourth, Dr bagirov and his assistant surgeon both saw my condition in person. They know best. They did the MRI and saw the images. They know better than the average ballpark figure of 5 cm 6 cm 7 cm 8 cm. The answer that 8 cm is fine, is based on their professional observations. After all he would have done thousands of cases. Both of them MAINTAIN their position even after I paid money (when I was back for a check-up). They are very confident and said that my progress is very good (I was the first patient without any sign of knee contracture or loss of dorsiflexion).

Fifth,  by lengthening my tissues (from a few days back) at a slower pace of 0.75/0.5 I am confident my soft tissues will elongate properly. Skin can expand without any problem. Yes, so my worry is actually the tendons and muscles. Accoding to the surgeon, SCAR TISSUE DOES NOT BUILD UP if lengthen too fast. According to Dr Fahri, the Korean medicine Rizaben (anyone did in Korea?) Which I am taking currently, might help.

Sixth, I am totally not aware of where in the world the figures of 6 cm 7 cm come about. Even Dr Paley's website says 7.5 cm. And those figures? They are for the AVERAGE population, which does include guys in their 30s, 40s with lower growth hormones. They also include obese and totally not athletic person. As an athlete, I might be able to cope better with the elongation. I am also very flexible person as I used to practise yoga. I will practise yoga after the surgery.

Seventh, those who say that they have lost athletic abilities or whatever. Did they try plyometrics? (building up the muscle twitch fibres)(google that.) Also, did they try to intensively do PT after surgery? And also, how far are they from the post-op? It is a well known fact that at 2 years PO, you are still not 100%.

Eighth, there are people who believe, on this forum, that recovery (athletically) is possible 100%. I am not alone.

Ninth, I have just restarted on IGF-1 supplement, so that my tendons and muscle grow together. Growth hormone and IGF-1, as we know are intricately linked to the growth process. What I am worried about though is that high levels of IGF-1 may (through negative feedback loop) affect GH. That's in medical school and I forgot most of it. Gotta read up more.

Tenth, worse comes to worse, I am willing to give up basketball. I only play recreationally and at the national level, not internationally. There are guys who are 1.73, 1.75, 1.78 who play very well. They can dunk, have great vertical jumps and all that. But the reality? I am 25, I don't think I will play for much longer. I look younger than my age (age would be my plus point for this surgery), but I doubt I will play into my thirties. Height, would last me longer. I do not want to undergo another surgery (femur surgery, because if I do my femurs my arms would look too short, so I am squeezing 7-8 cms into tibia). I am also not so rich. (I'm a student! Not like you guys out there!)

[Wazzup]

I'm no expert on this matter, but just think for a second. Your tibias are suppose to be 80% the lenght of your femur. If you lenght that much you will have really long tibias, probably the same as you femurs. If you add boots or insoles to the couting it will be even worse.

I'm no expert but after 1 year in both forums I must say that the pros/cons ratio of going after large numbers isn't very appealing.

After having cases that peoplr wished they had lenghtned less than 7 do you still want 8?. 173+7 is already 180! No women will like you more because you are 1,82 instead of 1,80.

If i were you I wouldn't compromise long term health for 2 or 3cm. but either way, it's your call I'm just herr to support you and wishing you all the very best of life

[ItsMyLife]

 I think the figures, 6 cm and all , are for people of below average height. I am very close to the American average, and my tibia is in fact very average, at 36 cm.

Hence, which is why, I think Doctor Bagirov and Dr Fahri were very confident.

Based on some medical studies I read, 174 cm is at the upper limit of lengthening. Most people who lengthen are shorter than me. The shorter you are, the less you can lengthen, because of your inherent bone length and shorter soft tissues. The taller you are, the more you can lengthen.

So if someone is tall, ie 40 cm tibiae, maybe he can lengthen 9 cm with no problem. So I cam quite confident, that I can do 7 cm AT LEAST. I am abit uncertain about 8 cm, but I will do > 7 cm AND recover 100%. Also, I think height is not super super important. Someone can be 180 cms but have tibia that are average or short. So they canot lengthen as much.

How much did Sweden lengthen? and how long were his tibia? And don't forget he did under Dr Sarin (sounds like Sarin gas, a nerve gas).

[Wazzup]

He did 7cm. But IMO the question is not only if it will be done well or not. Is if it will look ok and the walkig flows normally.

At somr point I believe I read that a natural 1,78 that lenghtened his tibias regret lenghteninf that much because he felt like his tibias were too long not only compared to his femurs but also when comparre to other people taller than him.

You hqve a point vut the taller your starting point his and the more you lenght, even knowing your ratio will be lower in absolute measurents it will be much higher.

I guess it was in shyshy diary. I will check that in a moment.

[Wazzup]

As promised here it his he was between 176-178 and lenghtened 6cm tibias

Speaking from experience, I wish I did femurs myself, because like ShyShy said, you can hide the length with a t-shirt. With tibiae, the length is exposed every time you sit down or bend down, and there's not much you can do to conceal that length. I always dread having to bend down or kneel in front of a crowd now, and my strides are forced to keep pace with normal people. I'm afraid to look in a full length mirror, because I fear I look comical.

 I can never get over my fear when I sit down beside a guy who is like 6'3, and he's towering me in sitting height, his femurs are farther out than mine, but my knees are over an inch higher than his. I just feel stupid even though most people probably don't notice.

[programdude]

I met Poly. He looks great and other than subtle movements and the scarring, no one would ever know he did LL. You have to get really crazy with lengthening with a short starting height to look ridiculous IMO.

[Overdozer]

Long tibias look cool though. I like my other one with 7.5 lengthened on it. I'm one month post frame removal, and have no complications with it, just a slight ballerina. I'd say you're mainly limited by proportions. Unless you get severe ballerina before reaching your goal - then you should reconsider going further.

[Joel]

Looking at you in your videos I think you already have done to much why more?  you can't dunk or anything you are an idiot to do more.

[ItsMyLife]

Looking at you in your videos I think you already have done to much why more?  you can't dunk or anything you are an idiot to do more.

Why have I already done too much? It was only 1.8 cm in my video? Are u a troll?
I can dunk, so I hope I can still dunk after doing 7-8 cm.
If I can still dunk, this means you can recover 100%. but I don't expect anything much.... The reason why people do not post diaries or post their videos is because of such weird troll comments like this, which are not constructive or useful whatsoever. Lets make this forum a better and more conducive place for people to share constructive feedback and information.

[ItsMyLife]

Long tibias look cool though. I like my other one with 7.5 lengthened on it. I'm one month post frame removal, and have no complications with it, just a slight ballerina. I'd say you're mainly limited by proportions. Unless you get severe ballerina before reaching your goal - then you should reconsider going further.

In my opinion, I think 7-8 cms, yes I am limited by proportions ie, femur-tibia ratio. When I sit down now, I notice my tibia looks so long, compared to my femur. ie, when I am laying down on bed.... I imagine another 3-4 cm.. It is gonna get really long, which is why dr bagirov suggested another 4 cm at femur, but I am like, no, it will really affect me so much and I dnot wanna be crippled again..and all that pain...

I do not think my athletic abilities will be affected much, in all honesty. I believe I may not be able to dunk properly or move as agile as before, but maybe it is only 95-99%.

I have friends who get involved in OPEN FRACTURES, and can still jump pretty high even though they are about 175 cm. He used to be able to dunk before his motorbike accident. he's 25, so same age as me.

Do you realise your tibia look a bit too long? Will thicker calf muscles (yes my calf atrophied) make it look shorter??

[Taller]

The only people actually qualified to give you medical advice are doctors, not people on the Internet.  Follow your doctor's advice first. However, LL vets do carry a good degree of credibility too, I'd say. You should at least consider to what they have to say. But be aware that being credibilble and being qualificatied to answer medical questions accurately are two very different things.


Best of luck!!!

[KrP1]

those people that broken their legs and are now ducking didnt lengthen their legs.

[ItsMyLife]

So now its my doctor's advice versus some forummer's advice. I asked my doc just now. He operated on me. He saw my bones, tendons and muscles. He saw my MRI images. Perhaps there is some reason for him to say that he is confident i can do fine with 8 cm.

The message I wanna send out is: listen to your doctor, as the above post suggests. My doctor say don't listen to the internet people. This shows the amount of certainty he has that I will recover all or close to all of my athletic abilities.

Why some forummers say no, no, no, stop at 6 cm, stop at 7 cm stop at x cm, all these are just generic guidelines. THEY DO NOT handle your specific situation. Your specific anatomy, your bone length, etc, your recovery progress.

Someone pointed out RGKey. Well, first he did 9 cm, which is far from 8 cm. Second, he is still not far out enough from his operation date, we need more time to assess. Now, someone mentions goodfootballer on the old forum; well he himself says he is doing fine except for some pains which is OK with panadol. Third, he mentions Sweden. Isn't sweden a bad example since doctor sarin was such a buttcher as this forum paints him to be??

And then he mentions about internals having a max limit of  6 cm. Is there any verification for this? Furthermore, internal nails go into your bone marrow, and so there might be safety reasons (embolism due to increased pressure etc) that is UNIQUE to internals.

What I am saying is that, two doctors who are well-known in Russia, in the capital city of Moscow, are very certain that 8 cm is fine, so I see no reason to deviate such a large amount from it. Yes, the people who commmented on the internet have helped me; they have made me realse that, hey, maybe 8 cm is not such a good idea?

And I do wanna thank them of course, cos' I've scaled down my target to around 7.5 cm. And of course, in doing so, I will have a faster recovery and go back to sports faster. Its okay, that 0.5 cm. Because of the forum's warning, which I am thankful for but I think is paranoid, I will NOT exceed 8 cm even with pin bending and all included. In my Excel spreadsheet I will NOT exceed 8 cm AT ALL. Which means, my final bone length may well be 7.5 or 7 cm.

Whatever it is, on the old forum, I have read that as you stretch and lengthen your ligaments when the bones lengthen, they get stronger, and there are more muscle twitch fibres (= jump higher). And also there are SOME accounts of hypertrophy of calf muscles after surgery (due to the bone growth). Yes, all this I know is possible. I am a medical student. When you have bones cut off, muscle will atrophy naturally. When more bone grows, it makes sense for there to be MORE muscle than before.

Thanks for the comments. No, I do not take LL veterans comments with a pinch of salt. They hold some weight, but I would think my doctor's solid and firm advice holds more weight. They know my medical condition. They saw my MRIs. They saw my anatomy. And they have no reason to lie, I mean. I did not INSIST on 8 CM. Repeatedly,, I was very very OPEN to reducing it to 7 cm. I was open to that idea. Totally. And they just said, do 8 CM its fine, no worries. They know I play basketball competitively. They know if this fails they will get a bad reputation. They put everything at stakes. This shows that, the difference, between 7-8 CM, is really over-exaagerated.

I wanna caution. I am NOT saying that 8 CM is fine for everyone. But it might well be fine for my case at least.

Here's my conversation today with my surgeon dr fahri, he's very kind and really wants your best interest at heart, so I think no need for him to lie:


Why the Internet, people say I should stop at 6 cm?
it is so dangerous to 7-8 cm? Professor says it's okay, even for sports.
I'm doing very well now. no equinus. no knee contracture.
I think that the limit of 6 cm, for people who have shorter bones? my shin length very average
Of course, I trust you and Professor, more than people online. they are not medically trained.

Fahri:
Hello, XXXXX!
If the patient is willing and ready to lengthen the legs 8 cm., But nothing is wrong there!
Do not pay attention to people, if you can turn the 8 cm

[ReadRothbard]

Listen to what the professors or docs say; they have the training--not us.

[Taller]

Listen to what the professors or docs say; they have the training--not us.

Couldn't agree more myself. There are so many self proclaimed "experts" on here.

[ReadRothbard]

Couldn't agree more myself. There are so many self proclaimed "experts" on here.

I know, right? That's why I like quoting people like Dr. Paley; if anyone knows what they are talking about, it's people like him.

[ItsMyLife]

I know, right? That's why I like quoting people like Dr. Paley; if anyone knows what they are talking about, it's people like him.

Well, the "specialists" are board-certified in orthopedic surgery (which involve almost 10 years of med school) and have a PhD in Nutrition and also Psychology. Performed thousands of surgeries like Dr Bagirov and Dr Paley. 'That's the great credentials of our esteemed experts.

If I recall, Paley said 7.5 (am I wrong?)

[jfk]

Hey Itsmylife,

let me tell you some things that I thought for some time but did not share until now. Maybe some other members think the same…
I don’t get the point of you trying to sell to the community that you will go to 8 cm. It is like you try to justify yourself why it is a good idea to go to 8 cm.

There is even a vote in your diary of how much you should lengthen. You ask all the members on the forum and the answer is clear: 42.6 % tell you to lengthen between 5 and 6 cm. Then you start a thread why you will lengthen up to 7 or 8 anyway.
From what I see you are very young and immature. You ask all the members on the forum how much you should lengthen and then ask the doctors and make up a doctors vs. forum members thing. That reminds me of me when I was a kid. Everything had to be a race. Who is eating ice-cream faster or who has better toys. That’s just childish behavior. You act like 8 cm is your favourite toy and the evil neighbor (forum members) try to take that away from you and you beg your mum and dad (doctors) to give it back to you. You ask for the opinion of the forum and when you don’t hear what you like you go like: Doctors know better anyway! So why do you ask the forum in the first place?

The next childish thing is you look for proof for you to be able to go to 8 cm and take everything that fits in your opinion and leave everything else out. Let me tell you what adults do: They see both sides and make a pro and contra list. You do a pro list. Great. The result is clear beforehand. Pro will win.

Well let me see your list why 8 is super-great: “russian people” say Dr. Bagirov is the best. What Russian people? Housewifes and electricians? Opinion of forum members are not right but the opinion of some “Russian people”. You grasp what you can to prove your point.

“the danger starts at 8+”. Are you joking??? There are a lot of diaries on this forum which show that there are a lot dangers way before 8 cm. Many people like KiloKhan had to stop before reaching 8 because it was getting way to dangerous. I myself had to stop at 7 cm because of knee bending, foot inversion and ballerina foot. Let me tell some news: The danger starts with the operation!
Then a Singapore orthopedic surgeon (wtf???) says the only problem is a “common perenoal nerve”. Are you kidding me? Me and many other patients can tell you that that is not the ONLY problem when going to 8 cm!!!
Chinese doctors say 20 % is the max you say. You go for 22 %. That’s not in the range. But well lets bend the numbers to make it fit…
Next: Your doctor says 8 is fine. Now try to use your brain: Who will know what will happen to you from 3 cm now to 8 cm. We are talking about 5 cm in between. If you are honest you will say no one. How can your doctor say 8 is fine??? You are at about 3 cm. Do you know what these beautiful words from your doctor are worth when you get a bone infection tomorrow? NOTHING. People waking up in the morning and having bad ballerina foot suddenly. Already happened. Use your brain. No one can tell you if 8 cm is fine for you. Go step by step. Go for 4 and see how you are doing. Then for 5. Then 6. And if you are fine go for the whole 8 cm. Do you know the answer when I asked my doctor in the beginning if I can go to 8? He said “Its possible. But difficult”. That is the ONLY right answer. But on a pro list “8 cm is fine” sounds better I know.

Well your list goes on like this. Later even the opinion of forum members are good enough to make it on your list: “Eighth, there are people who believe, on this forum, that recovery (athletically) is possible 100%. I am not alone.”
And you go one with questionable statements: “If I can still dunk, this means you can recover 100%”. What the fk are talking about??? If you can still dunk that means you recovered well. Not more not less. If you want to know if someone recovered 100 % you have to let them make a standard health test, which tests the person before LL in agility, speed, strength and other criteria. Then you have to the exact same test afterwards. You can not just let them dunk!!! A lot of statements are full of that crap. “Open fracture” and LL comparison is the next post.Wtf???

Itsmylife, I don’t think you are a stupid guy. You just need to change your attitude. Stop becoming Leechlet 2, who was so fking immature but thought he is the greatest guy ever born. Stop playing your little doctors vs. forum and numbers game. Don’t make easy statements. Go step by step. Focus on the present. The next centimeter is always the most important. Hope you will be fine and get to 8 cm safely. I hope I was not too harsh on you.

[ReadRothbard]

He said that 8 cm is usually the max on the femurs.

[ItsMyLife]

Hey Itsmylife,

let me tell you some things that I thought for some time but did not share until now. Maybe some other members think the same…
I don’t get the point of you trying to sell to the community that you will go to 8 cm. It is like you try to justify yourself why it is a good idea to go to 8 cm.

There is even a vote in your diary of how much you should lengthen. You ask all the members on the forum and the answer is clear: 42.6 % tell you to lengthen between 5 and 6 cm. Then you start a thread why you will lengthen up to 7 or 8 anyway.
From what I see you are very young and immature. You ask all the members on the forum how much you should lengthen and then ask the doctors and make up a doctors vs. forum members thing. That reminds me of me when I was a kid. Everything had to be a race. Who is eating ice-cream faster or who has better toys. That’s just childish behavior. You act like 8 cm is your favourite toy and the evil neighbor (forum members) try to take that away from you and you beg your mum and dad (doctors) to give it back to you. You ask for the opinion of the forum and when you don’t hear what you like you go like: Doctors know better anyway! So why do you ask the forum in the first place?

The next childish thing is you look for proof for you to be able to go to 8 cm and take everything that fits in your opinion and leave everything else out. Let me tell you what adults do: They see both sides and make a pro and contra list. You do a pro list. Great. The result is clear beforehand. Pro will win.

Well let me see your list why 8 is super-great: “russian people” say Dr. Bagirov is the best. What Russian people? Housewifes and electricians? Opinion of forum members are not right but the opinion of some “Russian people”. You grasp what you can to prove your point.

“the danger starts at 8+”. Are you joking??? There are a lot of diaries on this forum which show that there are a lot dangers way before 8 cm. Many people like KiloKhan had to stop before reaching 8 because it was getting way to dangerous. I myself had to stop at 7 cm because of knee bending, foot inversion and ballerina foot. Let me tell some news: The danger starts with the operation!
Then a Singapore orthopedic surgeon (wtf???) says the only problem is a “common perenoal nerve”. Are you kidding me? Me and many other patients can tell you that that is not the ONLY problem when going to 8 cm!!!
Chinese doctors say 20 % is the max you say. You go for 22 %. That’s not in the range. But well lets bend the numbers to make it fit…
Next: Your doctor says 8 is fine. Now try to use your brain: Who will know what will happen to you from 3 cm now to 8 cm. We are talking about 5 cm in between. If you are honest you will say no one. How can your doctor say 8 is fine??? You are at about 3 cm. Do you know what these beautiful words from your doctor are worth when you get a bone infection tomorrow? NOTHING. People waking up in the morning and having bad ballerina foot suddenly. Already happened. Use your brain. No one can tell you if 8 cm is fine for you. Go step by step. Go for 4 and see how you are doing. Then for 5. Then 6. And if you are fine go for the whole 8 cm. Do you know the answer when I asked my doctor in the beginning if I can go to 8? He said “Its possible. But difficult”. That is the ONLY right answer. But on a pro list “8 cm is fine” sounds better I know.

Well your list goes on like this. Later even the opinion of forum members are good enough to make it on your list: “Eighth, there are people who believe, on this forum, that recovery (athletically) is possible 100%. I am not alone.”
And you go one with questionable statements: “If I can still dunk, this means you can recover 100%”. What the fk are talking about??? If you can still dunk that means you recovered well. Not more not less. If you want to know if someone recovered 100 % you have to let them make a standard health test, which tests the person before LL in agility, speed, strength and other criteria. Then you have to the exact same test afterwards. You can not just let them dunk!!! A lot of statements are full of that crap. “Open fracture” and LL comparison is the next post.Wtf???

Itsmylife, I don’t think you are a stupid guy. You just need to change your attitude. Stop becoming Leechlet 2, who was so fking immature but thought he is the greatest guy ever born. Stop playing your little doctors vs. forum and numbers game. Don’t make easy statements. Go step by step. Focus on the present. The next centimeter is always the most important. Hope you will be fine and get to 8 cm safely. I hope I was not too harsh on you.

Maybe you misunderstood me. let me make some points:

1. I asked my docs first. I was surprised this forum thinks otherwsise. My doc did not say, sure you can reach 8 cm. My doc was very stern with me he said I could reach 8 cm without losing my athletic ability but i MUST BE PREPARED for some hard work and pains. I must do the physical therapy and exercises he taught me. I must follow his instructions. I don't know which doctor or person will guarantee that you CAN REACH 8 CM, because some soft tissue issues MIGHT at some point force you to stop lengthening.

2. I have already said I will revise downwards. EVEN IF my doctors are more qualified and see my physical condition much more than forum members actually did, the fact that many members are pretty conservative and paranoid means something.  Hence I am always ready to lengthen to the lower limit of 7 cm.

3. As i started a thread on pain, I noted that pain is probably our body telling us to stop. I've always believed (if you can see in my posts), that, if your body responds in weird and harsh ways, if all indicators tell you that your soft tissue stretch is at its maximum, YOU SHOULD STOP. I am NOT saying that I WILL reach 8 cm or whatsoever. i said I will still GO FORWARD with 7-8 CMS, IF I DO NOT encounter significant complications. Only God knows if I can ACTUALLY reach 8 CM. At no point in time, do I say with 100% certainty I WILL REACH 8 CM. In fact I am more uncertain now, as I wake up every morning with knee contractures and have to stretch it out for a minute.

4. I will seek a second opinion from my Singapore orthopedic surgeon. I will ask him in greater detail; the previous visit was focused on infection and pain control. Now that there is no infection and little pain (managed with Painkillers), I will ask him the real questions.

5. If I can barely dunk before surgery, and I can still dunk 2 years post-op ,that means that I have retained my vertical jump. And verticaljump requires complicated coordinations of all the muscle groups and tendons (including Archillees) . It is possible that with a stretched out tendon you might jump higher but I am not sure I can believe that at all. I will just have to see for myself. But I do admit, there are other indicators, like endurance (running for a long time), and agility  (muscle reaction times)

I DO NOT think it was correct for me to say I am chlidish or whatsoever. I am LAYING DOWN ONE SIDE of the argument. I am always willing to LISTEN to the OTHER SIDE but I NEED THE EVIDENCE or the substantiation, especially if they are not qualified in orthopedic surgery.

As a final point, EVEN IF you develop knee contracture or equinus, as MDOW has already pointed out, all this can resolve after you stop lengthening. I will only stop if these complications prevent me from walkng as I am currently working part-time, and would really love that money It's a pretty high paying job

[ItsMyLife]

Long tibias look cool though. I like my other one with 7.5 lengthened on it. I'm one month post frame removal, and have no complications with it, just a slight ballerina. I'd say you're mainly limited by proportions. Unless you get severe ballerina before reaching your goal - then you should reconsider going further.

I think, I am constrained by proportions.
Ballerina all these,can be sorted out thru PT and stretching. And lengthening slower at 0.5
UNLESS your soft tissue anaatomy is such that you cannot go further anymore.

[tx1111]

Itsmylife

You shoukd consider listening to jfk. He was pretty harsh but sometimes thats what you need to snap out of it.

I say this because I am planning on doing this surgery and as I was following this post and all your arguments(which were pretty good by the way), I was thinking to myself"itsmylife makes some good arguments so it should be ok".

I was doing the same thing jfk said you were doing which is  nitpicking the arguments that favor the outcome I desire.

Your right about listening to your doctor since he has experience kn the subject. But keep in mind there is are many reasons why  this forum exists. One of those reasons is because LL doctors have messed up or acted unproffesionally.

I know you value the experience and knowledge this forum offers otherwise you wouldnt be here. Dont disregard the diaries that have ended abruptly or the ones that have stated complications.

jfk's advice of taking jt a cm at a time has no downsides to it.

That being said,i myself want 7cm but will not go less than 6 cm. Hkwever that is my thinking right now. When I do the procedure I hope I have the strict dicipline to look at the situation for what it is and what are the probabable out comes without my desires clouding rational thinking.

[ItsMyLife]

I'm no expert on this matter, but just think for a second. Your tibias are suppose to be 80% the lenght of your femur. If you lenght that much you will have really long tibias, probably the same as you femurs. If you add boots or insoles to the couting it will be even worse.

I'm no expert but after 1 year in both forums I must say that the pros/cons ratio of going after large numbers isn't very appealing.

After having cases that peoplr wished they had lenghtned less than 7 do you still want 8?. 173+7 is already 180! No women will like you more because you are 1,82 instead of 1,80.

If i were you I wouldn't compromise long term health for 2 or 3cm. but either way, it's your call I'm just herr to support you and wishing you all the very best of life

Which Is why I am always keeping my option open to stop at 180 cm
2 cm is not much of a difference, its like 176 vs 178.

[ItsMyLife]

Itsmylife

You shoukd consider listening to jfk. He was pretty harsh but sometimes thats what you need to snap out of it.

I say this because I am planning on doing this surgery and as I was following this post and all your arguments(which were pretty good by the way), I was thinking to myself"itsmylife makes some good arguments so it should be ok".

I was doing the same thing jfk said you were doing which is  nitpicking the arguments that favor the outcome I desire.

Your right about listening to your doctor since he has experience kn the subject. But keep in mind there is are many reasons why  this forum exists. One of those reasons is because LL doctors have messed up or acted unproffesionally.

I know you value the experience and knowledge this forum offers otherwise you wouldnt be here. Dont disregard the diaries that have ended abruptly or the ones that have stated complications.

jfk's advice of taking jt a cm at a time has no downsides to it.

That being said,i myself want 7cm but will not go less than 6 cm. Hkwever that is my thinking right now. When I do the procedure I hope I have the strict dicipline to look at the situation for what it is and what are the probabable out comes without my desires clouding rational thinking.

At this point of time the best advice I can give is to listen to your body and know when to stop.
Targets, 8 cm , and whatever are not set in stone. They are (sometimes) bound to change in the event of a supervening event that you cannot solve.
I am just stating my target, it does not mean that I will defnitely reach it, or that I will do  8 cm at all costs (ie, with hardcore painkillers and sedation).
Yes I have hardcore sedatives that I can inject, but I will listen to my body, I will push my limits abit even if i encounter problems, but I will know when to stop. Pharmaceuticals mask pain and relax muscles, but, you are doing deep dis-service to your body in doing so and God knows how it will heal after that.
I think Diaries stop abruptly becaues I have realised that this forum (and some members) post really cynical and disturbing posts. I mean,come on, you're healing; do you wanna listen to all those negative people? That is why I am stopping my diary probably.

[Uppland]

Mate are you trying to convince us -or yourself?

The reason I'm always so conservative in these discussions is because I would rather do too little than too much- However if both doctors you've talked to say it's fine to lengthen 8CM then maybe it is.

Personally I wouldn't but obviously it's up to you. Just ask yourself if it's worth the risk.

[ItsMyLife]

Mate are you trying to convince us -or yourself?

The reason I'm always so conservative in these discussions is because I would rather do too little than too much- However if both doctors you've talked to say it's fine to lengthen 8CM then maybe it is.

Personally I wouldn't but obviously it's up to you. Just ask yourself if it's worth the risk.

I am trying to get a better understanding, based on substantiated evidence that 7-8 CM is too much. I dont know where the magic numbers come from, simply.

I am simply questioning the logic of the "magic numbers". How arbitrary is it? Where does it come from? Why? I am not trying to convince anyone or myself. I have already convinced myself that 7-8 CM should be fine, so I wanna know and be convinced that it is not fine, and obviously I haven't seen enough evidence to change my conclusion.

Based on that, I can change my conclusion perhaps. Right now, I will do 7-8 cm if my body allows me to.

Some people are more bullish some more conservative. But I agree with you, it is all about risks. Sure, maybe 80% chance I can do 7-8 cm, but 20% is that I will run into issues. Its all about statistics and percentages. No absolutes.

[ReadRothbard]

Exactly--many people don't seem to realize that the lengthening "limits" are individual.

[ItsMyLife]

Exactly--many people don't seem to realize that the lengthening "limits" are individual.

yup..

[endomorphisme]

Exactly--many people don't seem to realize that the lengthening "limits" are individual.

and how are just supposed to know them?
Because you think you're an "alpha" and better than everyone else?
In that case, i'm going to push to 2 meter

[123]

Well have fun wearing frames for over a year then...

[ItsMyLife]

and how are just supposed to know them?
Because you think you're an "alpha" and better than everyone else?
In that case, i'm going to push to 2 meter

when the pain and soft tissue limitations become apparent and cannot resolve easily even with pharmaceuticals. then it is time to decide. to stop.